Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

[Cikomyr]

Well, then Kaiden was a romance option...And from what little of Mass Effect I've played, I am so not surprised that people wanted to bang bird man over him. Bleh.

Personally, I don't mind having a character with different options, and you DID say tiefling...

I played Femshep in my play through, and I shot down Kaiden quicker and harder than I ever did an NPC. But not because of his personality.

Because I was his flippin' CO

On a scale of "inappropriate behavior", flirting and seeking a relationship with your CO is a 12 out of 10

[Kish]

The one thing that particularly sticks out (negatively) to me about the added romance options in the BG Enhanced Editions is this: not only are all of the added same-sex options Evil-aligned, all of the added Evil-aligned characters are same-sex romance options, which I feel brings it even further into the 'unfortunate implications' territory. (Neera in particular makes me ask "why did they think we needed another exclusive M/F romance option when that's the only combination we had several of in the original version?")

Indeed, but Siege of Dragonspear adds the very cool Schael Corwin, bisexual Lawful Good archer.

[Rodin]

Well, then Kaiden was a romance option...And from what little of Mass Effect I've played, I am so not surprised that people wanted to bang bird man over him. Bleh.

Personally, I don't mind having a character with different options, and you DID say tiefling...

To be fair to Kaiden, Garrus is easily the best romanceable companion I've seen in a game. I'm straight and I still might pick Garrus if given my choice of Normandy crew members to marry. Tali does come close though.

Also to be fair to Kaiden, Ashley wasn't much more interesting. And neither were as bad as Miranda.

[SerTabris]

Indeed, but Siege of Dragonspear adds the very cool Schael Corwin, bisexual Lawful Good archer.

That's good to hear. Thanks!

[Spore]

On a scale of "inappropriate behavior", flirting and seeking a relationship with your CO is a 12 out of 10

Uhm, Shepard in general is setting a TERRIBLE example I feel. Never played ME (don't hound me, if I wanted to play a shooter masked as an RPG, I'd continue Farcry 3).

[Honest Tiefling]

On a scale of "inappropriate behavior", flirting and seeking a relationship with your CO is a 12 out of 10

Where's punching a reporter, sleeping with a criminal and engaging in sexual acts that might impair your health during a mission score on this scale, by the way?

[Cazero]

Where's punching a reporter, sleeping with a criminal and engaging in sexual acts that might impair your health during a mission score on this scale, by the way?

Punching a reporter would be relatively low since it mostly affects PR, and the sex things would always be ridiculously high since it's evidence of a complete lack of basic discipline.
And that's why romance in games never sit right to me. The vast majority of those game present a crisis situation that needs constant and full attention, and while being distracted by some booty may be outside of your control, pursuing that distraction is a bloody stupid risk. Just keep it in your pants for one goddamn week and get to the wooing after the world is saved.

[Aotrs Commander]

Punching a reporter would be relatively low since it mostly affects PR, and the sex things would always be ridiculously high since it's evidence of a complete lack of basic discipline.
And that's why romance in games never sit right to me. The vast majority of those game present a crisis situation that needs constant and full attention, and while being distracted by some booty may be outside of your control, pursuing that distraction is a bloody stupid risk. Just keep it in your pants for one goddamn week and get to the wooing after the world is saved.

But to be fair, that is no different to most other fiction in any media. If the romance doesn't happen as part of the story, it wouldn't happen at all. (I suspect given the... often vicious backlash against romance in computers games¹ that the number of people willing to play an epilogue act that was just a romance might be fairly small.

(Granted, doing that WOULD be kind of cool - I'd play it.)



I think part of the problem is that too many fictional romances set-up for "and then they kiss/bang/get married" and completely ignore the rest of it; games in particular are very bad at having "and then you bang" and that's it. ME trilogy at least managed to get passed that by dint of having about 150 hours to play with. Thing is, D:OS 2 was about 150 hours playtime, so they kind could do a better job, one feels, in that regard, and I felt they seemed to do a little better job than most.

One wonders of they might not do better to, maybe, try wrapping up THAT phase of the romance, like, MUCH earlier in the game than before the last act, and then having, like... MORE interaction thereafter. Might be worth a try, somewhere, right?



