Spellthief/Duskblade/Kensai Supernova?

[Person_Man]

Spellthief 2/Duskblade 4/Kensai 2/Duskblade X/PrC Y

Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel): Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal.

Duskblade: An arcane caster with full BAB who can channel spells into a melee attack. He can channel spells into a full attack at 13th level (ECL 17 in this build).

Kensai: Can imbue a weapon, fists, or natural attacks with magical properties. 2 levels is enough to imbue them with the Spell Storing ability, which let's you store 0th-3rd level spells and release them as a free action when you hit your enemy. Also, you can imbue both sides of a double weapon, your fists, or natural weapons of the same type.

Gain a lot of natural weapons of the same type or a ton of fists. This is what I'm stuck on. To get the most out of this combo, you need a ton of fists or natural attacks of the same type. I'm thinking extra arms or tentacles? But getting those permanently (presumably, you can't use your Kensai ability to imbue temporary arms) involves a ton of LA and/or a huge feat investment.

Assuming you can get at least 4 fists or natural attacks of the same type, you should be able to beat the tar out of your enemies, damage them with spells, and then steal your enemies' spells to replace the ones you beat them over the head with. If your enemies are particularly tough, you can also use your Duskblade ability to channel an additional spell into your attack(s). If you don't fight a lot of spellcasters, you can always replace your spell storing slots with your own Duskblade spells, spells from wands (go UMD!), or with spells from your friends.

Also, if you can pick up an additional +1d6 of Sneak Attack, you can also take the Maiming Strike from Exemplars of Evil, and trade 2d6 of Sneak Attack to deal 1 point of Cha damage. Since this build is focused on getting a ton of attacks, its a great way to kill many monsters/enemies, who tend to have piss poor Cha, or nerf spontaneous spellcasters who need it to cast.

Ideas on how to make this combo work?

[Fax Celestis]

From my Spellthief Guide:

Girallon's Blessing (Spell; SC) + Bite of the Wererat (Spell; SC) + Unicorn's Horn (Spell; CMag) + Multiattack (Feat; MM-I) + Open Lesser Chakra (Arms) (Feat; MoI) + Shape Soulmeld (Sphinx Claws) (Feat; MoI): You don't need weapons. Girallon's Blessing and Unicorn's Horn last minutes/level, so they're not an issue. Bite of the Wererat, by the time you get it, should last for an entire combat and grants you the Weapon Finesse feat. With this, you'll be able to perform four claws, a bite, and a gore as a full-attack. Your Sphinx Claws will let you full-attack at the end of a charge. Charge into a flanking position and unleash a roar of Sneak Attacks, thieving off of each one.

Which is similar to but not quite what you're looking for. Let's start with this, though: Girallon's Blessing gives you four claws and rending damage, so that's a good start. Two level Totemist dip would allow you to get two more claw attacks, via the Girallon Arms soulmeld. Take a level of Barbarian for pounce. Be a Thri-Kreen (non-psionic is probably the best option here) for two more claw attacks.

So, so far: Thri-Kreen Spellthief 2/Duskblade 4/Kensai 2/Barbarian 1/Totemist 2/Duskblade X/PrC Y.

Eight claws and a bite--with pounce--which is a decent starting spot.

[Darrin]

Gain a lot of natural weapons[/URL] of the same type or a ton of fists. This is what I'm stuck on. To get the most out of this combo, you need a ton of fists or natural attacks of the same type. I'm thinking extra arms or tentacles? But getting those permanently (presumably, you can't use your Kensai ability to imbue temporary arms) involves a ton of LA and/or a huge feat investment.

Anthropomorphic Squid? Hmm... apparently all 8 arms are only one attack?

What about that Fang of Lolth PrC? Doesn't that get 8 attacks at some point?

[JackMage666]

You, sirs, are evil.

[Keld Denar]

Come on, this is Person_Man we are talking about...does that really need to be asked?


How about Fist of the Forest in there? That gives you flurry.

On a side note, my favorite is the warforged monk/kensi with versitile strike who upgrades his fists to +1 THROWING RETURNING VORPAL ROCKET FISTS OF DOOM!

[kemmotar]

Thought at all about half far spawn?you could do something really nasty with that, though i suspect the LA is gonna put you off...i'm pretty sure you can get a few more tentacles on that and since its a template you can add it to the thi-kreen for more illithid like experiment fun ...who knows make it a mindflayer too

[dyslexicfaser]

Rocket punch? That is friggin' awesome.

[Jasdoif]

What about a hydra? With a template that increases its Intelligence score.

[Fax Celestis]

What about a hydra? With a template that increases its Intelligence score.

Like, um....Hm. Oh! Nonepic Pseudonatural?

[kemmotar]

Multiheaded creature template needs a quite large size for a max number of heads 29 heads thus 29 bite attacks plus any more natural attacks...nice part is you get an extra +29 modifier to you con*happy faces*happy faces*....add pyro creature for 29 fire breathing attacks....aint that nice?add kensai to all that for your bite attacks...impr natural attack and full attacks...

[Cogwheel]

Race? Changeling.

Class? Warshaper.Great one level dip, and morphic weapons allows for, if you can stomach the penalty, infinite natural weapons. Yeah, it's nasty like that, in the hands of a munchkin.

