Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[LaZodiac]

This is a very fun sounding set and if anyone gets any of the Godzilla brand cards please contact me as soon as possible.

[Emmerlaus]

Mutate looks really good on a hexproof frame. Essentially a better version of enchantment creatures, I like it a lot.

I'm sad they banned the Otter, they don't look good enough to be useful outside their companion ability so its essentially a dead card. OTOH I can probably get a set cheap this way.

Yeah, but Hexproof is already too OP. Shroud is more fair inn my opinion.

The otter alone made me consider making a izzet Modern deck (I wont but I did sonsider it) lol

One of my friend is happy about a lot of golgari staples in this edition.

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah, but Hexproof is already too OP. Shroud is more fair inn my opinion.

The otter alone made me consider making a izzet Modern deck (I wont but I did sonsider it) lol

One of my friend is happy about a lot of golgari staples in this edition.

I can't think of a single hexproof creature in a tier 1 competitive deck outside of standard. Unfun maybe, but its OP like counter spells and land destruction (ie its not.)

[Emmerlaus]

I can't think of a single hexproof creature in a tier 1 competitive deck outside of standard. Unfun maybe, but its OP like counter spells and land destruction (ie its not.)

Fair point. You might be right about that. The main difference is the social contract in Commander, depending of your playgroup.

Maybe not OP but Padeem deck can be pretty annoying with all their artifact creature having hexproof. Same for that angel that give hexproof to all humans.

[Ninjaman]

I'm sad they banned the Otter, they don't look good enough to be useful outside their companion ability so its essentially a dead card. OTOH I can probably get a set cheap this way.

It was a free card in every UR deck, that's very destructive for the format.

[Techwarrior]

The issue was the implementation of Companion for Commander. If the otter wasn't a 'bonus' card in addition to anything else I think the card would be fine for Commander. It would definitely be a T1 Commander deck but I don't think it would be problematic.

[Androgeus]

I can't think of a single hexproof creature in a tier 1 competitive deck outside of standard. Unfun maybe, but its OP like counter spells and land destruction (ie its not.)

What tier is bogles?

[Tvtyrant]

What tier is bogles?

Tier 3 in modern, t2 in pauper, tier nothing in vintage and legacy.

Mtg has a ton of board wipes and forced sac abilities, hexproof is decent but not broken. In pauper Bogles has most of the cards from Modern, but sacrifice based removal is so common and fog based control it still isn't that good.

[Leecros]

So on MTG Arena, I have a Sultai Ascendancy deck. It's mostly Hydra's with a bit of amass and ramp to get things going. It's also a bit scatterbrained and it's probably easy to tell that it's been patchworked together across multiple releases.

Spoiler: Deck List

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3 Simic Ascendancy (RNA) 207
2 Enter the God-Eternals (WAR) 196
1 Swamp (DAR) 258
4 Gleaming Overseer (WAR) 198
4 Incubation Druid (RNA) 131
4 Hydroid Krasis (RNA) 183
2 Dreadhorde Invasion (WAR) 86
2 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253
3 Tyrant's Scorn (WAR) 225
2 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
2 Hydra's Growth (THB) 172
4 Voracious Hydra (M20) 200
2 Gargos, Vicious Watcher (M20) 172
2 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds (WAR) 180
3 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
4 Island (M19) 266
2 Swamp (DAR) 260
2 Forest (ANA) 60
2 Temple of Malady (M20) 254
4 Temple of Mystery (M20) 255
2 The Great Henge (ELD) 161
2 Castle Garenbrig (ELD) 240
2 Polukranos, Unchained (THB) 224

It's not really a high-tier deck, but I've managed to squeeze through with it to platinum in the past. It isn't a rare thing for me to pull out a win when I really should have lost. Anyway, I think I've managed to pull a screenshot of the best example possible for this so far. All of my big beefy cratures got Mass Manipulation'd, My opponent just attacked with everything, i'm down to 1hp, Dreadhorde Invasion is coming in but...

Spoiler

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It truly is..."You lost the battle, but won the war"

There have been so many times where my opponents have just ignored that card. I've seen players Mortify creatures over it when i'm on the cusp of winning! In this scenario, my opponent simply didn't have an answer and he was hoping that Dreadhorde would trigger first and I was fortunate enough to have survived his full on attack with 1 life.

[Odessa333]

Hello there, Magic people. I know this a hell of a long shot, but I could use some help. I've never played this game, and my boy received a "deck builder toolkit' set, and has asked me to make up some strong decks from it. It's a green set, which is apparently from something called 'Theros beyond death' if I'm reading this right. I'm doing my research into it, and being fully honest it's not clicking for me, and I'm getting confused and frantic trying to make sense of this. I had to step away, clear my head, and coming at this from another angle.

