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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default AiME 5e looking for Toklien expert to check me

    I am just looking for any Tolkien experts to judge my campaign I'm going to run and make sure it's in good Tolkien-esque theme.

    Fo.A. 120 Mandos, Aule, and at the last moment Varda sent emissaries to Middle Earth as replacement Istari, their job is to keep the peace of Middle Earth, not as rulers and guards but as advisors like those before them. Varda added her emissary to the group to keep watch on the others. She suspects Mandos favors power too much and Aule may have plans for the dwarves that will lead to chaos and war.

    Their secret objective is to watch for the growth of the Dark Tree.

    Fo.A. 320: centuries after the War of the Ring, Middle Earth has been peaceful. But the dwarves of Moria were not so easily pleased with peace. They finally sought to retake their mithril mines. Led by <Dwarf PC> from the lineage of Dwalin a host of Dwarves March from Erebor towards the mines of Moria.

    Alarmed that the Dwarves taking Moria would push the goblins throughout the countryside and reignite darkness throughout Middle Earth and disrupt the peace, <Elvish PC> niece of Galadriel and new ruler of Loth Lorien has assembled a host of elves to intercept the Dwarves and discourage them from their foolish endeavor.

    A brief battle breaks out resulting in the death of Dwarves and elves.

    Meanwhile <Human PC>, great grand daughter of Aragorn has been hunting <potential solo Urukai PC> who is rumored to be setting himself up as a new dark lord. He has been making pacts with the goblins of Moria, the Wargs, the pale orcs and other dark remenants to unite under one dark banner, that of the Dark Tree.

    Eranduil, leader of the Istari has called for a council in Rivendale to settle the disputes between the Dwarves and the elves. There, <Istar of Aule>, argues on behalf of the dwarves stating that man and elves have always received favor while the creations of Aule have always been forgotten. Amid the chaos Olorin, no longer in the form of Gandalf (so that his past fame would not cloud the quality of his council), emerges with the grand daughter of Aragorn citing the evidence of the Dark Tree.

    With Eranduil doubting that darkness could have gained enough power to warrant a march against it, and the Istar of Aule all too eager to use this as evidence to clear out Moria, a scouting party is created of men, elves, and dwarves, led by Olorin to bring back unbiased reports of the coming darkness.

    Thus the Fellowship of the White Tree was formed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drache64 View Post
    I am just looking for any Tolkien experts to judge my campaign I'm going to run and make sure it's in good Tolkien-esque theme.

    Fo.A. 120 Mandos, Aule, and at the last moment Varda sent emissaries to Middle Earth as replacement Istari, their job is to keep the peace of Middle Earth, not as rulers and guards but as advisors like those before them. Varda added her emissary to the group to keep watch on the others. She suspects Mandos favors power too much and Aule may have plans for the dwarves that will lead to chaos and war.

    Their secret objective is to watch for the growth of the Dark Tree.

    Fo.A. 320: centuries after the War of the Ring, Middle Earth has been peaceful. But the dwarves of Moria were not so easily pleased with peace. They finally sought to retake their mithril mines. Led by <Dwarf PC> from the lineage of Dwalin a host of Dwarves March from Erebor towards the mines of Moria.

    Alarmed that the Dwarves taking Moria would push the goblins throughout the countryside and reignite darkness throughout Middle Earth and disrupt the peace, <Elvish PC> niece of Galadriel and new ruler of Loth Lorien has assembled a host of elves to intercept the Dwarves and discourage them from their foolish endeavor.

    A brief battle breaks out resulting in the death of Dwarves and elves.

    Meanwhile <Human PC>, great grand daughter of Aragorn has been hunting <potential solo Urukai PC> who is rumored to be setting himself up as a new dark lord. He has been making pacts with the goblins of Moria, the Wargs, the pale orcs and other dark remenants to unite under one dark banner, that of the Dark Tree.

    Eranduil, leader of the Istari has called for a council in Rivendale to settle the disputes between the Dwarves and the elves. There, <Istar of Aule>, argues on behalf of the dwarves stating that man and elves have always received favor while the creations of Aule have always been forgotten. Amid the chaos Olorin, no longer in the form of Gandalf (so that his past fame would not cloud the quality of his council), emerges with the grand daughter of Aragorn citing the evidence of the Dark Tree.

