Missing Character Archetypes

[Bjarkmundur]

With 5e being pretty all-encompassing for the fantasy genre, are there any character concepts, archetypes or playstyle that you feel lack support?

How about mechanics-wise, do you feel there's a facet of fantasy that 5e doesn't do justice without third party material?

[Digimike]

5e has done a great job of covering most everything. Even if something isn't really included you can sort of make it by simply reflavoring existing options.

But here are a couple that come to mind.

Strength based Brawler.

Ninja Assassin.

Element based wizards/sorcerers with pets. Ex: Geomancer with clay golem or rock elemental. Pyromancer with fire elemental.

Trapper style Hunter. Think of the hunter from World of Warcraft. Some ranger spells like the ice and fire trap spells would go a long way to making this work.

Cloth Armored holy caster.

[Ventruenox]

They got most down, even if multiclassing is needed. If anything, certain weapon specific builds could use a feat to make them viable. Knife thrower and slings come ready to mind.

[Naanomi]

Ninja Assassin.

Cloth Armored holy caster.

Shadow Monk or Shadow Monk/Assassin multiclass?

Divine Soul Sorcerer?

[Digimike]

Shadow Monk or Shadow Monk/Assassin multiclass?

Divine Soul Sorcerer?

A shadow monk/rogue kind of fits, but the old ninja had some spells that went with it.

As for the divine soul I had something more in mind like the old Priest (not cleric). But you could reflavor it to fit a bit.

[Willie the Duck]

Overall, most of the complaints of gaps that I've seen are very specific, such as this-or-that concept from 3rd or 4th edition are hard to replicate. Still, there are some others.

Element based wizards/sorcerers with pets. Ex: Geomancer with clay golem or rock elemental. Pyromancer with fire elemental.

Unless you count re-fluffed familiars, specific petmaster build that isn't focused on undead or animals (necromancers and beastmaster rangers) has issues. I know the most recent artificer introduces a mechanical construct master as well.

They got most down, even if multiclassing is needed. If anything, certain weapon specific builds could use a feat to make them viable. Knife thrower and slings come ready to mind.

Any specific weapons-concept runs into problems, especially if you also want it to be a good choice as a combat build. An example would be clubs -- they are for str-based characters without access to martial weapon proficiency who want to be doing two-weapon-fighting … … not exactly a huge crowd. Strangely enough shield and spear has become viable for maybe the first time since oD&D, but other than that a lot of specific-weapon concepts have rather poor showings. It certainly seems to be a game that favors rapiers, greatswords, halberds, hand crossbows and longbows (otoh, AD&D was 'the bow and sword' show, and 3e was 'why does anything other than spiked chains exist?').

[Naanomi]

I see room for expansion in Warlocks... both in more patrons (Elemental/Genies? Nature Spirits?) and possibly Pact Boones (tiki mask/intimidation booster? Voodoo doll/curse enhancer?)

A ton of races not yet explored as well

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I'm happy with where the classes are. I'd like to see a noncaster with Int as a secondary attribute (not hexblade-but-for-Int though). It's probably the weakest attribute and characters that want to have high intelligence without casting need something now that extra languages and skill points have been taken away. A lot of what I like has already been addressed in UAs and I'd like to see more balancing and polishing done on the phoenix and sea sorcerers and primeval guardian ranger. Eventually they'll release psionics, too, and the mechanics that they've laid out with the mystic are quite promising.

[Yunru]

There's certainly a few *cough*Warlord*cough* that are both big enough conceptually to warrant a class that are missing, but what I'd like to see most (mainly because it's a slippery one to homebrew) is a caster that treats all their spells like cantrips.

Ah who am I kidding. Warlord is the one I'm missing most. Sometimes I want to break out the 4e stuff again just so I can play my Enchanter/Warlord "lazy"lord; an 80-odd year old human who uses a cane and is completely harmless, honest.

[Bjarkmundur]

The hidden link is a DC 15 perception or investigation check made as a part of the search action.

[Yunru]

Hi

without third party material?

:P

Stupid must have at least blah blah blah... making me type all of this just to post a message.

