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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Korias's Avatar

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Your DM is good. This is a great situation, and the entire encounter gives a sort of desperate theme that is very cool. Now, how to win.

    Four extra paladins to aid your PC Paladin might help.
    Binders are good. Their vestiges are nice.
    Warlocks are also good. They provide unlimited Eldritch Blasts.
    Tried homebrew? There are a bunch of classes that can help, and I'll have a few that have some nice abilities at low levels up soon, probably by tomorrow. Afew that come to mind are Vechts, which provide a useful Harrowing Strike at level 2. Enough of these on the Devastating strike section, this provides alot of damage at kamikaze. Useful if you need to take out the Slaymaster thingy. Another good one is Benders, who have some useful elemental attacks, which can clean up undead. Dragoons Can help, initiating a devastating jumping attack, and also provide a useful little bonus aura on the front lines for those within 30ft. A Lightsmith (The Link Escapes me at this time) can make weapons out of basically nothing, and can also add some nifty bonus damage. This Clerical Domain Might also help, as Grease suddenly becomes a domain spell. Which means that those Grease strategies above us are now suddenly avaliable. Black Mages. get Scribe Scroll at 1st level, and cast spells as a wizard with some changes. Plus, the Oops Factor can provide some useful crowd control.
    These classes can provide some help that are player standpoint initiated. Either way, good luck.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Okay, first, Kythons all have fire resistance 20, so no burning, at least against them.

    Now, since you don't know how many there are, you can just assume you'll have to fight indefinitely. This means that slot based casting is out, unless you've got enough barricades and such that you can prolong the battle long enough to be able to rest, but I'm going to assume that you get hit hard and fast and it keeps going until you die. I'd say pull back to an area with only 3 or 4 choke-points. Set all your ranged guys and the arcane PC up top for maximum range of targeting. If you've got enough of the "non-combatant" archers, form them into groups to launch volleys (see Heroes of Battle, I think), it'll be more effective than single shots.

    Once they get past your caltrops, pits, and other defenses (while being pelted with arrows all the way), they hit your melee defenders. Since you need infinite resources, these will be martial adepts. Crusaders, specifically, since they have a healing strike. They will be backed up at each point by a couple dragon shaman, say one with the DR aura up, and one with vigor. The warlocks will know the summon swarm invocation, and will keep it centered right in front of the melee units. Assuming that it acts on the warlocks turn, they can cease concentration every round right before re-casting so that it doesn't move towards your own guys. The swarm guarantees some damage each round as long as they enemies don't get past your front line, and the nausea gives at least a small chance of stripping attack actions. Bats will inflict bleeding wounds for more damage per round after that.

    Hopefully your wizard and archivist have some long range sonic area damage spells, cause those would be really useful.


    Of course, this plan would have been good if they didn't all have poison. You could try making them binders instead, or giving them all the shape soulmeld feat for strongheart vests (to regenerate ability damage or reduce each instance by 1), but then they lose the healing strike and have to rely on just the aura of vigor. If you can get a few rounds between waves for the aura to work and Naeborous (the ability damage regenerating vestige) to fix them up, then you might have a shot. Until the Slaymaster shows up, then you all die.

    Huh, just noticed that a broodling has AC 18. That means you'll really want warlocks swarming and eldritch blasting. As for the demon/fey fluff: screw it. If they really want to save their village, they can suck it up and make demonic pacts. Or you can do away with it, since just like sorcerers, I see no reason to shoehorn them into wacky heritage/pact making.

    Quck edit: actually, I see the best plan as being: train everyone as warlocks with eldrich spear or summon swarm, go to the roof of the tallest stone building, burn the stairs, and live up there with create food/water while sniping everything below. If the building is tall enough they won't be able to get an angle with the ranged Kython weapons, and I don't think they're strong enough to bring a stone building down. Until they leave the combat rules and just undermine the foundation that is. Plus, if you can get it set up for full cover against their ranged attacks, you control the battle speed, and can retreat to recover spells. And if anything you kill animates, that adds a little more damage/distraction down below.

