Creating a mega dungeon.

[the_david]

Today I had an idea for an adventure in which the heroes enter a mine to deal with a kobold threat. It's simple, and a good fit for the start of a campaign. The kobolds are somewhat based on folklore as they have driven the miners from the mine, but they did so with Tucker's kobolds tactics instead of poisoning the mine with cobalt.

Now the simplest motivation for the kobolds could be greed. The adventure would make some sense, but it wouldn't make a great story. The story needs a twist. I have some ideas on what comes next. Some options are:
1: The kobolds live under the mine and have done so for centuries. The miners are newcomers and... Yeah, this is basically just Pocahontas, Fern Gully and Avatar.
2: The kobolds know that the mine is right above an ancient tomb. If the miners disturb the dead they'll face an undead zombie plague.
3: Same thing as 2, except with a Balrog instead of zombies.

I'd like to hear more suggestions for a second level of this dungeon, but I don't want to stop there. There's no reason to stop at level 2, so what would you find on the third level, and how does it connect to the second level? And what's beyond that.

I think I'm going with this for now:
1: Kobolds have invaded the mine.
2: Some miners have accidentally tunneled into a cave with some yellow musk creepers. None of the missing miners have returned as the kobolds sealed the exit.

[Lord of Shadows]

Some options are:
1: The kobolds live under the mine and have done so for centuries. The miners are newcomers and... Yeah, this is basically just Pocahontas, Fern Gully and Avatar.
2: The kobolds know that the mine is right above an ancient tomb. If the miners disturb the dead they'll face an undead zombie plague.
3: Same thing as 2, except with a Balrog instead of zombies.

I think I'm going with this for now:

1: Kobolds have invaded the mine.
2: Some miners have accidentally tunneled into a cave with some yellow musk creepers. None of the missing miners have returned as the kobolds sealed the exit.

All good ideas so far. It probably won't be evident to the party why the Kobolds are really there right away.

Some motivational ideas include:

• There is some Maguffin that exists somewhere down below that the Kobolds either a) want to obtain, or b) want to protect.
• This site is holy ground to the Kobolds for some reason, and they must defend it from the heretics.
• The Kobolds are at the bottom (er, top, geographically speaking) of a menagerie of creatures that are/were being assembled by some BBEG for some purpose. Kind of along the lines of the Balrog idea.

Since they have already exhibited the tactics of Tucker's Kobolds, there must be (or have been) some overlord/authority instructing them in what to do. Such a thing could certainly be deeper down in the dungeon.
.

[Bacon Elemental]

All good ideas so far. It probably won't be evident to the party why the Kobolds are really there right away.

Some motivational ideas include:

• There is some Maguffin that exists somewhere down below that the Kobolds either a) want to obtain, or b) want to protect.
• This site is holy ground to the Kobolds for some reason, and they must defend it from the heretics.
• The Kobolds are at the bottom (er, top, geographically speaking) of a menagerie of creatures that are/were being assembled by some BBEG for some purpose. Kind of along the lines of the Balrog idea.

Since they have already exhibited the tactics of Tucker's Kobolds, there must be (or have been) some overlord/authority instructing them in what to do. Such a thing could certainly be deeper down in the dungeon.
.

I thought it was the other way around, and that the "Tucker Kobold" style of defense is the favoured kobold strategy which is overriden by the "just swarm them, I don't care about you" style of orders from an exterior overlord, such as a dragon.

[LordEntrails]

What's a megadungeon? (to you). Because to me, you are simply describing a dungeon. To me, a mega dungeon is an entire setting. It is something so large that it can encompass an entire campaign. It is something that a character can spend a life time in (exploring) and never get to all of it.

Now, onto your dungeon. I like your ideas. I also thought about something like the kobolds are there for a religious reason. Perhaps their is a legend that this is the kobolds home? Or legends of a great warrior or...

Also to think of, other power groups in dungeon? More than just the kobolds, the miners and the evil? What about goblins who have their own interpretation of the legend? Perhaps that if the kobolds return it will cause their downfall?

