Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

[Willie the Duck]

A bunch of high level fighters would pretty much only be hitting that AC on a crit. Its hard to overstate just how difficult a -10 AC is to hit.

That was certainly the intent. However, when and if it was the case seems to always be arguable based on what power level was being played. Between up to +5 for weapon, gauntlets of ogre power or girdle of giant strength (or even just a good 18/percentile strength score), +3 for double specialization (if 1st edition with Unearthed Arcana), and maybe a +1 or two from somewhere else, armor class was never a sure thing.

On the other hand, that incarnation of Lolth was in a mid-level adventure, and one which absolutely chewed you up (given how deadly drow were in 1e), so you probably were limping into that fight with not a lot left in the gas tank. Regardless, it does show off the differences that 66 HP looks like to a modern gamer (paltry) to what it looked like BITD (a challenge, if not the worst anyone had ever seen).

[Cikomyr]

A bunch of high level fighters would pretty much only be hitting that AC on a crit. Its hard to overstate just how difficult a -10 AC is to hit.

Fireball

Fireball

Lightning Bolt

Everything that doesn't require to beat AC. And even high quality fighters could hit at least half the time with the right bonuses to hit, magical weaponries, etc..

I mean, she looks like a boss challenge for a level.. 11-13 party? À level 20 party would walk over Lolth.

[Kish]

I'm going to play(semi?) devil's advocate here.

The only experience I have with AD&D is Baldur's Gate 2 and its add on.

So you have no experience with AD&D. Not even with a facsimile, where 1ed is concerned.

BG2 throws artifact-level gear at the player, and enemies who are built for that expectation. Basing arguments about AD&D on it is only marginally better than basing them on Diablo.

[Keltest]

Fireball

Fireball

Lightning Bolt

Everything that doesn't require to beat AC. And even high quality fighters could hit at least half the time with the right bonuses to hit, magical weaponries, etc..

I mean, she looks like a boss challenge for a level.. 11-13 party? À level 20 party would walk over Lolth.

Adding some more perspective, im going to translate this into 3.5 terms for easy understanding. Level scaling in AD&D 1.0 stopped around 10 ish for most classes, at which point they just accumulated a couple more HP per level. It varied a bit, but a level 20 character for that edition would be the equivalent of about a level 30-40 character in 3.5

Also, she has 70% magic resistance.

[Cikomyr]

Adding some more perspective, im going to translate this into 3.5 terms for easy understanding. Level scaling in AD&D 1.0 stopped around 10 ish for most classes, at which point they just accumulated a couple more HP per level. It varied a bit, but a level 20 character for that edition would be the equivalent of about a level 30-40 character in 3.5

Also, she has 70% magic resistance.

I remember the same thing happened in 2nd edition. But in 2nd, there as still a spell and attack progression for wizards, clerics, fighters, etc... Same for Ad&D?

Well noted for msgic resistance. I still think it's doable.

[Keltest]

I remember the same thing happened in 2nd edition. But in 2nd, there as still a spell and attack progression for wizards, clerics, fighters, etc... Same for Ad&D?

Well noted for msgic resistance. I still think it's doable.

I mean sure, its not literally impossible, but to be able to do it reliably you either need overwhelming numbers or absurdly high level and overgeared characters.

[Willie the Duck]

Petty revenge plot is super-sitcommy, and I kinda like the return to wacky hijinks trend we seem to be headed down.

[AvatarVecna]

FWIW weren't most classes not really getting much more than HP after level 10, with wizard being basically the only exception? And more than a few classes that had things to gain beyond 10th had a "we can only have so many people above level 10 so if you wanna level up you're gonna need to challenge the title holder to a lethal duel" thing going on? I'm sure a truly epic wizard could give Lolth what for if he could get past the magic resistance enough, but the idea of "oh I'm just gonna get a handful of high-level fighters" is like...what? No you're not. There's not that many fighters of that caliber in 1000 miles of each other anywhere on the planet, unless you've got an epic quest to attract them like flies you get like 1 max.

