Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[Amechra]

@Gaius, @LaZodiac: I'm happy that the settings satisfy someone, then. I'm definitely more on the "political intrigue and historical nonsense" side of the setting spectrum, so they don't really grab me.

(Oh, and to explain my comment - canonically, Elminster has a portal to Earth that he uses to go and have tea with Ed Greenwood. Ergo, if FR is in the MTG multiverse, they have a portal into our world just kinda lying about somewhere.)

---

If we're talking about game stuff, I would like to take a moment to say that I really like the gameplay for the new Rogue Tribal stuff, and that I'm happy that Oona's Blackguard just got a reprint.

It feels really good to have all your bonuses turn on after discarding/milling that 8th card.

[LaZodiac]

@Gaius, @LaZodiac: I'm happy that the settings satisfy someone, then. I'm definitely more on the "political intrigue and historical nonsense" side of the setting spectrum, so they don't really grab me.

(Oh, and to explain my comment - canonically, Elminster has a portal to Earth that he uses to go and have tea with Ed Greenwood. Ergo, if FR is in the MTG multiverse, they have a portal into our world just kinda lying about somewhere.)

---

If we're talking about game stuff, I would like to take a moment to say that I really like the gameplay for the new Rogue Tribal stuff, and that I'm happy that Oona's Blackguard just got a reprint.

It feels really good to have all your bonuses turn on after discarding/milling that 8th card.

To each their own!

Clearly Earthrealm is just one of the myriad super small demi-planes within Faerun. I know the Faerun adjacent "Adventure Zone" presented the human world as a intraplaner realm of thought and invention, maybe you could do a less silly version of that?

Alternatively maybe that's not canon anymore because that's super silly.

[Mystic Muse]

@Gaius, @LaZodiac: I'm happy that the settings satisfy someone, then. I'm definitely more on the "political intrigue and historical nonsense" side of the setting spectrum, so they don't really grab me.

(Oh, and to explain my comment - canonically, Elminster has a portal to Earth that he uses to go and have tea with Ed Greenwood. Ergo, if FR is in the MTG multiverse, they have a portal into our world just kinda lying about somewhere.)

---

If we're talking about game stuff, I would like to take a moment to say that I really like the gameplay for the new Rogue Tribal stuff, and that I'm happy that Oona's Blackguard just got a reprint.

It feels really good to have all your bonuses turn on after discarding/milling that 8th card.

I'm glad somebody's enjoying Rogue tribal because I'm sure not.

I'll probably like it more in non-Standard formats but in standard I've hit the point of auto-conceding against it.

I'm playing a janky Abzan deck I threw together though, not a real deck.

[Amechra]

To each their own!

Clearly Earthrealm is just one of the myriad super small demi-planes within Faerun. I know the Faerun adjacent "Adventure Zone" presented the human world as a intraplaner realm of thought and invention, maybe you could do a less silly version of that?

Alternatively maybe that's not canon anymore because that's super silly.

I'm not sure if it's canon anymore, honestly - it was a thing that Ed Greenwood did as part of a column, where he'd interview Elminster about the goings-on in Faerun.

I'm glad somebody's enjoying Rogue tribal because I'm sure not.

I'll probably like it more in non-Standard formats but in standard I've hit the point of auto-conceding against it.

I'm playing a janky Abzan deck I threw together though, not a real deck.

To be fair, I built mine as a non-standard deck. Because Standard is kinda terrible, and I've moved away from spending money on my cardboard crack. Cockatrice fills that particular void in my life, thank-you-very-much.

[unseenmage]

Am going to be taking part in a GURPS game where our characters are MtG Planeswalkers.

Because reasons I need to know if the Eldrazi Spawn mechanic where they get sacrificed for mana is described in the books or comics or lore anywhere?

[LaZodiac]

Am going to be taking part in a GURPS game where our characters are MtG Planeswalkers.

Because reasons I need to know if the Eldrazi Spawn mechanic where they get sacrificed for mana is described in the books or comics or lore anywhere?

All we're told is that the spawn collect mana that are sent back up to the main titan. It's not described in any books or comics, but there's a few cards that show stuff like this but it's usually killing the spawn for other effects. I imagine others might be able to help better with this, but on the whole it's not really shown.

[Personification]

Am going to be taking part in a GURPS game where our characters are MtG Planeswalkers.

Because reasons I need to know if the Eldrazi Spawn mechanic where they get sacrificed for mana is described in the books or comics or lore anywhere?

