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2019-08-21, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
I'd also imagine that anyone willing to travel to the sort of tournament where you'd hear about that happening is also serious enough to read the english books and check, definitely in the case of a lynchpin strategy like teleporting a knight.
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2019-08-21, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
I’d assume the standard rule is ‘English version overrides’. Translation in general is a really interesting problem for games designers though: they touched on it in a recent Stormcast interviewing one of the people who work on page layouts for GW. When laying out the book, they need to leave space so that wordier languages still fit when put in place. They also mentioned the problem of translaters who don’t understand the game, so miss the nuances of the rules (I think they said they’ve been working on improving this lately, and giving the translaters the rules earlier). It’s a great example of a ‘hidden’ time constraint on putting out new material for a game.
Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-08-21, 04:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
I can imagine that to be true... But then, I am English, GW are an English company and I speak only English so it's easy for me to make that assumption.
LansXero is clearly bilingual and extremely fluent, however - he hangs out with us and uses our weird contractions, acronyms and other idioms better than some monolingual people I know - as are several other people in the thread. I'm genuinely interested in how you guys feel about being told that your book in your native language is "second class" to another, nominally identical, one that you might be physically unable to get hold of?
Remember Andrew Gonyo? He went to Adepticon 2019 and made it into the top 16 at place #1 with his Flesh Tearers list... With a <Blood Angels Only> Relic. Because he "misread his codex" and the rules for successor chapters were "unclear".
I admit, a bit of a biased argument from me as the wider controversy is that Gonyo was probably cheating on purpose. Still, if his 'plausible argument' is that he went to Adepticon and could claim to have misread his book, I feel that someone reading a mistranslated book and then switching to their second language is also a plausible reason for mistakes.Last edited by Wraith; 2019-08-21 at 04:55 AM.
~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2019-08-21, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
To be clear, not saying this is the right approach to take! But when it comes to RAW, it is presumably the rule that GW intends? I’m not sure they’ve written it down anywhere though? (Unlike, say, MtG, which is explicit on the rule that applies).
It’s linked to the wider problem of, historically at least, I don’t think GW has thought too much about the wording of the rules. Coming up with a flavourful rule is a different skill to making that rule clear and useable in game. In AoS they have a standard set of wording applied to all rules of a similar nature, so it’s a thing being thought about by some at least.Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-08-21, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Presumably a significant part of the solution is for them to get the consistent wording document they have internally (for AOS at least) translated to a good standard, and that will cover most of the situations.
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2019-08-21, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Spanish codices are cheaper because they're also missing several pages, mostly fluff and stuff. They also are usually softback.
The rule in spanish is 'Una unidad de tu ejercito'. It doesnt specify the Lucius keyword, which is where the confusion comes from. Probably due to space constraints.
This is a new-ish guy who's branching into AdMech since their aesthetic 'fits' more with giant robots for him than a bunch of guards do. Of course, its still mostly as CP fodder, but as mentioned before we are competitive, yet still try to fit in fluff / flavor to an extent. Question came as preparation for the doubles tournament this weekend, since like I also mentioned before we all prefer to ask and check online instead of assuming and messing things at the table. He's using the spanish version because, as I also mentioned before, we are a poor country and the codex was cheaper and also its all he has. For the few people here who'd buy books instead of downloading and printing them, Im not about to suggest him to go to VK / other such sites and download the english version xD.
Now, if only BattleScribe would include stratagems... Time to order him some AdMech datacards! :D
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2019-08-21, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Am I right in thinking that Primaris Marines are scaled so that you can use tactical marine arms? I'm tempted to try and run an all-primaris update to my Fire Hawks, but since i'm not much of a fan of the Reiver models i'm wondering if I can just use the rules for them and make an Assault Intercessor unit with assault marine arms. Reiver combat blades are the same as Chainswords, and if I don't run any oldmarines then the difference between Bolt Pistols and Heavy Bolt Pistols is pretty academic.