And that's just to defeat what looks like an Aspect Of Lolth; if the XP entry is any indication, a tougher version is her "attempting to destroy the world as we know it" form.

[Willie the Duck]

FWIW weren't most classes not really getting much more than HP after level 10, with wizard being basically the only exception?

Wizards are no exception. They get 1hp/level after name level. Fighters get 3hp/level. Everyone plateaus where HP are concerned.

And more than a few classes that had things to gain beyond 10th had a "we can only have so many people above level 10 so if you wanna level up you're gonna need to challenge the title holder to a lethal duel" thing going on?

Only druids and monks/mystics.

I'm sure a truly epic wizard could give Lolth what for if he could get past the magic resistance enough, but the idea of "oh I'm just gonna get a handful of high-level fighters" is like...what? No you're not. There's not that many fighters of that caliber in 1000 miles of each other anywhere on the planet, unless you've got an epic quest to attract them like flies you get like 1 max.

I'm really not sure what your point is. High level characters are rare? That's true of both fighters and wizards.

And that's just to defeat what looks like an Aspect Of Lolth; if the XP entry is any indication, a tougher version is her "attempting to destroy
the world as we know it" form.

Yes, this is a version of Lolth appropriate to the adventure (which is not a 20+ level adventure, or anything like that).

Is this really important enough that we need to derail the Questionable Content Webcomic thread over, given that 51-90% of this site is RPG-dedicated?

[Rodin]

Is this really important enough that we need to derail the Questionable Content Webcomic thread over, given that 51-90% of this site is RPG-dedicated?

But if we stop now, how will we ever determine the AC of that butt implant?

[Max_Killjoy]

Is this really important enough that we need to derail the Questionable Content Webcomic thread over, given that 51-90% of this site is RPG-dedicated?