As LaZodiac said, the sacrificing spawn for mana thing doesn't really translate to the lore. It is more there as a game mechanic to encourage playing large things. The closest you could get flavorfully is that the smaller spawn are sometimes used as fuel for larger Eldrazi/sometimes morph (no, not that kind) into larger Eldrazi, which is shown as sacrificing the spawn to generate mana for the larger one (kind of like emerge). I would say that from a worldbuilding perspective this ability isn't really indicative of anything, and I wouldn't try to display it in a game set during BFZ era.

[Spore]

As LaZodiac said, the sacrificing spawn for mana thing doesn't really translate to the lore. It is more there as a game mechanic to encourage playing large things. The closest you could get flavorfully is that the smaller spawn are sometimes used as fuel for larger Eldrazi/sometimes morph (no, not that kind) into larger Eldrazi, which is shown as sacrificing the spawn to generate mana for the larger one (kind of like emerge). I would say that from a worldbuilding perspective this ability isn't really indicative of anything, and I wouldn't try to display it in a game set during BFZ era.

As far as I understand, Eldrazi are all consuming space titans and the scions are their vestiges. So if they are used as fuel, they are converted to mana in game terms, but not to Mana as in-universe terms.

[Personification]

As far as I understand, Eldrazi are all consuming space titans and the scions are their vestiges. So if they are used as fuel, they are converted to mana in game terms, but not to Mana as in-universe terms.

Exactly.10

[mythmonster2]

Wow, the Walking Dead Secret Lair is going to be coming with mechanically unique black-bordered cards (playable in Legacy, Vintage, and Commander). I was fine with the Godzilla cards, but I really don't like this. Even if the cards aren't playable, that just doesn't feel right to me for Magic. Combined with the D&D crossover set and the terribleness of Standard lately (Uro got banned, BTW, but only him. Omnath continues to Omnath), I'm starting to fear Magic is jumping the shark. Hasbro is definitely putting the pressure on to squeeze every penny out of it.

[Amechra]

That's... certainly a decision that they've made, yes.

[Dienekes]

Knowing Mark Rosewater's love of zombies I'm not exactly surprised. But I did not know Walking Dead was still a popular enough thing to make this profitable. I don't think I've heard anything about the franchise in years.

[Tvtyrant]

Knowing Mark Rosewater's love of zombies I'm not exactly surprised. But I did not know Walking Dead was still a popular enough thing to make this profitable. I don't think I've heard anything about the franchise in years.

That could be why. MTG gets a bigger cut for propping up the franchise instead of a small cut for benefiting from it.

[Amechra]

Knowing Mark Rosewater's love of zombies I'm not exactly surprised. But I did not know Walking Dead was still a popular enough thing to make this profitable. I don't think I've heard anything about the franchise in years.

I'm more confused by their decision to make them unique cards, honestly.

[LaZodiac]

Wow, the Walking Dead Secret Lair is going to be coming with mechanically unique black-bordered cards (playable in Legacy, Vintage, and Commander). I was fine with the Godzilla cards, but I really don't like this. Even if the cards aren't playable, that just doesn't feel right to me for Magic. Combined with the D&D crossover set and the terribleness of Standard lately (Uro got banned, BTW, but only him. Omnath continues to Omnath), I'm starting to fear Magic is jumping the shark. Hasbro is definitely putting the pressure on to squeeze every penny out of it.

Well the good news is that they're still unplayable in standard, but not because they're silver bordered

I'm more confused by their decision to make them unique cards, honestly.

The official word is that they can reprint the exact same card with a different name, so it's basically like the Godzilla Showcases, just... being done differently for no reason? It's very silly.

[Amechra]

It's very silly.

Exactly.

It's somehow even sillier than what they did to poor Zilortha.

[Spore]

I'm starting to fear Magic is jumping the shark. Hasbro is definitely putting the pressure on to squeeze every penny out of it.

One of the Magic subreddits I am subbed to isn't exactly "on fire" as we speak, but I have never seen people discuss Magic alternatives in a magic themed sub before in that big amount. People are pissed, and I am starting to doubt myself too. I spent 100 dollars on MTGA, with the result that I can play two tier 1 decks (Mill Rogue and updated RDW). I am missing several key cards for other fun decks, like Luminarch Aspirants for Orzhov Clerics, or Hagra's Maulings for basically any black deck that is not Mill Rogues.

Which honestly I would expect a hundred bucks of virtual cards mind you to last me for more than an expansion of Standard. It is VIRTUAL cards for heaven's sake! If MTGA shuts down I own NOTHING. At least in paper I would have something, even if they spontaneously decided to flood the market with cards I bought on the secondary market, I would still have the cards, and the sleeves. Magic is a cool game, and MTGA despite its many MANY programming flaws is a decent-ish client, but can they maybe dial back the greed just a bit?

[LansXero]

Dial back what? Magic has had one of its strongest sale years, everything that comes out sells out and stores are clamoring for more stock of everything, not less. Burnout happens around rotation every single year, yet the flux of people always outstrips the leavers. Why would they cut back on money that addicts everywhere are super happy to give them?

Like you, for example. Everything you have could've been gotten for free, But cant wait, wont wait, here WotC have money. Why would they go: 'no, dont give us the money you had no obligation or need to give us but want to give us anyways'.

[Amechra]

I mean, franchises tend to do really well right before they burn up their good will.

Also, just to mention it... Cockatrice lets you play Magic over the internet with your friends without any of the garbage WotC likes to push, or running into the whole "I spent $100 on virtual cards" issue. Heck, want to play with custom cards/spoiled cards? It can do that.

I know some people who use it along with CubeCobra to hold cube drafts. And the Magic Set Editor forums have their own Modern format that they use Cockatrice to play.

And, as far as I know, it is entirely within Wizard's fair use guidelines, so it's entirely legal. It falls in the same territory as proxies, pretty much.

[LansXero]

I mean, franchises tend to do really well right before they burn up their good will.

As you can see in this thread, people are already super hyped over MTG/Hogwarts and MTG/Faerun even if they wont stick around to play past the novelty phase. Next year OP should return so more people might be taking a more critical aproach to sets, but there is no reason to believe the game will stall. People bitch and whine over balance, bans, or whatever but then turn right around to pre-order stuff.

Also, just to mention it... Cockatrice lets you play Magic over the internet with your friends

I always liked Magic Workstation better. Both have been around practically forever though, and it hasn't kept Arena from exploding in popularity. Arena is also free to play and fairly trivial to get stuff in; if people wanna rush it to try and pay their way into a ranking thats entirely on them.

It falls in the same territory as proxies, pretty much.

So disallowed anywhere that WotC gets any say at all?

[Amechra]

As you can see in this thread, people are already super hyped over MTG/Hogwarts and MTG/Faerun even if they wont stick around to play past the novelty phase. Next year OP should return so more people might be taking a more critical aproach to sets, but there is no reason to believe the game will stall. People bitch and whine over balance, bans, or whatever but then turn right around to pre-order stuff.

Fair. I was mostly just pointing out that "but it sold really well" isn't always correlated with the health of a franchise.

I always liked Magic Workstation better. Both have been around practically forever though, and it hasn't kept Arena from exploding in popularity. Arena is also free to play and fairly trivial to get stuff in; if people wanna rush it to try and pay their way into a ranking thats entirely on them.

I'd imagine that the difference there is advertising - go pretty much anywhere Magic-adjacent on the internet and it's pretty likely that you'll see an ad for Arena. Heck, I've actively had Arena pitched to me by the owner of a FLGS I go to when I crashed a "learn how to play Magic" event. Meanwhile, Cockatrice and Magic Workstation (which I've actually never heard of before - why do you like it better than Cockatrice?) only have word of mouth.

I think it's less about a ranking and more about being able to play decks that you actually think are fun. Plus, if you have limited time and disposable income, and the game lets you convert money into time, it makes perfect sense to pay that money so that you won't waste your time. Seriously, that's the free-to-play model in a nutshell.

So disallowed anywhere that WotC gets any say at all?

Yep! But, at the same time, it's not like you're using Cockatrice for any official events or anything. Plus, tournaments are for Spikes - why should the rest of us have to have our game experience warped by what's best for them?

[Emmerlaus]

I know that despise all of that complaining, there is going to be one or two walnuts willing to buy those Secret Lair product so meh... Nothing to really complain about here. Sure it makes Wizard look bad but let other waste their money.

I loved Grimlock for exemple, being a Beast-Wars fan. But I wouldnt pay for a copy to make a commander for it. I know to restrain myself (at least I like to believe it lol). If I was a billionnaire, I would buy a copy and make a EDH deck for the fun of it but its normal for most people to have things in the world that are too overpriced for their budget.

Im more interested in knowing when the Commander Legends spoilers are going to be available for us to see LOL

[LansXero]

Meanwhile, Cockatrice and Magic Workstation (which I've actually never heard of before - why do you like it better than Cockatrice?) only have word of mouth.

They also have more than a decade of lead time; the major gripe they have is the lack of automation which is what Arena provides. As for MWS, probably just force of habit, having used it for close to 10 years before trying cockatrice.

Plus, if you have limited time and disposable income, and the game lets you convert money into time, it makes perfect sense to pay that money so that you won't waste your time. Seriously, that's the free-to-play model in a nutshell.

