Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Council of Wyrms?

    As the title implies, I liked the 2e Council of Wyrms setting, and was thinking about a way to do this for 5e. I placed this here (instead of in World Building) since it deals with game-based mechanics.
    ----
    I would most likely be doing HD=Lv: but what I'm not sure about is - if this is balanced enough without needing to add a "Level Adjustment" modifier.

    The Breath Weapon isn't too big a deal, since the "odds" are actually a little less likely to get back than 3x D&D's 1d4 rounds.

    Types of Dragons are not really balanced between each other.

    Take Silver Dragon Wyrmling:
    Looks like HP = 1d8 + Con mod per HD, so not a problem. 6 HD.

    Immune to Cold, but not Vulnerable to Fire?

    Blindsight 10 ft, and Darkvision 60 ft, no problem.

    I can break the Breath Weapon's 4d6 damage between the 6 HD.

    Multi-attack would unlock at 5 HD.

    But here is the main problem:
    +8 Str, +6 Con, +2 Int, and +4 Cha.
    (Using the 3x method for figuring out racial ability modifiers)

    Even putting 8 Str, 10 Con, 14 Int, and 12 Cha means that four of six stats are 16.
    Point Buy gives at least one more 16 (Wis), and (I think) a 15 (Dex).

    Even at level one, this would far outweigh any base Race PC.

    I suppose that making the abilities be like a Mountain Dwarf (+2 Str and +2 Con) could be done, making a huge difference between a Wild Dragon and a PC Dragon.

    Now, a Young Silver Dragon has 16 HD, so the PC would not increase their Draconic power until then, and taking Class Levels delays gaining them.

    However, I was thinking that Dragons could be treated as being like Dragonborn, giving +2 to any one stat, and a +1 to another state based on Dragon Type; and including breath weapon 1x Short Rest (improved breath at 6 HD for recharge on 5-6?). While Dragons getting their Breath more often than Dragonborn, it usually does less damage.
    Edit: At higher level, the Dragon's Breath does more damage, but the Dragonborn has Class Levels for balance.

    Use a feat for each movement type (flight, burrow, swim) over 30 feet.

    Now, I expect HD/Class Multiclassing, but few Dragons would dip more than 1-3 levels so as to still get full benefit from their Dragon's Young Category?

    Now, is this close enough to being Balanced that playing a Dragon PC is cool, without making the ďnormalĒ Races (including Dragonborn) being viewed as being ďworthlessĒ?

    Anything I'm overlooking?
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-04-27 at 06:42 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Avatar By Linklele!

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    I would NOT map HD to Level. HD is used, for monsters, to determine HP. Nothing more.

    Edit: I'm quite interested in this, though.
    Last edited by JNAProductions; 2019-04-21 at 08:06 PM.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Professor Gnoll!
    Show


    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Cdr. Fallout!
    Show

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    I would NOT map HD to Level. HD is used, for monsters, to determine HP. Nothing more.
    For Dragon PCs, I was thinking about not just HD=HP, but also being used for calculation of Proficiency bonus total.

    Also, the Dragon PC can get the ASI/feat option at every 4 HD. Yes, this means 20th HD for that last ASI/feat! Normal Multiclassing rules apply.

    Dragon Skill would be: Perception.
    Additional skills granted by each Dragon.
    (Gold, White, Amathyst, etc)
    ----
    Would you map CR to Level, instead?
    The problem I have is that the Sliver Dragon example is a CR 2, with 6 HD.

    I would have trouble basing it on just CR.

    JNAProductions: Edit: I'm quite interested in this, though.
    Thanks!!
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-04-22 at 09:37 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Avatar By Linklele!

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    Honestly, I think youíre gonna have to make dragon classes. They can be more powerful than normal classes, but should be balanced against each other.

    Iím out and about right now, but I might take a stab at it later.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Professor Gnoll!
    Show


    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Cdr. Fallout!
    Show

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    I am very interested in the Dragon Classes.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Avatar By Linklele!

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    HIT POINTS
    Hit Dice: 2d12
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 24+2*Con Mod
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 2d12 (13)+2*Con Mod

    PROFICIENCIES
    Armor: None
    Weapons: Natural Weapons
    Tools: None

    Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
    Skills: Choose two from Athletics, Stealth, Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, Insight, Perception, Survival, Intimidation, and Persuasion

    Brute Dragon
    Level Proficiency Bonus Features Breath Attack
    1st +2 Brute Weapons, Breath Attack, Natural Defense 1d6
    2nd +2 Subclass 3d6
    3rd +2 Multiattack 4d6
    4th +2 Ability Score Improvement 6d6
    5th +3 Improved Brute Weapons 7d6
    6th +3 Subclass Feature 9d6
    7th +3 Multiattack II 10d6
    8th +3 Ability Score Improvement 12d6
    9th +4 Improved Breath Attack 13d6
    10th +4 Subclass Feature 15d6
    11th +4 Multiattack III 16d6
    12th +4 Ability Score Improvement 18d6
    13th +5 Greater Brute Weapons 19d6
    14th +5 Subclass Feature 21d6
    15th +5 Multiattack IV 22d6
    16th +5 Ability Score Improvement 24d6
    17th +6 Greater Breath Attack 25d6
    18th +6 Subclass Feature 27d6
    19th +6 Ability Score Improvement 28d6
    20th +6 Multiattack V 30d6