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2019-08-21, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
As long as they don't 'cross the body', I think they look okay. The torso of a Primaris Marine is slightly wider than a normal Marine, so 'two-handed' weapons
sometimesoften have problems fitting correctly. However with a bit of cutting and a decent positioning of pauldrons, you can sometimes get away with it.
The only ones that look bad - IMO - are Power Fists. They don't look right at all. But, since you're making Reivers, that shouldn't be a problem.
i'm wondering if I can just use the rules for them and make an Assault Intercessor unit with assault marine arms.
Spoiler: It's Been Done
...You can see an issue with that Flamer model in the right pauldron where the two-handed arms aren't quite fitting to the torso. But if your plan is to make Reivers, that shouldn't be a problem.
Spoiler
Here you can see where the left pauldrons have been glued slightly too far forwards. From over 30cms away, you probably wouldn't even be able to tell. But since no-one takes photos of models 30< cms away, it sticks out...Especially if you've been gluing GKs together really recently so you know what it's supposed to look like. But the guy in the front looks fine because his arms aren't trying to cross his chest.
Spoiler
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2019-08-21, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
There is definitely a slight difference, although confirming that definitively took several minutes of digging through my bits box to find numarine and oldmarine arms in the same pose, so it's not that noticable. You could probably still pull it off as long as its not a two handed grip, but I might consider handswaps instead if you can.
Last edited by Squark; 2019-08-21 at 10:44 AM.
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2019-08-21, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2019-08-21, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Well, yeah. The player came to me and went 'this is way broke, are you sure it works this way?'. Then again, the [Lucius] tag already includes faction and its limited to actual AdMech units, so no Knights; it wouldnt've made sense to include any more specifications if the tag were already there.
Last edited by LansXero; 2019-08-21 at 12:20 PM.
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2019-08-21, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
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2019-08-21, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Holy [poop]. There's translation errors, and then there's literally removing words from the sentence. That's a whole different thing and I absolutely take back my 'how is this not obvious' comment.
I just don't understand how a bolded proper noun Keyword gets removed.
Holy [poop] again. Fair play to the guy, instead of abusing the **** out of it and claiming he was playing by the rules, he actually went to the TO to get clarification before he did whatever he wanted. Seriously. If he played that in a tournament, someone said 'bull****' and then he whipped out his Codex and the wording was exactly how you say it is...What could you do?
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2019-08-21, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Nothing at all, since I sold him the thing and I can either admit to selling faulty goods, and he'll be rightfully pissed, or let him play it that way, and his oponent will be rightfully pissed. This is why we have FB chats though, precisely to prevent the bad stuff from reaching the table. This is also why its always so surprising to me that people actually pack stuff and show up to play completely clueless. As for fair play, 'competitive' means you want to win 'cause you're good, not because you snuck in a cheat without the other guy realizing it. And we're pretty used to spanish translations being crap (Spain should move to portuguese or something and stop messing our language. We latins outnumber them like 20:1, and yet they make the rules? get bent) and text omissions / adaptations changing rules. It used to be the same for Magic (but they've gotten much better with time) and its still the same for YuGiOh (which is already a wordy game in english, so spanish translations can only make the font so small before they need to nip stuff).
For example, Ringmail Vest is 'Chaleco de cota de mallas de anillos'. Composite words, which are very popular in english and japanese (which are the original languages for most if not all card games) are horrible to translate, as they become very long. Now, if the rules text references the card name a couple of times....
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2019-08-22, 03:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
That's not really what I'm worried about - though I can see how that's really annoying.
My point is:
a) <Lucius> is in a different typeface (hey, a composite word), it's pretty hard to miss, even if you're a translator, and
b) Lucius, is a proper noun. Regardless of the language you're speaking, that's what you'd call it - the only difference is pronunciation, but, text doesn't have an accent.
Why would you remove the word completely? It just doesn't make sense.
