Results 1 to 30 of 234
-
2020-07-25, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Is it true that some good characters aren't nice people? If so, how do they even maintain their goodness?
It's time to get my Magikarp on!
-
2020-07-25, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Moral busybodies. Doing for the sake of others what they don't even want done.
Trolls will be blocked. Petrification works far better than fire and acid.
-
2020-07-25, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- Perth, West Australia
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Google the Kingpriest of Istar.
-
2020-07-25, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Warning: TV Tropes (Good Is Not Nice)
TLDR: Good characters that do what needs to be done, they do good acts (killing evil monsters, rooting out injustice, and even feeding the poor and saving burning orphanages), but aren't necessarily social, friendly, accommodating people.
-
2020-07-25, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-07-25, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Right behind you!
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
-
2020-07-25, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Think of it this way. Niceness is a good quality. But it is not the only good quality: Valuing justice. Honesty. Fairness. Giving aid/helping others. Facing down evil. Those are also good qualities.
It is theoretically possible that a person has all those other good qualities. But isn’t nice. I would still consider that person good. Just probably not someone I would want to grab a beer with.
-
2020-07-25, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Location
- Tennessee
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
It is perfectly possible to have a strong moral compass and an absolutely rotten personality.
-
2020-07-25, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
-
2020-07-25, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
'Nice' has absolutely nothing to do with 'good'. If it did, Canada would be Heaven on Earth.
It's not 'nice' to confront a loved one about the drug habit that's destroying them; it's not 'nice' to kick down their door when their building is on fire. It's not 'nice' to kill the unrepentant mass-murderer while he's in mid-murder.
But I think it can be generally agreed that those actions are 'good', or at the very least on the good-ish side of neutral.
-
2020-07-26, 12:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
-
2020-07-26, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
{scrubbed}
Last edited by Peelee; 2020-07-26 at 03:42 PM.
-
2020-07-26, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
- Location
- Montana
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Pretty much. The chaotic evil villain will be "nice" to string you along until the inevitable betrayal. I mean, people do more things for you if your are nice to them. Even if they are just pawns in the grand scheme of things, and will likely need a good sacrificing by the end....
-
2020-07-26, 12:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
-
2020-07-26, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.
-
2020-07-26, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Nope. Good is what you do, not what you are. As long as your moral compass is aligned towards helping as much as you can, you're good.
You can be nice. You just don't have to be. It's just one type of good person that's possible, not "every good character isn't nice".Last edited by Ignimortis; 2020-07-26 at 01:06 AM.
Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
-
2020-07-26, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
-
2020-07-26, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
- Location
- Japan
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
To be fair to your original definition, goodness and niceness often go hand in hand. And actually I would go further and say that you are mostly correct. Being nice is one part of being good. At least under most common ways of thinking. If you had two people who are otherwise identical in their behavior but one of them greets everyone with a smile and the other just ignores them. Well most people would reckon that the first person is a better person. After all he is making other peoples lives better (or at least attempting to) while the second person isn't. However niceness isn't necessarily a good thing in and of itself and it can get very murky very quickly. Going back to those two people if the first guy was smiling and greeting those folks because he wanted to con them later, that's definitely bad. Even if he was just doing it because he wanted to be on their good side and thought he might get treated better if he was smiling, it's not necessarily bad but I would certainly hesitate to call it good. So you can see how quickly the situation can become foggy especially when taking into account things like motives which might not even be clear to the person doing the action.
Also as some other posters mentioned sometimes niceness needs to take a back seat in order to do what's right (such as when a person needs to fight a villain or when a fire fighter needs to break down a door). Furthermore all people in real life and most characters in fiction are complex creatures who do not embody goodness but rather exist on a spectrum. Some characters are mostly good (they put themselves in harms way to help others and protect the innocent) but might be mean and surly with everyone including their friends (like Batman). Others are good characters who are nice to everyone (like superman). I would argue that the former is a more fun and interesting character but the latter is a better (in terms of goodness) character.
Long story short I think you are right overall to associate goodness and niceness but it's a lot more complicated than simply good=nice.
