Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

[DeTess]

Speaking of Applin's evolutions, does anyone know if Flapple is worth anything? I caught one on Route 5, but I already have a Pumpkaboo for my Grass Type. Would it be worth switching them out and putting Applin in my party, knowing it can't do anything but Withdraw and Astonish until it evolves, or would I be better off just sticking with Pumpkaboo?

The rest of the team is Drizzile, Yamper, Corvisquire, Swinub, and Galarian Farfetch'd.

I used flapple in my run. They're fairly classic glass cannon, hitting really hard but they can't take that many hits. They get a unique and fairly hard-hitting grass move, as well as stuff like acrobatics and dragon rush.

[Epimetheus]

I used flapple in my run. They're fairly classic glass cannon, hitting really hard but they can't take that many hits. They get a unique and fairly hard-hitting grass move, as well as stuff like acrobatics and dragon rush.

That's about what I was expecting, thanks! I'll probably end up sticking with Pumpkaboo, since I've gotten sort of attached to her by now. Maybe in another playthrough I'll give Applin a chance.

[Seerow]

Slowly filling in the edges of my pokedex. I was getting sent to routes with 4-5 pokemon I had missed, now it's generally sending me places where there's just one that I need. I have noticed sometimes there's rare encounters for pokemon I just never saw, even in trainer battles (Togepi was one of these), so I've taken to consulting Serebii each time I hit a new route to double check if there's anything there to keep hunting for besides what I originally went for.

Spoiler: Minor postgame spoilers, but better safe than sorry

Show

Thus far I haven't even bothered to go catching my legendary doggo yet. I know I just have to head back to the Weald, but exploring everything else seems more fun for now.

Other than that though I'm not sure what there is to do postgame? I know there's gym leader rebattles... but can you redo the pokemon tournament like you could redo elite 4 in other games or does it switch to just battle tower now that you're the champion? I guess at some point in the next day or two I should just head up there and try. [Edit: Just looked it up, you can rechallenge. But for some reason despite being champion you have to fight your way through the tournament bracket. I seem to remember Leon just hanging out and watching while the rest of us duked it out. This is a more traditional E4 replay experience, but I'm not sure how I feel about that inconsistency]

As far as I can tell there's basically no postgame story or extra areas to explore. They really wanted to focus hard on the Wild Area, which while cool I kind of wish there was at least a new section of the wild area that unlocked postgame. All wild area pokemon scaling up to 60 also just reinforces my "This game's levels makes no sense at all" feeling from earlier.

That aside... pokejobs. They're not exactly entertaining gameplay, but they're actually quite useful? I just did one where I sent out 30 pokemon, the job had no restrictions, a day later they came back, every one of them gained 50,000 experience and I got 5 nuggets. That's... really quite good and helps a lot if you're wanting to grind a bunch of lower pokemon up for whatever reason. Leveling any individual pokemon will go way faster, but 1.5mil experience is a solid couple days of grinding, and getting that for a few seconds of clicking around my boxes and deciding who to send is nice. Being able to use them for EV training as well I foresee being useful if/when I get around to building a real team.


Last thing: Did anyone figure out how Obstagoon's evolution works? Serebii says level up to 35 at night and it'll evolve. I was playing around midnight and leveled from 35-45 with no evolution in sight. Some googling led me to news articles that implied it needs to fight a lot, and may take as late as level 55, but no specific mechanics were there. Like will it only evolve if EVs are maxed? Is there some internal counter for how many foes linoone knocks out? Does it require multiple knock outs in the same battle? At this rate I feel like I'm going to need to luck into finding one in a max raid battle.

[LaZodiac]

Slowly filling in the edges of my pokedex. I was getting sent to routes with 4-5 pokemon I had missed, now it's generally sending me places where there's just one that I need. I have noticed sometimes there's rare encounters for pokemon I just never saw, even in trainer battles (Togepi was one of these), so I've taken to consulting Serebii each time I hit a new route to double check if there's anything there to keep hunting for besides what I originally went for.

Spoiler: Minor postgame spoilers, but better safe than sorry

Show

Thus far I haven't even bothered to go catching my legendary doggo yet. I know I just have to head back to the Weald, but exploring everything else seems more fun for now.

Other than that though I'm not sure what there is to do postgame? I know there's gym leader rebattles... but can you redo the pokemon tournament like you could redo elite 4 in other games or does it switch to just battle tower now that you're the champion? I guess at some point in the next day or two I should just head up there and try. [Edit: Just looked it up, you can rechallenge. But for some reason despite being champion you have to fight your way through the tournament bracket. I seem to remember Leon just hanging out and watching while the rest of us duked it out. This is a more traditional E4 replay experience, but I'm not sure how I feel about that inconsistency]

As far as I can tell there's basically no postgame story or extra areas to explore. They really wanted to focus hard on the Wild Area, which while cool I kind of wish there was at least a new section of the wild area that unlocked postgame. All wild area pokemon scaling up to 60 also just reinforces my "This game's levels makes no sense at all" feeling from earlier.

That aside... pokejobs. They're not exactly entertaining gameplay, but they're actually quite useful? I just did one where I sent out 30 pokemon, the job had no restrictions, a day later they came back, every one of them gained 50,000 experience and I got 5 nuggets. That's... really quite good and helps a lot if you're wanting to grind a bunch of lower pokemon up for whatever reason. Leveling any individual pokemon will go way faster, but 1.5mil experience is a solid couple days of grinding, and getting that for a few seconds of clicking around my boxes and deciding who to send is nice. Being able to use them for EV training as well I foresee being useful if/when I get around to building a real team.


Last thing: Did anyone figure out how Obstagoon's evolution works? Serebii says level up to 35 at night and it'll evolve. I was playing around midnight and leveled from 35-45 with no evolution in sight. Some googling led me to news articles that implied it needs to fight a lot, and may take as late as level 55, but no specific mechanics were there. Like will it only evolve if EVs are maxed? Is there some internal counter for how many foes linoone knocks out? Does it require multiple knock outs in the same battle? At this rate I feel like I'm going to need to luck into finding one in a max raid battle.