[AslanCross]

A side question: What does "supernova" mean in this sense? The "nova" nomenclature was also brought up on the psionics discussion thread and I haven't been able to find any clues as to what it means, though it suggests blowing up stuff.

[Fax Celestis]

A "nova" is what happens when a star dies. A "supernova" is when one dies violently.

[Zeful]

Well wouldn't that three armed race (thrikeen I think?) with the multiweapon feat chain (multiweapon fighting, improved and greater versions) combined with one level of monk and then the Kensai levels work, you'd get 14ish attacks and then, if you can swing it, throw on the speed enhancement to your natural weapons to give you another attack(s), or get the bodyfeeder psionic ability, with the insane number of attacks you get fully recharged every full attack.

But I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[kemmotar]

A "nova" is what happens when a star dies. A "supernova" is when one dies violently.

which is exactly what will be the outcome of this character's attack once this thread is finished with him...someone is going to die...very violently too...

BTW...i don't think the speed enhancement stacks in more than one weapon...you're better off getting boost of haste...they only cost 12000.

[Jasdoif]

Like, um....Hm. Oh! Nonepic Pseudonatural?

Sure. Celestial or Fiendish would work, too.

[AslanCross]

A "nova" is what happens when a star dies. A "supernova" is when one dies violently.

Okay, that's pretty self-explanatory, I guess.

[Yuki Akuma]

A "nova" is what happens when a star dies. A "supernova" is when one dies violently.

And a 'hypernova' is what happens when a supermassive star dies violently...

Not that we've ever seen that happen, but it sounds cool. >.>

[Chronos]

And a 'hypernova' is what happens when a supermassive star dies violently...

Not that we've ever seen that happen, but it sounds cool. >.>

We might have. Hypernovae are the most likely explanation for one type of gamma ray burst (the so-called "long duration" ones, which last for 10 seconds or so). Sorry, catgirls.


More on topic, as I understand it, a "nova" is when a character expends a great amount of power all at once, possibly to the creature's own detriment, and certainly leaving it underpowered for anything else it might need to do that day.

[Person_Man]

Some funny and good ideas here, and a science side conversation as well. Go team nerd!

Back on topic, it's worth re-iterating that the tricky part isn't getting a lot of attacks. Getting 5+ attacks isn't too difficult. And doing so with a character that has at least 13 levels of Duskblade pretty much ensures a high damage output.

The goal is to get as many fists or natural weapons of the same type. That way, each can be enchanted with Spell Storing for a relatively cheap cost via the Kensai ability. This allows you unparalleled attack flexibility in addition to raw damage output.

For example, a Thri-Kreen using this build could store four 0-3rd level spells, from any spell list, which it can release as a free action whenever it hits someone, in addition to its channeled spell (and a Swift Action spell). And the spells stored in its arms can be replenished by Sneak Attacking your enemy, or by borrowing it from your friends, or from your Duskblade list, or by buying wands/scrolls. And you can during or after every single combat.

Getting additional attacks and/or temporary arms/whatever (via Girillion's Blessing or Warshaper or something similar) isn't really my goal. Yes, doing so would increase your damage output from insane to mind-boggling. But really, its the extra flexibility of being able to store more spells that I'm looking for.

Thri-Kreen looks like the most reasonable way of doing this. Anything that requires a heavy class investment (Fang of Lolth, Binder) is out. Although the meat of the spellstoring combo does kick in as early as Spellthief 2/Duskblade 4/Kensai 2, you need to keep going with a class that adds arcane caster levels for your Steal Spell ability to stay useful.

Again, thanks for the ideas. Are there any others?

[Fax Celestis]

Its' the arcane caster levels that's the tough part. Is there something that advances Wild Shape and arcane casting at the same time? If there is, one can do the Rukanyr + Girallon Arms thing for eight claw attacks, potentially more with the right feats.

Alternatively, Voidmind Half-Farspawn with five feats into Illithid Heritage has seven tentacle attacks. There's probably a way to get yourself more rather easily.

EDIT: Wait. Voidmind Half-Farspawn Elan with Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike. You have seven tentacles with iterative attacks.

[namo]

Its' the arcane caster levels that's the tough part. Is there something that advances Wild Shape and arcane casting at the same time?

That would be the Arcane Hierophant (Races of the Wild).

[Person_Man]

Maybe:

Spellthief 1/Druid 5/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 3/Kensai 2

Wildshape into a Rukanyr. Enchant your 6 claws with Spell Storing via Kensai. Although you only have access to 4th level Druid and 3rd level Wizard spells at ECL 14, when you attack you can release 6 spells in 1 round. Your Rukanyr form is pretty snazzy for combat in general. You can steal up to 3rd level spells. UMD is on your Skill list. And the build isn't race dependent, has no LA, and uses commonly accepted PrC. Heck, you don't even need Abberation Wild Shape - you can just turn into a Giant Octopus or Squid (8 or 10 tentacles) and cast Fly on yourself.

Interestingly enough, your build will also suck rocks when you're not in Rukanyr form, giving it an interesting roleplaying spin. (Bob, could you please not turn into the beast from the pit while we're in a bar fight. It really bugs the locals.)

Tentacles via Voidmind and Half Far Spawn sound like a great idea, but there's a ton of LA involved.

Now the real trick - convincing a DM to let you play this build...