[Misterwhisper]

A fighter duelist subclass

A fighting style for thrown weapons

A specific weapon specialist

[ZorroGames]

I'm happy with where the classes are. I'd like to see a noncaster with Int as a secondary attribute (not hexblade-but-for-Int though). It's probably the weakest attribute and characters that want to have high intelligence without casting need something now that extra languages and skill points have been taken away. A lot of what I like has already been addressed in UAs and I'd like to see more balancing and polishing done on the phoenix and sea sorcerers and primeval guardian ranger. Eventually they'll release psionics, too, and the mechanics that they've laid out with the mystic are quite promising.

Yes, the IN is only for Wizards school misses the IN based skills benefit least currently IMO.

[Teaguethebean]

Honestly if you wanna be a warlord in 5e yall should take a gander at the order domain cleric it fills that roll perfectly my brother is playing one who makes our swashbuckler do insane damage

[Man_Over_Game]

• Blood Mage. Closest you could get is some kind of Warding Bond use with Heavy Armor Master. Life Transference kinda does this, but there's nothing that synergizes with it (and necromancers do it worse).
• A Transmutation Warrior that enchants his weapons and gear with special buffs. The Eldritch Knight can kinda do this, but most of the EK's strengths are in defense.
• A Warrior that uses both Dexterity and Strength.

[Tharkun]

Pure Shapeshifter. Ala Mavin Manyshaped.

[Bjarkmundur]

• A Transmutation Warrior that enchants his weapons and gear with special buffs. The Eldritch Knight can kinda do this, but most of the EK's strengths are in defense.

Would swapping spell list do the trick (as suggested in the DMG)? or are you thinking more along the lines of a class/subclass dedicated to the concept?

I'm doing a continued discussion for this thread over at the Homebrew Forum if you're interested.

[Karnitis]

You can take my suggestion with a heavy grain of salt as Sorlock seems repetitive/boring to me. I like wizard as a INT-based, dedicated scholar. I like bard as a CHA-based caster who just kind of fell into magic. Sorlock (mechanically, not thematically) overuses CHA and makes multi-classing a gimme even when it shouldn't necessarily make sense thematically.

So with that said, I want a CON-based caster and a 2nd INT caster (Artificer kind of counts, but its UA not official). Wisdom gets Druid/Cleric, Charisma should get Bard/Warlock, Constitution *should* be Sorcerer and then Intelligence gets its share of half casters (EK, AT).

I also want an Elementalist - like an Evoker/Four Elements monk combo yes I want the Avatar what of it. Someone who specifically gets boosts for using fire/ice/thunder/etc spells, but it bulkier than a wizard. So...druid, but without the requirement of a nature-focus or Wildshape.

[Max_Killjoy]

With 5e being pretty all-encompassing for the fantasy genre,

I'd seriously question this assertion. D&D-the-system does D&D-like settings... it's nothing like a broad coverage of the fantasy genre.

There are a plethora of setting concepts, progression patterns, character types, etc, that it doesn't really cover.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

You can take my suggestion with a heavy grain of salt as Sorlock seems repetitive/boring to me. I like wizard as a INT-based, dedicated scholar. I like bard as a CHA-based caster who just kind of fell into magic. Sorlock (mechanically, not thematically) overuses CHA and makes multi-classing a gimme even when it shouldn't necessarily make sense thematically.

So with that said, I want a CON-based caster and a 2nd INT caster (Artificer kind of counts, but its UA not official). Wisdom gets Druid/Cleric, Charisma should get Bard/Warlock, Constitution *should* be Sorcerer and then Intelligence gets its share of half casters (EK, AT).

I also want an Elementalist - like an Evoker/Four Elements monk combo yes I want the Avatar what of it. Someone who specifically gets boosts for using fire/ice/thunder/etc spells, but it bulkier than a wizard. So...druid, but without the requirement of a nature-focus or Wildshape.

I think there's an understandable reluctance to put HP and one of the best saving throws and casting on the same stat.

The elementalist might (maybe, one day) be covered by the wu-jen mystic subclass, which has at-will elemental damage and many other elemental effects.

[Spiritchaser]

A melee controller/de buffer. Conquest paladin does this, and does it well, but it lives in a very narrow conceptual space, and there’s lots of mechanical room for variations on this play style as well.

An arcane half caster Gish. This will likely be the battle smith.

[TyGuy]

A specific weapon specialist

The ball was dropped so hard with kensei that it's not even considered a poorly implemented weapon specialist.

There's a feat, but not much of a cohesive anti-mage archetype option.

There are archetypes that can get by with what's available, but don't have support to be mechanically great or completely true to theme. Like the dual wield berserker.