Spoiler

Show

Go to the Weald if you want to experience post game content. It's not as simple as just going there and catching your puppo.

[Emmerlaus]

I used flapple in my run. They're fairly classic glass cannon, hitting really hard but they can't take that many hits. They get a unique and fairly hard-hitting grass move, as well as stuff like acrobatics and dragon rush.

It kinda ruin my idea a bit... Def and Sp. Def of Appletun only at 80 so its not that tanky... But I can deal with that...

Appletun
Nature: Sassy (+ SpD, - Spe)
Ability: Rippen
Item: Enigma Berry

Moveset:

Gigadrain
Sucker-Punch
Recycle
Gyro-Ball

Its supposed to be a big hitter in a Trick Room team.

[Spore]

And here I am just its a switch game.

[deuterio12]

Not just any Switch game.

Pokémon Sword/Shield's the fastest Switch selling game to date.

[Bartmanhomer]

Not just any Switch game.

Pokémon Sword/Shield's the fastest Switch selling game to date.

I'm surprised that these games are selling quick. I thought that the games will flop.

[Turalisj]

I think a lot of people were betting on the game flopping. I've been playing all week and having a blast.

[Bartmanhomer]

I can't wait for the Pokemon Sword And Shield Tier List. Is it out yet?

[huttj509]

I think a lot of people were betting on the game flopping. I've been playing all week and having a blast.

Agreed. I went into it with the expectation of "It's a pokemon game" and that's what I got.

Also you can pry my "most bug types I've ever had in my team at once without even trying" from my cold fainted hands. Fire/Bug, Ice/Bug, Psychic/Bug, I choose you!

Also, snapping turtle with effective STAB on biting moves.

Then there's Obstagoon who, man, I wish I had some insight on what was needed to evolve him, sorry, the "level up at night past 35" worked for me first try. Maybe be in the Wild Area so day/night follows your local day/night, rather than plot day/night (which I think is silly)?

Then I have my Dragon/Ghost.

[Lord Raziere]

Agreed. I went into it with the expectation of "It's a pokemon game" and that's what I got.

Well thats the argument everyone makes for it now:

Spoiler

Show

as if wanting something better is disloyal and negative. pure nonsense.

[deuterio12]

I think a lot of people were betting on the game flopping. I've been playing all week and having a blast.

You and millions of other people. Some haters still around, but they're being drowned now that the game's actually out so the fans are enjoying it big time, which at the end of the day's what's really matters for a game. I applaud Gamefreak for going for all the quality of life improvements and smoothing the game instead of just trying to crudely cram just bigger collecthathons/prerendered 40k hyper HD 9001 fps cutscenes.

I can't wait for the Pokemon Sword And Shield Tier List. Is it out yet?

Eeerrr, it'll take more than a week to properly check the new options.

[Bartmanhomer]

Eeerrr, it'll take more than a week to properly check the new options.

I hope Magikarp is an Uber Pokemon because Magikarp is my favourite Pokemon. But seriously Magikarp is really my favourite Pokemon.

[LaZodiac]

Well thats the argument everyone makes for it now:

as if wanting something better is disloyal and negative. pure nonsense.

No one sensible is saying that.

[Lord Raziere]

You and millions of other people. Some haters still around, but they're being drowned now that the game's actually out so the fans are enjoying it big time, which at the end of the day's what's really matters for a game. I applaud Gamefreak for going for all the quality of life improvements and smoothing the game instead of just trying to crudely cram just bigger collecthathons/prerendered 40k hyper HD 9001 fps cutscenes.

{Scrubbed}

the game is full of cutscenes, the lets plays basically reveal it to be Sun and Moon 3, Galarian Hau is somehow even more annoying than his native alolan variant, the plot is just the gym leaders without any of the actual b plots of previous series that made things interesting, so even less to do, they basically give you tons of rare candy for raiding, to the point where its like what is even the point of levels anymore? they made it so easy to catch up and overlevel and get great moves early, you might as well not have levels at all. and people thought they made X and Y too easy! this is just "Pokemon Steroids" now. this is story that the dex got cut for: going around fighting easily defeated gym leaders while Capes Mcstickers and Science Waifu do all the big hero stuff you used to do, without you. the closest thing to enemies you get are the Team Skull knockoffs no one likes, not even their own idol. all the while you stop time whenever you go up a ladder, real immersive.
and at the end of each ladder and around every corner, there is a heal point, just everywhere, because why bother trekking into the wilderness and stocking up on supplies for the journey when there is random healers everywhere to make sure you never have to face any failure whatsoever? thats how it'd work in reality right?

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if they just change all the pokeballs to master balls next game so that you never have to worry about catch times, because why spend time on working to catch the pokemon? after we clearly don't like working to level up, why work to actually catch them? they've already made leveling meaningless, they've made any plot but gym leaders meaningless or working to learn high level moves, they'll make everything else meaningless too. and people easily guess who is going to be the villain of these anyways no matter how "hidden" they are, so I guess thats meaningless to.

so, unlikeable stupid characters, boring plot, less pokemon, overlevel steroids paired with level cap restrictions that don't preserve any challenge, pointless gym challenges with gym leaders that get sweeped easily as usual, on top of really short draw distance, giant pokemon being a stupid gimmick, its clearly a pokemon game- in the worst way. saying that it is indeed a pokemon game, is not a compliment. because what pokemon game stopped being was something constant and now has become something less than what it was in Sun/Moon. putting nothing but walls up against some fun for other kinds.

they did nothing but ruin a good thing, with nothing to offer to fix it. they don't care, and your turn will come when you realize it to, when they inevitably randomly take out features you like from this one for the sake of some other gimmick or nonsense not for any logical reason but because they can, just like they always have. and its not as if I can escape it, every streamer, youtuber and their mother is doing a playthrough of it, so its everywhere and I'm just flooded with its existence.