Among other things, I thought I'd try asking on some forums and see if anyone knew this set and could make suggestions. Like, he said he wants one deck to be about 'fire and poison' and my best guess is he wants red and green, but for all I know there is a 'fire and poison' theme I don't know about.


My apologies if this comes off a mess. I'm stuck at home, fighting a fever, watching 3 kids, my parents.... and I'm losing sleep trying to build decks for a card game I'm not sure how to play. I'm a tad overwhelmed, and could use any aid you could lend. Thank you for your time.

[Fable Wright]

Hello there, Magic people. I know this a hell of a long shot, but I could use some help. I've never played this game, and my boy received a "deck builder toolkit' set, and has asked me to make up some strong decks from it. It's a green set, which is apparently from something called 'Theros beyond death' if I'm reading this right. I'm doing my research into it, and being fully honest it's not clicking for me, and I'm getting confused and frantic trying to make sense of this. I had to step away, clear my head, and coming at this from another angle.

Among other things, I thought I'd try asking on some forums and see if anyone knew this set and could make suggestions. Like, he said he wants one deck to be about 'fire and poison' and my best guess is he wants red and green, but for all I know there is a 'fire and poison' theme I don't know about.


My apologies if this comes off a mess. I'm stuck at home, fighting a fever, watching 3 kids, my parents.... and I'm losing sleep trying to build decks for a card game I'm not sure how to play. I'm a tad overwhelmed, and could use any aid you could lend. Thank you for your time.

Sorry you've got a headache with this.

Let's start with the basics.

Theros: Beyond Death is the latest complete set from Wizards of the Coast for Magic: the Gathering, a Collectible Card Game. There's a couple key things to work with in that sentence. Collectible Card Game is one; this means that any given product will not have all the options available in a set. It means that most sets of cards, collected into decks, will be made of an agglomeration of a lot of different products. Having only the deckbuilder's toolkit means that most advice designed for the game will not fit well for your particular circumstances.

So, ignore 'powerful' for now, and just get you two decks that are fun to play.

Fortunately, the Deckbuilder's Toolkit has a fixed list, so we know what cards you have available to you.

In this game, decks require 60 cards. Usually, this means 24 lands, and 36 non-land cards. Because the Deckbuilder's Toolkit does not offer more than 17 cards in any individual color, it is safe to work under the assumption that you can play a deck with exactly two colors—both to keep the options sane, and because that works out well to make your choices easy for you.

Now, he wants a "fire and poison" deck. My guess is that he means red and black, since black has a skull, which represents poison in many forms of media. This gives you a pool of 17 red, 17 black, 1 multicolored, and 5 colorless cards. A total of 40 to work with, when you usually want about 36. That's fine, then; we just need to pick four cards you would like to exclude. These will probably be colorless cards, since you will want those for the second deck—the one that your son will want to play against. My recommendation for the four cards to exclude are the two traveler's amulets, the Terror of Mount Velus, and the Heraldic Banner. You can tweak these choices later.

Then add the lands. Add in 2 Bloodfell Caves, 11 Mountains, and 11 Swamps. You're done with the first of these.

Then, you need a deck to oppose him. Thematically, it makes sense to repeat the process for White/Green.

White gives you 15 white cards, 17 green, and two multicolored. If you add those together, you get 34. Add in the Heraldic Banner and one of the Traveler's Amulets, and you'll have your 36 cards.

Then add your two Blossoming Sands, 11 Forests, and 11 Plains, and you have two decks to last you until you have a bit more of a handle on how the game goes. Hopefully that can tide you over for a while.

[Silfir]

Consider reducing the deck size to 40 once you've gotten the basics down. It will allow you to actually build a deck - think about which cards are better than others, and try to beat each other by picking the best set of cards from your respective colors.

A 40 card deck should have about 17-18 lands, which leaves 22-23 nonland spells.

[LaZodiac]

The new magic book is out, and this one is Actually Rather Good! Within the spoiler, see my summary and thoughts on Ikoria: Sundered Bonds.

Spoiler

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So first off I just want to note that some of the story slides on the mothership website are just wrong. Vivien doesn't teach Lukka how to use his abilities, Lukka NEVER becomes one with his monster and learns to fight in tandem. Lukka was not exiled.

Anyway, story beats; Lukka's unit gets slaughtered by his cat monster but he bonds with it. His girlfriend, Jirina Kudro sneaks him out of the city. He meets Vivien, they get attacked by Monster Hunters General Kudro sent after them (with Jirina) and have to escape. Viv and Lukka meet other bonders, learn that a planeswalker that Vivien knows is causing the monsters to go super crazy by fiddling with the crystals. We don't get to learn who the planeswalker is but blessedly it is not Oko. Lukka ends up taking the full power of the crystal into himself and saves the bonders from the monster hunters, though one of the bonders dies.