    Unless something has a phase organ, then it flies up and kills you.

    The most important part of this fight is how many is "lots", and weather or not the Slaymaster is willing to sacrifice it's entire swarm trying to kill you. If you kill enough of it's brood, it should logically move on to some softer meat.

    And, always remember, the enemy's gate is down. If all else fails you could try a suicide attack against the Slaymaster, and hope that if you can manage to kill it the others will disperse. If your wizard and archivist go nova on it and survive the rounds it takes to cast their stuff they could probably take it down.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2007-10-07 at 11:14 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    A contingency desperation plan to kill the slaymaster (and also LURE it out if needed) if it turns out to actually be a strategic master of some sort. This is needed, even if this plan is only half-baked.

    Otherwise try to leave it for later as its madness could be all that is keeping the kythons disorganized. Maybe I'm wrong, it is a gamble.


    Also, although I doubt your villagers will like this as much as demonic pacts, training a Dread Necromancer or multiples from the weaker folks could prove useful for using the undead as battlefield control items or bomb delivery agents.



    It is wierd seeing all these suggesstions for Binders, Warlocks, and other slightly dark themed characters. So, this is where they all come from eh?
    Last edited by Machete; 2007-10-07 at 11:10 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Nowhere Girl's Avatar

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    The villagers are bloody idiots.

    No, I'm serious. They're throwing everything (their lives and the lives of their children and other loved ones) away that really matters over, basically, some turf. Based on what you said, they could evacuate, they're just not smart enough to do it.

    Here's what you do:

    Plan A: Since the villagers won't listen to reason, if it's practical, just drug them and/or knock them out some other way, tie them up, and drag them onto your ship (I assume you used a ship to get to this island?). They won't exactly thank you for it, at least not now, but they'll live, and maybe someday they'll be able to look back and realize how silly they were being. Even if they're never thankful, maybe their poor children, doomed to have been born to foolish parents, will be.

    Plan B: Nod convincingly and say "why yes, sure, we'll help you fight them all," then bug out in the middle of the night or some other time when, conveniently, no one is looking. Maybe snap up anything valuable you can get your hands on on the way out, such as that +! rapier. Where they're going, the villagers won't be needing it anyway.

    I'm sorry, but that's not even evil (well, maybe stealing the rapier would be, under the circumstances). There's such a thing as owning responsibility for your own life and your own moronic decisions, and I have little sympathy for people who die for no other reason than, basically, they were just stupid. We have the Darwin Awards so that we can laugh at those people.

    Anyway, in my opinion, under no circumstances should you actually try to go through with this fight. It would be one thing if the odds were more reasonable or if there were something more substantial at stake than just a piece of land and a handful of people too lacking in survival instincts to abandon it, but they're not, and there isn't.
    Last edited by Nowhere Girl; 2007-10-07 at 11:16 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Nowhere girl brings up some interesting choices that the Paladin won't stand for.

    Here is another I briefly thought:
    --Or kidnap the children and willing teenagers and leave.--



    Plus, also put more ranks into whatever skill you can use to train villagers in the future.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Machete View Post
    Nowhere girl brings up some interesting choices that the Paladin won't stand for.

    Here is another I briefly thought:
    --Or kidnap the children and willing teenagers and leave.--



    Plus, also put more ranks into whatever skill you can use to train villagers in the future.
    You might sell the paladin on simply evacuating the willing and leaving, though. Lawful good is not lawful stupid, and if you point out that the foolish have no right to throw away the lives of the rest with their silly decision and that it's basically a choice between saving some lives and saving no lives, you should be fine.

    Unless of course the willing have already been evacuated, and the paladin is just doing the "death before dishonor" routine alongside the villagers now. In that case, I recommend abandoning the paladin.

    Edit: Although honestly, unless your paladin is bent on being a fool, it should be enough that you gather the village together for a meeting and there explain, openly and honestly, that you've explored every avenue, tried everything you can think of, and hashed out every conceivable scenario to the best of your ability, and it's your honest professional opinion as "rock star," "amazing" adventurers that victory is, at this time and under these circumstances, not possible. You would be happy to, after properly regrouping and gathering better resources, aid the villagers in reclaiming their lands, but for now, they must evacuate ... or they're never going to get the chance to reclaim those lands because they. Are going. To die.

    You're not forcing them -- if they choose, they can ignore reason and common sense and stay. You're not deceiving them or lying in any way -- you did give it your best shot, and you do think there's just no way at this point. You're not even unwilling to make sacrifices on their behalf ... you are willing, but in order for that to work, they must be willing to listen to you. Otherwise, you're basically just tugging on their arms as they dig their heels in, all the while the monster equivalent of a nuclear bomb is descending on your location.

    (Or, worse, joining them to die pointlessly right along with them.)
    Last edited by Nowhere Girl; 2007-10-07 at 11:43 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Don't fight a battle you can't win. You've got a bit less than a week -- if you don't already have a cunning plan, it's way too late to start brainstorming. Nothing is gained or proven by standing your ground and fighting; you will get mowed down if the DM doesn't hedge things pretty intensely.

    That said, if you are absolutely set on sticking to your piddly guns, the Cleric and Archivist have their work cut out for them. Stone Shape will greatly accelerate the terrain modification process, and a couple Glyphs of Warding in front of the most critical bunker should help nicely, if you can find some diamonds to grind down for the latter.
    Merlin the Tuna

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Calm Emotions on the Slaymaster?

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SleepingOrange's Avatar

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    So, it seems to me that Silver has made it fairly clear that the village is unlikely to abandon their home-steads; the PCs probably need to decide between 'run away' and 'stay and fight'. If the party is largely lawful-aligned, they'll probably opt for the latter. Or, even if they're not lawful, it doesn't sit well with most good characters to just abandon a swarm of first-level commoners to be mercilessly slaughtered/brain eated. Additionally, while we're meta-gaming, running away will be a lot less fun. Given the choice of a consequence-free (they're not real, remember?) 'famous last stand' or an ignoble retreat, sign me up for the next available six-foot hole.

    So, having put forth my reasons for staying, I've gotta say that I'm with some of the other post-ers; your best bet is traps and spells. Train most of your commoners in magical (preferably high SPD) classes, teaching them sonic and force spells, and some (especially the ones not interested in/capable of combat) in expert classes, putting lots of ranks into trapmaking skills. Make sure you create units capable of making magic traps and wands; wands are going to be very important once your low-level units run out of spell slots. Divine spellcasters, too, are going to be necessary; they're tougher and more durable than other primary spellasters, and undead controlling is going to be a huge boon; each 2nd level cleric can control four 1-HD undead by the virtue of their own power, and provided with control undead scrolls or wands, they can control an additonal eight HD of undeadlings. Upon reflection, healing won't be too vital; a little level one-or-two confronted by the most embryonic of Kythons is probably flesh-paste within a round or two, and you aren't going to have the power or resources for ressing. I'd be hesitant to waste a resource like the schoolmarm on a melee class like a swashbuckler; she'll make a good one, but nothing's going to be good enough at her level. Honestly, I'm not sure what to do with her, but a cannon-fodder wasted death seems... wasteful. I dunno, maybe I just have a soft spot for high intelligence characters.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    So, sortof a crucial point I don't think anyone has brought up - exactly how fast do things rise as undead once you've killed them? If it's within a round or two, I think you might have a chance.

    Train yourselves a big group of eldritch-spearing warlocks (they'll be much, much more likely to hit than anyone wielding a bow) and try to set up some sort of trap right at the edge of the villagers' eldritch spear range - whatever it is, it needs to kill kythons, and preferably not leave them trapped in a hole.

    The idea is simple - as soon as the kythons get within range, set off your trap, and hit them with a volley of 20some eldritch blasts. Hopefully a number will go down immediately, and the villagers can just keep up their barrage. The kythons will probably keep on coming, but pretty soon there are going to be a bunch of them rising as zombies right in the middle of the charging horde. The kythons have to stop and fight the undead rising among them, and the villagers can keep on blasting the closest kythons, causing yet more undead to rise and block the way of the kythons behind them. Pretty soon the kythons are all embroiled in a huge melee with their own dead, and the villagers can just keep blasting away, safe on the roofs and behind your multiple lines of trenches and whatnot.