No one sensible is saying that.

and what do you define as sensible? is there any room for negativity or criticism within this definition? any accounting for the emotional hurt this has caused? any accounting for things other than sales numbers? any accounting for viewpoints other than "well I just like pokemon generically and don't care about what people are mad at"?

I've gotten nothing but people outright denying anything wrong with any of this and refusing to acknowledge any of the problems I have with this as problems, right in this very thread. if they won't acknowledge things as problems that I'm the most critical about, what sensibility is there for any of us, if there is no common ground? is this truly sensibility, if all but one viewpoint is rejected? I don't think so. so, what do you define. as sensible?

[deuterio12]

your just acting like this discussion is a game itself and you just "won" when we had legitimate complaints and concerns about where the direction of pokemon was heading and that silence is somehow victory. reality check: this is not a freaking game, hiding behind blind loyalty and big sales numbers is not a win for you or anyone, and selling well means nothing.

Pokémon Sword/Shield is literally a game, simple as that.

you just want to keep up the false positivity to reassure yourself that you made the "right" decision. so you don't have to acknowledge there is any other option other than consume product mindlessly or not be a pokemon fan. continue ignoring reality all you want, its all just a variation of "Its not the best choice, its trainers choice" at the end of the day, because somehow remaining loyal to something that gives you less for more money is better than actually pointing out the flaws.

I never said the game was perfect (no game is), but you're just focusing too much in the flaws while completely ignoring the improvements.

the game is full of cutscenes, the lets plays basically reveal it to be Sun and Moon 3, Galarian Hau is somehow even more annoying than his native alolan variant, the plot is just the gym leaders without any of the actual b plots of previous series that made things interesting, so even less to do, they basically give you tons of rare candy for raiding, to the point where its like what is even the point of levels anymore? they made it so easy to catch up and overlevel and get great moves early, you might as well not have levels at all. and people thought they made X and Y too easy! this is just "Pokemon Steroids" now. this is story that the dex got cut for: going around fighting easily defeated gym leaders while Capes Mcstickers and Science Waifu do all the big hero stuff you used to do, without you. the closest thing to enemies you get are the Team Skull knockoffs no one likes, not even their own idol. all the while you stop time whenever you go up a ladder, real immersive.
and at the end of each ladder and around every corner, there is a heal point, just everywhere, because why bother trekking into the wilderness and stocking up on supplies for the journey when there is random healers everywhere to make sure you never have to face any failure whatsoever? thats how it'd work in reality right?

Case in point, no, it isn't real, but then the main point of a game is to provide fun, not realism. And easy healing out of combat is just how most other modern RPG has been doing it because it turns out it's more fun than carefully managing healing supplies. Xenoblade Chronicles has the party quickly heal to full after each battle and there's no healing consumables whatsoever. Breath of the Wild and Skyrim have plenty of food everywhere and little limit on how much you can carry. Even Call of Duty and other FPS have been adding regenerating health for many years now.

So yes, easy plentyful healing outside of combat is more fun than carefully managing supplies for most players out there. There's nothing wrong with Pokémon doing it too. It's actually an improvement that Pokémon's doing it.

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if they just change all the pokeballs to master balls next game so that you never have to worry about catch times, because why spend time on working to catch the pokemon? after we clearly don't like working to level up, why work to actually catch them? they've already made leveling meaningless, they've made any plot but gym leaders meaningless or working to learn high level moves, they'll make everything else meaningless too. and people easily guess who is going to be the villain of these anyways no matter how "hidden" they are, so I guess thats meaningless to.

so, unlikeable stupid characters, boring plot, less pokemon, overlevel steroids paired with level cap restrictions that don't preserve any challenge, pointless gym challenges with gym leaders that get sweeped easily as usual, on top of really short draw distance, giant pokemon being a stupid gimmick, its clearly a pokemon game- in the worst way. saying that it is indeed a pokemon game, is not a compliment. because what pokemon game stopped being was something constant and now has become something less than what it was in Sun/Moon. putting nothing but walls up against some fun for other kinds.

Not needing to spend hours carefully grinding to get good IVs is an improvement over the old methods, making competitive MP more easily acessible for everybody.

And if you were expecting some epic plot saga, then you're just looking at the wrong franchise. That would be like asking for the trainers to be able to equip guns and just shoot the other trainers in the face in real time. Then it wouldn't be Pokémon, it would just be another shooting game.

they did nothing but ruin a good thing, with nothing to offer to fix it. they don't care, and your turn will come when you realize it to, when they inevitably randomly take out features you like from this one for the sake of some other gimmick or nonsense not for any logical reason but because they can, just like they always have. and its not as if I can escape it, every streamer, youtuber and their mother is doing a playthrough of it, so its everywhere and I'm just flooded with its existence.

You're really trying to convince me that you've run out of gaming non-Sword/Shield content on the internet and that you have absolutely no other games to play to entertain you? I find that somewhat implausible. In particular when you kept repeating how every other franchise in the world does everything better than Pokémon. Why aren't you watching/playing those clearly superior games then?

And your theory is that all those people, all those streamers and youtubers and their mothers playing Sword/Shield, they're are all just doing "false positivity"?

Really? Are Gamefreaks such masters of manipulation that they can make the internet itself filled with people having fun with their games whitout the games being actually fun?

and what do you define as sensible? is there any room for negativity or criticism within this definition? any accounting for the emotional hurt this has caused? any accounting for things other than sales numbers? any accounting for viewpoints other than "well I just like pokemon generically and don't care about what people are mad at"?

I've gotten nothing but people outright denying anything wrong with any of this and refusing to acknowledge any of the problems I have with this as problems, right in this very thread. if they won't acknowledge things as problems that I'm the most critical about, what sensibility is there for any of us, if there is no common ground? is this truly sensibility, if all but one viewpoint is rejected? I don't think so. so, what do you define. as sensible?

