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2007-10-04, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Races with Negative Level Adjustments
Are there any races with negative level adjustments?
I'm talking the dodo's, the I-have-an-arts-degree, the extinction-is-right-around-the-corner type races who has so few attributes and perks that they cannot measure up to standard races?
I would really like such a race. I like an underdog story.
I realize this might cause issues for caster types (getting spells early) but perhaps 'caster level' could be nerfed as well to lower DC's?
Has anyone seen a race with negative level adjustments?
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2007-10-04, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Covington, KY
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Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
Originally Posted by Dervag
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2007-10-04, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Singapore
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
I don't think it could be made to work. The thing is, almost every class in the game aside from Fighters are balanced on the assumption that there are certain abilities the players get at certain points. Giving an ability like regeneration or flight or high DR early is overwhelming beyond what anything can balance out--this is part of the reason why LA exists in the first place.
On top of this, there is the problem many people have with flaws--players can choose a penalty that their build can compensate for, then use the extra bonus they get in exchange for something that will increase in power exponentally with their other abilities as they progress.
There simply isn't any way to balance it. I'm curious--what penalties do you think would be worth giving a player an entire additional level?
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2007-10-04, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
These sort of exist, but only as far as NPCs are concerned. The closest races are Goblins and Kobolds with NPC levels. Kobolds need 4 levels of an NPC class to get a CR of 1 and Goblins need 3 NPC class levels to get CR 1.
Problem is, they don't work like that for PCs (kobolds are considered 'balanced' compared to humans as far as PCs are concerned, but not NPCs).
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2007-10-04, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
It's reasonable if you give them e.g. ability score penalties, or an abysmal movement rate, or something like that. But it needs to be thought out carefully, because e.g. -4 to strength is irrelevant if you're playing a wizard.
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2007-10-04, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Washington, DC
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Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
No.
And as you intelligently noticed and pointed out, it would be a horrible idea to have one, because of the way caster progression works. For example, let's say that we have a race that is -2 to every stat with no racial abilities, and it provides -1 LA. Such a race would be perfect for Wizards, who would lose a point or two off of their spell DCs, but would gain a higher level of spellcasting, more spells, better powers, etc.
If you want to play a nerfed race, play one with HIGH LA. High LA races are almost always a ripoff, because a player with just strait class levels and the same ECL is almost always more powerful.
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2007-10-04, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
I'm pretty sure that to make a negative LA race balanced, it would need racial hit dice.
I don't think that combination exists anywhere.
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2007-10-04, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Italy
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Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
Incarned Construct, Savage Species. (is it right? I never read that manual in English, so...). I think the example has 5 HD and -2 LA.
Useless arcane powers are better than no arcane powers!
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2007-10-04, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
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2007-10-04, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
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2007-10-04, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
The following passage from DnD3.5Index-Races Crystal Keep got me wanting to know if it was a typo
Xvart
(DR339 p64)
+2 Dex
–2 Str
–2 Con
Fighter • Small Size
• 30’ Movement
• Darkvision 60’
• +2 Racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
• Humanoid (xvart)
• Speak with Animals (rates & bats only), 1/day. Works
with the Dire version of the indicated creatures.
• Level Adjustment –2
Nothing about this race screams +2 level adjustment to me...so I was thinking -2 must be correct or completely misplaced. Also, it is listed in 2 different places as -2. I, however, believe this would be horribly overpowered if given 2 class levels for free......and then some for a caster.
If Xvart exist so must others. Or at least the mechanics might be workable. Perhaps limiting the extra levels to favoured class by the race?
Very curious.Last edited by Benejeseret; 2007-10-04 at 11:52 AM.
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2007-10-04, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
Well, as I noted earlier, it wouldn't be overpowered so long as RHD exceeded LA; you'd basically be getting RHD for free rather than class levels, and even the strongest RHD is comparable to a weak PC class.
That humanoid race doesn't look like it has RHD, though... hmm. That construct template added +5 RHD and then -2 LA, so it was basically +3 RHD and 2 RHD for free. (Edit: Which is probably what more high-RHD templates should be like, if you ask me)Last edited by Indon; 2007-10-04 at 11:55 AM.
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2007-10-04, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Manila, PH
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Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
My mother says: those on fire should roll.
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2007-10-04, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2007-10-04, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
I was going to mention that there is a creature in the crystal keeps index with a minus level adjustment...but I beleive it's a typo. And it's already mentioned.
If you want an underdog, take maybe a mongrelfolk? They may be balenced, but most races tend to look down on them if they know what they are. And if you want, just asign horrid stats if you must.For the last time, it stands for Shadow of Darkness!
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2007-10-04, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Manila, PH
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2007-10-04, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- 3 inches from yesterday
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Re: Races with Negative Level Adjustments
There is a template, but I can't remember the name, that has a -1 LA. It's not meant to be used with a non-LA race though.
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