Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[zlefin]

Things feel so crazy high powered compared to what I'm used to. In part it's because MtG arena makes it so much easier to acquire the rares/mythics, so it's easier to assemble the powerful stuff. But it also feels like the power level is simply higher than it was at a lot of the times I played in. I remember when Kokusho was a strong card; but some of the stuff now just seems so much crazier. So many 1/1s or 2/2s for 1 or 2 that can very easily end up at 6/6 or higher.

It's not necessarily imbalanced, because there's lots of crazy stuff everywhere, but it feels very high powered. It also means that it's so easy to lose a game basically cuz of one crazy op card you didn't have a counter for (in constructed, limited play is better in that such cards are suitably infrequent).

[Ninjaman]

In part it's because MtG arena makes it so much easier to acquire the rares/mythics, so it's easier to assemble the powerful stuff.

Please explain.

[zlefin]

MtG arena has a high enough rate at acquiring cards for free users that it's very feasible to acquire decks full of rares/mythic rares without spending any money at all. It also has wildcards that can be converted into any specific card (can't be undone of course), so you can get the exact cards you need to fill out a deck.

My prior experience was more with MtGO and moreso offline play, where you had to spend real money for everything, so it took a lot to get all the good stuff and fewer people had it. I also wasn't playing in tourneys, just local friendly play so the average deck optimization wasn't as high.

[Tvtyrant]

Things feel so crazy high powered compared to what I'm used to. In part it's because MtG arena makes it so much easier to acquire the rares/mythics, so it's easier to assemble the powerful stuff. But it also feels like the power level is simply higher than it was at a lot of the times I played in. I remember when Kokusho was a strong card; but some of the stuff now just seems so much crazier. So many 1/1s or 2/2s for 1 or 2 that can very easily end up at 6/6 or higher.

It's not necessarily imbalanced, because there's lots of crazy stuff everywhere, but it feels very high powered. It also means that it's so easy to lose a game basically cuz of one crazy op card you didn't have a counter for (in constructed, limited play is better in that such cards are suitably infrequent).

MTG shifts up and down over time, complaints about mtg being too low powered were common from the end of Theros to the start of Kaladesh, but Kaladesh through Ikoria have been very strong, especially Ikoria and War of the Spark. There will likely be a pulling back on power level for a while before it moves up again.

[LansXero]

MtG arena has a high enough rate at acquiring cards for free users that it's very feasible to acquire decks full of rares/mythic rares without spending any money at all. It also has wildcards that can be converted into any specific card (can't be undone of course), so you can get the exact cards you need to fill out a deck.

My prior experience was more with MtGO and moreso offline play, where you had to spend real money for everything, so it took a lot to get all the good stuff and fewer people had it. I also wasn't playing in tourneys, just local friendly play so the average deck optimization wasn't as high.

How odd, for me and my friends its the other way around; in Arena you find Casual McWhatsAMeta with his janky random ass deck and no fear of getting curbstomped, in physical play nobody would waste money on most of those cards or on such a half-assed idea, so you end up with mostly stuff lifted off mtggoldfish, or budgets versions of such.

[Douglas]

How odd, for me and my friends its the other way around; in Arena you find Casual McWhatsAMeta with his janky random ass deck and no fear of getting curbstomped, in physical play nobody would waste money on most of those cards or on such a half-assed idea, so you end up with mostly stuff lifted off mtggoldfish, or budgets versions of such.

Depends on what mode you play in. Play vs Ranked vs events, Bo1 vs "Traditional" Bo3, etc. I play a lot of Traditional Standard event, and most of what I see there is top or close-to-top meta decks.

The big thing that's different about Arena to enable meta decks is that the difficulty/expense of acquiring any given card depends exclusively on its nominal rarity, not on how good it is. If you want a paper copy of some powerful mythic that's a cornerstone of a tier 1 deck, you'll probably have to pay a substantial amount of money for it because everyone else wants them too and there's a limited supply. You will certainly have to pay more than for some weird mythic that no one uses. In Arena, the cost is always the same - one mythic wildcard, unless you get lucky and get it directly from packs or rewards.

[Spore]

How odd, for me and my friends its the other way around; in Arena you find Casual McWhatsAMeta with his janky random ass deck and no fear of getting curbstomped, in physical play nobody would waste money on most of those cards or on such a half-assed idea, so you end up with mostly stuff lifted off mtggoldfish, or budgets versions of such.

I mean in your LGS you are likely known as "the guy who plays this red deck", or the "sliver fan" or the rich guy that brings another deck every other week. Decks won't fluctuate as quickly.

In MTGA, it can happen that a streamer plays a particular meta deck/jank/creative budget deck and within the hour, the servers are flooded with it.

There is literally only one constant. Red deck wins, and red decks get played.

[Ninjaman]

My point is that monetary constraints don't have a big impact on what decks are being played. We're not seeing more broken things on arena than we are on paper.

[zlefin]

My point is that monetary constraints don't have a big impact on what decks are being played. We're not seeing more broken things on arena than we are on paper.

not sure where you made that point; at any rate, that's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a difference even if you aren't; and the answers of others were very helpful in understanding it.

[Eurus]

It's definitely way cheaper to construct a "meta" deck in MTGA than it is in MTGO or paper. Remember when Oko was like 80+ dollars in paper but in Arena everybody had four?

[Emmerlaus]

Im looking for some ruling explination.

If I want to play Combustible Gearhulk but Torpor Orb is on the battlefield (preventing ETB effects), do I still get to mill 3 cards since that effect seem seperated?

[Androgeus]

Im looking for some ruling explination.

If I want to play Combustible Gearhulk but Torpor Orb is on the battlefield (preventing ETB effects), do I still get to mill 3 cards since that effect seem seperated?

No, it’s all one ability.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm currently playing Penny Dreadful a lot. The format is really combo heavy this season, with Burning of Xinye, Death Cloud, Hivemind, Plasma Swans, all of the egg pieces, hypergenesis, and more in the format along with a lot of draw-go effects and some really mean black cards like Davriel and Dark ritual.

[NigelWalmsley]

Please explain.

Smaller packs (but still having a rare/mythic in every pack) means you get rares at a higher rate. Wildcards mean that there's no meaningful price variance between two cards of the same rarity. Arena is also simply cheaper in general than paper or MTGO.

[tgva8889]

It's definitely way cheaper to construct a "meta" deck in MTGA than it is in MTGO or paper. Remember when Oko was like 80+ dollars in paper but in Arena everybody had four?

It helps that one of the meta decks contains no mythics and under 10 rares with the optimal build. Thanks, Boros Cycling!

[enderlord99]

Hey, Zodi... does "Xantcha" count as Karn's deadname? Just curious.

[LaZodiac]

Hey, Zodi... does "Xantcha" count as Karn's deadname? Just curious.

Absolutely not. Xantcha is her own person just like Karn was. It's... Xantcha is Karn's mom basically, is how I'd phrase it.

[enderlord99]

Absolutely not. Xantcha is her own person just like Karn was. It's... Xantcha is Karn's mom basically, is how I'd phrase it.

Oh. That makes sense, I guess. Reminds me of a certain cartoon...

[Spore]

It helps that one of the meta decks contains no mythics and under 10 rares with the optimal build. Thanks, Boros Cycling!

While I LOVE the gameplay and the deck in and of itself, it is a horrible fluff nightmare that I cannot stand as a roleplayer. Including spells just to cycle them? Yes, yes, I get that storywise, the creatures with cycle triggers are rummaging through old crap to find SOMETHING worthwhile to do against the giant monster, but not being ABLE to cast the spell side of 40% of your spells is hair raising for me.

Then again a Charming Prince/Thassa flickering a Gyruda should be equally as annoying to my RPG sensibilities.

[zlefin]

For MtG arena players: are you guys getting the Ikoria pass? I only recently realized and looked up that it's a significantly shorter season, so I'm not sure its worth getting.

I play enough to never let a daily go unused; but I mostly only play if all 3 are available, so my actual game count is fairly low.

I'm also just curious what modes people play: I find I preferentially draft and play my draft decks; and I use constructed decks only when my gold supplies are getting low.

[Spore]

Havent been getting the previous one either. The cosmetics are too lazy and almost exclusuvely for cards that are never played plus old boosters.

Plus the pets are ugly as sin.

[tgva8889]

I haven't decided yet. I'm around level 56 or so right now just doing the amount of play I usually do, if I get to max level I'll probably get it since the free draft coupon plus all the gems and gold I think probably make it worthwhile? But if I don't get up to the max level I might just hold onto my gems.

[mythmonster2]

Well, this is a surprising option to fix Companion, most people thought it'd be start a card down in your hand. Getting rid of Fires and Agent in Standard is much appreciated. Don't think it'll be enough to get Standard back up to snuff, though.

[Amechra]

Well, this is a surprising option to fix Companion, most people thought it'd be start a card down in your hand. Getting rid of Fires and Agent in Standard is much appreciated. Don't think it'll be enough to get Standard back up to snuff, though.

While I'm not really sure I like that particular fix, something did need to be done about Companions.

I'm a bit surprised that Fires didn't get banned earlier, though.

[Tvtyrant]

The Companions fix seems bad. Companion as a mechanic wasn't any worse then planeswalkers, it just had some stand outs (just like planeswalkers.) Lurrus should have eaten a ban, Zirda in the older formats, that seems plenty. Yorion was ok, Gyrudra was good as an all in combo in legacy, otherwise they were nothing to write home about.

[LansXero]

The Companions fix seems bad. Companion as a mechanic wasn't any worse then planeswalkers, it just had some stand outs (just like planeswalkers.) Lurrus should have eaten a ban, Zirda in the older formats, that seems plenty. Yorion was ok, Gyrudra was good as an all in combo in legacy, otherwise they were nothing to write home about.

They probably have even more problematic companions sketched down the line; power creep is real after all. So instead of banning things as they release (which already gave them a ton of backlash) they'd rather nip the problem in the bud.

[Tvtyrant]

They probably have even more problematic companions sketched down the line; power creep is real after all. So instead of banning things as they release (which already gave them a ton of backlash) they'd rather nip the problem in the bud.

Yeah, if they are determined to do it badly why not just rewrite the mechanic? There are plenty that could have worked that are weaker or on par with the current ones but that wouldn't sell as much product I guess. Off the top of my head "Can only be a companion if your deck include 5 basic lands of different types" and then it is a lotus cobra or Priest of Gix but adds all 5 colors when it etbs.

[Amechra]

Honestly, part of the problem with Companions is that, other than maybe Kyruga, the restrictions aren't actually that restrictive.

[Eurus]

Well, that definitely nixes whatsisname the preypiercer, and probably lurrus in standard. Yorion probably doesn't even care about the 3 mana too much, but the Agent of Treachery ban indirectly nerfs him. Creatureless decks running Jegantha as a secondary win condition certainly won't care, it still gives you an extra card of guaranteed gas.

Reddit people seem to think Nissa will rule the day again, I'm not quite so sure yet but we will see. Winota is notably still intact, I'm pretty sure Agent of Treachery was more of a cute trick for her than her main win condition

[Emmerlaus]

Companion rules changed! Now it cost 3 generic mana to put it in your hand at sorcery speed.

I do not mind that at all to be honest. Sounds fair. Like you casted a fetch card to put it in your hand.

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How much Commander decks are too much I wonder... I have 7 Commander decks now and I hope I can resist buy anymore.