For starters, it's not sensible at all to claim things like a new Pokémon making entry for competitive MP more accessible or easier out-of-combat healing count as flaws for most people out there. Those are improvements for most players out there, just like being able to access the PC while out there. They make the game a smoother, better experience for most players.

Neither is it sensible that a game is selling well and streamers/youtubers doing playthroughs and somehow reaching the conclusion that every last of them are "blind fans" doing "false positivitiy".

[Razade]

Well thats the argument everyone makes for it now:

Spoiler

Show

as if wanting something better is disloyal and negative. pure nonsense.

The only people I've seen on this thread, and I don't really care where else on the internet has given you flack for your opinions because /vp/ universally agrees with you and r/pokemon isn't too far behind on the near universal crapstorm on ShSw, telling people they're not real fans or shills or "faking having fun" is...you. You're the only one. You're the only one discounting people's opinions on liking the game and thinking it was a good investment because you don't like the game and don't want any of us to like it either.

I've gotten nothing but people outright denying anything wrong with any of this and refusing to acknowledge any of the problems I have with this as problems, right in this very thread. if they won't acknowledge things as problems that I'm the most critical about, what sensibility is there for any of us, if there is no common ground? is this truly sensibility, if all but one viewpoint is rejected? I don't think so. so, what do you define. as sensible?

Your viewpoint isn't being rejected. You've spent months sharing it and you have plenty of people in this very thread who agree with you. The line "If they won't acknowledge things as problems that I'm the most critical about, what sensibility is there for any of us, if there is no common ground" is the most telling. Telling us there's no sensibility if we don't just agree with you is not sensible. The fact that people have a different opinion than you isn't being insensible. Your viewpoint isn't being rejected because there are people who disagree with you.

[DataNinja]

So, I went into these games... not quite as blind as I would have liked, had some things spoiled for me even trying to avoid all the pre-release info, but... all in all, fairly blind. Played through, finished the postgame. I guess I'll share my thoughts from someone in that perspective.

Spoiler

Show

All in all... I liked it. It wasn't the best, but it wasn't horrendous either. There were some things that perturbed me, but I never felt like I wasted my money.

The new 'mon tended to fall into the "really cool" or "too derpy for me to like" categories, with a few 'meh' ones. But, eh, that's about the same as every gen.

I'm firmly 'meh' on the whole Dynamax concept. So, that's not going to really be touched on.

The Good:

The level curve was really smooth, at least without EXP candy grinding (only using it up to bump up new team members to about my average). I just played normally, primarily using my starter, and I was basically only a level or two above the trainers/gyms. Heck, I was underlevelled by 3-7 levels on each 'mon for the Champion match.
Gyms, too, were tough, but fair (assuming I didn't have an overwhelming type advantage with my lopsided team). I was able to squeak through using no healing items until the Semifinals, even if one of my battles I ended up winning by only 1 HP. ...Champion battle I totally had to cheat with all the Max Revives Sonia gave over the course of the game, though.

There was a decent diversity of 'mon, the wild area kept a decent distraction, and the ability to scoot around encounters to find what you wanted (for... somewhat, at least) was nice.

Trainer cards. Loved 'em. So nice to get details on them as people that just would really not come up that organically. It's a feature I love.

The characters who weren't obnoxious were really good. I liked a lot of them, even if they may not have gotten a huge amount of development. It was enough to make me care, though.

Having a structure to the League explaining things... I did like that bit.

A lot of the new 'mon, even if I didn't personally like them, they're pretty neat. There was certainly a lot of variety, and I had trouble picking which ones I actually wanted to use on my team.

Visible hidden items. Thank you. I would never actually use the Itemfinder, and so basically only found the stuff in 'suspicious' locations.

Just other general QoL stuff like being able to Remember anywhere (and for free!).

Environments were pretty cool, and gorgeous - even if the draw distance kinda was a bit of a pain at times. Shoutout to the mushroom forest for a unique location, and a cool gimmick in the mushrooms with dynamic lighting.

The Bad:

God, some of the evo requirements. As someone going in blind, how in the world was I supposed to figure out Yamask? I ended up boxing it in frustration around the Hot Spring City after trying everything.

I found so many characters obnoxious. Yes, I know Leon's unbeatable. I know you think you're the best, Hop (and, yes, I know type advantage, imagine that). I know Rose is such a great person, because he owns everything (which is totally not suspicious). I just can't stand constant braggadocio or character shilling. And then there's Squidward and Egbert Sordward and Shelbert in the postgame. I know they were designed that way, but, that just pushed me over the edge. Bede was frustrating, too, because it really seemed in the end that he got close to everything he wanted (I thought it was great that he was punished for his actions, and lost the approval he sought - that seemed like an appropriate and reasonable consequence. And then he ended up getting to do what he wanted anyways despite it).
(Opal gets a dishonourable mention because apparently the one NPC in the world I missed talking to was the one that told me the answers to her questions. Only found that out after I won anyways. But... that was my fault, really. )

The plot really fell apart at the end. Even though (as to be expected for the franchise), some characters were kinda blind to leaps of logic (I wonder what the Darkest Day has to do with Dynamaxing - when a dark storm forms over every Dynamaxed 'mon)… it was a fine progression. Up until the last city. There was good foreshadowing that something was up with Rose and/or Oleana… but there was literally no point to going up to the Rose Tower meeting (Leon would have refused anyways), and the last battle with Eternamax Enternatus? I felt like I was a bit player to the NPC Legendaries there. It was... disappointing.

I love Rotom… but, dang is it exhausting to have it shoved literally everywhere, and into every bit of tech.

It really felt like there were a lot less Trainers than normal. And, given that I usually use them to help me figure out what rare 'mon are about in the area, it meant I ended up with about a dozen new 'mon that I'd not seen hide nor hair of. Which was a shame. Especially since they were a lot more challenging this go 'round.

Some of the Gym Challenges. Looking at you in particular, spinny-cart and pitfinding. God, the pitfinding.