THEN THINGS GO OFF THE RAILS. Lukka is VERY happy with his newfound abilities and wants to create a monster army to protect Drannith! The other bonders are a little... concerned, that he is using them like tools, so he tries to kill them. They and Viv run off, Lukka marches his monsters on Drannith, and thanks to Vivien, the Bonders, and Jirina they are able to fight back in defense against Lukka and his monster forces. Lukka tries to make the monsters stronger, the crystal breaks severing much of his monster controlling powers, and the grief of failing to take his home back from what he beleives to be enemies causes him to ignite and end up in... somewhere. He ends up in a swamp and attacked by either wolves or panthers, it is unclear.

So yeah uh. Lukka is the villain of the book. Huh. All in all it is just a really fun book. The fight writing is pretty good, the side characters are mostly good (do not care for the bonders personally) and the drama, while... a little clunky, works. Vivien, Jirina, and Vivien are our viewpoint characters for the book, and unlike Wildered Quest they are actually rather competent at what they are doing, and actually participate in their character arcs and plots, for the most part. This isn't like the Kenriths, who are idiot teenagers who need to get picked up by the scruff of their necks by Uncle Garruk.

As always if you have any specifics please ask.

[Amechra]

As always if you have any specifics please ask.

Spoiler: Baseless assumptions

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Unless it's an entirely new planeswalker, the person messing with them is probably going to be one of Koth, Nahiri, or Nissa, because those are the three who have "mess with geomancy" as their thing.

Did the book go into any deeper detail on why humans don't mutate? And if I'm seeing things correctly, is this the first plane ever where humans are the only humanoid tribe?

EDIT: Also, did it ever justify where bonders get those awesome hats? You know the ones that tell you exactly what kind of creature they bonded to?

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Baseless assumptions

Show

Unless it's an entirely new planeswalker, the person messing with them is probably going to be one of Koth, Nahiri, or Nissa, because those are the three who have "mess with geomancy" as their thing.

Did the book go into any deeper detail on why humans don't mutate? And if I'm seeing things correctly, is this the first plane ever where humans are the only humanoid tribe?

EDIT: Also, did it ever justify where bonders get those awesome hats? You know the ones that tell you exactly what kind of creature they bonded to?

It is none of the ones you have brought up. The person is very... swarmy and refined, and is male. It is important to keep in mind the crystals are not being altered themselves, the crystals are fine. The Energies inside them are being ****ed with. The way it is explained, the crystals are a giant telepathic phone network the monsters and bonders can use. Whoever is causing the bad is mentally jamming his thoughts into the crystals and broadcasting them out to the mutants.

It is touched upon a little bit. Vivien mentions that unlike most life in the multiverse, the ecology of Ikoria shouldn't actually exist. The amount of predators to prey it has is actually not possible to sustain, so she kinda wants to study it to find out what the **** is going on here. She also mentions the crystals feel similar to the monsters, and both feel semi-unnatural. We also learn that there are like, actual animals on the plane, not just Monsters specifically. Sheep and horses exist. So it seems rather likely that the Monsters are specifiic, genetic mutations made of raw mana. Each clade has a mana associated with it (white for cats, red for dinosaurs, etc) so the monsters are just... incarnations of mana formed by the crystals, I'm guessing.

Bonders spend a long time making hats and dye so they can match their animal friend.

Innistrad had human tribal, but skaab and vampire invalidate the "humanoid" part I suppose.

[Amechra]

Huh. Honestly, I wish that whoever-it-is would shut up and let humans be chill with the mutants, because bonders are adorable.

[LaZodiac]

Huh. Honestly, I wish that whoever-it-is would shut up and let humans be chill with the mutants, because bonders are adorable.

It's not really made clear if he likes Bonders or not. He just wanted to destroy Drannith specifically.

[tgva8889]

Is the name of that planeswalker causing the crystal stuff actually clearly stated, or just alluded to?

[LaZodiac]

It is literally never said in any capacity. Vivien just says it is someone like her.

[mythmonster2]

Spoiler: Book info

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Oko honestly seems like the most likely option, out of the planeswalkers we know, at least. This guy's plan of using the monsters to bring down civilization is remarkably similar to Oko's plan of having the Wilds fight the Realm in Eldraine. I think his speech mannerisms are also somewhat similar. The only other similar planeswalker I could think of is maybe Tibalt, but I've never actually seen the way he talks or acts, so I don't know for sure.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Book info

Show

Oko honestly seems like the most likely option, out of the planeswalkers we know, at least. This guy's plan of using the monsters to bring down civilization is remarkably similar to Oko's plan of having the Wilds fight the Realm in Eldraine. I think his speech mannerisms are also somewhat similar. The only other similar planeswalker I could think of is maybe Tibalt, but I've never actually seen the way he talks or acts, so I don't know for sure.