    If/when the kythons do get close, it would be handy to have some dragonfire adepts (from dragon magic, basically a warlock with a breath weapon instead of a touch attack) standing by with their unlimited-use area affect breath weapons. Give them the sickening breath invocation and just have them breathe away. If a given kython is hit by two of the sickening breaths, th effects will stack and it'll be nauseated and basically harmless for that round, buying the warlocks more time to blast it to pieces.

    Of course, all this is kinda moot if the undead take hours or even minutes to rise. In that case... well, you're probably screwed, but using sickening breath to hold them off while warlocks and other ranged attackers rain small increments of death on them is still a pretty decent strategy.
    Last edited by CthulhuM; 2007-10-08 at 04:42 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SilverClawShift's Avatar

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Dullyanna View Post
    @SilverClaw:Is this the same DM that pitted you against the tiny kobold lich with trap-filled tower? Not that you should ride on this or anything, but maybe the slaymaster is there scare you
    No way. Our DM likes to see us, win, but he's also not afraid to TPK us when we stumble. That's in a normal campaign, this is a horror campaign. We're 6 players, but we've had 9 characters so far.

    It's too early and I'm about to head out, so I can't reply to a lot of people directly (I will when I get home), but a few relevant points.

    We're not really near water. It's an island in the sense that there's water on all sides, but the 'small continent' means that it's roughly half the size of the USA. That means that water based plans aren't too hot, and evacuating the village (even if they were willing to give it all up) would mean marching for "X" amount of days through zombie infested lands, with "X" amount of work and a lot of question marks when we got to "X" location (which is nowhere good at the moment).
    Leaving pretty much delays the inevitable and kills the children and elderly basically. And it's not just our paladin who would be against looting these people and running off, our group is solid good (for a change).

    On the other hand, Slaymasters have the ability to throw up disruption fields and can gain spell resistance 20 at will (but it hinders their blindsight). So while magic isn't useless, it will falter around them.
    And yeah, we took into consideration that they'll randomly have nasty weapons. And I'm sure we can expect at least one incorporeal kython with a phase organ

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Silkenfist's Avatar

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    I just can't see the plan working without heavy use of Eldritch Blasts/Spears. The problem is: Where do the villagers get these abilities from? I liked the idea of a demonic pact. Try to have your Cleric contact the lesser Planes and offer one of your party (6th level heroes should be a great prize in your world) in return for the Devils granting their power to the villagers.

    I don't know if this works mechanic-wise, but its a stupid plan and hands a plot hook to the DM that he can use no matter how the battle turns out. Which means that he will consider this option favorable



    edit: We still need the Wizard's Spell List. I can't see Level 1 Spells hurting Kythons too much (except for Grease to a small extent, but then again you could get mundane traps for a better effect), so these spells are your only hope of Arcane support. Something like Wall of Gloom could give you a nice edge, if you have access to it.
    Last edited by Silkenfist; 2007-10-08 at 06:15 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Well, as it has been said, you are well and truly screwed. Personally I would focus less on the training of the low level minions, and more on the town itself. Turn the entire town into a giant trap. Have the cleric stone shape a large wall encircling the entire town, leaving a single small door. IF you are so lucky as to have scrolls of wall of stone, use them, if not just have the villagers haul stones to form a massive pile, which the cleric then can meld into a solid wall. Technically I don't think this is allowed by RAW, but you can probably get a DM to allow it, especially considering the odds against you.

