Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

[Blackhawk748]

>.> I legit started playing Orkz so I could just throw random parts of vehicles together to make Looted Vehicles.

This is a valid reason

I'm reasonably sure this is how all Ork players get started. That, and the desire to scream war cries at (or with) their toy soldiers.

And there are the other ones. That and being super forgiving with conversions, cuz Orks

[Cheesegear]

>.> I legit started playing Orkz so I could just throw random parts of vehicles together to make Looted Vehicles.

This is a valid reason.
[...]
That and being super forgiving with conversions, cuz Orks

Depends on whether or not you're putting literal garbage on the board. Every Ork player I've who has used 'conversions' as a reason to get into Orks has used it for justification to use basically trash (i.e; Why buy real models when I can use this thing I found at the $2 shop and put electrical garbage on it?)

The only person I know who has done it correctly sold all his Looted Vehicles (i.e; Converted Leman Russes) 'cause GW made them Open Play only and thus, expensive paperweights.

[Blackhawk748]

Depends on whether or not you're putting literal garbage on the board. Every Ork player I've who has used 'conversions' as a reason to get into Orks has used it for justification to use basically trash (i.e; Why buy real models when I can use this thing I found at the $2 shop and put electrical garbage on it?)

The only person I know who has done it correctly sold all his Looted Vehicles (i.e; Converted Leman Russes) 'cause GW made them Open Play only and thus, expensive paperweights.

I didn't mean that forgiving (though I have seen some hilarious usage of Monster Truck toys) I meant it mroe of "You clipped a Rokkit off your Rokkit Launcha and stuck a pair of storm bolters on the end so it sorta looks like a gun and called it a Snazzgun."

Basically I call them Easy Mode conversions which let you get practice for the harder ones

[The Patterner]

I didn't mean that forgiving (though I have seen some hilarious usage of Monster Truck toys) I meant it mroe of "You clipped a Rokkit off your Rokkit Launcha and stuck a pair of storm bolters on the end so it sorta looks like a gun and called it a Snazzgun."

Basically I call them Easy Mode conversions which let you get practice for the harder ones

Orks and to a slightly lesser degree Chaos, just stick som barrels/tentacles on it and it works.

Eldar feels like they would be the hardest.

[Cheesegear]

Orks and to a slightly lesser degree Chaos, just stick som barrels/tentacles on it and it works.

Back when I was in high school, we had a guy who made Nurgle Daemons using paper clips and blu-tac.
Literally none of us were impressed.

...Until he bought a bunch of sculpting tools and got good at it.

[Ornithologist]

Back when I was in high school, we had a guy who made Nurgle Daemons using paper clips and blu-tac.
Literally none of us were impressed.

...Until he bought a bunch of sculpting tools and got good at it.

Everyone starts somewhere. Heck I still use paper clips when I pin parts of minis. I also use Blu-tac to dry fit models while they are WIPs.

[Cheesegear]

So, it's legal to create your own Chapter, right?
But then also make another Chapter for a new Detachment?

e.g;
Cool Kids, Battalion: +1 Advance and Charge, Advance and Shoot without Penalties.
Big Nerds, Spearhead: Count as being in Cover over 12" away, Vehicles count as having double wounds.

...Right?
Time to start painting shoulder rims.

[Ornithologist]

So, it's legal to create your own Chapter, right?
But then also make another Chapter for a new Detachment?

e.g;
Cool Kids, Battalion: +1 Advance and Charge, Advance and Shoot without Penalties.
Big Nerds, Spearhead: Count as being in Cover over 12" away, Vehicles count as having double wounds.

...Right?
Time to start painting shoulder rims.

Now, I didn't get the book because I pretty much only run BA. But does combat doctrines require the whole army to be from the same chapter or just have the whole army with the ability combat doctrines? That would be my only question on your dual multi chapter army idea.

Edit: Maybe wait for the 2 week FAQ to come out. If they don't clarify it as not possible then, then you are good to go. Because we all know they almost never update them again.

[Turalisj]

Just requires everyone to have combat doctrines.

[Cheesegear]

Now, I didn't get the book because I pretty much only run BA. But does combat doctrines require the whole army to be from the same chapter or just have the whole army with the ability combat doctrines?

The whole army must have Combat Doctrines, for anything to have Combat Doctrines. But they're pretty lame and don't count for much. But it's moot, because everything I'm running comes out of the Codex which means I'd get Combat Doctrines anyway. If you ran three different Codex: Space Marine Chapters in the same army, you would have Combat Doctrines.

An army with Raven Guard, Iron Hands & Ultramarines would have Combat Doctrines.
An army with Space Wolves, Iron Hands & Ultramarines, wouldn't.

Chapter Tactics, is what I'm talking about, and it's per Detachment, and it looks like you can create Chapter Tactics for all your Detachments as many times as you want, cherry picking the **** out of the Codex. Of course you're not supposed to do it, 'cause the game is supposed to be fun, right? But I can't see anything stopping you from breaking it if you wanted to.