The missing bit is the 'BUT I PAID YOU 100$!!!!' entitlement / bitching. No idea where it comes from, as it was a clear cut transaction with well defined parameters, Now, if Arena was as pushy / hostile to free players as many other freemium games are, then perhaps; but thats far from the case.

Plus, tournaments are for Spikes - why should the rest of us have to have our game experience warped by what's best for them?

I do wish Arena had more fun / wacky formats available even if its just as a rotative weekly thing

[Techwarrior]

So on a completely left field topic. I run Feather, the Redeemed in EDH and haven't really been paying attention to cards since about the return to return to Ravnica block. Does anyone know of any sweet new Boros cards that would fit into a Feather deck running a Sunforger package and a small equipment package?

[mythmonster2]

So on a completely left field topic. I run Feather, the Redeemed in EDH and haven't really been paying attention to cards since about the return to return to Ravnica block. Does anyone know of any sweet new Boros cards that would fit into a Feather deck running a Sunforger package and a small equipment package?

Akiri, Fearless Voyager is definitely worth looking into: card draw and protection, both based on equipment.

[LaZodiac]

I know that despise all of that complaining, there is going to be one or two walnuts willing to buy those Secret Lair product so meh... Nothing to really complain about here. Sure it makes Wizard look bad but let other waste their money.

I loved Grimlock for exemple, being a Beast-Wars fan. But I wouldnt pay for a copy to make a commander for it. I know to restrain myself (at least I like to believe it lol). If I was a billionnaire, I would buy a copy and make a EDH deck for the fun of it but its normal for most people to have things in the world that are too overpriced for their budget.

Im more interested in knowing when the Commander Legends spoilers are going to be available for us to see LOL

October 22nd according to Maro.

[Techwarrior]

I think Akiri is definitely worth adding. I didn't realize I was still running Zada, Hedron Grinder and Mirrorwing Dragon so I'll probably drop one of those for Akiri. Zada is one of those cards that looked amazing when building the deck, but just never really performed as well I would've liked it to.

The deck plays a Voltron style, but the real goal of the deck is to get Sunforger into play with a creature to equip it to and then play "protect the Sunforger." There's enough other equipment in the deck to make the tutor package worth a bit more, although I could probably do with shaving one or two equipment.

At a glance, I remember wanting to cut the Skullclamp, Zada, and Mirrorwing Dragon for better creatures. Akiri thus fits right in.

Edit: I also remember wanting to cut Phyrexian Altar.

Spoiler: Decklist for those interested

Show

Feather, the Redeemed

15 Artifact
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Boros Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Thought Vessel
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Star Compass
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Dowsing Dagger
1 Sunforger
1 Argentum Armor
1 Skullclamp
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

14 Creature
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Zada, Hedron Grinder
1 Tethmos High Priest
1 Mirrorwing Dragon
1 Vanguard of Brimaz
1 Akroan Crusader
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tenth District Legionnaire
1 Sun Titan

3 Enchantment
1 Smothering Tithe
1 Goblinslide
1 Luminarch Ascension

21 Instant
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Chaos Warp
1 Generous Gift
1 Return to Dust
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Tithe
1 Boros Charm
1 Teferi's Protection
1 Blessed Breath
1 Ethereal Haze
1 Expedite
1 Shelter
1 Gods Willing
1 Magnetic Theft
1 Psychotic Fury
1 Crimson Wisps
1 Guided Strike
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Strength of Arms

37 Land
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Ash Barrens
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Boros Garrison
1 Buried Ruin
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Mountain
8 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Kher Keep
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Reliquary Tower

2 Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger

7 Sorcery
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Open the Armory
1 Cleansing Meditation
1 Fell the Mighty
1 Chandra's Ignition
1 Austere Command
1 Wrath of God

[Dienekes]

So after a few weeks of getting back in to magic I have found a lot of things have changed. A much higher focus on multicolor lands. White being so much more aggressive than I remember. And Planeswalkers being a thing. Overall I’ve found these changes pretty fun.

But unfortunately some things have remained the same. I still find myself mentally checking out every time I face a blue control deck. Win or lose. It’s just boring.

[Techwarrior]

What exactly about blue control decks bores you? There's other colors of control decks in various formats.

[Dienekes]

What exactly about blue control decks bores you? There's other colors of control decks in various formats.

No doubt. It might just be because they’re what I face. But to sum it up:


Them multiple drawing then looking over the new cards as they decide what to discard every turn. The ability they have to set up a game stage as you watch cards just funnel about every round with little input from you.

And there is just little more disheartening seeing cards from your deck going straight to your graveyard.

But thankfully I can just leave a game when it gets to that point. Im just playing for fun. If it’s boring I can ditch.