...not being able to wear different uniforms into the League. C'mon, I wanna wear my techno Steel outfit, that too much to ask?

That's most of what comes to mind right now, at least, but it's also after midnight, so, probably am forgetting things. All in all, though, would recommend.

[Lord Raziere]

{Scrubbed}

[Razade]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I never said you were wrong. I said I didn't agree that the criticisms you had. I understand you have them. That's fine. I'm pretty sure I told you, in as many words, that I didn't care if you bought the game or not. If you don't want to buy the game, don't. I don't want you wasting money you could spend on something you want to get. But I'm going to spend my money how I want and I wanted Sword. Don't try to put words in my mouth, don't try to cast me as the one antagonizing you just because I disagree with you and point out that you should maybe not take the position that people disagreeing with you are either

1. Disingenuous.
2. Suppressing or otherwise rejecting you.
3. Casting us as somehow unreasonable because we disagree with your assessment. Which you're about to do in the next quote.

You won't get away with it.

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Well for one? I haven't been acting like you're a bad guy. I pointed out why I didn't agree with your criticisms. If that makes me casting you as a "bad guy", for just disagreeing with you...I don't know what to tell you. You don't take anything I say worth a grain of salt to begin with, you seem...adverse to listening to any other opinion that doesn't align with yours. Dismissing it as, as above, hostile or suppressing you.

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I had nothing to do with the #thankyougamefreak. I can't even recall posting about it. Checking, I didn't.

Other than that...I like to have evidence in support of my opinions. That's not trying to prove I'm correct, it's explaining and showing the reason for how I feel the way I feel and because you, frankly, were spreading untrue things and I find that really disingenuous in a conversation. So I research and if you're right, like how people were right that Gamefreak did in fact reuse assets (bad on them) I own up to it. Because that's the honest thing to do. That's not trying to prove my opinion is fact. It's just being honest with my positions.

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Whatever you say chief. I'm going to go enjoy my game.

[deuterio12]

So, I went into these games... not quite as blind as I would have liked, had some things spoiled for me even trying to avoid all the pre-release info, but... all in all, fairly blind. Played through, finished the postgame. I guess I'll share my thoughts from someone in that perspective.

Spoiler

Show

All in all... I liked it. It wasn't the best, but it wasn't horrendous either. There were some things that perturbed me, but I never felt like I wasted my money.

The new 'mon tended to fall into the "really cool" or "too derpy for me to like" categories, with a few 'meh' ones. But, eh, that's about the same as every gen.

I'm firmly 'meh' on the whole Dynamax concept. So, that's not going to really be touched on.

The Good:

The level curve was really smooth, at least without EXP candy grinding (only using it up to bump up new team members to about my average). I just played normally, primarily using my starter, and I was basically only a level or two above the trainers/gyms. Heck, I was underlevelled by 3-7 levels on each 'mon for the Champion match.
Gyms, too, were tough, but fair (assuming I didn't have an overwhelming type advantage with my lopsided team). I was able to squeak through using no healing items until the Semifinals, even if one of my battles I ended up winning by only 1 HP. ...Champion battle I totally had to cheat with all the Max Revives Sonia gave over the course of the game, though.

There was a decent diversity of 'mon, the wild area kept a decent distraction, and the ability to scoot around encounters to find what you wanted (for... somewhat, at least) was nice.

Trainer cards. Loved 'em. So nice to get details on them as people that just would really not come up that organically. It's a feature I love.

The characters who weren't obnoxious were really good. I liked a lot of them, even if they may not have gotten a huge amount of development. It was enough to make me care, though.

Having a structure to the League explaining things... I did like that bit.

A lot of the new 'mon, even if I didn't personally like them, they're pretty neat. There was certainly a lot of variety, and I had trouble picking which ones I actually wanted to use on my team.

Visible hidden items. Thank you. I would never actually use the Itemfinder, and so basically only found the stuff in 'suspicious' locations.

Just other general QoL stuff like being able to Remember anywhere (and for free!).

Environments were pretty cool, and gorgeous - even if the draw distance kinda was a bit of a pain at times. Shoutout to the mushroom forest for a unique location, and a cool gimmick in the mushrooms with dynamic lighting.

The Bad:

God, some of the evo requirements. As someone going in blind, how in the world was I supposed to figure out Yamask? I ended up boxing it in frustration around the Hot Spring City after trying everything.

I found so many characters obnoxious. Yes, I know Leon's unbeatable. I know you think you're the best, Hop (and, yes, I know type advantage, imagine that). I know Rose is such a great person, because he owns everything (which is totally not suspicious). I just can't stand constant braggadocio or character shilling. And then there's Squidward and Egbert Sordward and Shelbert in the postgame. I know they were designed that way, but, that just pushed me over the edge. Bede was frustrating, too, because it really seemed in the end that he got close to everything he wanted (I thought it was great that he was punished for his actions, and lost the approval he sought - that seemed like an appropriate and reasonable consequence. And then he ended up getting to do what he wanted anyways despite it).
(Opal gets a dishonourable mention because apparently the one NPC in the world I missed talking to was the one that told me the answers to her questions. Only found that out after I won anyways. But... that was my fault, really. )

The plot really fell apart at the end. Even though (as to be expected for the franchise), some characters were kinda blind to leaps of logic (I wonder what the Darkest Day has to do with Dynamaxing - when a dark storm forms over every Dynamaxed 'mon)… it was a fine progression. Up until the last city. There was good foreshadowing that something was up with Rose and/or Oleana… but there was literally no point to going up to the Rose Tower meeting (Leon would have refused anyways), and the last battle with Eternamax Enternatus? I felt like I was a bit player to the NPC Legendaries there. It was... disappointing.

I love Rotom… but, dang is it exhausting to have it shoved literally everywhere, and into every bit of tech.

It really felt like there were a lot less Trainers than normal. And, given that I usually use them to help me figure out what rare 'mon are about in the area, it meant I ended up with about a dozen new 'mon that I'd not seen hide nor hair of. Which was a shame. Especially since they were a lot more challenging this go 'round.