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2019-08-22, 03:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
I suspect it’s an example of a translator being given the task without any understanding of what the rules mean? Perhaps they thought that the inclusion of ‘Lucius’ in the stratagem’s heading was sufficient, and this was redundant. But if looking for a place to save on words, which they need to do in order to fit things in given the lack of composite words, dropping this sort of thing makes some sense if you don’t understand the game fully, or if it applying to Lucius units seems obvious to them from the context.
Ultimately, this is just another reason why GW should make the rules freely/cheaply available in a form that can be easily updated and that isn’t limited by page constraints.Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2019-08-22, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
So, I decided to do some quizzes since I was curious about which army I should really play. Curiously, all quizzes point towards the Eldar, some of the deeper quizzes all point to Craftworld Alaitoc as my best match. Now that I'm curious about starting Eldar, I'm not sure where to start.
I figure the Start Collecting is as good a place as any, specially with that Wraithlord. Even got what weapons to give the models planned, and plans to just pin the heavy weapons and not glue them.
Once I have that start, I'm considering prioritizing units that can be used in kill-team. Rangers and Dire Avengers early on, then maybe some Howling Banshees (who doesn't love them) and Striking Scorpions, as well as a Warlock maybe for that 2nd in command. Given Alaitoc's use of rangers, as well as more than average exarchs among the aspect warriors, my idea for Kill Team is to have DA, HB and SS exarchs together with a team of rangers providing cover.
After that, really depends on how I'm going with them. Do you think this is a solid plan of attack to start a new army + kill-team?Lassar avatar made by myself, with RPG Maker MV
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2019-08-22, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
So, one issue you can run into when collecting for both kill team and regular 40k is wargear composition- A unit of wraithguard has to be homogeneous in 40k as I understand, but a kill team roster is probably going to want a range of wargear options- you might even want to assemble a mix of wraithguard and wraithblades. The good news is that wraithguard/blades are the only Craftworld unit with this issue, at least. Pinning/Magnetizing should alleviate issues, but the kit doesn't look as magnetization friendly as, say, Space Marines, who have a huge flat surface where the arm meets the torso that's perfect for 2 magnets.
As far as your base kill team idea... It's certainly fluffy, but I worry that with the Howling Banshee and Striking Scorpion Exarchs as your only source of multi-damage weapons, you'll struggle to get out of action results. Replacing some Rangers with a guardian heavy weapons team or a wraithguard might be advisable.Steam ID: The Great Squark
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2019-08-22, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
While the Wraithblades can be solid, on a very niche build, and the Farseer is a staple of the faction, the rest of the start collecting box is subpar and not very good.
Eldar lists currently focus on either Crimson Hunters, Wave Serpents or Dark Reapers. Of course, if performance isnt an issue then go ahead and buy whatever. Rangers are pretty solid for troops, but Guardians can be really good too, depending on how you want to cap those objectives. Will you be playing Eternal War, Maelstrom or narrative?
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2019-08-22, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
If I have to, I can always get a 2nd unit of Wraithguard and give them the other weapon option. I'm surprised the Wraithlord isn't that popular anymore though. For the most part, I haven't even planned for points matches, just play with whatever looks cool, using power levels as a guide.
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2019-08-22, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Which quizzes are these?
Now that I'm curious about starting Eldar, I'm not sure where to start.
But, for the most part, do you know what other people around you are running? And do you have a vague idea of what is literally in their lists? If you just want to buy models that look cool, then yes, I agree - the Wraithlord is very cool. If you want to spend hundreds of currency and also don't want to lose games, we're going to have a very different conversation. But for now, I have to assume that you want the Wraithguard, and you want the Wraithlord.
...This is where pigeon-holing yourself as an Alaitoc player will get you in trouble, because the Start Collecting! box is not helpful to an Alaitoc player. The box strongly leads towards Iyanden (because <Wraith Constructs>) or Ulthwé - for handing out Ignore Wounds (6+) to the toughest models in your Codex. At the very outside, you might also consider Saim-Hann for the re-rolls to Charges, especially if you're interested in Wraithblades and Webway Strikes. But, at the end of the day definitely not Alaitoc.
