OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread

[Rogar Demonblud]

Asgard
Vanaheim
Muspellheim
Alfheim
Svartalfheim
Niflheim
Nornheim
Jotunheim
Midgard

There's already 9.

[Squire Doodad]

Asgard
Vanaheim
Muspellheim
Alfheim
Svartalfheim
Niflheim
Nornheim
Jotunheim
Midgard

There's already 9.

What about Fakehsgard? It's a very nice place, made entirely out of cardboard "artificially acquired materials".

[Wizard_Lizard]

Dwarves go to the afterlife their god resides in. (apart from those who died without honour) Most of the gods reside in Valhalla. Thor, Odin, etc. So that is why.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Dwarves go to the afterlife their god resides in.

Again: canon says they do not do that.

Most of the gods reside in Valhalla. Thor, Odin, etc.

[citation needed]

Grey Wolf

[zimmerwald1915]

Again: canon says they do not do that.

Some dwarves do - the especially devout, like priests and Clerics, if they don't go to Hel. But that's true of every race (minus the caveat about Hel).

[Fyraltari]

Again: canon says they do not do that.
Grey Wolf

Doesn’t it?

According to Complete Divine, devoted followers of a deity can bend the standard rules when it comes to appropriate afterlife plane.

So - a plurality of orcs are CE - but because their main deity resides in the LN(LE) plane Acheron, those who are devoted to the deity, go to Acheron, regardless of the fact that by alignment, they don't really belong there.

Similar principles may apply to Durkon and Minrah - by being devoted to Thor who resides in Valhalla, they get in, even though they're LG and Valhalla is (assuming it's The Giant's version of Ysgard) CN(CG).

It wouldn’t make sense for gods to have followers of other alignments than their own if that meant they would end up in another plane of existence altogether and deprive them of their soul power.

[Rogar Demonblud]

They're still collecting Belief, Dedications and Worship. They may not get all the souls after death, but they also get some other deity's share that ends up on their plane instead. They likely consider it close enough for jazz.

[Ruck]

It's also possible he changed his mind. Off-the-cuff quotes on the forum and other extra-canonical things can be tricky to cite, since most authors don't feel bound by them going forwards the way they are by stuff they actually put in official canon.

Okay, but what would he have changed his mind about and why?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Some dwarves do - the especially devout, like priests and Clerics, if they don't go to Hel. But that's true of every race (minus the caveat about Hel).

Yep, that's been my position for some time - that what's important here is that they are clerics, and not that they are dwarves.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

They're still collecting Belief, Dedications and Worship. They may not get all the souls after death, but they also get some other deity's share that ends up on their plane instead. They likely consider it close enough for jazz.

If that were true Hel wouldn’t be complaining about only getting dwarf souls. The bet wouldn’t even make sense as she could just take a share of the souls of other deities who end up on whatever plane she lives in.

But really the question is: do we have any reason to ignore Complete Divine here? Doesn’t the whole scenario just make more sense with it? Each religious soul going to its deity of choice’s domain regardless of alignment.

[Dion]

Maybe they get to Valhalla with a ring of teleportation.

http://wondermark.com/c1476/

[Rogar Demonblud]

If that were true Hel wouldn’t be complaining about only getting dwarf souls. The bet wouldn’t even make sense as she could just take a share of the souls of other deities who end up on whatever plane she lives in.

But really the question is: do we have any reason to ignore Complete Divine here? Doesn’t the whole scenario just make more sense with it? Each religious soul going to its deity of choice’s domain regardless of alignment.

Hel gets no souls except those dwarves who die without honor. That is the terms of the wager. At this point, her deal is such an outlier we might as well ignore it.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Again: canon says they do not do that.
DnD says they do.

[citation needed]

Grey Wolf

{scrubbed}

[georgie_leech]

{Scrubbed}

[brian 333]

When comparing apples and oranges one does not conclude that apples contradict oranges.

The most one could conclude from OotS canon, if one wishes to ignore DandD rulebooks, is that dwarves and humans get different deals after death.

[georgie_leech]

When comparing apples and oranges one does not conclude that apples contradict oranges.

The most one could conclude from OotS canon, if one wishes to ignore DandD rulebooks, is that dwarves and humans get different deals after death.

No, but when one is comparing apples with oranges, one should note that such comparisons are unlikely to be helpful when one of the objects you're comparing are much smaller and bluer than either apples or oranges

[Dion]

The most one could conclude from OotS canon, if one wishes to ignore DandD rulebooks, is that dwarves and humans get different deals after death.

Well, multiple high-level dwarven cleric characters have elaborated on how they believe the dwarven afterlife works, so I think we can get a little more than that from the canon.

However, both Durkon and Hilgya are probably unreliable. Hilgya seems to have a lot of practice in self delusion. Durkon undoubtedly spent a bit of time nodding off in the boring classes.

My own opinion is that there’s no answer. It’s probably a bug in the world creation. Maybe file a bug report?

[Rogar Demonblud]

{Scrubbed}

[Jannoire]

{Scrubbed}

[The MunchKING]

"rape"? I thought they just brought up serving wenches that were into that kind of thing. (massive orgies, not rape)

[Quebbster]

"rape"? I thought they just brought up serving wenches that were into that kind of thing. (massive orgies, not rape)

It does sound similar to the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands.
On the other hand, for most of history consent has at best been considered a bonus.

[zimmerwald1915]

It does sound similar to the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands.
On the other hand, for most of history consent has at best been considered a bonus.

Norse women could divorce at will and punishments against sexual violence were enforced on their word alone.

Do try not to paint history with too broad a brush.

[Dion]

Norse women could divorce at will and punishments against sexual violence were enforced on their word alone.

Do try not to paint history with too broad a brush.

And I’m sure Nanna was well and truly dead before they tossed her onto Baldur’s funereal pyre :-).

[Rogar Demonblud]

{Scrubbed}

[KorvinStarmast]

And I’m sure Nanna was well and truly dead before they tossed her onto Baldur’s funereal pier :-).

Funeral Pyre.

[Dion]

Funeral Pyre.

Oops. Thanks!

[Fyraltari]

They’re vikings, funeral pier is acceptable.

[KorvinStarmast]

They’re vikings, funeral pier is acceptable.

You don't set fire to the pier, you set the boat adrift, and aflame, with a dog at the viking's feet ... it burns while floating away.

Not to mention that long ships were of sufficiently shallow draft that they didn't need a pier: they were easily beached.
This feature made them very effective boats for coastal raiding, since they could bring the raiders ashore more or less anywhere. (Besides coastal cliffs ...)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

You don't set fire to the pier, you set the boat adrift, and aflame, with a dog at the viking's feet ... it burns while floating away.

Sure, but while someone is piling up treasure and setting the fire and pushing it off (in whatever order that was done), a bunch of people could be standing in a nearby water-jutting structure to watch. Which would make such structure, for the duration, a funeral pier.
You may be taking Fyraltari's post a bit too seriously
Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

Someone tried to duplicate that. The boat burned at the pier every time, several times also setting the pier on fire as well. Even leaving the boat adrift meant it tended to end up on shore (or again at the pier). Likely the funeral boat was towed out as it burned.

Also, there isn't a dog in the boat. There is a young woman to be the dead guy's slave through eternity.