Making your entire army from a single Chapter becomes more relevant in Supplements.

[Lord Torath]

Regarding "extra bits" in boxed sets:

The Space Marine Devastator box comes with five marines and 12! heavy weapons. Combine that with the Tactical Squad box, and you can make 3 5-marine devastator squads with 4 heavy weapons each. Plenty of bits in the two sets to make 3 sergeants. Then you just have a bunch of extra bolters and special weapons.

[Ornithologist]

The whole army must have Combat Doctrines, for anything to have Combat Doctrines. But they're pretty lame and don't count for much. But it's moot, because everything I'm running comes out of the Codex which means I'd get Combat Doctrines anyway. If you ran three different Codex: Space Marine Chapters in the same army, you would have Combat Doctrines.

An army with Raven Guard, Iron Hands & Ultramarines would have Combat Doctrines.
An army with Space Wolves, Iron Hands & Ultramarines, wouldn't.

Chapter Tactics, is what I'm talking about, and it's per Detachment, and it looks like you can create Chapter Tactics for all your Detachments as many times as you want, cherry picking the **** out of the Codex. Of course you're not supposed to do it, 'cause the game is supposed to be fun, right? But I can't see anything stopping you from breaking it if you wanted to.

Making your entire army from a single Chapter becomes more relevant in Supplements.

sounds like its good to go then. I could see them FAQing it out, but it wouldn't be the weirdest thing they ignored.

I ran that trick with a sternguard squad box and a BA tacitcal box to get 3 pretty nice sternguard 5 man squads back in the day.

[LeSwordfish]

Am I correct in thinking you can combine your custom chapter tactics with the relics, stratagems etc from the supplements?

[Cheesegear]

Plenty of bits in the two sets to make 3 sergeants.

No there isn't. You don't get the Signums.
But, as LansXero pointed out earlier, if GW gives you too many bits, you're better off buying the rest of models from...Elsewhere.

I've bought several Devastator legs, torsos - and yes, Signums - from...Elsewhere, and it turned out to be cheaper than buying a Tactical Squad box. IIRC the Devastator box comes with like 15 heads or something stupid.

Am I correct in thinking you can combine your custom chapter tactics with the relics, stratagems etc from the supplements?

Negative. To use the Supplements, you must have that Chapter's Tactics.
Using Create Your Own Chapter, and picking the 'Pick a real Tactic', counts. So...Technically it's your custom Chapter.

EDIT: It's worded incredibly badly...So I'll have to go over it better. Seems like you can.

[druid91]

And lo. Did Games Workshop replace portions of Imperial Soup with Space Marine Soup.

[LansXero]

No there isn't. You don't get the Signums.
But, as LansXero pointed out earlier, if GW gives you too many bits, you're better off buying the rest of models from...Elsewhere.

I've bought several Devastator legs, torsos - and yes, Signums - from...Elsewhere, and it turned out to be cheaper than buying a Tactical Squad box. IIRC the Devastator box comes with like 15 heads or something stupid.

Well, if its just the Signum you just bluestuff that bit, its not even hard and once painted nobody will notice.

Small detail quality will vary tremendously between recasters (and its a big no-no for 3D printers except the very high end ones) so going for the 'solid' parts (like bodies or chasis) is better. You still need to be handy with a knife though, as youll need to trim and polish joints more than with GW kits, but then, with the difference you can probably afford a pretty good knife xD.

This is why I think its BS that Canis Rex is an evergreen item on the trade range, but Renegade isnt. The only way to justify the asinine price tag on Canis Rex is if all those extra options had extra bodies to go onto, and Renegade was a great value option for that.

[Cheesegear]

And lo. Did Games Workshop replace portions of Imperial Soup with Space Marine Soup.

Space Marine Soup was already happening (everyone is Black Templars Servitors!). Most Space Marine players are 'casuals' and not only play One Army = One Codex, but One Sub-Faction = One Army. But everyone playing Space Marines seriously has been running Astartes Soup for a while, Space Marine players have been dunking on people for ages, it's why Guilliman is 400 Points and Repulsors got nerfed. The problem is it's not 'Top 8' so no-one notices.

EDIT: So it seems everyone wants to know if Index units are getting the Angels of Death rules... They are not. GW doesn't care about Index units, and they never will.

[LansXero]

Huh, so Scouts can deploy 9" as usual? Wasnt it changed to 'run 9" forward from deployment"? Because I just checked the FAQ and its still 'deploy 9" away'. What am I missing?

[Cheesegear]

Huh, so Scouts can deploy 9" as usual? Wasnt it changed to 'run 9" forward from deployment"? Because I just checked the FAQ and its still 'deploy 9" away'. What am I missing?

That was Strike From the Shadows.