Some of the Gym Challenges. Looking at you in particular, spinny-cart and pitfinding. God, the pitfinding.

...not being able to wear different uniforms into the League. C'mon, I wanna wear my techno Steel outfit, that too much to ask?

That's most of what comes to mind right now, at least, but it's also after midnight, so, probably am forgetting things. All in all, though, would recommend.

Nice review, thanks!

[Spore]

Not just any Switch game.

Pokémon Sword/Shield's the fastest Switch selling game to date.

I'm surprised that these games are selling quick. I thought that the games will flop.

Well, I can understand the naysayer. But as any "tribal behaviour" on the internet, their loudest voices are usually those who are the most extreme. I was critical towards pokemon in general but not loudly since they've just LOST me with Sun and Moon. The game concept is samey, the tutorial were especially hand-holdey and the world feels cramped. I realize Alola is supposed to BE islands but there is no natural transition. The boat rides feel like loading screens (because they are). ORAS was much better because there was a natural transition between islands.

Of course SwSh can work the Switch's muscles here and make the world bigger than ever before. And we have endured ****ty animations for attacks for 3 generations now (I think 4th gen has the best ones), and I still feel the gimmicks are annoying. I am talking primarily about non-combat ones.

The combat however has only gotten better. Gen 4 special split was great. Gen 5 hidden abilities were a blast. Gen 6 Mega Pokemon are dicey but cool aesthetically. Gen 7 Z moves are odd, but I get the need for stall-breaker moves Playing a 50 minute match with 30 minutes of it being a rest/recover spamming tank is boring. Gen 8 Dynamax is....not necessary imho. It only adds to the combat with secondary effects (which imho should've been part of z-moves), and it isolates a favorite few to be able to Giga-Dynamax to actually get one (in numbers: 1) special move. How this results in competitive battles remains to be seen.

Towards the game I can just say that I don't really like the writing for what I've seen? Hop is fervent but hopelessly untalented but nice enough so your heart breaks whenever you battle him. Leon and his fans are obnoxious. Bede is just in a realm of anime antagonists that is so unbelievably snobby it hurts. This insults are hollow because they're so badly written. In general almost all characters are as deep as a puddle. That is why the 7th gym leader is such a breath of fresh air, even though his character is not stellarly written either but at least he is interesting.

But I can't put my finger on it but I feel the game should've had voice acting, at least in cut scenes. The mouth moving does not work with the subtitles at all.

[Turalisj]

Honestly? Pokemon needs a good solid reset of things. Take a few years of not making anymore games (I know, shock and horror!), rebuild it around current and future ideas, take what was fun for previous games and put them together. Drop the dex down to JUST the new pokemon in that region and focus on making everything fully animated for them. Give us more than just token QoL improvements- multiple saves, an option for a hard mode, better setup UI, touch screen and motion controls better worked into the game. Then? When that's all worked out? Slowly add in the rest of the pokemon. Start with Gen1 and work forward from there, go in three or four month increments, make it a big in game event where the professor shows up and starts getting giddy about pokemon not seen to the region before. It would give new players a way of not getting overwhelmed and give older players a reason to not dismiss the game out of hand.

[deuterio12]

Honestly? Pokemon needs a good solid reset of things. Take a few years of not making anymore games (I know, shock and horror!)

That may've been viable decades ago but nowadays it would just plain kill/cripple the franchise for reals.

Besides the bit where that Gamefreak must keep up with the anime, the current world is just moving faster than ever. If the Pokémon games "pause" for multiple years, then most interest would be lost as the common players get overloaded with constant new shinies from everywhere else.

This is, if nothing else Nintendo would've launched new hardware and Gamefreak would've needed to learn how to use it.

[LaZodiac]

So, I went into these games... not quite as blind as I would have liked, had some things spoiled for me even trying to avoid all the pre-release info, but... all in all, fairly blind. Played through, finished the postgame. I guess I'll share my thoughts from someone in that perspective.

Spoiler

Show

All in all... I liked it. It wasn't the best, but it wasn't horrendous either. There were some things that perturbed me, but I never felt like I wasted my money.

The new 'mon tended to fall into the "really cool" or "too derpy for me to like" categories, with a few 'meh' ones. But, eh, that's about the same as every gen.

I'm firmly 'meh' on the whole Dynamax concept. So, that's not going to really be touched on.

The Good:

The level curve was really smooth, at least without EXP candy grinding (only using it up to bump up new team members to about my average). I just played normally, primarily using my starter, and I was basically only a level or two above the trainers/gyms. Heck, I was underlevelled by 3-7 levels on each 'mon for the Champion match.
Gyms, too, were tough, but fair (assuming I didn't have an overwhelming type advantage with my lopsided team). I was able to squeak through using no healing items until the Semifinals, even if one of my battles I ended up winning by only 1 HP. ...Champion battle I totally had to cheat with all the Max Revives Sonia gave over the course of the game, though.

There was a decent diversity of 'mon, the wild area kept a decent distraction, and the ability to scoot around encounters to find what you wanted (for... somewhat, at least) was nice.

Trainer cards. Loved 'em. So nice to get details on them as people that just would really not come up that organically. It's a feature I love.

The characters who weren't obnoxious were really good. I liked a lot of them, even if they may not have gotten a huge amount of development. It was enough to make me care, though.

Having a structure to the League explaining things... I did like that bit.

A lot of the new 'mon, even if I didn't personally like them, they're pretty neat. There was certainly a lot of variety, and I had trouble picking which ones I actually wanted to use on my team.

Visible hidden items. Thank you. I would never actually use the Itemfinder, and so basically only found the stuff in 'suspicious' locations.

Just other general QoL stuff like being able to Remember anywhere (and for free!).

Environments were pretty cool, and gorgeous - even if the draw distance kinda was a bit of a pain at times. Shoutout to the mushroom forest for a unique location, and a cool gimmick in the mushrooms with dynamic lighting.