And deeper levels, what is the ecology? i.e. undead don't need a reason to be there, but anything that lives and eats needs some way to support themselves, perhaps they have been cut off? Or they have passages into the deeper Underdark?

[Segev]

The kobolds were hereditary servants of a powerful dragon who led them on an expedition to uncover a relic he craved for his hoard. A few years back, they found the ancient guardians of that relic, and their dragonlord was slain in the ensuing fight. The kobolds have settled just "up" from where their lord died, building barricades to hold back whatever wrath may follow them up and mining out the same veins that the dwarves, decades ago, becan mining from the other side. They've been propitiating Something with the mined ores as part of a sacrificial ritual that keeps the threat below at bay, and also empowers their clerics to continue to create sufficient food and water to sustain the colony.

Unfortunately, whatever it was they provoked, it is necromantic, and the kobolds' dead that they can't get to fast enough to prevent this arise as undead monsters. STronger types the lower they go. So when the heroes beat back the invading kobolds, they find the halls of the kobolds' own Tuckered-out lair infested only with undead. This second "layer" of the dungeon gets nastier as they get deeper, until an undead dragon is the boss of the level.

Below that are the first of the guardians, now awakened, and they must battle past that to keep the corruption of the artifact below from driving the guardian into being a surface-attacking horror.

[JeenLeen]

The Angry GM did a section (or is doing a series?) on making a megadungeon. I read through parts of it, and it seems like good advice.
https://theangrygm.com/series/megadungeon-monday/

[Lord of Shadows]

I thought it was the other way around, and that the "Tucker Kobold" style of defense is the favoured kobold strategy which is overriden by the "just swarm them, I don't care about you" style of orders from an exterior overlord, such as a dragon.

Well, yeah, Tucker's Kobolds can occur without any outside influence. In terms of a Mega-dungeon it just helps tie things together if the Kobolds are connected to something deeper down.

The tactics can come from the Kobold's natural cunning and ingenuity, too. Just the fact that the Kobolds are using tactics should be enough to make a smart player take notice and wonder what else is going on.
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[RNightstalker]

What if the kobolds can, or believe they can, control whatever lies beneath their home. After the miners show resolve from the kobold attacks, the kobolds make peace and then use the miners. The kobolds bring some samples of raw ore of whatever the miners are looking for, and the kobolds guide them to the jackpot vein...the undead/balrog horde beneath their homes.

[Zakhara]

If you're looking for escalating threats to continually produce greater challenges in the dungeon, I'd recommend the "bigger fish." There are Kobolds on the first level because they were ousted by something nasty below. And whatever's below the Kobolds got ousted because of something nastier below that, and...

The escalation and antagonism also opens up room for factions and allegiances within the levels, a useful thing to have in a megadungeon.

[Tvtyrant]

I think the bigger fish one works well alongside the Kobolds having had a decent relationship with the miners in the past. Kobolds don't use precious metals (in this group) so they allowed the miners to use an old warren in exchange for steel. The miners have been mining long enough that leaving steel bars is now a superstition not a contract to them, and the kobolds are now just mine gremlins they never see but sometimes hear.

The mine gets bought on the surface and the new lord wants lower overheads, so he stops sending the bars in. The old miners quit because it will anger the "mine gremlins." The lord hires scabs who are then attacked, so he hires the party to clear the mine.

The kobolds needed that steel for their continuous wars with the Mind Flayers, who can't use Kobolds as hosts and being fragile avoid fighting directly. They send raiding parties of the Quaggoths they do use as hosts up to fight with the Kobolds, as they worry that the various tribes will overpopulate and then invade their territories. Defeating the Kobolds opens the surface to Quaggoths and Mind Flayer attacks, etc.

[the_david]

What's a megadungeon? (to you). Because to me, you are simply describing a dungeon. To me, a mega dungeon is an entire setting. It is something so large that it can encompass an entire campaign. It is something that a character can spend a life time in (exploring) and never get to all of it.