Scouts never had the same rule as Rangers.

EDIT:
Reading a question on Facebook, it seems that custom Chapter Tactics Successors can claim to be a Successor Chapter of anyone they want. However, in the rules, it says that if you're running a Chapter whose parent is Known, you must run that Chapter Tactics (We're going to ignore 'hobby oppression' and being objectively punished for subjectively liking things...For now).

Solution? ...Don't put Chapter Badges on your models. Don't buy those 'upgrade sprues' that inflate the cost of every box. Just...Don't do it. See, I was once desperate for those Imperial Fists sprues to come out IRL, instead of in a limited edition box and then gone forever until GW decides I can have them again. But, if putting Chapter logos on my models is going to force me to play Imperial Fists, whether I want to or not...Why would I buy them? When I can just use the same models for yellow Blood Angels Lamenters, or yellow White Scars Marauders?

As long as you're not running named Characters, play whatever you want (as long as your models don't have Chapter badges), I think is the message.

That being said, the other implication is that all Marneus Calgars or Kor'sarro Khans must be painted blue or white respectively, and then we're back to hobby oppression where if you don't want to paint white, you're literally not allowed to play with Kor'sarro... The ****?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Let’s be real, anyone who insists on stuff like that isn’t worth your time to play with.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm painting all my marines a custom color scheme, because I don't have the money OR space for multiple armies of Space marines.

Plus, it makes things more unique.

[Avaris]

Let’s be real, anyone who insists on stuff like that isn’t worth your time to play with.

This. The approach to deciding which chapter tactics to use with your army should be up to the player. For me, having the ‘best’ tactics is a secondary consideration, so I am happy to use the tactis ‘as intended’; my Ultramarinesuse Ultramarine tactics, if I want another chapter I’ll paint them up in whatever it is I want.

But that’s my choice for my own collection, and largely governed by my collection being relatively small: I don’t have many 1000s of points all painted the same way, instead I organise on detachments. I have an Ultramarines detachment, but if I decide to paint up a load of vehicles as a support detachment they’ll probably be a different chapter. But if you have a collection built over years, all of the same chapter, you should be able to use whichever tactics you want.

[Cheesegear]

Let’s be real, anyone who insists on stuff like that isn’t worth your time to play with.

What's worse, that GW made it RAW in the first place, or someone enforcing it because it is RAW?

But if you have a collection built over years, all of the same chapter, you should be able to use whichever tactics you want.

As I've said, the easiest way to represent it if you're definitely not willing to strip and re-paint all your models is to use the shoulder rims to represent Company markings.

[LansXero]

Is there anything keeping you from putting a Knight in a teleportarium with the Lucius stratagem?

[Cheesegear]

Is there anything keeping you from putting a Knight in a teleportarium with the Lucius stratagem?

"You can set up a <Lucius> unit from your army in a teleportarium chamber..."

Dunno. The wording is ambiguous.

[Avaris]

Is there anything keeping you from putting a Knight in a teleportarium with the Lucius stratagem?

They can’t get the required Lucius keyword, as they don’t (I think) have a <Forge World> space in their list of key words? And you can’t just give them the keyword as their <HouseHold> either, just as you can’t call a guard regiment <Ultramarines> to use their stratagems.

Edit: unsure if the Ad Mech codex has rules for knights in: those ones might have <Forge World> but lose out on everything else Knights get

[LansXero]

"You can set up a <Lucius> unit from your army in a teleportarium chamber..."

Dunno. The wording is ambiguous.

Dont be a smartass, it is in spanish. Thanks though, saves me the trouble of hitting VK for the english version.

[Cheesegear]

Dont be a smartass, it is in spanish.

Is someone in your shop exploiting the fact that the Spanish is poorly worded and thus using it to teleport Mechanicus Knights?

[Wraith]

I'm curious - can you translate more or less what the Spanish version says for us, please? While I appreciate that nuances can be different from region to region, if the language actually changes the rule then I'll be quite amazed that international tournaments aren't more argumentative.

I know English-speaking tournaments insist on English-language books, but I'd have thought we'd have heard more stories about people turning up and going, "What, what? That's not what *my* books says!"

[Drasius]

I'm curious - can you translate more or less what the Spanish version says for us, please? While I appreciate that nuances can be different from region to region, if the language actually changes the rule then I'll be quite amazed that international tournaments aren't more argumentative.

I know English-speaking tournaments insist on English-language books, but I'd have thought we'd have heard more stories about people turning up and going, "What, what? That's not what *my* books says!"

IIRC, the non-english codecies have been pretty lacklustre for accuracy from inception (some of the english ones too for that matter). I seem to recall some of the german ones being pretty bad some years back in ... early 6th where the exact same argument you posit broke out at some international thing.

I also seem to remember that a general rule of thumb is that the english book is always right and anything else just gets errata'ed as it gets found.