    With Eranduil doubting that darkness could have gained enough power to warrant a march against it, and the Istar of Aule all too eager to use this as evidence to clear out Moria, a scouting party is created of men, elves, and dwarves, led by Olorin to bring back unbiased reports of the coming darkness.

    Thus the Fellowship of the White Tree was formed.
    Well, since this is your world, you can do whatever you want, but if you want to stay within canon, there are a few problems...

    Mandos is VERY lawful and VERY loyal to his liege Manwë. He doesn't conspire, and he doesn't seek power. He is very centered in his job.

    Likewise,while Aulë favors dwarves, he wouldn't do anything that would lead to chaos or war. He is always opposed war, even if that meant leaving Morgoth alone, for fear to the damage war causes. Also, he is very loyal, and he wouldn't do anything against the will of his peers and liege. He didn't even help the Dwarves during the reign of Morgoth, choosing to obey the rules and stay out of Middle Earth.

    It would be weird for a Maia of Aulë to justify Dwarves spilling Elven blood because Elves were favoured ove Dwarves... Aulë is ever-grateful for Iluvatar even allowing Dwarves to exist, so even if his Maia may help Dwarves, he wouldn't phrase it that way...

    The most interventionist members of the Valar were Ulmo (didn't even live in Valinor, but in the bottom of the ocean; used his influence over water to pull strings now and then, whispering advice to elven and human princes, and lending them a bit of help... he basically is the architect behind the creation of the half-elven race and of Eärendil), Oromë (used to sneak out of Valinor to kill the worst monsters) and Tulkas (who always urged his peers to wage war against Morgoth...).

    I am not sure the Valar would send replacement Istari, since the only purpose of these was to oppose Sauron, and there isn't any similar threat now... Also, out of five Istari, three fell, only Gandalf and Ragadast remaining loyal, so I think the Valar would be cautious about sending another mission... Does the Dark Tree merit that risk?

    I don't think there is any Eldar left in Middle Earth by the year 320 of the Fourth Age, much less a niece of Galadriel. When Aragorn died, Arwen tried to find more Eldar, and she found none: She died alone in Lorien.

    The last among the Eldar would live in the ports of Balar, and the last among these to leave Middle Earth would be Cirdan the Shipwright. Arwen says to dying Aragorn that there are no more ships in Balar, and that she can't go to Valinor... so Cirdan left before Aragorn's death...

    There are Avari, Dark Elves left, but those are the Elves who know nothing about Valinor, and I don't think there are any of them in Middle Earth: All the Elves in the books are Eldar, or were assimilated by Eldar groups and adopted their culture, even the Wood Elves of the Mirkwood (these were a a mix of Sindar elves and Silvan elves both of them branches of the Teleri Eldar...).

    It has been speculated that the inhabitants of Dorwinion, an wine-making country close to the Sea of Rhûn were a mix of Avari elves and Edain humans...
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2019-05-09 at 05:22 PM.

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    Default Re: AiME 5e looking for Toklien expert to check me

    I would define a Tolkien 'expert' as one who has read his compiled notes and letters (various iterations of which can be found here) Since I haven't read any material past The Silmarillion, everything I say will be personal preference salted with an informed layman's understanding of Middle-Earth.

    From a strict purist's standpoint, what you have isn't bad. It's not wholly in accord with established lore, but since you didn't interpolate giant earth-boring worms or unbearable romance stories you should go ahead with what you wrote and have fun. However, I would take these established elements from the published works into consideration when fleshing out your premise:

    • The Black Numenoreans aren't gone. Aragorn conquers Umbar after taking the throne, but there are still powerful factions from bloodlines perhaps as ancient as his own out there. They will have gone into hiding after the defeat of Sauron but that doesn't mean they've forgotten the time when the world trembled before them.
    • Sauron isn't dead, nor is his master Melkor/Morgoth:

      Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf
      "If it is destroyed, then he will fall, and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning, and all that was made or begun with that power will crumble, and he will be maimed for ever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape. And so a great evil of this world will be removed."
      Quote Originally Posted by from Tolkien Gateway
      Morgoth remains in the Void, unable to return to Arda as long as the Valar maintain their power over it. Nevertheless, according to the Second Prophecy of Mandos, Morgoth will come back and attack Arda. He will fight a great battle, called the Dagor Dagorath, against the Valar and their allies, but will ultimately be slain by Túrin Turambar, the Man he cursed. By finally defeating Morgoth, Túrin will avenge not only himself, but all members of the race of Men, since Morgoth seduced them long ago. In other versions Eönwë is the one who will kill Morgoth for his love for Arien (previously named Urwendi), instead of Turin. This is said at the end of The Hiding of Valinor. Either way, the prophecy states that Melkor will bring great devastation to Arda, which will be remade into a greater form after his permanent defeat.

      I don't know what game system you are using, but these two would make excellent cooperating/competing D&D Warlock patrons . You could also have disorganized worship, cultist cells that might actually be in communion with these great evils, and all sorts of awful types more than willing to listen to whispers from the shadows. Remember also, that while Saruman was cast out the istari (and possibly rendered mortal before he was killed), he was an extremely powerful divine being at one time. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that a fragment of him survives as well, and might have a bone to pick with Sauron...
    • Shelob survived the fight with Sam, and after the fall of Sauron and the departure of the great Elf-Lords there isn't a comparable power in Middle-Earth to oppose her save for Tom Bombadill.
    • The Ents had been searching for the Entwives for millenia before the events of the Trilogy. What if they found them and new Entings were being born? They might want to reclaim some of ancient forest-lands that were cleared to build the farms and cities of Man.
    • There are still living dragons in the wastes of the far north, and some might decide that Smaug's former territory is ripe for the picking.
    • The Balrog of Moria is dead, but wasn't the last of his kind in Middle-Earth.
    • Now that he is gone, however, what's to stop some of the eldritch abominations living in the deeps from coming up to take a look around?

      Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf
      "Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day."


    More as they come to me.
    Last edited by oudeis; 2019-05-09 at 05:17 PM.

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    Warning: unmarked spoilers.

    First off, I believe that Legolas is the last elf to leave Middle Earth, and does so shortly after Aragorn dies. While there are others who never leave (e.g. cursed to never enter the undying lands), and Arwen who I believe dies a mortal's death in Lorien a few seasons past her husband's passing, they only come to about a handful of elves, who even a few centuries after the War of the Ring will be beginning to fade into wraith-like forms, and certainly not enough for an elvish settlement such as Imladris.

    Secondly, as has been said it's unlikely that new Istari were ever sent. Although this doesn't mean that no Maiar are wandering Middle-earth, they are unlikely to do so openly, and more likely to be pursuing personal agendas. However the only Istari that we can be certain of returning is Gandalf, Saruman is potentially trapped in spirit form and missing much of his power, Radagast is still distracted by all the animals and plants (although he might not believe his mission is over), and we know not of the two Blue Wizards. If any Maiar kicks something off in Middle-earth it's likely to be either the Blue Wizards or a Saruman who has somehow regained a physical body* and some of his power (at the very least his voice and knowledge).

    More to come as I think of more, but yeah, those are two pretty big things to consider.

    * From my understanding this is very unlikely, but possible, and wouldn't require the intervention of Eru. While Saruman's power was limited as an Istari and he lost a lot after being cast out of the order, it's possible that he has enough to take a new shape given time or have one bestowed on him by another Maiar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    I think the Valar most likely to meddle with Middle Earth is Ulmo, but he would do it subtly. Guy is a smooth operator, and his plans are long and complex...

    Spoiler: Ulmo the Chessmaster
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    Ulmo inspired the creation of the hidden Noldor cities of Gondolin and Nargothrond.
    He guided the human prince Tuor to Gondolin, where he married Turgon's daughter Idril and fathered Eärendil.
    He protected the survivors of the falls of both Gondolin and Doriath in the Havens of Sirion.
    He most probably inspired Tuor to try to reach Valinor, and probably helped Tuor and Idril to safely reach Valinor.
    He probably inspired Eärendil to become a sailor and to seek a path to Valinor.
    Ulmo saved Elwing, the grand daughter of Beren and Luthien, from the sack of the Havens of Sirion, allowing her to take a Silmaril, which allowed Eärendil to gain admittance to Valinor and plead for aid. Ulmo also defended them in the council from the potential wrath of Mandos.