I'm glad someone else said it this time... I was biting my tongue.

~~~~

This reminds me of the coffee shop around here that used to have a sign up that read as follows:
"Children left unattended will be given a triple espresso and a puppy."

[Rodin]

This reminds me of the coffee shop around here that used to have a sign up that read as follows:
"Children left unattended will be given a triple espresso and a puppy."

I'm put in mind of the Ferret Cannon from Sluggy Freelance, which was a cardboard tube with Pixie Sticks in one end and a hyperactive ferret in the other.

[Morquard]

Never seen anyone react to coffee like that...

[Wraith]

Never seen anyone react to coffee like that...

A personal anecdote: I almost never drank coffee in my teens, from about 13 to 23 or so, until one day I just really, really felt like a cappuccino; That night I couldn't sleep, due to being so wired that I was having hallucinations of phantom limbs.

So, y'know. Caffeine does weird things to people who aren't used to it. Probably doesn't help that Sam is pretty hyperactive at the best of times.

[Traab]

Never seen anyone react to coffee like that...

Its a fairly standard trope of how to display being hypercaffinated. You see it in girl genius when agatha had her first cup of coffee as well. I treat it as a comic/cartoon logic like the banana peel. Nobody does a full backflip after stepping on a banana peel and yet every time in fiction someone steps on one they take ballistic flight.

[Cikomyr]

Never seen anyone react to coffee like that...

I am Canadian. I really like Tim Horton's dark roast blend.

One day, I went to the Tim right around the corner to get a large coffee, and they tell me there none ready at the moment. I look, an I see something pouring, so I told them I'll happily wait until it's ready.

Well, that one was the decaf. No worry, I'll just wait until they start the new one. The girl who served me at the counter felt bad for me, and when she started to brew the Dark Roast blend, she put my cup directly under the machine so I wouldn't have to wait the entire brewing process.

The result was the purest, most concentrated cup of caffeine I've ever drank. I kid you know, I was shaking a little bit in my seat. I couldn't focus on one thing for long, and i felt like being an ADHD kid.

I crashed after about an hour later.

[Mith]

I am Canadian. I really like Tim Horton's dark roast blend.

One day, I went to the Tim right around the corner to get a large coffee, and they tell me there none ready at the moment. I look, an I see something pouring, so I told them I'll happily wait until it's ready.

Well, that one was the decaf. No worry, I'll just wait until they start the new one. The girl who served me at the counter felt bad for me, and when she started to brew the Dark Roast blend, she put my cup directly under the machine so I wouldn't have to wait the entire brewing process.

The result was the purest, most concentrated cup of caffeine I've ever drank. I kid you know, I was shaking a little bit in my seat. I couldn't focus on one thing for long, and i felt like being an ADHD kid.

I crashed after about an hour later.

Only way to get a good cup from Timmies.

I kid, I just usually buy coffee from local small shops instead of chains.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm hypersensitive to caffeine - a single cup of coffee will have me start twitching and then having heart palpitations and panic attacks.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm hypersensitive to caffeine - a single cup of coffee will have me start twitching and then having heart palpitations and panic attacks.

Yeap, response isn't reliable across the population -- I'd need to chug a gallon of strong coffee to get to that point.

[Eldan]

I reacted that way when I First drank coffee. Not literally shaking, but my ADD flared up massively. I couldn't concentrate on anything, I was constantly looking around, couldn't sit still, had to walk around. Just totally restless.

Now I'm barely functional without coffee, and get massive pounding headaches and nausea if I go 24 hours without.

[Dukkai]

Now, I have a strong urge to post that Amateurs meme in response to these Tim Hortons & Co coffee references :D

I'm from the Balkans and coffee here is somewhat of a religion, where it is made from freshly ground beans with a somewhat strict preparation process in a special pot. Now, that is STRONG coffee.
I have tried the McD coffee, Starbucks coffee and several other fast food brand coffee's over the years and they all seem a bit watered down compared to the real thing.

If the one from Tim Horton's gives you the shakes, the real stuff would probably put you in hospital then.. XD

[Evil DM Mark3]

Hmm, maybe there is a pot/kettle colouration issue here with bedside manner...
I hate coffee, support tea, the superior beverage.

[Eldan]

Oh, that wasn't fastfood coffee for me. That was from our lab coffee machine.

[Cikomyr]

Now, I have a strong urge to post that Amateurs meme in response to these Tim Hortons & Co coffee references :D

I'm from the Balkans and coffee here is somewhat of a religion, where it is made from freshly ground beans with a somewhat strict preparation process in a special pot. Now, that is STRONG coffee.
I have tried the McD coffee, Starbucks coffee and several other fast food brand coffee's over the years and they all seem a bit watered down compared to the real thing.

If the one from Tim Horton's gives you the shakes, the real stuff would probably put you in hospital then.. XD

Hey, did you even read my post before commenting?

I did not got palpitations on mere "Tim Horton's Coffee"

[Willie the Duck]

Okay, forget dragging D&D into the discussion despite three quarters of the rest of the site is dedicated to that purpose, now this is officially the most nerd-on-the-internet thing that could be happening. What's next, a ten page argument over who eats the spicier chili peppers?

[Rodin]

Okay, forget dragging D&D into the discussion despite three quarters of the rest of the site is dedicated to that purpose, now this is officially the most nerd-on-the-internet thing that could be happening. What's next, a ten page argument over who eats the spicier chili peppers?

Look, all I'm saying is that there's no medical proof that my Ghost Pepper Midnight Hobo Dark Roast is fatal to healthy adult humans.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go down the old quarry.

[Wraith]

"I'm a teen and I'm mature!"

Ah, the eternal battle-cry of the immature child. This may, or may not, be first-hand experience.

[Evil DM Mark3]

"I'm a teen and I'm mature!"

Ah, the eternal battle-cry of the immature child.

She does have self-awareness however, she knows she is not mature enough to avoid giggling at but implants. AND she has the maturity to admit as much.

[Wraith]

Admitting that you are unable to refrain from giggling at butts is not *much* maturity, to be fair. Still sounds like a case of "protesting too much".

[Evil DM Mark3]

Admitting that you are unable to refrain from giggling at butts is not *much* maturity, to be fair. Still sounds like a case of "protesting too much".

To understand oneself and ones limitations, is maturity. To admit that one is immature is, ironically, a mature act. hehehe, butts.