    Brute Weapons
    At level one, you gain the following weapons:
    -A Bite attack, which is 2d10 piercing damage with a reach of 10'
    -Two Claw attacks, which are 2d6 slashing with a reach of 10' and are considered Light weapons
    -A Tail attack, which is 2d8 bludgeoning damage with a reach of 15'
    -Two Wing attacks, which are 2d4 bludgeoning damage with a reach of 10' and are considered Light weapons

    At level five, your natural attacks now count as magical.

    And at level thirteen, you increases the die size of all your natural weapons by one step.

    Breath Attack
    At level one, you also gain a breath attack, dealing elemental damage of the appropriate type. It may be used a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier, and deals the damage indicated on the table in a 30' cone or 60' line. Uses recharge after a long rest. A Constitution or Dexterity save (depending on the element) may be attempted to halve the damage, with a DC of 8+your Constitution modifier+your proficiency modifier.

    At level nine, uses recharge after a short or long rest, and the size increases to a 45' cone or 90' line.

    At level seventeen, you may regain a use of a breath attack with an action, and the size increases to a 60' cone or 120' line.

    Natural Defense
    Finally at level one, you gain Natural Defense. Your AC may equal 10+your Strength modifier+your Constitution modifier. When using this for your AC, you must include your Dexterity modifier if it is a penalty-otherwise ignore it.

    Subclass
    At level two, pick your subclass, Hoarder or Warrior. This grants you features at levels two, six, ten, fourteen, and eighteen.

    Multiattack
    At level three, you may attack with up to two separate natural weapons when you take the Attack action.

    This increases to three at level seven, four at level eleven, five at level fifteen, and six (or all of them) at level twenty.

    Ability Score Improvement
    Usual levels, NOT the usual deal. You may increase your Strength and Constitution up to 24 with ASIs from this class, though all other stats are limited to 20 when using these ASIs.

    Spoiler: Hoarder
    Show
    A Dragon's Hoard
    At level two, you may create a hoard. In addition to allowing you a place to store your massive amounts of goods, you may also store magic items there. You may gain the benefits of a magic item in your hoard and not on your person by attuning to it, so long as it does not usually require attunement.

    Adaptable Hoard
    At level six, you may attune to items that would usually be impossible for a dragon to use. For instance, a +2 Warhammer could be attuned to in order to gain its magic on a single natural attack of your choice.

    Improved Hoard
    At level ten, you may now use items that normally require attunement from your hoard.

    Greater Hoard
    At level fourteen, non-attunement items may be used so long as they are in your hoard, no longer requiring attunement.

    Perfect Hoard
    At level eighteen, your attunement limit increases to five.


    Spoiler: Warrior
    Show
    Fighting Style
    At level two, you may pick any fighting style. If you choose Protection, your wings may be used instead of a shield, and if you choose Defense, you are always treated as wearing armor for its bonus.

    Improved Critical
    At level six, you score a critical on a roll of 19-20 with your natural weapons.

    Second Fighting Style
    At level ten, you gain a second fighting style of your choice.

    Greater Critical
    At level fourteen, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20 with your natural weapons.

    Action Surge
    At level eighteen, once per short rest, you may take a second action on your turn.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Professor Gnoll!
    Show


    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Cdr. Fallout!
    Show

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    That is very nice!
    However, I might lower HD to 1d12 and give Alternate Form, which I forgot to include before.

    In my games, all Dragons were given this by IO to increase survival of non-metalic dragons. Metallic regain use after a short rest, all others after a long rest.

    Got one for Casters?
    I could see Subclasses split between Arcane (Charisma; choosing from both Sorcerer and Wizard lists) and Divine (Wisdom; choosing from both Cleric and Druid lists).

    Here is my Idea:
    Caster
    HIT POINTS
    Hit Dice: 1d10
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 +2*Con Mod
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (6) +2*Con Mod

    PROFICIENCIES
    Armor: None
    Weapons: Bite.
    Tools: None

    Saving Throws: Intelligence, Charisma.
    Skills: Choose two from: Deception, Stealth, Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, Insight, Perception, Survival, Intimidation, and Persuasion

    LV Features
    01 One Cantrip
    02 Subclass Two Cantrips.
    03 1st level spells
    04 Ability Increase
    05 2nd level spells
    06 Subclass Feature
    07 3rd level spells
    08 Ability Increase
    09 4th level spells
    10 Subclass Feature
    11 5th level spells
    12 Ability Increase
    13 6th level spells
    14 Subclass Feature
    15 7th level spells
    16 Ability Increase
    17 8th level spells
    18 Subclass Feature
    19 9th level spells
    20 Ability Increase

    Spoiler: Spark Subclass
    Show

    Casting ability: Cha
    Choose from Sorcerer and Wizard lists.
    Spells Known: Level + Cha

    Second Level: Able to cast a spell with the verbal component without speaking. Once per short rest.