    Lure the Kythons into the town with illusions/attacking villagers. Any that didn't haul stone should be the standard warlock/marshall/bard/dragon shaman mix, and a dozen eldritch spears should probably draw the kythons within the walls. Once there have the villagers clumb onto the wall by a ramp (which they collapse) and stone shape the door closed, effectively surrounding the kythons with a stone wall. Once there, just open fire. Make sure there are plenty of spiked pits and that all the streets are covered in caltrops. Also see about undermining some buildings to collapse and crush the kythons. All through this the villagers should be taking potshots at the kythons from the wall. And everytime a kython falls, you have a readily available melee troop. If you have any AoE spells which will hurt the kythons, use them before they spread throughout the village, if not, just dump all spells into summoning. If the kythons flee to the center of town, have the villagers lay down boards from the wall to the roofs, and pursue. If the kythons climb the wall, grease it. If you get lucky you will survive long enough to face only a weakened slaymaster, after he has been forced to kill all his newly made undead troops.

    Remember, you can't win by standard D&D tactics. Chaos and confusion are your best friends here, any spells you can come up with that will increase these are your friends. Best case scenario is you wipe out the kythons, and save the commoners. Worst case is you seriously dent the kythons forces and flee with your party to plan your vengeance.

    Edit: forgot about soften earth and stone. Make sure the village is either clatrops and pits, or impassable mud. This also allows you to conserve your caltrops if these are a problem.
    Last edited by bugsysservant; 2007-10-08 at 08:02 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Might I suggest a few psionic classes?
    Energy Rays for type-chooseable damage (including sonic to ignore damage resistance), Bolt to help archers (2d4 arrows with +1 to attack and damage), Deja Vu, Entangling Ectoplasm, Deceleration, and Psionic Grease to slow them down, Skate to speed up your guys, and Astral Construct for some short-term minions. A Shapers could help you out.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex12 View Post
    Might I suggest a few psionic classes?
    Energy Rays for type-chooseable damage (including sonic to ignore damage resistance), Bolt to help archers (2d4 arrows with +1 to attack and damage), Deja Vu, Entangling Ectoplasm, Deceleration, and Psionic Grease to slow them down, Skate to speed up your guys, and Astral Construct for some short-term minions. A Shapers could help you out.

    Uhm...and where do you get the estimated 2 million power points that you would need to pull this off?

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Silkenfist View Post
    Uhm...and where do you get the estimated 2 million power points that you would need to pull this off?
    Second level psions get 6 power points per day. Those are all first-level powers that only cost 1 PP to use. Where'd you get 2 million from?

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Silkenfist View Post
    I just can't see the plan working without heavy use of Eldritch Blasts/Spears. The problem is: Where do the villagers get these abilities from? I liked the idea of a demonic pact. Try to have your Cleric contact the lesser Planes and offer one of your party (6th level heroes should be a great prize in your world) in return for the Devils granting their power to the villagers.
    Warlocks don't have to get their powers by evil means, I would like to point out.
    You could get power by making a pact with, say, fey or TDPPDC, for example.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Illusions will be your friend here. Illusions of weak, injured, delicious peasants. Perfect Kython bait! They're intelligent, but I'm not aware that they have a terrifically good will save, or any "see through illusion"-ish ability. (Maybe your Archivist can tell you differently - I don't have BoVD either).

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Warlocks are most certainly the way to go, because EVERY kython has awful touch AC. Including the Slaymaster. His touch AC is 12. Warlocks are pretty much your best hope.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Don't waste a single spell on Grease.

    A pound of lard (see dungeonscape) can be used to replac it if you can find out EXACTLY when the kythons are coming.

    Does anyone have a Spyglass perchance? Perhaps some kind of traps way far out in the direction they are coming from, something loud or that will set off a signal of some sort like a fire or a flare.



    Oh, and to all those posts and threads that said Dragonfire Adepts and Warlocks were useless.

    HA!
    Last edited by Machete; 2007-10-08 at 11:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solo View Post
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    I must say, I love your DM. I study military tactics on my free time and have a special heart for the last stand, deasperate attempt at glory moments. I also happen to put a large ammount of thought into very similar (Though, I will admit, this is rather unique) situations. I'll give more if I can find the time, but this is just what I thought up off the top of my head:

    1: No one said you had to controll the undead. Find a few firm buildings, make em rather sturdy and command undead into them, then release them when there safe and locked up inside. At the very least, the Kythons are swarming and you set fire to a few of the exits and have a mass of zombies swarming out into the streets. This causes confusion and a crowded alley which reduces movement. Now imagine if that alley was filled with cattletrops and the smoke provided a 50% miss chance. That increases the zombies survival rate and allows you to shoot at will, hoping to hit something in that mess.

    2: Two story buildings? No, thousands of pounds of debris you can collapse onto Kythons in the streets.

    3: If they can reach you, they are far too close. Keep them at a solid range and make use of those marshals and bards. A lot.

    4: Don't underestimate NPC classes. If there is a level 3 Expert with ranks in craft alchemy, I couldn't think of a better chance to use smoke sticks and the ones that make you nausiated.

    5: Blind sense isn't blind sight. I know its been said, but this is important. They are still subject to the 50% miss chance, they are still vulnerable to sneak attack.

    6: Look for alternate class features. I know there is a level 1 bardic varient in Complete Champion that allows you to heal with your Bardic Music. I can't say the specifics as I don't have the book infront of me right now.

    7: Appreciate a well placed rock. You have them. You have a roof to hide on and cover to take. Throw big ones.

    8: You can move freely through the undead, they can't. By using hide from undead you have a massive advantage when it comes to mobility, use it! Send runners to harray they ensuing mob with long ranged arrows. They attack you? Run through a horde of zombies. Even if it takes them one round to kill them, you gain a good lead. I'd say Barbarians, though I'd prefer something that would be of more use durring the ensuing battle.

    9: Warlock 1, Marshal 1. Auras to buff and a second level of warlock doesnt really help much.

    10: Luck. You never know what the die is going to do. When my party of 7th level PCs were trapped in an arena and were being beaten on by a pair of Ogres, one with levels in tempest (MM3 I think), Cody Adams, the 4th level NPC class Commoner scored a critical hit with his Mundane Longsword and did enough damage to kill it (12). Luck happens, it could happen to you.

    Finally, if push comes to shove and you have your back against the wall and death seems inevitable, never underestimate a well placed bout of sheer glory and awesome to turn the tides of a battle. Being prepared to die for a cause often prevents just that.

    You are never screwed, there is always a way to win.

    I'll hopefully post some more specific stuff later, but alas I need sleep. Sweet sleep.
    Last edited by Danin; 2007-10-08 at 11:30 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Good aligned party suggesting demonic pacts to save a homestead? Say it ain't so.

    With the same token, though, say it ain't so that a Good aligned party would duck out in the middle of the night to leave these poor bastards alone, let alone the Paladin in the group doing the same.

    The general comments on "urban" (it's a village, afterall) warfare are pretty good. I also know little about Kythons, so I won't be too much help in that area.

    I just hope I won't be hearing much more about demonic pacts or fleeing in the night .
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Maybe Celestial Pacts!


    There is a way to win this. I see a lot of good tactics here, especially noting that a second level in Warlock isn't that useful. Eldritch spear snipers are essential. Maybe go Dragonfire Adept1/Warlock 1 with a few so they can switch roles if that works with the nausia strategy.


    Also, get NAMES of these villagers. Names make the dfference between being "the guy whose face that got ripped off and died" and "Bill, the guy with the wicked scar from almost having his face ripped off and now is an alcoholic Warlock with a score to settle."
    Last edited by Machete; 2007-10-08 at 12:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverClawShift View Post
    No way. Our DM likes to see us, win, but he's also not afraid to TPK us when we stumble. That's in a normal campaign, this is a horror campaign. We're 6 players, but we've had 9 characters so far.
    I'm not trying to say is not that your DM will let you slide. But it seems to me that your party was getting owned in the tower with the shrieking decomposed angel heads, and the kobold lich, by all accounts, should've won, except for the fact that the cleric or whatever just so happened to step on the Deus Ex Machina trap. And managed to escape the tower w/a rope trick. It's important to note that he didn't hold your hands though, since he counted you as dead when cast into the realm of nothingness, until you pulled that nifty hole into the bag trick. What I'm trying to say is that he's not going to fudge dice or cast summon:DM fiat or anything, but he won't intentionally put you into a hopeless situation either. So if you come up with a really good plan to off the slaymaster, he won't just ****block it, like some people I know. Then again, I don't know how the other characters died, so my little hunch could be completely wrong... That took up a crap load of space, didn't it?
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Well the first idea that springs to mind is the possibility of misdirection, is there anyway you can get a condescending insulting message to the Kythons that appears to be daring them to attack an arrogant and delicious opponent that exists in the opposite direction?