Now, yes, Alaitoc is arguably the most competitive <Craftworld> to choose. But I've seen several Iyanden and Ulthwé lists do well, too. If you're looking to win at least 50% of your games, there's nothing wrong with Iyanden or Ulthwé... Especially, y'know...If Wraithlords appeal to you...
I figure the Start Collecting is as good a place as any, specially with that Wraithlord.
After that, really depends on how I'm going with them. Do you think this is a solid plan of attack to start a new army + kill-team?
- Guardians (both kinds) are fairly weak. But they can come in squads of 20. And if we know anything about 40K, coming in squads of 20 is a strength all on its own.
- Dire Avengers can move around the board and have decent firepower. But, they're more expensive than other choices. But it's okay, 'cause the math checks out.
- Rangers are absolutely reliant on Cover being available to them. This means that they're very static and don't move around a whole lot - which makes it the ITC Troop-of-choice...Generally. Even if you're not playing ITC, it's always worth picking up at least one unit of Rangers to, well, snipe Characters if possible.
From there, it really depends on what you want to do, and what your opponents are running.
Striking Scorpions are going to make you sad. S4, AP- is not a thing. Howling Banshees are vastly superior due to Webway Strike and the fact that they get +3 to Charge rolls, and your opponent can't Overwatch. Now, if you go Biel-Tan, you can do a similar thing with Striking Scorpions (with S4, AP-), but if you're Biel-Tan, Banshees will have +5 to their Charge...And your opponent still can't Overwatch. Overall, Striking Scorpions are not good. A classic case of a unit not doing what it says on the tin - LansXero would phrase that a different way, which may or may not become the next thread title.
Wraithblades have vastly fallen out of favour due to Quicken not being castable out of Reinforcements. Saim-Hann Wraithblades still exist, but if you're playing Saim-Hann, you could also be running Shining Spears for better. That being said, Wraithguard do make people sad out of a Webway Strike, since every model in the unit carries a Lascannon+, which may make your opponents sad. But unless your opponent is running the triple Lord Discordant Daemon Engine Circus...Or Guard...it's unlikely you're going to find a use for that many Lascannons. That being said, if you do have a use for that many Lascannons, running them without a Spiritseer is pretty sad.
(Space Marines might end up using Vehicles a whole lot, depends how the FAQ shakes out)
Mostly, I want to get it across that the Start Collecting! box doesn't sound like what you want. Or, perhaps more accurately, 'Alaitoc Wraith Constructs' isn't a particularly viable build, and you kind of need to pick one or the other. Alaitoc is viable. Wraith Constructs are viable...But not together. That being said, you can run multiple Detachments of different Craftworlds that all go well to their own strengths. But those choices will become clearer when you've played a few games and built up your collection.
Alternatively, if your concept of 'Alaitoc Wraith Constructs' is 'Triple Hemlocks', then we'll be getting somewhere. But, somehow, I don't think that's the direction you were going for.
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2019-08-22, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
IF wraith constructs is what you want to do, then maybe this would be an option?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW...etachment-2019
Do note that unlike the Guard or IK detachments, this is still available, so that should tell you how popular it is.
Now, I've had moderate success running Alaitoc Wraithblades because a -1 to be hit, 2+/3++/5+++ brick with Toughness 6 and 3 wounds (through a huge investment of psychic powers and CPs, mind you) packing a metric ton of attacks is something most people can't handle WHEN backed by Crimson Hunters and Dark Reapers. They are SLOW, so not something you can just throw at anyone, but low mobility armies like Guard will be either missing the actual core of your army, or plinking away at an undying mass of melee attacks. I've never tried a full wraith army though, so not sure how it stacks up.
Aside from Cheese's advice about know what faction you'll face, knowing the format thats most played around you is key. 'just put down whatever with power level' is a format Ive never read about or seen beyond theoretical exercises on how to break it, so it would be great to check local fanpages / FB groups / etc. to see what your local scene is like.Last edited by LansXero; 2019-08-22 at 08:47 PM.
