Shadow Of The Demon Lord

[Hemnon]

I wish there were so many more games run with this system. The mere fact you can play as a Vampire, Revenant, etc. etc. makes it so interesting.

Anyone else who've tried this system before?

[Max_Killjoy]

I wish there were so many more games run with this system. The mere fact you can play as a Vampire, Revenant, etc. etc. makes it so interesting.

Anyone else who've tried this system before?

What are the mechanics like?

[gkathellar]

What are the mechanics like?

It's a d20 fantasy game with a horror streak. It generally eschews large stacking bonuses and huge HP/damage numbers for more modest adjustments, but has a system of so-called "Boons" and "Banes" whereby characters have d6s added or subtracted from their d20 rolls. The horror streak comes out in the existence of mechanics for sanity loss and corruption, as well as the default setting.

Character progression is 10 levels long and is noteworthy in that it's based on selecting a succession of options with ever-narrowing conceptual focus, and abilities granted at given levels for each of these options. So your ancestry (what other games would call race) grants you stuff at levels 1 and 4, a "Novice path" (warrior, rogue, priest, or mage) gives you stuff at levels 1, 2, 5, and 8, an "Expert path" (an archetype like paladin, artificer, druid, warlock, etc) at 3, 6, and 9, and a "Master path" (a narrower archetype still) at 7 and 10. This keeps progression simple and organized, while allowing for a fair bit of choice as you level and helping to better-define characters as they level up.

It's an interesting game, one that I like big parts of, although I wish the horror elements were more extricable from the rules. The default setting is solid, owing a lot of DNA to Warhammer Fantasy, but is nowhere near as gonzo. Also while the art is good, it's occasionally a little tasteless.

[Hemnon]

It's a d20 fantasy game with a horror streak. It generally eschews large stacking bonuses and huge HP/damage numbers for more modest adjustments, but has a system of so-called "Boons" and "Banes" whereby characters have d6s added or subtracted from their d20 rolls. The horror streak comes out in the existence of mechanics for sanity loss and corruption, as well as the default setting.

Character progression is 10 levels long and is noteworthy in that it's based on selecting a succession of options with ever-narrowing conceptual focus, and abilities granted at given levels for each of these options. So your ancestry (what other games would call race) grants you stuff at levels 1 and 4, a "Novice path" (warrior, rogue, priest, or mage) gives you stuff at levels 1, 2, 5, and 8, an "Expert path" (an archetype like paladin, artificer, druid, warlock, etc) at 3, 6, and 9, and a "Master path" (a narrower archetype still) at 7 and 10. This keeps progression simple and organized, while allowing for a fair bit of choice as you level and helping to better-define characters as they level up.

It's an interesting game, one that I like big parts of, although I wish the horror elements were more extricable from the rules. The default setting is solid, owing a lot of DNA to Warhammer Fantasy, but is nowhere near as gonzo. Also while the art is good, it's occasionally a little tasteless.

What gkathellar said, pretty much.
There's also a very varied choice of character Race, such as Human, Clockwerk (literal soul infused into a mechanical body), goblin, etc. etc. Then there's the more special ones that require you to pick a core race, like being a Revenant (aka. you died as a 'choose race', but you have unfinished business so you keep returning to semi-life until you have managed to finish your unfinished business. There's also stuff like being an actual vampire.

I also love how they fact that they've made gods and the actual functional concept of 'heaven and hell', with it being a reincarnation of souls cycles where the underworld is where souls go until time erodes any semblance of person, leaving behind a fresh clean soul that can return to the mortal realm an inhabit a new infant body.
However, were you evil and died, you get to go to hell where devils feast on your corruption and rips your soul apart over and over until it's a pure, uncorrupted soul once again that can get to leave hell and return to the mortal world.
Also, gods are dependant on mortals, since the fact that mortals believe in them gives them power and actual existence, not the other way around.

Oh and gkathellar, you can choose another type of 'shadow of the demonlord' to be in effect. Heck you can even choose to just go with a more homebrewed idea. I've made one that is based around the rise of a vampire lord (a la Castlevania) where the demon lord is pretty much that Vampire, unable to be truely slain, and due to villain-rule-number-1 he never just destroys the world right away, but starts out with seeking a way to return to the realm of the living from the chaos-seeting abyss.

Oh and the otherdimensional robotsquid monster is amazing. the idea of extra-dimensional invaders/refugees having sent those Matrix Squids as scouts before invading themselves is also an amazing idea for a campaign. they are fleeing their own reality which is on the brink of being destroyed by the Demon Lord's armies of demonic horrors.
IIRC the Lizadmen of the game are prior high-tech refugees of another reality that has slowly over time lost their abilities with high-tech stuff and whatnot.
There's those artifacts and relics which can literally be a chainsaw from some 'irl reality', or a shotgun. Yes that is all kinds of Ash Williams with Boomstick and Chainsaw for hand.

[gkathellar]

Oh and gkathellar, you can choose another type of 'shadow of the demonlord' to be in effect.