-
2020-07-26, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
- Is it moral to be nice? Why is it moral to be nice? Is it morally obligatory, or morally supererogatory?
- Do not conflate "Nice" with "Kind", sometimes harsh words are kinder then nice lies.
- Can one be moral without being a perfect paragon of morality? Can a event (intent/action/consequence) be moral without involving every moral virtue?
Yes, some good characters are not nice. Some of them are gruff, harsh, and abrasive. Just like how some evil characters are nice, kind, and even charitable. Morality is not a simple 3 state switch and alignment merely tries to describe a rough over-summarized summary of the character's moral character.
PS: Was this a real question?Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-07-26 at 05:14 AM.
-
2020-07-26, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2016
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Granny Weatherwax identifies as GOOD but not NICE.
Nice worries about feelings, good worries about their outcomes. nice is short term, good is long term.
"Don't worry about your homework" is nice but not good, "Get upstairs and do your homework is good but not nice"
"Chocolate is nice for you", "Fruit is good for you"
I guess you could say Nice isn't orthogonal to Good, but contains an orthogonal component. If you were trying to push it on the D&D alignment* you might have Good going foward/backward, lawfulness left and right and niceness on a diagonal with good (ideally with that diagonal forward (good) and up (something else?), if you needed to keep it on the plane you could bodge it by having it partially tie in only lawfulness 'politeness', or chaos 'generosity')
*The only good reason for this is to have a D&D character.Last edited by jayem; 2020-07-26 at 05:46 AM.
-
2020-07-26, 08:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
-
2020-07-26, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Yes, one should always be good and nice, but the two are not automatically correlated.
-
2020-07-26, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
I wouldn't say so. Say you know someone who's struggling. Maybe practical advice would be "good" but, it's not really what they need. Maybe they just need someone to be kind to them. So I think there's some value in being nice.
That's awfully cynical.
If you're talking about "nice" people that always want something from you, sure. I'd agree that they're being manipulative. If someone is being nice without really wanting anything in return... that's probably just who they are.
-
2020-07-26, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Disagree. Nice people are nice because they want something. They want you to be nice back. It creatives a positive feedback loop where you say Good Morning expecting someone to return the greeting. People who don't you look at weirdly and try to avoid while those who do create that feeling you're looking for. Communities form around similar mindsets and ostracize the ones who don't want to comply and conform.
Trolls will be blocked. Petrification works far better than fire and acid.
-
2020-07-26, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
-
2020-07-26, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
-
2020-07-26, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Consider a Good character with a charisma of 6 and no ranks in any social skills.
Why should he be prevented from being Good?
-
2020-07-26, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Evil people do evil and are liked for it. Why they give food out people. A mob boss can extort money from those who borrow to give food to those families that are in his neighborhood. He can have someone killed and still help fix your fence that is nice. He can be a slime and sell faulty products but send people to help you move your things. The above are all nice things.
A good person is honest but struggling to make ends meet and can not afford charity for others. You want to see orphanages starve the children.
-
2020-07-26, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Where do you see malice? The only thing I remarked on was expectations and the dopamine hit achieved when they're met. Polite people are merely engaging in an exchange of positive vibes for their own personal pleasure. It feels good to be polite and to speak to someone else being polite to you, like they're kissing up to you and you're both sharing the experience. This gets to be quite the drug for excessively positive people who avoid all negativity, locking it away instead where it festers and grows. Cool hatred or a smile with no soul are staples in the long term that show niceness should never be associated with goodness or kindness.
Heck this even goes back to the adage of paying someone a compliment. The idea that you're paying and being paid in some positive social gift exchange should highlight the benefits that can be construed as self-serving.Last edited by Kyutaru; 2020-07-26 at 04:34 PM.
Trolls will be blocked. Petrification works far better than fire and acid.
-
2020-07-26, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Washington, USA
- Gender
Re: Good Isn't Nice? Get Out Of Here!
Here's an example, Bartmanhomer.
Goku is Good and Nice.
Vegeta is Good and Mean.
Both have saved the world multiple times, sacrificed themselves to save others, and fought to protect the weak. But Goku is a nice guy while Vegeta is usually pretty rude.