Spoiler

Show

Tibalt definitely talks like the Crystal Fiddler to a degree. The issue is that said Fiddler also is like... apologetic at times, tries to warn Lukka off from overusing his power, and in general seems way less "lol have pain" than Tibalt and less "I'm a ****ty ****er who sucks" than Oko. So I'm thinking it is a new character.

[Odessa333]

Sorry you've got a headache with this.

Let's start with the basics.

Theros: Beyond Death is the latest complete set from Wizards of the Coast for Magic: the Gathering, a Collectible Card Game. There's a couple key things to work with in that sentence. Collectible Card Game is one; this means that any given product will not have all the options available in a set. It means that most sets of cards, collected into decks, will be made of an agglomeration of a lot of different products. Having only the deckbuilder's toolkit means that most advice designed for the game will not fit well for your particular circumstances.

So, ignore 'powerful' for now, and just get you two decks that are fun to play.

Fortunately, the Deckbuilder's Toolkit has a fixed list, so we know what cards you have available to you.

In this game, decks require 60 cards. Usually, this means 24 lands, and 36 non-land cards. Because the Deckbuilder's Toolkit does not offer more than 17 cards in any individual color, it is safe to work under the assumption that you can play a deck with exactly two colors—both to keep the options sane, and because that works out well to make your choices easy for you.

Now, he wants a "fire and poison" deck. My guess is that he means red and black, since black has a skull, which represents poison in many forms of media. This gives you a pool of 17 red, 17 black, 1 multicolored, and 5 colorless cards. A total of 40 to work with, when you usually want about 36. That's fine, then; we just need to pick four cards you would like to exclude. These will probably be colorless cards, since you will want those for the second deck—the one that your son will want to play against. My recommendation for the four cards to exclude are the two traveler's amulets, the Terror of Mount Velus, and the Heraldic Banner. You can tweak these choices later.

Then add the lands. Add in 2 Bloodfell Caves, 11 Mountains, and 11 Swamps. You're done with the first of these.

Then, you need a deck to oppose him. Thematically, it makes sense to repeat the process for White/Green.

White gives you 15 white cards, 17 green, and two multicolored. If you add those together, you get 34. Add in the Heraldic Banner and one of the Traveler's Amulets, and you'll have your 36 cards.

Then add your two Blossoming Sands, 11 Forests, and 11 Plains, and you have two decks to last you until you have a bit more of a handle on how the game goes. Hopefully that can tide you over for a while.

I cannot thank you enough for this. I may still not know what a tap/untapped means, but this helped me to get decks ready in time. Plus, he liked the Red/black deck, so I'm glad I went with that instead of the red/green I was considering. Thank you so very, very, much.

[enderlord99]

I really wish there was a way to repeatedly (once per turn) flicker Enchantments.

[Fable Wright]

I cannot thank you enough for this. I may still not know what a tap/untapped means, but this helped me to get decks ready in time. Plus, he liked the Red/black deck, so I'm glad I went with that instead of the red/green I was considering. Thank you so very, very, much.

No worries; we're all stressed with world events.

For reference, tap just means "turned sideways", indicating that whatever resource a card on the battlefield provides is spent. You tap a mountain for its mana, and can't use it again until your next turn; this is represented by tradition as turning the card sideways until your next untap step.

[tgva8889]

I really wish there was a way to repeatedly (once per turn) flicker Enchantments.

As someone who built a Commander deck to do exactly this, I don't really think it'd be a good thing if it was super easy. But there are ways, just maybe not in Standard. Venser, the Sojourner does it quite well.

[Personification]

Ikoria is amazing! If you haven't already, immediately get on Arena and use the free draft token to try it out!

[Tvtyrant]

Ikoria is amazing! If you haven't already, immediately get on Arena and use the free draft token to try it out!

I put down $24 on it, it has been great. Third draft right now, the companions are surprisingly great in limited even if they warp your deck to heck.

[Emmerlaus]

Ikoria is amazing! If you haven't already, immediately get on Arena and use the free draft token to try it out!

Maybe... once they make a Mac version of the game without me having to resort to some kind of emulator lol

[PraetorDragoon]

How are the commander2020 decks? Are they decentish out of the box?

[Emmerlaus]

How are the commander2020 decks? Are they decentish out of the box?

Well... The Cycle one is decent enough out of the box I believe. At least cycling is a good ability.

The one I like is the one in Temur colors however. I want Xyris as a Commander. But as for the cards inside of it, I dont think its worth the 50$ CAN... unless the mana base would cost me too much to be similar. I didnt calculate the mana base cost to be honest so once I do that, I'll know more accruratly if its worth for me to simply buy Xyris as single purchase or not.