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Thread: Layers in RPGs
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2019-05-04, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Layers in RPGs
I decided to make this its own thread so as not to derail the other.
I mostly agree with this view that these (fiction/system/social) are three of the major layers. I'd describe the system layer differently. Instead of a "map" of the fiction layer, it's an interface between the other two layers. It lets us translate social layer things (which include, for me, all the real life things people do) into fiction layer things and vice versa. The difference, as I see it, is about the looseness of the fit.
I accept a lot of disconnection between system and fiction, just like I accept that a mouse/button click and a cast bar and enemy health bars in an MMO are not actually part of the game and aren't known to the character. They're aids for the user. To change the metaphor, I could hand-edit those XML files that are stored inside a Microsoft Word document and insert my changes that way. But that's a pain. I'd rather let a tool do it for me. In a similar way, I see the game system as a set of aids for the players to ease their load (compared to just doing everything free-form which is the default).
But mainly I wanted to bring this discussion into a broader audience.Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
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2019-05-04, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Layers in RPGs
I don't look at it as a set-in-stone theory that has to have hardline definitions and a bunch of debate about exactly where to draw the lines, for me it's simply a useful tool and useful shorthand to avoid typing out a paragraph every time I want to differentiate between system, setting and characters, player, interplayer, etc.
One could add a "player layer" to the example list I posted, if that helped.It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
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2019-05-04, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Layers in RPGs
Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
Rogue Equivalent Damage calculator, now prettier and more configurable!
5e Monster Data Sheet--vital statistics for all 693 MM, Volo's, and now MToF monsters: Updated!
NIH system 5e fork, very much WIP. Base github repo.
NIH System PDF Up to date main-branch build version.
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2019-05-04, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: Layers in RPGs
Most games have similar elements: game, players, strategies, actions, payoffs.
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2019-05-04, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Layers in RPGs
In this concept, I think it is useful to consider the 'System' as a model for the fiction, in the same way that an economist might create a model for the economy. Looked at this way, an adventure module is a script that is being run on the model in order to produce output fiction. Such modules may include material that is added manually to the system to the point of violating existing frameworks of the model (in a computerized model system this is done all the time, as a 'forcing' or other term). The contrast point here is a freeform game, which has no model at all and attempts to produce at the fiction level directly.
So if the system produces outputs that don't match the expectations at the fiction level, that generally means there's a problem with the model, but it could also mean there's a problem with the scripting because the people producing scripts may not understand how the model actually works. This actually happens a lot in D&D video games where you may run into encounters that are absurdly difficult without intending to be because the person doing the encounter designs clearly didn't realize how certain power interactions would work (like the Wild Hunt encounters at the end of Pathfinder: Kingmaker).
Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre
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2019-05-04, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Layers in RPGs
I don't generally demarcate out the social layer, mostly because it stands out so clearly. Clearly noting the difference between the fiction and the mechanics I do, and in my experience it's pretty standard. I know in the thread that spawned this one it was treated by at least one person as a novel and groundbreaking thing, but it seems both obvious and to have been clearly stated as a standard in a lot of places.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-05-05, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Layers in RPGs
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.