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2019-08-22, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
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2019-08-22, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Well here is a guide I wrote up for Eldar a while ago. It's a little out of date but still mostly good.
[/QUOTE]
The Start Collecting Box is mostly bad. It gives some units that are alright for some very specific lists, but very few things that you'll always want to take.
Well where are you playing? If you are using points or power level depends on your local meta. But I recommend points if you have a choice. Just get used to it immediately, and it's what most people play so you'll find more games.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-08-22, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
My group of friends have Conquest, so they have Primaris and Death Guard. The magazines only provide power levels though, no points (yet?), that's why I'm only thinking about power levels for the Eldar.
I can't remember where I found the quizzes, but the top 3 are in my memory:
1: Alaitoc (100% even)
2: generic Eldar
3: Ulthwe
Can't remember the rest of the list, but seeing that 100% basically got me obsessed. How do you recommend I start, if not the wraithlord/guards?Lassar avatar made by myself, with RPG Maker MV
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2019-08-22, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
I see. Well if you are playing with friends, then there shouldn't be a problem. If you're playing at your local gamestore, then maybe you should look into points then.
Well you want to do Alaitoc? Then I suggest you start off with getting 15 Rangers. Then a Farseer and a Warlock. That will be your basic Battalion. If you really want to invest in Alaitoc, then pick up Illic to boot.
From there, you've got a lot of options. There are very few flat out bad choices in the Eldar codex. Some solid choices that are good for nearly any army build though? Wave Serpents, Dark Reapers, and Shining Spears.
Sadly, I don't think there are any good boxes to take short cuts for Eldar. The Start Collecting box is a joke. For some reason the Webstore is down right now, so I can't look at any other bargain boxes out there.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-08-22, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
I read that Alaitoc specialize in rangers, and I like sniping type forces. I'm just thinking, if I am to get a farseer (and what eldar army doesn't have one), why not get the start collecting for a cheaper bundle. Even if the wraiths aren't as good in Alaitoc, the option is there if I feel like using them. Even have an idea of converting the wraithlord to carry one of the heavy weapons in both hands as a 'wraith sniper rifle'.
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2019-08-22, 11:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
The reason to not get the Start Collecting is because none of it actually brings you closer to actually having an army besides the Farseer. It doesn't have any of the oh so crucial troop choices. And the wraiths are good for very particular army builds. If you decide you want to build one of those armies, then cool, the Start Collecting will help you out there. But it's really bad as a first purchase. And don't worry about the Farseer. Getting an extra Farseer later is still very useful. In fact, if you don't get the Start Collecting, you can give your first Farseer a jetbike, which is a really good option and something you likely want at least one of.
So yeah, the Start Collecting box is one of the worst thing for an Eldar player to get when they start collecting. Ironically enough. It's something to get when you've got a complete and clear idea of exactly what you want your army to be. Basically, if you have to ask if the Start Collecting box is for you, that means it probably isn't.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-08-22, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Rad. You only have to deal with Marines. One has two wounds, the other has Disgustingly Resilient. Multi-Damage weapons are your friend, and thus, Wraithguard are entirely usable to hard counter the bane-of-casuals, Blightlords, insofar as that whoever goes first, loses.
That being said, if the Marines dip into Guard, or the Death Guard start running 100+ Poxwalkers, hard tailoring goes out the window.
Knowing your opponents, vastly helps, especially as both of them play almost the same thing.
HQ
Mortal Wound generators are your friend. Eldrad is literally magic. But since you're not going to play Ulthwé, he's out. Regular Farseers do the job. While you're looking for your second HQ, make it a Spiritseer to make your <Wraith Constructs> not bad.
An Autarch (+/- Skyrunner) never goes wrong because Path of Command is just that useful - especially if you're not Ulthwé.
You'll also want to look into running Maugan Ra or Illic Nightspear. You do not need both. Ironically, Maugan Ra gets worse the more Dark Reapers you have. Then again, you do want to play <Alaitoc>, so Nightspear will be a cool guy.