¹But never against the inevitably brothel, even when the game literally gives you sometimes substantial mechanical bonuses for paying for sex with sex workers.

(I always had to make a very derisive snort when some people on the Obsidian forums got up on their high-horses about how PoE 1 was so much more mature than Bioware for not having romances which they compared to spank-fodder, while simultaneously ignoring that "prostitutes give you better stats" was in the game, which was something Bioware didn't do, for their other sins...)

[Cikomyr]

Where's punching a reporter, sleeping with a criminal and engaging in sexual acts that might impair your health during a mission score on this scale, by the way?

I didn't do any of these things. That's the thing, I played my Shepherd as a true professional member of the military.

I allowed the thing with Liana only because she was a civilian guest on board.

[Morty]

Since when has the world's imminent end stopped people in fiction from engaging in romance? Many people like romance stories, including (or especially so) in video games. Others don't. I don't see any reason to make a big deal out of it, myself.

[Honest Tiefling]

But to be fair, that is no different to most other fiction in any media. If the romance doesn't happen as part of the story, it wouldn't happen at all. (I suspect given the... often vicious backlash against romance in computers games¹ that the number of people willing to play an epilogue act that was just a romance might be fairly small.

(Granted, doing that WOULD be kind of cool - I'd play it.)

Given how much Winthur complains about the romantic epilogue and that I have to double down on interest in an epilogue, I don't know if it would really be unwanted in a Bioware-ish game. I mean, you could even have a romanceless one where people come and speak to you after you help them. I didn't reload the game after dying fifty times not to be appreciated, after all.

¹But never against the inevitably brothel, even when the game literally gives you sometimes substantial mechanical bonuses for paying for sex with sex workers.

Now I feel as if I must play this game just to see how bad BG:III Sexier Edition might be...

(I always had to make a very derisive snort when some people on the Obsidian forums got up on their high-horses about how PoE 1 was so much more mature than Bioware for not having romances which they compared to spank-fodder, while simultaneously ignoring that "prostitutes give you better stats" was in the game, which was something Bioware didn't do, for their other sins...)

Maybe the game with the random green guy in the thigh-highs standing next to a near topless woman wasn't the most mature thing in the world.

[Winthur]

Given how much Winthur complains about the romantic epilogue

Clarification, it's just Rasaad that has the stupidest romantic epilogue. I'm mostly satisfied with every other epilogue in BG2, except Viconia's for similar reasons, but Viconia's romance is actually compelling and doesn't force you to suspend your disbelief at the idea that you're flirting with and romancing a deadweight character. For what it's worth, I also liked the way romances are handled in games like DA:O, but I also see why, for example, Chris Avellone hates writing them.

[Kaptin Keen]

Since when has the world's imminent end stopped people in fiction from engaging in romance?

Or IRL. I was taught in school that at pretty much no point in history were more children conceived than during the second world war. I cannot entirely promise that this is true - but I can promise that it is what I was taught.

[Cikomyr]

Or IRL. I was taught in school that at pretty much no point in history were more children conceived than during the second world war. I cannot entirely promise that this is true - but I can promise that it is what I was taught.

Wasn't that at the return from WW2?

[Calemyr]

Clarification, it's just Rasaad that has the stupidest romantic epilogue. I'm mostly satisfied with every other epilogue in BG2, except Viconia's for similar reasons, but Viconia's romance is actually compelling and doesn't force you to suspend your disbelief at the idea that you're flirting with and romancing a deadweight character. For what it's worth, I also liked the way romances are handled in games like DA:O, but I also see why, for example, Chris Avellone hates writing them.

Yeah. Rasaad's epilogues all suck. He dies in every ending where he doesn't betray his faith, and you die with him if you're romantically linked. In all three outcomes, Algorath gets away free and clear. Well, except for the romantic ending: Algorath is now going to have to contend with seven trained monks with a desire for vengeance. Yes, seven. Their relationship was apparently quite fruitful.

Viconia's is a somewhat different story. She dies in the romance ending, yes, but the others are (particularly the neutral ending) pretty good, with a neutral Viconia adventuring alongside Drizzt. That said, there's a poignancy to her romance ending that makes her my canon LI for the trilogy.

