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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    I've created a Paladin oath for a homebrew campaign setting I'm intending to run. I'm aware that it's a pretty terrible subclass in a low-magic setting, but aside from that, I'm looking for feedback and constructive criticism, especially in terms of balancing, just in case I've over- or under-powered abilities. Let me know what you think!

    Oath of the Witch Hunter

    The Witch Hunters are an elite order of knights, working with and sometimes above the law of the land. They have dedicated themselves to stopping those who would use magic for evil and slaying the foul creations of evil mages. Witch Hunters constantly seek to learn new magical secrets and to keep those secrets from falling into the wrong hands; given their own way, they would be the only ones allowed to practice magic, as they cannot be sure who will be corrupted by its dark allure.

    Tenets of the Witch Hunter

    The rules of the Witch Hunters are strict and clear, a paladin who breaks these tenets will shortly see themselves kicked from the organisation.

    Ever Vigilant. Evildoers are everywhere and will never rest, you must be ever alert for deception and villainy.

    Know Your Enemy. The arcane arts are complex and varied, only through study and research can you hope to stand against them.

    Protect the Natural. Do not let the destructive nature of magic tear apart the natural world or its denizens, be their shield.

    Never Falter. Temptation and trickery are around every corner, stick to your code no matter what.

    Channel Divinity
    When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options.

    Arcane Ward. As an action, you can use your Channel Divinity to call forth magical warding on your body. You have advantage on all saving throws against spells and other magical effects. Additionally, when you make a saving throw against a spell to take only half damage, you instead take no damage on a success. These effects last for 1 minute or until you become unconscious.

    Draw the Fire. As an action, you can use your Channel Divinity to force an enemy to focus on you. A creature of your choice that you can see within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw, on a failed save it cannot target creatures other than you with spells or attack rolls. The creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success.

    Oath Spells
    You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed

    Oath of the Witch Hunter Spells

    Paladin Level Spells

    3rd Detect Magic, Identify

    5th Silence, Zone of Truth

    9th Counterspell, Dispel Magic

    13th Banishment, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere

    17th Legend Lore, Scrying

    Aura of Warding
    Beginning at 7th level, your time spent dealing with magic has caused a permanent ward to form around you. You and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you have resistance to damage from spells. At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

    Spell Absorption
    Beginning at 15th level, you have mastered the manipulation of arcane energy and can now absorb pure magic. Whenever you end a spell with Counterspell or Dispel Magic, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal 2 x the level of the spell.

    Hero of the Mundane
    At 20th level, you have become the ultimate shield against magic. As an action, you summon forth great radiant power into your body, causing your eyes to glow brightly and radiant mist to emanate from you, this transformation lasts for 1 minute. While transformed in this way, you gain the following benefits:

    You may cast Counterspell as a 3rd level spell without expending any spell slots or material components.
    You automatically succeed on saving throws against spells or magical effects.
    Hostile creatures within 30 feet of you cannot teleport or turn invisible.
    Last edited by Scorpiomoth; 2019-05-10 at 07:20 PM. Reason: No responses to post, trying to make title catchier

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    The capstone feels TOO good. Rest of it looks fine.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    The capstone feels TOO good. Rest of it looks fine.
    What would you say is too good about it? It was one of the oarts I was least sure on so some more info would be great.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    The ability to automatically succeed on probably at least HALF the saves you take, and the ability to Counterspell every turn at no cost.

    The no teleport and no invisibility is fine.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    The ability to automatically succeed on probably at least HALF the saves you take, and the ability to Counterspell every turn at no cost.

    The no teleport and no invisibility is fine.
    Do you think just removing the counterspell will be balanced enough, or should I try and come up with something different entirely?

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    Considering changing the level 20 ability to have the following features instead of what is written in the original:

    • Hostile creatures within 30 feet of you cannot teleport or become invisible. When you activate this ability, all creatures within 30 feet of you that are invisible become visible and any illusions within 30 feet of you are dispelled.

    • Whenever a creature casts a spell that targets you, you may have them make a Wisdom saving throw against your Spell Save DC. On a failed save, the spell fails.

    • Whenever you cause a spell to fail with Counterspell, the creature casting the spell takes psychic damage equal to 1d10 x the level of the soell slot used to cast Counterspell.

    I should also clarify that this ability can only be used once per long rest.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    That looks much better.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    Maybe I've been a DM for too long, but if I saw one of these coming to my campaign, the words that would scare me the most are "and magic effects". A lot of classic D&D monsters use "and magic effects" which this guy can block with a ward that can't be dispelled and does not require Concentration. Plus, this isn't 3rd Edition, I don't have a running list of which monster attacks are "and magic effects" although I suspect that's most of them. And Advantage on their already strong Wis/Cha saves means there's little to no risk of failing.

    I get that you're trying to mix up the Rock Fighter/Scissors Rogue/Paper Mage up, and I like the flavor. We've seen it before, and it would be a good part of atmosphere building. But it could lead to a lot of unexpected encounters being trivialized. And I'm shuddering at the thought of one of these guys taking Proficient in Dex saves, which even assuming a Dex of 10, bless spell and ring of protection, means a 7th level such paladin will make the DC 18 save of adult black dragon breath (CR 14 and way above his pay grade) 70% of the time, taking no damage. His buddy, a 7th level rogue with the same bless and ring but a Dex of 18 makes the save less often. To use an even funnier example, such a paladin could tank the Death Throes of a Balor at point-blank range with a 57.75% chance of taking zero damage, while the rogue has a literal 50/50 shot.

    Is there any chance I can persuade you to scrub "and magic effects", or make at least make it more specific? I'm just worried that this archetype's intended use doesn't become a massive unintended headache.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage-slaying Paladin oath

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Maybe I've been a DM for too long, but if I saw one of these coming to my campaign, the words that would scare me the most are "and magic effects". A lot of classic D&D monsters use "and magic effects" which this guy can block with a ward that can't be dispelled and does not require Concentration. Plus, this isn't 3rd Edition, I don't have a running list of which monster attacks are "and magic effects" although I suspect that's most of them. And Advantage on their already strong Wis/Cha saves means there's little to no risk of failing.

    I get that you're trying to mix up the Rock Fighter/Scissors Rogue/Paper Mage up, and I like the flavor. We've seen it before, and it would be a good part of atmosphere building. But it could lead to a lot of unexpected encounters being trivialized. And I'm shuddering at the thought of one of these guys taking Proficient in Dex saves, which even assuming a Dex of 10, bless spell and ring of protection, means a 7th level such paladin will make the DC 18 save of adult black dragon breath (CR 14 and way above his pay grade) 70% of the time, taking no damage. His buddy, a 7th level rogue with the same bless and ring but a Dex of 18 makes the save less often. To use an even funnier example, such a paladin could tank the Death Throes of a Balor at point-blank range with a 57.75% chance of taking zero damage, while the rogue has a literal 50/50 shot.

    Is there any chance I can persuade you to scrub "and magic effects", or make at least make it more specific? I'm just worried that this archetype's intended use doesn't become a massive unintended headache.
    I wasn't sure what the definition of 'magical effects' was completely, but it was a term used throughout the monster manual on the 'magic resistance' feat, which this ability is based on. I have now looked up and found a clarification here http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat...-february-2016

    "our game makes a distinction between two types of magic:

    the background magic that is part of the D&D multiverse’s physics and the physiology of many D&D creaturesthe concentrated magical energy that is contained in a magic item or channeled to create a spell or other focused magical effect

    In D&D, the first type of magic is part of nature. It is no more dispellable than the wind. A monster like a dragon exists because of that magic-enhanced nature. The second type of magic is what the rules are concerned about. When a rule refers to something being magical, it’s referring to that second type. Determining whether a game feature is magical is straightforward. Ask yourself these questions about the feature:

    Is it a magic item?Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?Is it a spell attack?Does its description say it’s magical?

    If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical."

    I agree that the game should probably make things clearer but magical effects are a distinct part of it.

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