Troops
As I previously said, all Eldar Troops are equally as good/bad as each other. It doesn't matter which one you go with. Especially good for casuals because the price point for each box is exactly the same. Considering you're playing against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, I like Guardians with a Starcannon. That said, you do have to pay 80 Points before you even get a single Starcannon, and, since you're Craftworlds, there are better ways to get Starcannons.
Dire Avengers are a solid Troops choice. They're far from the best Troops in the game (Plaguebearers). But they're not even close to as bad as the worst Troops in the game (conversation for a different day). So, pick up as many Dire Avengers as you want, especially if you're playing Maelstrom and movement matters. But, if it doesn't...
Alaitoc Rangers are good because they pick up -2 to hit if they're in Cover (which should be all the time). So, you should absolutely pick up at least one unit of Rangers. Especially since they deal additional Mortal Wounds. So, yeah.
An even mix of Dire Avengers and Rangers isn't wrong. And even if you don't have an even mix of Avengers:Rangers, you're still not wrong.
Elites
If we're starting with Wraithguard, we know that Fire Dragons are redundant.
If we're starting with Wraithblades, we know that Howling Banshees are redundant.
Either way, you want a Spiritseer.
So, however you build your Wraith unit, pick up the other corresponding Aspect Warrior unit.
...You never need to run Striking Scorpions... Unless you really like the models. But against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, they're going to do almost next to nothing unless you can roll 6s. Buy 'em if you like 'em. But, you've been warned.
Fast
The only choice really worth taking, is Shining Spears, and if you're taking Shining Spears, you even more don't need Wraithblades. So kit out those Wraithguard with Webwaying Lascannons.
Heavy
War Walkers and Wraithlords both want to run basically the same thing - Starcannons or AMLs.
Vibro Cannons will **** up Marines hard. The problem is that you have run 3 units of 1 weapon, rather than 1 unit of 3. Which chews up your Role slots real fast. Unless you're running a Spearhead (which you might want to), and then you can use as many slots as you want.
D-Cannons are extremely strong. But their short range makes them particularly hard to use if you don't want them to die immediately.
Dark Reapers are arguably the best unit in the Codex.
Take Fire Prisms if you don't like Dark Reapers.
Wave Serpents under the <Alaitoc> tag are very strong. Similar to War Walkers and Wraithlords, you have access to Starcannons and AMLs, except now they're Twinned, and thus, better.
Fliers
All planes are good under the <Alaitoc> tag for the same reason that Rangers are. Stackable negs to hit. That being said, even without -2 to hit, Craftworld Fliers are extremely strong and it never hurts to turn your eye to making an Air Wing at some point in the future. If you're not going to run a full Air Wing, and you're only going to pick up a single Flier due to any constraint you choose, pick up the Hemlock Wraithfighter. ****'s brutal - especially against Marines.
Wraithknights under the <Alaitoc> tag are really stupid. "Where's the Titan, I can't see it!?" That said, Imperial and Renegade Knights will dunk on a Wraithknight. So if your opponents are running Knights in their lists, as Craftworlds, the answer, actually, is not a Titan of your own. But...More Wraithguard.
Even have an idea of converting the wraithlord to carry one of the heavy weapons in both hands as a 'wraith sniper rifle'.
Hell, I don't even play Craftworlds, and I've done that conversion.
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2019-08-23, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Lima, Peru
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts
Rad. You only have to deal with Marines. One has two wounds, the other has Disgustingly Resilient. Multi-Damage weapons are your friend, and thus, Wraithguard are entirely usable to hard counter the bane-of-casuals, Blightlords, insofar as that whoever goes first, loses.
My own personal suggestion? 1. Download BattleScribe. There, now you have points for everything and a tool to build lists. 2. Buy the Datacards for your faction. They'll come in handy if you want to play Maelstrom later on. 3. Find a local group / store. Starter Box Sealed gets old really fast, and you may not want to put money on stuff that you'll only use a couple of times then everybody just moves on. Conquest is a Europe thing, right? So it should be pretty easy.