Spoiler: My canon

Show

If I had gone through with my "Road from Candlekeep" story, she would have been the LI. Since the story was structured as a bard researching events after the fact, the finale would have been a return to Baldur's Gate, where the Bard (brought here by Imoen) would attend a state funeral for Viconia, who was Abdel's wife in all but title. As the ceremony ends, Abdel solemnly draws his weapon and hands another to his half-drow son before leaving the event in silence. Imoen then explains that they are going to war with a goddess and wishes the bard well before leaving to join them.

To be honest, I would much rather have "friendships" in RPGs than romances. The party should be a "Band of Brothers" scenario, with everyone having each other's back, not "My Bedmate and Some Expendable Extras". One reason I'd prefer that is then I am not limiting to one meaningful companion per run to avoid feeling skeezy. BG2 did a pretty good job at it, which is why I always come back to it, as did Mass Effect by and large. Not sure I'd have a romantic interest in Tali, but she makes an awesome friend. Same goes for Garrus, of course. Honestly, there are few companions in any of the ME trilogy that I wouldn't want to chill with at, say, a barbeque on a fine weekend in summer. Morinth and ME2 Jack are really the only exceptions I can think of. I mean, the Citidel DLC for ME3 cements that they're a solid group. (Really, that's the best DLC I think I've ever played.)

[Winthur]

Wasn't that at the return from WW2?

It could be both. I'd wager that the stress-relief aspects of sex can't really be underestimated when you can be bombed at any time, and if you can evaporate in a single attack, you might as well take some risks and enjoy yourselves.

Morbid jokes aside, with programs like the Lebensborn and the shameful history of rapes all throughout the conflict (from concentration camp brothels sex slave pens to the stuff that happened during occupation) I wouldn't be surprised if KaptinKeen wasn't technically taught it correctly. The 1944 Family Law in the Soviet Union aimed at penalizing abortion and divorces while the state propaganda trumpeted motherhood as the #1 way for women to "do their part", uplifting single mothers left without a male partner (due to the massive losses on the frontline) with certain benefits, but also even aimed at rewarding men for... sleeping around by preventing said mothers from suing unfaithful husbands for child support.

I think that the strict "baby boom" of soldiers returning from war might have primarily been a Western world thing.

[Bashhammer]

So, uh, this might be a bit off-topic, but considering this is the only Baldur's Gate thread I can find on the board I'mma risk it.

Any of you guys knowledgeable aboot 2nd edition know if fighter/druids are allowed to wear the red/blue dragon armors? I know they can wear the ankheg plate, but I can't find any info on those two.

I ask because I'm gonna do a run with Jaheira using those types that a tabletop fighter/druid can wear and it'd be nice to have something better than ankheg for her.

[Keltest]

So, uh, this might be a bit off-topic, but considering this is the only Baldur's Gate thread I can find on the board I'mma risk it.

Any of you guys knowledgeable aboot 2nd edition know if fighter/druids are allowed to wear the red/blue dragon armors? I know they can wear the ankheg plate, but I can't find any info on those two.

I ask because I'm gonna do a run with Jaheira using those types that a tabletop fighter/druid can wear and it'd be nice to have something better than ankheg for her.

I... think so? Specifically, they cant wear metal armor, because druids were silly back then, but I don't believe that the dragon scale armor counts as metal.

[Winthur]

I... think so? Specifically, they cant wear metal armor, because druids were silly back then, but I don't believe that the dragon scale armor counts as metal.

For F/Ds specifically, there's no Druid ethos for metal armor, just for weapons. So, Jaheira can even wear full plate mail, so she can also wear red / blue dragon mails, no problems.

[Bashhammer]

For F/Ds specifically, there's no Druid ethos for metal armor, just for weapons. So, Jaheira can even wear full plate mail, so she can also wear red / blue dragon mails, no problems.

Pretty sure I've read somewhere that tabletop fighter/druids can't wear metal. I just wanna know if the dragon scale armors get around that like the ankheg one.

[Spore]

Just check the the restrictions on the BGwiki there is a system behind it but technically each item is flagged either as usable by x except y OR no one except z.