    As a consequence of all those actions, the Valar decided to take action and send their armies to Middle Earth to defeat Morgoth...

    Also, do you know another human Ulmo helped?: Túrin Turumbar, whose mind he healed through the power the Pools of Ivrin, that carry the power of Ulmo. Túrin, raised in Doriath, lover of Finduilas, princess of Nargothrond, which he failed to rescue after the destruction of the city (see a pattern here? Noldor princes build secret cities, a human prince arrives, marries the princess, rescues her after the city is destroyed... only Túrin failed; otherwise he would have been just like Tuor...).

    Ulmo is the divine chessmaster of the Tolkien universe! He manipulated everybody so the Valar would defeat Morgoth and save Middle Earth (Ulmo never gave up on Middle Earth, he never wanted the Eldar to leave Middle Earth for Valinor... he always wanted Morgoth to be driven away form Middle Earth and for the Elves to stay there and help cleanse and restore it...).


    Yeah, the Blue Mages are the Maia-level characters most likely to start something, besides surviving Balrogs and maybe some ancient Dragon from the First Age, or maybe a corrupted Maia incarnated as an orc (it has been suggested that Azog may have been a Maia wearing an orcish skin...).
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2019-05-09 at 05:47 PM.

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    Thank you for all the notes everyone! I am making revisions as necessary!

    With Aluë I think it's possible Varda would be suspicious of yet another of his Maiar being sent to Middle Earth since his last two were Saruman and Sauron. Not a great track record. Now, he is innocent and loyal, his Maiar just haven't been.

    I think it's possible more emissaries would be sent from the Valar since they are still expecting a coming of the Dark Tree, I'm just going off this quote from the Tolkien Wiki

    "Dark Tree is an abstract term used by Tolkien in his fragment of a story "The New Shadow", (Part IV of The Peoples of Middle-earth).

    Dark Tree is a description of the growing threat of evil in Middle-earth - its roots can never be fully destroyed so that evil will once again arise if the 'tree' is left untended or unwatched. The term is used by Borlas in the The New Shadow in his conversation with Saelon."

    Still trying to figure out some of the other issues like elves.

    Artistic license will come into play, but I'm trying to keep everything within plausibility to some extent. The goal is to keep out of the "that would NEVER happen" realm and stay around the deep end of "probably not, but you know what, I can't say it's impossible"

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    Question about there being no elves left.

    Why does Wikipedia say this:
    There are many references in The Lord of the Rings to the continued existence of Elves in Middle-earth during the early years of the Fourth Age. Elladan and Elrohir, the sons of Elrond, do not accompany their father when the White Ship bearing the Ring-bearer and the chief Noldorin leaders sails from the Grey Havens to Valinor; they are said to have remained in Lindon for a time. Celeborn is said (in Appendix A) to have added most of southern Mirkwood to the realm of Lórien at the end of the Third Age, but elsewhere Tolkien wrote that Celeborn dwelt for a while in Lindon before at last leaving Middle-earth for Valinor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drache64 View Post
    Question about there being no elves left.

    Why does Wikipedia say this:
    There are many references in The Lord of the Rings to the continued existence of Elves in Middle-earth during the early years of the Fourth Age. Elladan and Elrohir, the sons of Elrond, do not accompany their father when the White Ship bearing the Ring-bearer and the chief Noldorin leaders sails from the Grey Havens to Valinor; they are said to have remained in Lindon for a time. Celeborn is said (in Appendix A) to have added most of southern Mirkwood to the realm of Lórien at the end of the Third Age, but elsewhere Tolkien wrote that Celeborn dwelt for a while in Lindon before at last leaving Middle-earth for Valinor.
    Tolkien revised his work many times.

    During Aragorn's reign Legolas brought some Silvan Elves to Ithilien, Celeborn and his vassals hunted evil creatures in Mirkwood, and Cirdan stayed in Lindon, building ships for the Eldar who slowly trickled there, so they could sail west.

    There is mention of Cirdan, Legolas, Elladan and Elrohir and Celeborn as being the last elves to leave for Valinor, but it is canon that, by the time Aragorn died, Lorien had been abandoned, almost every Eldar had left Middle Earth, and no more ships were left to take Luthien across the sea, even if she wanted to (with the possible exception of Legolas, who would build his own ship).