    Sixth Level: Able to cast a spell with the somatic component without moving.. Once per short rest.

    Tenth Level: Able to cast a spell with the material component without them. Once per short rest.

    Fourteenth Level: Double the Range of all spells.
    Touch spells have a Range of 20 feet.

    Eighteenth Level: Able to impose Disadvantage on saves to a number of creatures equal to Intelligence modifier. Once per long rest.


    Spoiler: Wrath Subclass
    Show

    Casting ability: Wis
    Choose from Cleric and Druid lists.
    Spells Known: Level + Cha

    Second Level: Able to change your Breath Weapon from Cone to Line, or reverse.
    Once per short rest.

    Sixth Level: Able to Twin a single target spell. Once per short rest.

    Tenth Level: Sacrifice a spell slot to add damage matching your Breath Weapon type to your Bite attack. +1d6 per level.

    Fourteenth Level: Sacrifice a spell slot to create an Aura that deals damage to all creatures within 5 feet of you. 1d8 per level.

    Eighteenth Level: Sacrifice a spell slot to cause your Breath Weapon to deal either Radiant or Necrotic damage.


    (I'm not good at making grids, and my phone limits other options)

    More?
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-04-25 at 10:23 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    Next

    Gem Dragons.

    Amethyst dragon
    Breath weapon: Line of force

    Crystal dragon
    Breath weapon: Line of blinding light

    Emerald dragon
    Breath weapon: Powerful burst of wind.

    Sapphire dragon
    Breath weapon: Cone of panicking sound

    Topaz dragon
    Breath weapon: Cone of dehydration
    --------
    Gem Dragonborn

    I liked the idea of Dragonwrought Kobolds.

    But, I'm not sure how to really make them different from being the Kobold version of Dragonborn?

    +2 Cha, +1 Dex. 60 foot Darkvision.
    No Sunlight sensitivity.
    No Pack Tactics.

    Instead of Breath Weapons, give them Immunity to one Energy damage type and Vulnerability to another?

    Black: Acid; Thunder
    Blue: Lightning; Poison
    Green:Poison; Psychic
    Red: Fire; Frost
    White: Frost; Radiant

    Brass: Psychic; Thunder
    Bronze: Lightning; Poison
    Copper: Acid; Force.
    Gold: Fire; Necrotic
    Silver: Frost; Fire.

    Gem Dragonwrought Kobold
    Amethyst (Resistant to Force); Thunder

    Crystal Blinded; Necrotic

    Emerald Thunder; Lightning

    Sapphire Fear; Force

    Topaz Dehydration; Acid

    Racial Feat: Urd.
    30 foot flight and +1 Dex
    ******************************
    I'm basically treating Half-Dragons as first-generation Dragonborn or Dragonwrought.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-07-14 at 06:43 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    I'm thinking about reading up on Dragonmarked, and seeing if that can be added.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    So... my DM and I actually put together a Silver Dragon Wyrmling (and also Young Silver Dragon) that I am currently playing in 5e. Granted, I have an awesome DM, but if interested, I'd be happy to link my character. It's basically looking at the 5e Silver Dragon, and pulling forward a lot of 3.5 info from Draconomicon.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    That would be great.

    It would allow me to see how your DM did the conversion with any mechanics involved, and you could put in updates on what all your Dragon did, and any grey areas you find.

    Epic
    HD 21 Lair Actions
    HD 22 1st Legendary Action
    HD 23 1st Legendary Resistance
    HD 24 2nd Legendary Action
    HD 26 2nd Legendary Resistance
    HD 28 3rd Legendary Action
    HD 29 3rd Legendary Resistance
    HD 30 Boon

    Dang - Dead Thread.
    No playtesters as of yet.

    Anyone interested in chatting about this, can PM me, or respond in:
    Hello
    unless that also dies.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-07-20 at 10:48 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    Hi all.

    Lots of interesting stuff here. The dragon wrought kobolds are a nice addition.

    Just so happens Iíve been working on a thorough conversion of all the Council of Wryms materials for several years. Rather than making dragon classes I made races worth levels (more as they age). Almost but not quite like the 3e LA system. All this work has been first posted an discussed elsewhere (The Piazza) and I donít want to rehash several years of posts and discussion here. However, Iíll post a like to the draft version of Book 1 here. THere is also a draft version of Book 2 and Iím half way through converting Book 3.

    EDIT: Sod, Iím too new here to post a link.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Council of Wyrms?

    The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Turn unthread!
    Spoiler: Avatar by always-awesome Cuthalion
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show
    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    "Other people also have it bad" is not a good argument for the status quo. It's just an argument that more people need help.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •