Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #35: 3/2 Score And Four Threads Ago

[Bartmanhomer]

Q 662

How do the Sense Motive and Bluff skill check work?

[Thurbane]

Q 662

How do the Sense Motive and Bluff skill check work?

Wrong number, and also well outside the scope of this thread.

I suggest you read the skills section of the PHB/SRD, and if you have specific, simple question(s), post here; otherwise start a new topic for discussion.

[KillianHawkeye]

Q 662 666

How do the Sense Motive and Bluff skill check work?

Wrong number, and also well outside the scope of this thread.

I suggest you read the skills section of the PHB/SRD, and if you have specific, simple question(s), post here; otherwise start a new topic for discussion.

A 666

The simple answer is that a person who wants to deceive another person rolls their Bluff skill against the Sense Motive skill of anyone who can hear and understand them. The DM can assign modifiers to this check based on how believable the lie seems to be (see the table under the description of the Bluff skill).

This is an opposed skill check. That means that the DC for the task is set by the checks of the opposing parties. Anyone who rolls a higher Sense Motive than the liar's Bluff check isn't fooled, but anyone who rolls lower is. In the case of a tie, the winner is whoever has the higher modifier to their skill check. In the case that the modifiers are also equal, roll again to determine the result.

[Thurbane]

Re-posts for a new page:

Q 658

Does the use of Quori Dread feat require an intimidate check? It uses "demoralise" in the text, but it does not appear to tie that to the use of Intimidate?

Q 659

Out of curiosity, how would a changeling with Persona Immersion interact with some sort of thought-reading effect if they were immune to mind-affecting effects? Is it treated as an automatically successful save, allowing the changeling to use their feat, or does the effect fizzle entirely?

I suppose another way to phrase this would be:

Do you still roll a saving throw against effects you are immune to? Naturally you'd suffer no consequences on a failed save, but I'm having a hard time finding a rule on this issue.

Q 662

Spellguard of Silverymoon (PGtF) gets the ability at 4th level to share certain personal only spells with other, by a touch.

Q 662 a). Would Tenser's Transformation be an eligible spell for the Spellguard ability? It needs to be a spell "that improves AC, increases a saving throw modifier, or grants additional hit points".

Q 662 b). If yes, does an unwilling target get some kind of save? No save is listed in the spell description. The recipient of the spell loses all spellcasting ability for the duration.

Q 663
If you have Improved Energy Drain do multiple applications of energy drain trigger the feat and cause it to stack bonuses?

Q 664

Is a monster or familiar a valid target of the Psychic Reformation power? For instance, could it be used to swap out the Dodge feat on an Imp? The use of the word level in the power makes me think no.

Q 664b

Same question, but what about if Monster Classes (SS) or Savage Progressions are in play?

[Doctor Despair]

Q667

Casters get bonus spell slots based on their ability scores. There are explicit lines of text that prohibit using these slots to cast higher level spells early, but can you prepare lower leveled spells in those higher level bonus spell slots?

For example: could a level 1 wizard with 18 intelligence use a bonus level 4 spellslot to prepare a level 1 spell?

[Khedrac]

A667 No - you don't have the slot until you can cast spells of that level. Once you do have spell slots of the level you can then prepare lower level spells in them.

Note: "Can cast" here means that the class grants spells of the level in question, a character with too low a casting stat still gets the slots though they cannot cast the spells.

[Doctor Despair]

A667 No - you don't have the slot until you can cast spells of that level. Once you do have spell slots of the level you can then prepare lower level spells in them.

Note: "Can cast" here means that the class grants spells of the level in question, a character with too low a casting stat still gets the slots though they cannot cast the spells.

Is there a relevant passage I can refer to here? That's how I always understood the rules, but someone else interpreted the rules as I described in the question, and I'm trying to offer RAW as to why it does not work that way.

[Thurbane]

Q 658

Does the use of Quori Dread feat require an intimidate check? It uses "demoralise" in the text, but it does not appear to tie that to the use of Intimidate?

A 658

Despite using the defined game term "demoralise", I see no reference to the Intimidate skill in the feat. I personally think it's fairly safe to assume the word was meant in its common usage, rather than as a game term, so therefore no Intimidate check required.

Q 663
If you have Improved Energy Drain do multiple applications of energy drain trigger the feat and cause it to stack bonuses?

A 663

The general rule for bonuses and stacking is that multiple bonuses from the same source (i.e. the feat) don't stack unless explicitly otherwise noted, so in answer to your question - no.

However, the bonuses from the feat seem to be untyped, and would freely stack with similar bonuses, typed or untyped, from sources other than the feat.

[Bartmanhomer]

Q 668

How does Spell Resistance work?

[Twurps]

Q 668

How does Spell Resistance work?

A 668
To affect a creature that has spell resistance with a spell that is subject to spell resistance a caster needs to make a caster-level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance.

A spell is subject to spell resistance if it has 'Spell Resistance: Yes' in it's description.

[Khedrac]

A 668

SPELL RESISTANCE

Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. (Some spells also grant spell resistance.)

To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance. (The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks.) If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn’t affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate.

Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not. A creature can have some abilities that are subject to spell resistance and some that are not. Even some spells ignore spell resistance; see When Spell Resistance Applies, below.

A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creatureÂ’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.

A creature with spell resistance cannot impart this power to others by touching them or standing in their midst. Only the rarest of creatures and a few magic items have the ability to bestow spell resistance upon another.

Spell resistance does not stack. It overlaps.

When Spell Resistance Applies

Each spell includes an entry that indicates whether spell resistance applies to the spell. In general, whether spell resistance applies depends on what the spell does:

Targeted Spells: Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature. Some individually targeted spells can be directed at several creatures simultaneously. In such cases, a creature’s spell resistance applies only to the portion of the spell actually targeted at that creature. If several different resistant creatures are subjected to such a spell, each checks its spell resistance separately.

Area Spells: Spell resistance applies if the resistant creature is within the spell’s area. It protects the resistant creature without affecting the spell itself.

Effect Spells: Most effect spells summon or create something and are not subject to spell resistance. Sometimes, however, spell resistance applies to effect spells, usually to those that act upon a creature more or less directly, such as web.

Spell resistance can protect a creature from a spell that’s already been cast. Check spell resistance when the creature is first affected by the spell.

Check spell resistance only once for any particular casting of a spell or use of a spell-like ability. If spell resistance fails the first time, it fails each time the creature encounters that same casting of the spell. Likewise, if the spell resistance succeeds the first time, it always succeeds. If the creature has voluntarily lowered its spell resistance and is then subjected to a spell, the creature still has a single chance to resist that spell later, when its spell resistance is up.

Spell resistance has no effect unless the energy created or released by the spell actually goes to work on the resistant creature’s mind or body. If the spell acts on anything else and the creature is affected as a consequence, no roll is required. Creatures can be harmed by a spell without being directly affected.

Spell resistance does not apply if an effect fools the creature’s senses or reveals something about the creature.

Magic actually has to be working for spell resistance to apply. Spells that have instantaneous durations but lasting results aren’t subject to spell resistance unless the resistant creature is exposed to the spell the instant it is cast.

So, to summarise:
If a character casts a spell that is subject to Spell Resistance against a creature that has Spell Resistance (the amount should be printed in the creature's stat block if it has SR) then the caster has to make a caster level check to affect the creature - if they fail to equal or beat the creature's SR then the spell does not affect the creature.
If one spell has the potential to affect more than one creature with SR then multiple checks must be made.

And yes, you do get odd effects where a spell completely fills an area with rubble, but doesn't affect the creature in the middle. In this case, the creature avoids any direct effects form the spell dropping on them, but doe have to find a way to bypass the rubble to move.

[bean illus]

Question 669
Does Deepwood Sniper's ability stack with the magic weapon spell? Why/not?

It says ... Magic Weapon (Sp): At 2nd level, the character can produce an effect identical to that of a magic weapon spell cast by a cleric

[KillianHawkeye]

A 669 No.

Two reasons. First, a spell like magic weapon will not stack with itself if you have more than one on your weapon, because it's the same effect. Even if one is a spell and the other is a spell-like ability.

Second, more generally, the spell provides an enhancement bonus to your weapon's attack and damage rolls, and enhancement bonuses never stack even if they were from totally different effects.

[Jowgen]

Q 670

A creature with 4 arms and 4 corresponding claw attacks takes the Multiweapon attack feat.

It is given weapons for each hand that still leave said hand free for stuff like manipulating items.

If this creature full attacks, does it give up its claw attacks for the Multiweapon attack off-hand attacks, or does it get to make the claw attacks as secondary attacks, and where does it specify this one way or the other?

[St Fan]

Q 671

The Wyrm Wizard prestige class has an ability (named "Spell Research") that allow you, every even-numbered level, to (I quote)...

"select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells), of a level equal to or lower than the highest-level arcane spell you can prepare and cast. You can add this spell to your arcane spellcasting class spell list as a spell of the same level;"

The Recaster prestige class has a very similar ability (named "Expanded Knowledge"), just with a limitation of 1 level lower than the highest you can cast.

The Unseen Seer is another prestige class with a similar ability (named "Advanced Learning"), this time with a limitation to Divination spells.

It's clear these all of these abilities add to your spell list. However, they say nothing about your wizard spellbook (despite the first two prestige classes clearly meant for prepared arcane casters).

Are you automatically allowed to add this new spell to your spellbook? Do you have to pay the normal price for inscribing a spell of this level, or is it free (like the two spells wizards automatically gain each level)?

[Troacctid]

Q 671

The Wyrm Wizard prestige class has an ability (named "Spell Research") that allow you, every even-numbered level, to (I quote)...

"select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells), of a level equal to or lower than the highest-level arcane spell you can prepare and cast. You can add this spell to your arcane spellcasting class spell list as a spell of the same level;"

The Recaster prestige class has a very similar ability (named "Expanded Knowledge"), just with a limitation of 1 level lower than the highest you can cast.

The Unseen Seer is another prestige class with a similar ability (named "Advanced Learning"), this time with a limitation to Divination spells.

It's clear these all of these abilities add to your spell list. However, they say nothing about your wizard spellbook (despite the first two prestige classes clearly meant for prepared arcane casters).

Do you are automatically allowed to add this new spell to your spellbook? Do you have to pay the normal price for inscribing a spell of this level, or is it free (like the two spells wizards automatically gain each level)?

If it adds the spell to your spells known, the ability will say so.

Q 670

A creature with 4 arms and 4 corresponding claw attacks takes the Multiweapon attack feat.

It is given weapons for each hand that still leave said hand free for stuff like manipulating items.

If this creature full attacks, does it give up its claw attacks for the Multiweapon attack off-hand attacks, or does it get to make the claw attacks as secondary attacks, and where does it specify this one way or the other?

This is specified in the monster's entry, usually under its full attack. If it's a custom monster, the DM gets to decide; the usual convention followed by most statblocks is that you can make no more than one attack per limb, but there is no hard-and-fast general rule.

Q 664

Is a monster or familiar a valid target of the Psychic Reformation power? For instance, could it be used to swap out the Dodge feat on an Imp? The use of the word level in the power makes me think no.

Q 664b

Same question, but what about if Monster Classes (SS) or Savage Progressions are in play?

It works fine in both scenarios—provided the monster has xp to spend, which is not always the case.

[Thurbane]

Q 672

Bit of a convoluted one, sorry.

Would the Magical Training feat (PGtF), taking the sorcerer option and selecting Resistance as one of your spells known, combined with the Versatile Spellcaster feat (RoTD) and Heighten Spell feat, allow you to meet the Spellcasting requirement for the Abjurant Champion PrC (CM)?

Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including at least one abjuration spell.

[Saintheart]

A 672

This is probably one for the forum proper, because from what I can tell the Heighten Spell trick for PrC casting qualification is always hotly contested whenever the question's been asked.

By RAW, my answer would be no via Versatile Spellcaster; maybe to no via Heighten Spell.

Rationale being: Versatile Spellcaster only allows you to turn two 0 level slots into a 1st level spell that you know.

Magical Training, taking the sorcerer option, only grants you two level 0 spells as known. It grants no 1st level spells as spells known. You might be treated as a 1st level caster for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast, but that does not extend to knowing 1st level spells.

The wizard path, though, might be able to pull this off since it gives you a spellbook.


There is, however, the question whether you can just pull this off with Heighten Spell + Magical Training. A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level.

Thus, a 0 level spell, heightened, might be a 1st level spell and thus satisfy the 1st level spell requirements. This rests on the phrase "Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies" meaning that it becomes a 1st level spell in all respects, including for PrC qualification purposes. The problem or objection lies on the fact that the subsequent line suggests very strongly that Heighten Spell only raises the level for any effect that depends on spell level. A spell's level is not in itself an effect; accordingly, a Heightened 0 level spell is still a 0 level spell.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, sorry, thought it might be a bit too complex for this thread.

Well, in for a penny, in for a pound:

Q 672b

Same as 672, but instead of Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten, what about Resistance cast with Sanctum Spell metamagic? Would that meet the casting reqs for Abjurant Champion?

[Saintheart]

A 672 b

Again, probably needs adjudication in the open forum, but my RAW stab would be maybe.

It still rests on whether "effective level" in relation to a spell is enough to say that it is a level 1 spell for the purposes of PrC qualification. That question is completely open to the DM. Sanctum Spell uses "effective level" throughout its entry, similar to Heighten Spell.

On top of that, it's debatable whether your Abjurant Champion features would then function anywhere outside your sanctum, since your ability to cast level 1 spells only exists while inside your sanctum.

[nedz]

A 604

From a strictly RAW reading, yes. It lacks the "other than secret languages such as Druidic" clause that is present on Humans and other races in their racial traits sections.

It was not addressed in errata, either.

Side note: Dvati, also in Dragon Compendium, share this trait.

So this explains the great Druid-Tibbit war.

Q673
Looking at a Cleric with the Spell domain, and specifically the 3rd level spell Anyspell.
This allows the Cleric to learn any Wizard spell from a spellbook (or Scroll).

Is there anyway a Cleric can write a spell they have prepared into a spell-book ?

In core this seems to be a Wizard only ability, though several other classes can do this beyond core, these do not seem to include Cleric.

Most deities which offer the Spell domain also offer the Magic domain. It is unclear whether having the Magic domain would allow this ?

[nedz]

Q674
I'm pretty sure that figments are immune to energy effects, e.g. someone fireballs an illusion.

What I'm looking for is some RAW to back this up ?

[Cygnia]

Q675 Can you Trip a target when Charging them? The PC in question does have Improved Trip.

[Saintheart]

Q675 Can you Trip a target when Charging them? The PC in question does have Improved Trip.

A 675

Yes. Charging is a full-round action which permits you to make a single melee attack. A trip is either an unarmed melee attack or a trip with a weapon. However, that trip then replaces the attack you otherwise would have made at the end of your charge. (You might pick up another one via Improved Trip, which benefit is given upon a successful melee attack - the fact you've charged does not take that extra attack from you.

[Duke of Urrel]

Q674
I'm pretty sure that figments are immune to energy effects, e.g. someone fireballs an illusion.

What I'm looking for is some RAW to back this up ?

Q 674

The Rules as Written don't provide an answer to this question that applies to all cases.

Usually, we can assume that Illusion spells of the Figment subschool can't be harmed by attacks or by spells that cause damage, because the effect of a Figment spell is neither a creature nor an object (only a "false sensation") and in either case has no Hit Points.

However, this sentence from the text of the Major Image spell gives us something to think about.

The image disappears when struck by an opponent unless you cause the illusion to react appropriately.

This rule applies only to the Major Image spell and to spells that are based upon it. However, it does make clear that the effects of some Figment spells can be harmed by attacks, and if they can be harmed by attacks, then perhaps they can be harmed by spells that deal damage as well.

Whether they can or cannot be harmed by spells that deal damage is a question for the dungeon master to answer.

[St Fan]

Q673
Looking at a Cleric with the Spell domain, and specifically the 3rd level spell Anyspell.
This allows the Cleric to learn any Wizard spell from a spellbook (or Scroll).

Is there anyway a Cleric can write a spell they have prepared into a spell-book ?

In core this seems to be a Wizard only ability, though several other classes can do this beyond core, these do not seem to include Cleric.

Most deities which offer the Spell domain also offer the Magic domain. It is unclear whether having the Magic domain would allow this ?

A 673

First off all, anyspell and greater anyspell don't allow a cleric to "learn" a spell (which has a specific definition), they allow a cleric to memorize and cast an arcane spell.

Second of all, it is not "any Wizard spell", it is any arcane spell of up to 2nd level (anyspell) or to 5th level (greater anyspell)

Now that it is cleared, to the question: writing an arcane spell in a spellbook is a specific class feature, limited to very few classes (to my knowledge, only Wizard, Wu Jen or Chameleon can do so).

The Magic domain only allow a cleric to use spell completion (scrolls) or spell trigger (wands) items like a Wizard, it does nothing for writing spell in a spellbook.

So, if the cleric is not multiclassed to any of these classes, mastering anyspell won't allow any transcription to a spellbook.

However, IF the cleric is multiclassed (or isn't even a cleric but has gotten access to anyspell by another mean) with one of these classes, then yes, having the spell prepared is enough to transcribe it, as explained on the SRD:

A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above). The process wipes the prepared spell from her mind, just as casting it would. If she does not have the spell prepared, she can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.

The process is normally aimed at partially reconstituting a lost spellbook, but can be easily abused with anyspell and greater anyspell. It even dispense you from making any spellcraft checks!

NOTE, please, that writing successfully an arcane spell in the spellbook DOESN'T mean the character can automatically prepare and cast it afterward. The spell can very well be beyond the current caster level of his arcane casting class (if having more Cleric levels than Wizard levels, for example). Furthermore, it can perfectly be an arcane spell that's not in his spell list. If using anyspell to copy a bard-only spell, for another example, the caster cannot prepare it in a Wizard spell slot since, once again, it's not on his spell list. He could, however, prepare it by casting anyspell again and using the spellbook as reference.

[jdizzlean]

Q 675

if a class or racial ability gives you a flight speed, but doesn't list a maneuverability, how can you determine that?

[Troacctid]

NOTE, please, that writing successfully an arcane spell in the spellbook DOESN'T mean the character can automatically prepare and cast it afterward. The spell can very well be beyond the current caster level of his arcane casting class (if having more Cleric levels than Wizard levels, for example). Furthermore, it can perfectly be an arcane spell that's not in his spell list. If using anyspell to copy a bard-only spell, for another example, the caster cannot prepare it in a Wizard spell slot since, once again, it's not on his spell list. He could, however, prepare it by casting anyspell again and using the spellbook as reference.

This last bit here is incorrect. You cannot scribe a spell unless it's on your class spell list. The scribing rules prevent it.

Q 675

if a class or racial ability gives you a flight speed, but doesn't list a maneuverability, how can you determine that?

Check for errata first. If there isn't any, ask your DM.

[Thurbane]

Q 675

if a class or racial ability gives you a flight speed, but doesn't list a maneuverability, how can you determine that?

A 675 opinion

Check for errata first. If there isn't any, ask your DM.

^^ This. I don't believe there is a default RAW answer for this. I would imagine if the specific ability doesn't mention anything, then it would be a DM call.

Generally speaking, it depends on a couple of main factors: magical/wingless flight tends to be better maneuverability than winged flight; and smaller/more dexterous creatures tend to have better maneuverability than larger/less dexterous creatures. Also, creatures with higher flight speed tend to have slightly better maneuverability than those with lower speeds, but that is not always true. There are exceptions to all of these, of course.

If there is a specific ability you're looking it, may be best to start a thread so people can speculate and offer suggestions.

Here's a few examples of just how varied class-based flight can be:

• Animal Lord (Birdlord) 3 - Wild Aspect (Su): same as land speed, average
• Battle Dancer 17 - Dance of the Soaring Eagle (Su): same as land speed, average
• Demonbinder 1 - Demonbind (Balor) (Sp): same as land speed, good
• Diamond Dragon 6 - Channel Dragon Wings (Su): 30 ft (can be increased), perfect
• Dragon Disciple 9 - Wings (Ex): same as land speed, average
• Dragon Shaman 19 - Draconic Wings (Ex): 60 ft, good
• Elemental Warrior (Air) 4 - Elemental Movement (Su): 20 ft, perfect
• Enlightened Spirit 3 - Celestial Flight (Sp): same as land speed, good
• Favored Soul 17 - Wings (Ex): 60 ft, good
• MotUH 4 - Telekinetic Flight (Ex): 20 ft, perfect
• Psion Uncarnate 2 - Shed Body (Su): same as land speed, perfect
• Sunmaster 10 - Sunform (Sp): 120 ft, perfect
• Vermin Lord 5 - Wings of the Vermin (Su): same as land speed, average

[St Fan]

This last bit here is incorrect. You cannot scribe a spell unless it's on your class spell list. The scribing rules prevent it.

You are right that it is not possible to scribe a spell that's not in your spell list from a scroll or a borrowed spellbook.

If the spell is already prepared in the caster's mind, however (as is the case thanks to anyspell), then there is no such limit in the rules.