    The ones who remained behind afterwards were Avari with no or barely any contact with the Eldar (the Avari from Middle Earth had been assimilated by the Sindarin, Nandor and other Teleri Eldar branches, but many elves escaped eastward when Oromë approached them, and formed tribes who knew nothing about the Valar; some of these Avari, like Sorcerer-king Túvo, taught the first men before these arrived to Beleriand; a group of Avari lived in Dorwinion, close to Rhûn, and taught the men how to grow grapes and make wine).
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2019-05-11 at 01:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oudeis View Post
    From a strict purist's standpoint, what you have isn't bad. It's not wholly in accord with established lore, but since you didn't interpolate giant earth-boring worms or unbearable romance stories you should go ahead with what you wrote and have fun.
    Bilbo does actually mention "Were-worms" in The Hobbit novel:

    "Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

    That said, their inclusion in the Battle of the Five Armies in the movies, was a noticeable change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Bilbo does actually mention "Were-worms" in The Hobbit novel:

    "Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

    That said, their inclusion in the Battle of the Five Armies in the movies, was a noticeable change.
    Tolkien probably meant something like "Dragonmen", but we don't know what they were like, or even if they were real or just a myth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Bilbo does actually mention "Were-worms" in The Hobbit novel:

    "Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

    That said, their inclusion in the Battle of the Five Armies in the movies, was a noticeable change.
    Yeah, Tolkien was familiar enough in of English that he used 'worm' to mean 'serpent', which helps make sense of Wormtongue's name. Therefore were-worm is likely 'man-snake', although possibly not in the way that werewolf is 'man-wolf'.

    Bilbo during The Hobbit isn't exactly the most knowledgeable person either, he's probably heard legends of snake men but that doesn't mean they actually exist in Middle-earth.

    For the record the Jackson movies take pretty big liberties even all the way back to Fellowship (the escape from the Shire is butchered and removes the establishing of Merry as a relatively experienced traveler just for starters). Also, what is plate armour doing in there*? It's just that pre-Hobbit they were much more about streamlining.

    * This is a big bugbear of took mine, I like mail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Also, what is plate armour doing in there*?

    * This is a big bugbear of took mine, I like mail.
    I can believe that Prince Imrahil and his knights, at least, were wearing armour with some plate components:


    ‘I deem she yet lives.’ And he held the bright-burnished vambrace that was upon his arm before her cold lips, and behold! a little mist was laid on it hardly to be seen.

    The "it was polished leather" arguments don't sound very convincing to me. "Burnished" and "leather" don't really go together.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-05-11 at 03:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I can believe that Prince Imrahil and his knights, at least, were wearing armour with some plate components:


    ‘I deem she yet lives.’ And he held the bright-burnished vambrace that was upon his arm before her cold lips, and behold! a little mist was laid on it hardly to be seen.

    The "it was polished leather" arguments don't sound very convincing to me. "Burnished" and "leather" don't really go together.
    Plate components, espcially on the noble characters, I'd easily believe, but I don't like how either Theoden's armour or the armour of the men of Minas Tirith is presented. It's essentially full plate in Theoden's case, whereas I got the impression that he was meant to be an Anglo-Saxon king (except not really).

    So yeah, breastplates I could handle, plate vambraces and greaves I can handle, but not any more except on the nobility of Gondor (and even then I'd be iffy), and certainly not for the standard men-at-arms. It was also strange rewatching the films and noticing that Theoden's armour is vastly different to even what Eomer wears (and speaking of Eomer, what was wrong with Erkenbrand? He takes about one sentence to set up and allows Eomer to be an actual character).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    I believe Galadriel was the last Calaquendë to leave middle-earth, and the rest of the Eldar left soon after in canon. But that doesn’t mean you can’t say that a very few stayed. Sometimes there are exceptions that make the story more interesting. But you probably be fine having the elf PC be Avari. The ruler of a whole group of Eldar just doesn’t make sense.

