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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleine's Avatar

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    Default Shapechanging Master!

    Didn't think this quite warranted the character build thread, so I'm posting here.

    I'm in the process of making a character who is the pinnacle of physical transformation, and I have it very close to being finished. The one thing I'm stuck on is also the most important part: the base class!

    I'm starting out with the divine minion template so I can gain access into both PrC's I want. I'm taking 2 levels of Warshaper and all 10 of Master of Many Forms, but I can't figure out what base class to use. I was going to go with Ranger, part for flavor and part for utility, but getting only 8 levels of ranger seemed to hinder any usefulness rather than add to it.

    Does anyone know what makes a good base class for this sort of thing?
    Super-amazing avatar by Ceika!
    << It's a mound of rainbowflesh, do NOT forget that.

    Quote Originally Posted by xNadia View Post
    See the rainbowflesh, EAT the rainbowflesh, BELIEVE THE RAINBOWFLESH!

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Gralamin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    *cough* Druid *cough*

    edit: That is of course, assuming Divine Minion stacks With Druid.
    Last edited by Gralamin; 2007-10-07 at 11:29 PM.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    I would think Human Carmine Monk 1/Divine Minion/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper X would be good.

    As I understand it, you would immediately qualify for MoMF with your feats. The only thing I would question is the LA on Divine Minion. If I recall it is +3. If so you are really pushing the barrier there.

    A Druid 5 has you one level behind, but gives you spells too. Though the truth is Druid 20 is better for that same reason.

    The Monk above lets you have Int as the only skill that matters (and Con sort of, depending on errata.) This means you get a free AC boost and good saves and can give yourself tons of skill points. The other thing is that I think you could grab lvl 2 and have evasion no matter what your form. (Not well versed in various shapechanging rules.)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hyfigh's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    The level adjustment on Divine Minion is pretty meek. It's either +1 or +2 based on the diety you follow. Linky

    Now, something that you may want to clarify is whether or not your DM is allowing the Divine Minions wild shape ability to qualify you for MoMF. Some people are under the impression that because MoMF requires wild shape as a class feature and Divine Minion does doesn't grant it as a class feature you can't access the prestige class. I don't follow that school, but some do.

    Aside from that I would go for something with full BAB as your base class. There isn't much benefit you'll get from other classes/class features.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Well if they let Divine Minion get you into MoMF then you are looking at a 1 level dip class for a base class. Choose one of the +1 LAs and then just grap a level of something that benefits from mental stats.

    Choices as I see them:

    Sorcerer for some buffs
    Carmine Monk for Int to AC
    Monk for Wisdom to AC
    Fighter for Feat
    Barbarian for Rage

    By using this template you can have a MoMF level equal to ECL-2. It's pretty safe to assume that you are going to always be wildshaped. Find a class that is going to benefit you while you are wildshaped and don't take more then one level. If your campaign goes on far enough the toughest decision to make will be what to take after X 1/Divine Minion/MoMF 10/Warshaper 5. Since that is only ECL 17

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Divine Minion has the also benefits of allowing you to change forms as a free action (not swift but free) and at will.

    Get Frozen Wildshape at lvl 9 or 12 to change into your 12 hydra friend.
    Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Yeah, the guys who DM in my group are generally pretty laid back unless something doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I think most of them would let me use the divine minion so long as I didn't use it to break the game wide open.

    I am notorious for twinking out my characters, but other guys in our group do worse, such as a TWF three-kreen who has two crossbows and can deal roughly 300 damage a round if he so chooses. I at least limit it to totally awesome stuff that I keep around only in case of TPK's.

    Thanks for the input guys, I've been afraid to do any class with spellcasting because of how weak it will end up being with only 8 or so levels, so I'll probably go with one of the melee oriented like monk or fighter. Thanks again.
    Super-amazing avatar by Ceika!
    << It's a mound of rainbowflesh, do NOT forget that.

    Quote Originally Posted by xNadia View Post
    See the rainbowflesh, EAT the rainbowflesh, BELIEVE THE RAINBOWFLESH!

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleine View Post
    Yeah, the guys who DM in my group are generally pretty laid back unless something doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I think most of them would let me use the divine minion so long as I didn't use it to break the game wide open.

    I am notorious for twinking out my characters, but other guys in our group do worse, such as a TWF three-kreen who has two crossbows and can deal roughly 300 damage a round if he so chooses. I at least limit it to totally awesome stuff that I keep around only in case of TPK's.

    Thanks for the input guys, I've been afraid to do any class with spellcasting because of how weak it will end up being with only 8 or so levels, so I'll probably go with one of the melee oriented like monk or fighter. Thanks again.
    It doesn't seem like you get it yet and so I'm going to reemphasize the point.

    You are only taking one level of Monk.

    After that go straight into MoMF

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelik View Post
    It doesn't seem like you get it yet and so I'm going to reemphasize the point.

    You are only taking one level of Monk.

    After that go straight into MoMF
    And it doesn't seem like you realize that I can't have 19 levels of MoMF

    I DO intend a base class to fill in most the empty spots. While I realize that I will most likely go straight into MoMF as soon as possible, my gaming group always tries to go to twenty, and we usually make it to at least 15 before the campaign ends. Unless we die.

    I'm making this character a full, 20 level progression. Not some "Well, I got my PrC levels, I'll just sit back at level 11 while the rest of you have fun" character. Although, I suppose I could throw in some bloodline levels. Hmmmm....
    Super-amazing avatar by Ceika!
    << It's a mound of rainbowflesh, do NOT forget that.

    Quote Originally Posted by xNadia View Post
    See the rainbowflesh, EAT the rainbowflesh, BELIEVE THE RAINBOWFLESH!

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alleine View Post
    And it doesn't seem like you realize that I can't have 19 levels of MoMF

    I DO intend a base class to fill in most the empty spots. While I realize that I will most likely go straight into MoMF as soon as possible, my gaming group always tries to go to twenty, and we usually make it to at least 15 before the campaign ends. Unless we die.

    I'm making this character a full, 20 level progression. Not some "Well, I got my PrC levels, I'll just sit back at level 11 while the rest of you have fun" character. Although, I suppose I could throw in some bloodline levels. Hmmmm....
    I was just trying to make sure you understood. To be perfectly honest getting to level 15 is lucky, and you are looking at ECL 17 before you ever take another level of Monk. And you are probably better off taking a 3 lvls of Natures Warrior if you can. I know you can't take 19 levels of MoMF, but you should only have one level of your base class until level 17. So when you say something like lvl 8 spellcasting it confuses me, since you should only ever have level 4 and that only at 20.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shapechanging Master!

    Argh, my bad. I hate it that my ability to interpret people's words fails utterly when it comes to the internet. I was getting an impression that led me to believe you weren't being entirely nice. My sincerest apologies.

    I tend to make my characters statted out to level 20 because chances are that if they do indeed die, I'll still want to play them later. Also, it is simply a habit of mine to try and complete everything I do, unless it involves schoolwork.
    Super-amazing avatar by Ceika!
    << It's a mound of rainbowflesh, do NOT forget that.

    Quote Originally Posted by xNadia View Post
    See the rainbowflesh, EAT the rainbowflesh, BELIEVE THE RAINBOWFLESH!

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