[Divayth Fyr]

Just check the the restrictions on the BGwiki there is a system behind it but technically each item is flagged either as usable by x except y OR no one except z.

True, but from what I read on several boards (don't remember how it was myself, haven't played in years), fighter/druids inherit the weapon restrictions, but not the armor ones - which makes them capable of using any armor.

[Morty]

I'm pretty sure Fighter/Druids can wear any armor they please, yeah.

[Winthur]

Pretty sure I've read somewhere that tabletop fighter/druids can't wear metal. I just wanna know if the dragon scale armors get around that like the ankheg one.

Baldur's Gate isn't a game particularly faithful to tabletop. Fighter/Druids get to wear all the armor that isn't class or person-restricted, unless you mean Shapeshifter or Avenger dual.

[Bashhammer]

Baldur's Gate isn't a game particularly faithful to tabletop. Fighter/Druids get to wear all the armor that isn't class or person-restricted, unless you mean Shapeshifter or Avenger dual.

Oh, I'm quite aware of that fact. I'm just trying to see if these semi-arbitrary restrictions I'm giving myself have some basis in the tabletop version. Most of this is to try and change some stuff up, since most of the time I have Jaheira in the second best plate I can find. Though now that I think aboot it, putting her in the red or blue plate kinda defeats that purpose. Oh well.

I'm also limiting Minsc to leather/studded leather type armors so he can stealth. Yeah, I know non-stalker ranger stealth sucks, I wanna poke around with it.

(On an unrelated note, actually talking to someone aboot this game who has played it and has some knowledge aboot it is fantastic and I thank you guys for it.)

[J-H]

Everyone can wear the AC 1 Shadow Dragon Leather.

[LibraryOgre]

In Tabletop, a Fighter/Druid cannot wear metal armor but, IME, most DMs allow exotic hide armors (like dragon armor).

In IE games (BG, IWD, etc.), Fighter/Druids can wear anything allowed to fighters or druids.

[Bashhammer]

Everyone can wear the AC 1 Shadow Dragon Leather.

Yeah, but there's only one of those and it's going to Minsc. Anyway, thanks guys, you have convinced my brain to let Jaheira have the dragon armors.

One last thing. I've beaten TOB twice before, both full "trilogy" runs, but both of those were when I still thought using CNTRL-F whenever things when pear-shaped was ok. In a normal game how difficult would it be if Jaheira was the only divine caster in the group?

[Winthur]

One last thing. I've beaten TOB twice before, both full "trilogy" runs, but both of those were when I still thought using CNTRL-F whenever things when pear-shaped was ok. In a normal game how difficult would it be if Jaheira was the only divine caster in the group?

According to all rules of aviation powergaming, divine casters are among the lowest priority characters in any party, right next to thieves; most playstyles will be definitely happy with just a half-druid, particularly since ToB is the era of Rods of Resurrection. That, and Jaheira is a Druid, so she scales much better than Clerics (who kinda peak at around level 14 and suffer from simply not having that many great HLAs to pick from) into late game, particularly due to the insane power of Greater Elemental Summoning, Nature's Beauty, Ironskins and, naturally, Insect Plague.

In ToB, Jaheira hits a massive spellcasting powerspike at 6,000,000 XP, which means her available spellslots go from 29 to 42, at which point her ability to cast skyrockets. In fact, Jaheira is probably at her strongest in ToB, when her Fighter HLAs kick in at full potential (Hardiness + Armor of Faith after her Ironskins are brought down, Greater Whirlwind to synergize with Staff of the Ram, or alternately Spectral Brand / Club of Detonation + Belm +2 in the off-hand combined with Improved Haste and Critical Strike).

So yes, you should be more than fine. Jaheira's scaling issues are firmly pre-ToB, because as a multi-class Druid she gets stuck at level 14 for a long time. However, there are enough potions of extra healing for everyone, regeneration items spawn in BG2 as well as items providing clerical immunities to spells, and Call Woodland Beings allows her to summon an additional healbot. She is still a solid contributor simply because of how good Insect Plague is.

[Spore]

Other than Jaheira being a tad boring to play at the end of SoA I dont see anything noteworthy about her.

If you want issues with a char, try MCing an 9th level fighter during the Underdark chapters.