Knowing your opponents, vastly helps, especially as both of them play almost the same thing.
HQ
Mortal Wound generators are your friend. Eldrad is literally magic. But since you're not going to play Ulthwé, he's out. Regular Farseers do the job. While you're looking for your second HQ, make it a Spiritseer to make your <Wraith Constructs> not bad.
An Autarch (+/- Skyrunner) never goes wrong because Path of Command is just that useful - especially if you're not Ulthwé.
You'll also want to look into running Maugan Ra or Illic Nightspear. You do not need both. Ironically, Maugan Ra gets worse the more Dark Reapers you have. Then again, you do want to play <Alaitoc>, so Nightspear will be a cool guy.
Troops
As I previously said, all Eldar Troops are equally as good/bad as each other. It doesn't matter which one you go with. Especially good for casuals because the price point for each box is exactly the same. Considering you're playing against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, I like Guardians with a Starcannon. That said, you do have to pay 80 Points before you even get a single Starcannon, and, since you're Craftworlds, there are better ways to get Starcannons.
Dire Avengers are a solid Troops choice. They're far from the best Troops in the game (Plaguebearers). But they're not even close to as bad as the worst Troops in the game (conversation for a different day). So, pick up as many Dire Avengers as you want, especially if you're playing Maelstrom and movement matters. But, if it doesn't...
Alaitoc Rangers are good because they pick up -2 to hit if they're in Cover (which should be all the time). So, you should absolutely pick up at least one unit of Rangers. Especially since they deal additional Mortal Wounds. So, yeah.
An even mix of Dire Avengers and Rangers isn't wrong. And even if you don't have an even mix of Avengers:Rangers, you're still not wrong.
Rangers are cool but your oponent has auto-hit weapons in the drones, so the -x matters less. The marine's player you'll wound on 4s, and their HQs have quite a few wounds, so sniping isnt something to bank on. They're good for coming in turn 2 and stealing unguarded objectives, or just as CP fodder, but if you're not using detachments no need to worry about CPs.
Elites
If we're starting with Wraithguard, we know that Fire Dragons are redundant.
If we're starting with Wraithblades, we know that Howling Banshees are redundant.
Either way, you want a Spiritseer.
So, however you build your Wraith unit, pick up the other corresponding Aspect Warrior unit.
...You never need to run Striking Scorpions... Unless you really like the models. But against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, they're going to do almost next to nothing unless you can roll 6s. Buy 'em if you like 'em. But, you've been warned.
Fast
The only choice really worth taking, is Shining Spears, and if you're taking Shining Spears, you even more don't need Wraithblades. So kit out those Wraithguard with Webwaying Lascannons.
Heavy
War Walkers and Wraithlords both want to run basically the same thing - Starcannons or AMLs.
Vibro Cannons will **** up Marines hard. The problem is that you have run 3 units of 1 weapon, rather than 1 unit of 3. Which chews up your Role slots real fast. Unless you're running a Spearhead (which you might want to), and then you can use as many slots as you want.
D-Cannons are extremely strong. But their short range makes them particularly hard to use if you don't want them to die immediately.
Dark Reapers are arguably the best unit in the Codex.
Take Fire Prisms if you don't like Dark Reapers.
Wave Serpents under the <Alaitoc> tag are very strong. Similar to War Walkers and Wraithlords, you have access to Starcannons and AMLs, except now they're Twinned, and thus, better.
Fliers
All planes are good under the <Alaitoc> tag for the same reason that Rangers are. Stackable negs to hit. That being said, even without -2 to hit, Craftworld Fliers are extremely strong and it never hurts to turn your eye to making an Air Wing at some point in the future. If you're not going to run a full Air Wing, and you're only going to pick up a single Flier due to any constraint you choose, pick up the Hemlock Wraithfighter. ****'s brutal - especially against Marines.