    That could buy you some time to take out the zombies that are attacking the town and also see which villagers are worth giving extra training to after that battle to help you when you do have to face the Krythons (They would probably get a reasonable amount of xp from the zombies anyway right?).

    The distraction could also be accomplished by sending someone who's fast and willing to die to loop around behind them and deliver the challenge as there dieing words.

    And if that's all impossible then I cant really add much to what has already been said, but if you do have to die try and take as much evil as possible with you, maybe if your lucky the cleric/pally's deity will take a liking to you and give you a kick-ass afterlife, maybe even grant you a favour. (if your very lucky)

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    1 word.

    Fire, great for taking down zombies, possibly not so for the demons.

    how you say? Alchemists fire is 20gp a vial!

    true, and in massive amounts that is very expensive, but whats cheaper than alchemists fire? Acid is only 10gp but lower damage output..

    the awnser.

    Oil.

    when prepared (1 full round action, can be done prior to combat) a pint of oil can be thrown as a splash weapon EXACLY the same as alchemists fire.

    The drawback? it only has 50% chance of lighting correctly and doing damage, otherwise they just get wet.

    The advantage? 1 pint of oil costs 1 SILVER peice.

    thats 200 pints of oil for the price of 1 alchemists fire.

    Sure its unrelyable but in that volume, a volly of oil will deal so much damage for such a small price its crazy!

    thats if you can get some, but then again, 1 single barrel of oil holds about 400 pints so its just a matter of finding some tins if you get a barrel or two.

    Not to mention you can coat the floor with oil prior and just torch it all later.

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    @Danin:Good one. I completely forgot about giant rocks FTW. A RFE(Enemies)D could help tremendously. Or just dump a boulder on the slaymaster's nogggin. That should net you bonus brownie points just for being cinematic.

    Also, I don't think you can aggravate 'em through verbal insults. That'd prolly just result in one of the adult xenomorphs going after you while the others move on.

    Edit:Fire's nice against undead, but it's already been stated that the kytons are the cause of concern. The undead are a bit of a double edged sword (Though both edges are blunt).
    Last edited by Dullyanna; 2007-10-08 at 12:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    How did they find out about this little village anyways? Or are the yjust "randomly" heading toward it?

    Is there a way to lure them away?


    Vigor spell will be your best friend for the commoners. While it probably won't save most from outright death (an undeath) it will help stabalize those who go into negatives. If you can get the Mass version of it or wands or something that would be coolios too.

    Blessed Bandages for the aftermath and battle stabilization.
    Last edited by Machete; 2007-10-08 at 01:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    Perhaps you could make some medieval claymore mines? (do a google search) and rig them in chokepoints?

    Pits could be very useful, if these creatures can climb walls (but not fly) then rig pits with spikes pointing DOWNWARD out of the walls, so they can't climb up.

    Is there any way to make some wire traps?

    It seems to me that your best strengh will be in what traps you can prepare, medieval molotov's etc could decide the battle.

    Also, have you thought of, as a last resort, getting everyone into the celler, and collapsing the building on top of the enemy?

    (I don't play DnD so these are just general suggestions)

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Build An Army of Commoners

    I wouldn't say your totally screwed, the DM dosn't sound like the type to put you in the face of certain death, and hasn't told you how many kythons are coming so he can change their numbers.
    However, this is a horror campaign, so expect almost all of the villagers to die, and proably some of the party members. If you win, it will be by the skin of your teeth.
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