The Bad:

God, some of the evo requirements. As someone going in blind, how in the world was I supposed to figure out Yamask? I ended up boxing it in frustration around the Hot Spring City after trying everything.

I found so many characters obnoxious. Yes, I know Leon's unbeatable. I know you think you're the best, Hop (and, yes, I know type advantage, imagine that). I know Rose is such a great person, because he owns everything (which is totally not suspicious). I just can't stand constant braggadocio or character shilling. And then there's Squidward and Egbert Sordward and Shelbert in the postgame. I know they were designed that way, but, that just pushed me over the edge. Bede was frustrating, too, because it really seemed in the end that he got close to everything he wanted (I thought it was great that he was punished for his actions, and lost the approval he sought - that seemed like an appropriate and reasonable consequence. And then he ended up getting to do what he wanted anyways despite it).
(Opal gets a dishonourable mention because apparently the one NPC in the world I missed talking to was the one that told me the answers to her questions. Only found that out after I won anyways. But... that was my fault, really. )

The plot really fell apart at the end. Even though (as to be expected for the franchise), some characters were kinda blind to leaps of logic (I wonder what the Darkest Day has to do with Dynamaxing - when a dark storm forms over every Dynamaxed 'mon)… it was a fine progression. Up until the last city. There was good foreshadowing that something was up with Rose and/or Oleana… but there was literally no point to going up to the Rose Tower meeting (Leon would have refused anyways), and the last battle with Eternamax Enternatus? I felt like I was a bit player to the NPC Legendaries there. It was... disappointing.

I love Rotom… but, dang is it exhausting to have it shoved literally everywhere, and into every bit of tech.

It really felt like there were a lot less Trainers than normal. And, given that I usually use them to help me figure out what rare 'mon are about in the area, it meant I ended up with about a dozen new 'mon that I'd not seen hide nor hair of. Which was a shame. Especially since they were a lot more challenging this go 'round.

Some of the Gym Challenges. Looking at you in particular, spinny-cart and pitfinding. God, the pitfinding.

...not being able to wear different uniforms into the League. C'mon, I wanna wear my techno Steel outfit, that too much to ask?

That's most of what comes to mind right now, at least, but it's also after midnight, so, probably am forgetting things. All in all, though, would recommend.

Spoiler

Show

Addressed in backwards order;

I think you can wear different uniforms, you just need to change in advance at the clothing store, which is the only place to change clothes for no reason at all!

I'll admit I didn't mind the spin cart or pitfinding. It was actually kinda fun and intense. The rumble reliance is definitely a No thing though.

I actually find that part interesting. In older games the teams were basically all made so that you'd see basically every pokemon except obscure evolutions. In this game it leaves you with a lot more to discover, and I kinda like that!

At least he isn't yapping at you every five seconds in this one

The way the Darkest DAy works is that our good friend Eternatus the Dracolich was this massive pokemon who's body radiated that dynamax energy, kaijufying pokemon at random. It's called the Darkest Day because all people remember of it is his massive "Eternamaxed" form, the ouroboros in the sky with the giant five headed dragon hand-head thing. Also, I didn't really feel like that bit a player in the final fight, but that's just me. I'm fighting alongside the two hero pokemon, as one of the two chosen humans who get to do that. I think that's rad as hell personally.

Honestly the funniest thing about the Rose Tower meeting is that we're um.. entirely in the wrong during it? Like, Rose isn't actually even remotely villainous and it's kind of hilarious. He's just an idiot, his goals are all perfectly reasonable and Leon's refusing to take one day off to beat and catch a super dragon so they have better control over their system is... kind of hilariously shortsighted of him.

That NPC only tells you the answers AFTER the gym challenge, silly

I actually liked most of the characters myself, but I get not liking them. Hope's constant repetition of the super effective hit thing is hilarious, ESPECIALLY WHEN LEON THEN DOES IT TOO. It's great. Leon's absolute assurance that he is truly, genuinely the best and absolutely unbeatable makes it all the more satisfying that I know I'm going to be an arrow directly into his ****ing heel. Like they manage to make Leon into an amicable, likable pompous buffoon.

Spin around for five minutes at dusk counterclockwise to get the best Alcremie form *dies from how ludicrous this is*. Also I didn't realize Yamask had a unique evolution requirement.

Honestly? Pokemon needs a good solid reset of things. Take a few years of not making anymore games (I know, shock and horror!), rebuild it around current and future ideas, take what was fun for previous games and put them together. Drop the dex down to JUST the new pokemon in that region and focus on making everything fully animated for them. Give us more than just token QoL improvements- multiple saves, an option for a hard mode, better setup UI, touch screen and motion controls better worked into the game. Then? When that's all worked out? Slowly add in the rest of the pokemon. Start with Gen1 and work forward from there, go in three or four month increments, make it a big in game event where the professor shows up and starts getting giddy about pokemon not seen to the region before. It would give new players a way of not getting overwhelmed and give older players a reason to not dismiss the game out of hand.

I mean I liked Swish but this is true. Gamefreak is basically a content mill at this point, they need to take some time off. We don't need yearly Pokemon games.

If there's one thing we should take from this, it's that more game developers need to fight for their rights.

@Duetrio: If F Zero announced a new game tomorrow I can assure you it would suddenly become one of the most preordered games ever. Pokemon can afford to take a few years off to rest.

[Manticoran]

@Duetrio: If F Zero announced a new game tomorrow I can assure you it would suddenly become one of the most preordered games ever. Pokemon can afford to take a few years off to rest.

I think this isn't what you meant, but I suspect contractually that Nintendo and the Pokemon Company won't let them. Swoosh is the best selling switch game ever, and it's likely the next one will be incredibly high selling too. I know a number of people who chose to get a switch just for Pokemon.

Honestly what I'd like to see if I'm living in fantasy land is Pokemon as a games as service, where you get dlc region and story unlocks but it's actually a bunch of generations as all one actual game.