    If your player wants a noble elf character and not a wild one, maybe point them towards a half-elf relative of Prince Imrahil?
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    Imagine a world where a coming of age ceremony involves killing your son five times over. Fun as hell, ain't it?
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    Who escapes pain and trouble?
    Who escapes from beginning to end, happy?
    Sorrows either are here now or are coming.
    Time and the gods unfailingly bring them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulsutyr View Post
    I believe Galadriel was the last Calaquendë to leave middle-earth, and the rest of the Eldar left soon after in canon. But that doesn’t mean you can’t say that a very few stayed. Sometimes there are exceptions that make the story more interesting. But you probably be fine having the elf PC be Avari. The ruler of a whole group of Eldar just doesn’t make sense.

    If your player wants a noble elf character and not a wild one, maybe point them towards a half-elf relative of Prince Imrahil?
    I was doing some study on Avari and I think there is enough open ground with artistic license to say the Avari took over the realms left by the Eldar. They could even think of themselves as the new Eldar.

    So a player could choose to play any of the available elf cultures and reap the benefits of the game stats, but tongue in cheek they are actually of Avari lineage.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Talakeal's Avatar

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    Default Re: AiME 5e looking for Toklien expert to check me

    This game looks fine, and I would love to play in it.

    The only thing that bugs me, personally, is having elves still living in Lorien as it was pretty explicit that destroying the one ring would also mean the end of that realm, but having some of the elves from Lorien relocating elsewhere would be fine.


    You won't get every detail right, but you don't need to. Unless your players are super uptight Tolkien fans they won't notice, and if they are you won't please them. In my experience the Tolkien fandom is one of the most hostile towards "expanded universe" fiction and are very eager to shout down things as not being cannon, even things that actually appear in the books!
    Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Clistenes's Avatar

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    Default Re: AiME 5e looking for Toklien expert to check me

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    The only thing that bugs me, personally, is having elves still living in Lorien as it was pretty explicit that destroying the one ring would also mean the end of that realm, but having some of the elves from Lorien relocating elsewhere would be fine.
    The main effect of Galadriel's ring Nenya over Lorien was 1.-defensive effects that prevented Sauron's servants from entering it, and 2.-it manipulated the flow of time in a way that everything aged at a very slow rate, so elves could enjoy the things they liked for a longer time...

    The loss of the power of Nenya would mean that the defenses of Lorien would be weakened (not such a big problem once Sauron was out of the picture... Thranduil managed to defend his kingdom within Mirkwood just fine with just arrows and "normal" elven magic...

    The main issue would be the loss of the preserving properties of the ring. Lorien wouldn't be destroyed overnight, but it would become a normal forest, and things would change, age and die at a normal rate. Many elves left for Tol Eressëa asap rather than watch everything they had become attached to get old and die; others chose to stay behind a bit longer and enjoy the little time the stuff they liked had left...

    Anyways, there would be no point for the elves to relocate from Lorien to somewhere else in Middle Earth... It's not as if Lorien disappeared, it's just that they were unwilling to see it die due to the normal action of both history and entropy... And if they moved somewhere else within Middle Earth, they would have to face the same issue, no point doing that...
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2019-05-12 at 06:52 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: AiME 5e looking for Toklien expert to check me

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    The main effect of Galadriel's ring Nenya over Lorien was 1.-defensive effects that prevented Sauron's servants from entering it, and 2.-it manipulated the flow of time in a way that everything aged at a very slow rate, so elves could enjoy the things they liked for a longer time...

    The loss of the power of Nenya would mean that the defenses of Lorien would be weakened (not such a big problem once Sauron was out of the picture... Thranduil managed to defend his kingdom within Mirkwood just fine with just arrows and "normal" elven magic...

    The main issue would be the loss of the preserving properties of the ring. Lorien wouldn't be destroyed overnight, but it would become a normal forest, and things would change, age and die at a normal rate. Many elves left for Tol Eressëa asap rather than watch everything they had become attached to get old and die; others chose to stay behind a bit longer and enjoy the little time the stuff they liked had left...

    Anyways, there would be no point for the elves to relocate from Lorien to somewhere else in Middle Earth... It's not as if Lorien disappeared, it's just that they were unwilling to see it die due to the normal action of both history and entropy... And if they moved somewhere else within Middle Earth, they would have to face the same issue, no point doing that...
    Especially if the new elves there were actually Avari usurpers...

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