My main issue isn't anything to do with the default setting, to be clear. Rather, I'm not fond of the integration of the sanity/corruption rules into path mechanics, and into broader stat balance. I like SotDL a lot, but I'm not big on either of those things, and they're harder to cut out than I'd like.

[Hemnon]

My main issue isn't anything to do with the default setting, to be clear. Rather, I'm not fond of the integration of the sanity/corruption rules into path mechanics, and into broader stat balance. I like SotDL a lot, but I'm not big on either of those things, and they're harder to cut out than I'd like.

Ahh, yeah. True.
Although at least the concept of corruption and such has been integrated functionally into the Lore, as in it is an idea of staining the soul and if it is stained enough, it can only be cleansed through being a feast for the Devils of hell.

At least there's a way to heal the mind and cleans the soul before death, so it's not like with Warhammer where it is permanent, but rather something that reflects your true nature and actions, as well as the INTENT of those actions.

[Florian]

What are the mechanics like?

Basically D20 done right.

My main issue isn't anything to do with the default setting, to be clear. Rather, I'm not fond of the integration of the sanity/corruption rules into path mechanics, and into broader stat balance. I like SotDL a lot, but I'm not big on either of those things, and they're harder to cut out than I'd like.

SotDL is setting first, mechanics that support that second. Unlike D&D, it doesn't claim to be setting agnostic or universal. It is geared towards a similar gameplay like Warhammer Fantasy and nothing else.

[Knaight]

SotDL is setting first, mechanics that support that second. Unlike D&D, it doesn't claim to be setting agnostic or universal. It is geared towards a similar gameplay like Warhammer Fantasy and nothing else.

That said, it's about as setting universal as D&D is. That's a low bar, but it clears it.

[Hemnon]

That said, it's about as setting universal as D&D is. That's a low bar, but it clears it.

True. Still there's a major focus on, well, a world closing in on total destruction. So many different ways to represent that. The Demon Lord doesn't even have to be a singular entity. It can be a concept, a collective will of annihilation, etc. It can also be a Dracula-style villain with a Castlevania-lore feel, or perhaps it is the true first existence, before order existed or realities were made.

There's also the difference in how the gods, souls, etc. works. Rather than creator gods and such, it's a cycle of reincarnation for souls and such.


But yeah, anyways, I just love the more grim and darker-toned setting for SotDL. I love D&D as well, but there's too much of just D&D, D20 Modern Variants, Freeform God-games, etc. There's no Mutant: Year Zero games, no Warbirds games, no Coriolis The Third Horizon games, etc. etc.
I wish more people were interested in trying other and more varied systems and game styles.

[gkathellar]

SotDL is setting first, mechanics that support that second. Unlike D&D, it doesn't claim to be setting agnostic or universal. It is geared towards a similar gameplay like Warhammer Fantasy and nothing else.

Which is fine, and the setting is cool enough. But it's debatably a good reason to, for instance, have Berserkers lose sanity every time they use their key ability. You can always just ignore that, but stats like Willpower become a lot less valuable if you do, etc.

The game is well-balanced and well built to do exactly what it wants to do, but I think it's worth noting that it's non-trivial to adjust things related to the horror elements. I think that's a shame because the real mechanical standout is the character progression, and the character progression has nothing to do with the setting.

[Morty]

I bought it and took a look at it some time ago. It certainly looks interesting and retains the general d20 "feel" while doing things other d20 games won't dare (rolling more than one die on checks, changing attributes). It's a shame that one of the steps in its otherwise interesting model of progression is this old warrior/mage/rogue/priest fossil, but I guess you can't have everything.

[Hemnon]

I bought it and took a look at it some time ago. It certainly looks interesting and retains the general d20 "feel" while doing things other d20 games won't dare (rolling more than one die on checks, changing attributes). It's a shame that one of the steps in its otherwise interesting model of progression is this old warrior/mage/rogue/priest fossil, but I guess you can't have everything.

Well that's just the Novice Path choice. after that you get radically more diverging choices for your more advanced roles and such. Letting you organically advance down the path of your choice.
It's rather cool you can have a party of nothing but Warriors, and at next choice you get a group that is all warriors but with very differing choices on advancement.

[Morty]

Well that's just the Novice Path choice. after that you get radically more diverging choices for your more advanced roles and such. Letting you organically advance down the path of your choice.
It's rather cool you can have a party of nothing but Warriors, and at next choice you get a group that is all warriors but with very differing choices on advancement.

Yes, so it's not a big problem, but disappointing nonetheless. I'd have preferred one class for each attribute, for instance.

[dejarnjc]

Yes, so it's not a big problem, but disappointing nonetheless. I'd have preferred one class for each attribute, for instance.

Isn't that what it is basically?

Magician: Intellect
Priest: Will
Rogue: Agility
Warrior: Strength

[Morty]

Isn't that what it is basically?

Magician: Intellect
Priest: Will
Rogue: Agility
Warrior: Strength

Not really, because warriors can use dexterity and magicians, well, use magic. Going a step further would make it more natural to play a quick character who's not a rogue or a smart one who's not a magician.