[deuterio12]

@Duetrio: If F Zero announced a new game tomorrow I can assure you it would suddenly become one of the most preordered games ever. Pokemon can afford to take a few years off to rest.

How many new kids nowadays would even know what an f-zero even is?

Also how well did Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 and Megaman 11 perform after plenty of years of rest?

I think this isn't what you meant, but I suspect contractually that Nintendo and the Pokemon Company won't let them. Swoosh is the best selling switch game ever, and it's likely the next one will be incredibly high selling too. I know a number of people who chose to get a switch just for Pokemon.

That. It's not only Gamefreak's decision to do.

One of the reasons why Pokémon is still going strong after two decades is that people can expect regular new entries. A flawed game that actually gets updated is always better than a theoretically perfect game that never gets finished (or spends too may years building so much hype that it ends up being impossible to satisfy said hype and can only crash and burn).

[DataNinja]

Spoiler

Show

Addressed in backwards order;

I think you can wear different uniforms, you just need to change in advance at the clothing store, which is the only place to change clothes for no reason at all!

I'll admit I didn't mind the spin cart or pitfinding. It was actually kinda fun and intense. The rumble reliance is definitely a No thing though.

I actually find that part interesting. In older games the teams were basically all made so that you'd see basically every pokemon except obscure evolutions. In this game it leaves you with a lot more to discover, and I kinda like that!

At least he isn't yapping at you every five seconds in this one

The way the Darkest DAy works is that our good friend Eternatus the Dracolich was this massive pokemon who's body radiated that dynamax energy, kaijufying pokemon at random. It's called the Darkest Day because all people remember of it is his massive "Eternamaxed" form, the ouroboros in the sky with the giant five headed dragon hand-head thing. Also, I didn't really feel like that bit a player in the final fight, but that's just me. I'm fighting alongside the two hero pokemon, as one of the two chosen humans who get to do that. I think that's rad as hell personally.

Honestly the funniest thing about the Rose Tower meeting is that we're um.. entirely in the wrong during it? Like, Rose isn't actually even remotely villainous and it's kind of hilarious. He's just an idiot, his goals are all perfectly reasonable and Leon's refusing to take one day off to beat and catch a super dragon so they have better control over their system is... kind of hilariously shortsighted of him.

That NPC only tells you the answers AFTER the gym challenge, silly

I actually liked most of the characters myself, but I get not liking them. Hope's constant repetition of the super effective hit thing is hilarious, ESPECIALLY WHEN LEON THEN DOES IT TOO. It's great. Leon's absolute assurance that he is truly, genuinely the best and absolutely unbeatable makes it all the more satisfying that I know I'm going to be an arrow directly into his ****ing heel. Like they manage to make Leon into an amicable, likable pompous buffoon.

Spin around for five minutes at dusk counterclockwise to get the best Alcremie form *dies from how ludicrous this is*. Also I didn't realize Yamask had a unique evolution requirement.

Spoiler

Show

Oh, huh. Well... that would have been good to have some indication of. I do hate how Centers no longer have changing rooms...

There wasn't really any challenge to the pits, though. It was literally just teeeeedium. And doing the exact section over and over again, only to accidentally cut a corner too sharp and fall into a pit you avoided before.

I'll be honest... I didn't mind Rotom in the Ultra games. They toned him down properly. Before that sucked, though.

I mean, I know what it is, I just find it funny that someone can't put 2 + 2 together with "Dynamax is totally connected to the Darkest Day, obviously, because there are these giant dark storms".

Ah, okay. I feel less bad about missing him, then. I was very annoyed at myself, because I make it a point to talk to everyone.

Okay, I did chuckle a bit in the end at the brother similarities with the announcing stuff. Not enough to make up for the rest of the game, but... since it was a one-off there, I found it funny. It was just run into the ground before.

Yeeeeeep, there are some stupid obscure stuff. "3 crits in one battle for SirFetch'd".

[LaZodiac]

How many new kids nowadays would even know what an f-zero even is?

Also how well did Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 and Megaman 11 perform after plenty of years of rest?

In order; badly but that's because Blizzard is dumb as hell, well enough to get a sequel, well enough to revive an entire dead franchise and genre and give a ton of people hope in a new and improved Capcom.

so... very well actually, yeah.

Spoiler

Show

Oh, huh. Well... that would have been good to have some indication of. I do hate how Centers no longer have changing rooms...

There wasn't really any challenge to the pits, though. It was literally just teeeeedium. And doing the exact section over and over again, only to accidentally cut a corner too sharp and fall into a pit you avoided before.

I'll be honest... I didn't mind Rotom in the Ultra games. They toned him down properly. Before that sucked, though.

I mean, I know what it is, I just find it funny that someone can't put 2 + 2 together with "Dynamax is totally connected to the Darkest Day, obviously, because there are these giant dark storms".

Ah, okay. I feel less bad about missing him, then. I was very annoyed at myself, because I make it a point to talk to everyone.

Okay, I did chuckle a bit in the end at the brother similarities with the announcing stuff. Not enough to make up for the rest of the game, but... since it was a one-off there, I found it funny. It was just run into the ground before.

Yeeeeeep, there are some stupid obscure stuff. "3 crits in one battle for SirFetch'd".

Spoiler

Show

In my defense of defending it, I never fell into a pit. And if you touch one of the platforms you don't have to redo the ENTIRE area, they're safe spots.

Yeah that's fair. Maybe limiting that specific phrase, or maybe making Hop more frustrated about it as the game goes on, and then having Leon do the same dang thing to make you realize Hop thinks he's hot **** because he's emulating his brother. It'll help tie into the plot point that Hop's entire character is one that's about five seconds from slamming into a brick wall and it destroying him emotionally; and then Bede fights him and that exact thing happens. It's great.

... wait, to get SirFetch'd you need to zandatsu three people in a single battle? That's... absurd!! Very silly!