[Yunru]

The ball was dropped so hard with kensei that it's not even considered a poorly implemented weapon specialist.

It gets better if you let Flurry of Blows and Martial Art's bonus action attacks work with Monk weapons, not just unarmed strikes.

Not a whole let better, but at least you're on par with the regular Monk and using your weapon of choice.

Something else I do for all Monks that would also work for just Kensei is allowing improvised weapons to be Monk weapons.

[Man_Over_Game]

Would swapping spell list do the trick (as suggested in the DMG)? or are you thinking more along the lines of a class/subclass dedicated to the concept?

I'm doing a continued discussion for this thread over at the Homebrew Forum if you're interested.

I'll respond to this thread, for now, so that links on the homebrew page get more visibility.

I'd say that replacing Abjuration and Evocation with Transmutation and Conjuration would work perfectly.

What the Eldritch Knight does naturally is add some teleportation and mix in attacks with his spells. The problem is, Evocation doesn't really add anything to that concept (and doesn't scale well with the Eldritch Knight), and the Abjuration spells don't actually help the Eldritch Knight as much as they help literally ANY Fighter.

It doesn't feel like a subclass with features. It feels like a Fighter with Shield and Absorb Elements. Replace the defensive aspects with some really cool mobility/control ones, and I'd bet you see Eldritch Knights being more than a generic Fighter with high defenses.

To give some insight as to what I mean, here are the Wizard spells for Transmutation and Conjuration:

Level 1:

• Grease
• Unseen Servant
• Floating Disk
• Unseen Servant
• Fog Cloud
• Feather Fall
• Expeditious Retreat
• Longstrider
• Jump

Level 2:

• Flaming Sphere
• Misty Step
• Web
• Darkvision
• Enlarge/Reduce
• Alter Self
• Knock
• Levitate
• Magic Weapon
• Rope Trick
• Spider Climb

Level 3:

• Sleet Storm
• Stinking Cloud
• Water Breathing
• Gaseous Form
• Fly
• Haste
• Blink
• Slow

To give you a comparison, here are the Wizar's Evocation/Abjuration spells that don't use a saving throw:

Level 1:

• Magic Missile
• Alarm
• Mage Armor
• Shield
• Protection from Evil and Good

Level 2:

• Arcane Lock
• Darkness
• Continual Flame

Level 3:

• Dispel Magic
• Counterspell
• Remove Curse
• Protection From Energy
• Magic Circle
• Sending
• Major Image

I just want to point out how dull that list is. A bunch of slow, non-combat abilities, countermagic, and a couple defensive spells. That's..about it. That's the core of the Eldritch Knight, ladies and gentlemen.

Changing the spell list for the Eldritch Knight is enough of an overhaul that you wouldn't need to do anything else.

[LtPowers]

A religion-themed bard. A pugilist. A shaman. A warlord. A friend-to-all-animals. Luck-domain cleric.

Maybe even racial cleric domains.


Powers &8^]

[Anderlith]

So far there is no

Factotum (but there is no real need for it)
Warlord (the newer rules & subclass options we’ve been seeing lately tell me that this could soon be a proper subclass of the fighter)
Divine Rogue (as of yet we have no assassins of god, either as a Cleric option or Rogue option)
Ranger (still waiting on this core class to get rules)
The Old D&D Next Sorcerer (this was a fantastic class & had a really cool idea, maybe they could call it “Binder” if it didn’t step too much on its toes)
Psion (but it’s underway)

[Naanomi]

A fighter duelist subclass

A DEX-based Battlemaster?

A religion-themed bard.

A Glamour Bard with the Acolyte background?

A shaman.

An outlander/hermit Druid (or Warlock?)

Background can do a lot with existing classes to ‘create’ concepts

[Yunru]

An outlander/hermit Druid (or Warlock?)

Background can do a lot with existing classes to ‘create’ concepts

Druid as a shaman only really works at higher levels. There's just not the spells (/spell slots) for it at lower levels.

[Man_Over_Game]

Druid as a shaman only really works at higher levels. There's just not the spells (/spell slots) for it at lower levels.

I guess that depends on what you call a "shaman".

A Swamp Land Druid might fit what you're looking for pretty well. Even comes with additional spell slots.

[Naanomi]

Druid as a shaman only really works at higher levels. There's just not the spells (/spell slots) for it at lower levels.

I guess I don’t have a good concept of what you mean by Shaman...