Results 121 to 150 of 397
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2019-05-05, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-05-05, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
She required a tie with her vote, not counting the lesser deities.
So one pantheon needs to vote yes, one pantheon needs to vote no, and from her pantheon there need to be exactly 9 votes for no. Otherwise her whole plan would have had zero influence on the outcome.
I also dont dislike politics als plot points. The politics in the plotlines about Tarquin and Shojo were great. Tarquin is probably my favourite arc of whole oots.
I just dislike this specific case here.
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2019-05-05, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-05-05, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Yeah, it seems like they have this vote every time a world goes under so I think every god could have listed the Yes/No vote with their eyes closed the day it was called.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-05-05, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Another way to look at it is 'we didn't see what Hel's backup plan for a majority against the world's destruction was, because it was unnecessary'. If it had gone with South/West agreeing to save the world, Durkon* would've kept his mouth shut at the Godsmoot and quietly implemented a plan (maybe making his own bid to destroy Kraagors Gate, or exacerbating the rifts in West/South to force the Pantheons to reconsider) with his vampire henchmen.
Subverting Dvalins vote is already a plan b; Hermods vote was meant to be the clincher. No reason to believe Hel didn't have a bunch of other plan b's in waiting.
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2019-05-05, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
And for that matter, destroying all the vampires and removing her ability to directly affect the plot won't mean she loses; she'll still win if the gods destroy the world later in response to Xykon and Redcloak's actions.
This is the answer to Roy's concern that he might be wrong to keep trying to save the world, at the Godsmoot: why he must not give up.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-05-05, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
YDRC. Whether "D" stands for "Do" or "Did" is an exercise for the reader.
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The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-05-05, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
I would like some backing for the bolded bit. To my knowledge neither D&D nor OotS covers where exactly the souls of 'normal' mortals come from. For all we know they could just form naturally in the positive energy plane or get stamped out as a blank template by each pantheon's god of birth/fertility to be shaped entirely by their upbringing.
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2019-05-05, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2018
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
The mortals are specifically created by the gods, being three quiddity beings and all. Presumably that also includes their souls, because why wouldn't it? Whether one god specifically makes them or it's a team effort doesn't matter much for Kish's ultimate point. At least, I don't think it does, if I'm reading them correctly.
I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish
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2019-05-05, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
In my reading, a soul occurs as naturally as a body, as if there were some sort of soul mitosis going on. Three-quiddity mortals propagate in order to generate the souls that the gods need but can't directly make by themselves. It is only in a very abstract sense that Durkon or his soul was created by the gods.
As to Kish's overall point, well, clearly I am just confused. I feel like the Monster in the Dark going "Gate? What gate?" (My next guess is that he means to say Hel's initial influence over Greg's mentality wasn't as significant as Hel makes it out to be. That's a matter of interpretation and, more importantly, only my confused guess.)This signature was written by me, Aveline, to indicate that this message was written by me, Aveline.
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2019-05-05, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-05-05 at 07:47 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-05-05, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
I feel like Rich said somewhere that one of Hel's obligations has to do with making vampire souls, or something to that effect. Given what we know of Odin and Thor's positions within the pantheon, I think it's more likely that if any of the Norse gods created Durkon's soul, it would likely be Frigg or Freya. They're the Earth and Fertility goddesses, after all.
Nitpicking aside, I agree with Kish's point.Last edited by Aspheric; 2019-05-05 at 07:06 PM.
feed the crows
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2019-05-05, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-05-05, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- A Michigan Far, Far Away
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
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2019-05-05, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-05-05, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- A Michigan Far, Far Away
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
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2019-05-05, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-05-05, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- A Michigan Far, Far Away
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Last edited by Darth Paul; 2019-05-05 at 11:49 PM.
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2019-05-06, 01:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.
I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
Want to see my prison tatoo?
*Branded for double posting*
Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
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2019-05-06, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2019-05-06, 04:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
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2019-05-06, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
The ones that most disappointed me are related to hyper-derailing topics. I'll leave it at: I'm not rabid as the most vocal detractors, but I think things could have been handled better on a few fronts with them.
Outside of those?
How Durkon beats the Vampire. Required the Order to fail in a scenario that was very unlikely for them to fail, the revelation about Hurak and the prophecy basically* went unused, and I'm not sure I really buy that the Vampire didn't have the knowledge necessary to make inferences to that degree. There was a lot of work put into that set-up, but my final reaction after a moment to calm down was just relief that "okay this vampire business is over" and not "that was an awesome triumph."
* Yes, it gets referenced in the afterlife. But it was presented as a thing that should have been earth-shatteringly important to the saving of Durkon and it's basically an after-thought that he could have discovered and handled later at no real detriment as long as it was before Redcloak.
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2019-05-06, 06:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
From that
They're vampires. This is what vampires are: a negative energy consciousness created in the shape of your own worst impulses, stuffed into your dead body to animate it.
Yes it was, though I did recall Roy observing "we really don't know what is going on."
Belkar breaks the fourth wall and observes the same when they see the water in the snarlgateLast edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-05-06 at 07:11 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2019-05-06, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow
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2019-05-06, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Sure, no problem with that.
It would even make sense that the whole plan we see is not even the mainplan, just a remote backup plan that she wants to use in case there just happens to be a tie.
Or that she just was able to predict the votes for whatever reasons (some examples listed here).
But we cant know or expect any of this at the time of the reveal. We didnt know that there have been countless worlds and probably votes already (which was a fantastic twist in my opinion. one of the best panels of all time, slowly scrolling down and seeing all those markers... brilliant).
There is no expection of the gods or specificall Hel being hyperintelligent. If anything they mostly seem kind of goofy and dumb. Hel falling for Lokis deal, none of the gods thinking of the consequences of the deal when ending the world (ending the world was no surprise for any of them since they did that countless times before, so they all had a long long time to think about that), Dvalin forgetting a simple "a vote doesnt count if it is the result of any kind of magical influence or otherwise not given freely" rule, Odin being insane most of the time, Thors automated prayer service, Thor being distracted in the middle of a battle by a prayer, Hel giving away her plan instead of claiming any other motive for her vote etc.
The consequence is that for me the reveal of her plan did not work as a twist. Because it does not really fit with what was known to that point. Not an "ah this makes sense now" moment, more like "this is supposed to be her plan? Why? How can this work?"
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2019-05-06, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Yeah, he really should have set up something to prevent that, like maybe a magic dispelling barrier that with armed guards inside as the voting place for casting a secret vote known only to people sequestered at the Godsmoot, which would require an incredibly unlikely and complex series of events (not to mention wholly unprecedented) to be able to circumvent.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-05-06, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Rather, I think you are vastly overplaying how much Hel weights "your dark spirit was born in my hall." She expects unquestioning obedience and total self-abnegation from everyone who serves her in any capacity: diseases, Garm, undead, the demigod of frost giants. She's just lucky where Greg is concerned that he's just as Lawful as Durkon, freely choosing to serve instead of telling her to go to herself as a Chaotic vampire might.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-05-06, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.
I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
Want to see my prison tatoo?
*Branded for double posting*
Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
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2019-05-06, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-05-06 at 08:33 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-05-06, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?
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