I suppose in the way that a Dungeon Master used to be the master of his dungeon. Gary Gygax had Castle Greyhawk, Robert J. Kuntz had Maure Castle and Ed Greenwood had Undermountain.

But in this case it's more of a dungeon of the week thing, with a link between each level. The kobolds invaded the mines to prevent the miners from unleashing a plague of undead creatures, but the undead are only there to guard the sealed chamber that leads to the minotaur's labyrinth, and that minotaur is there to...
It wouldn't be the most serious campaign, and as I'm currently describing it, it would be too repetitive.

[Lord of Shadows]

I think the bigger fish one works well alongside the Kobolds having had a decent relationship with the miners in the past. Kobolds don't use precious metals (in this group) so they allowed the miners to use an old warren in exchange for steel. The miners have been mining long enough that leaving steel bars is now a superstition not a contract to them, and the kobolds are now just mine gremlins they never see but sometimes hear.

Perhaps it has been done for so long that the miners think they are making offerings to "mine spirits." No one has seen one in so long that they have become almost a myth. You could also make it Cold Iron (Pathfinder info) instead of just simply steel. Cold iron is most commonly associated with fighting Fey, but players may forget it's also effective against Demons and some others.

The mine gets bought ... and the new lord wants lower overheads, so he stops sending the bars in. The old miners quit because it will anger the "mine gremlins." The lord hires scabs who are then attacked, so he hires the party to clear the mine.

Seems like sufficient motivation. Again, "mine spirits," and there could even be testimonies of horrified survivors who spoke of "walls of fire that moved," of "enemies that could not be seen," and "fellow miners who vanished without a trace" (pit traps).

The kobolds needed that steel for their continuous wars with the Mind Flayers, who can't use Kobolds as hosts and being fragile avoid fighting directly. They send raiding parties of the Quaggoths they do use as hosts up to fight with the Kobolds, as they worry that the various tribes will overpopulate and then invade their territories. Defeating the Kobolds opens the surface to Quaggoths and Mind Flayer attacks, etc.

Hmmm.. not too sure on Mind Flayers here, maybe further down. But you have the right idea.
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[jayem]

If you're looking for escalating threats to continually produce greater challenges in the dungeon, I'd recommend the "bigger fish." There are Kobolds on the first level because they were ousted by something nasty below. And whatever's below the Kobolds got ousted because of something nastier below that, and...

The escalation and antagonism also opens up room for factions and allegiances within the levels, a useful thing to have in a megadungeon.

Possibly reverse it for the first few levels? Because of the bad lord, the miners are forced to mine deeper. The miners are pushing the kobolds to their 'forbidden layers'...something something meet's the outed by something nasty below.

a) Tyrant [on your side]
b) Kobold relief force [only encounter the edge of]
c) Miners
d) Kobolds
e) Zombie Kobolds
fgi, jkl, mno ) 3 Big fish beginning, mid and ends.

[jjordan]

If you're looking for escalating threats to continually produce greater challenges in the dungeon, I'd recommend the "bigger fish." There are Kobolds on the first level because they were ousted by something nasty below. And whatever's below the Kobolds got ousted because of something nastier below that, and...

The escalation and antagonism also opens up room for factions and allegiances within the levels, a useful thing to have in a megadungeon.

Possibly reverse it for the first few levels? Because of the bad lord, the miners are forced to mine deeper. The miners are pushing the kobolds to their 'forbidden layers'...something something meet's the outed by something nasty below.

a) Tyrant [on your side]
b) Kobold relief force [only encounter the edge of]
c) Miners
d) Kobolds
e) Zombie Kobolds
fgi, jkl, mno ) 3 Big fish beginning, mid and ends.

Both fgi, jkl, mno ideas. I like them.

[noob]

the escalation is that it starts with humans disguised into kobolds and it ends with epic level kobold wizards that forced the humans to disguise in order to hide the fact most kobolds becomes epic level wizards or sorcerers or pun puns.