Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[Dienekes]

It's complicated, though thank you for giving me a frame of reference.

So, three entire major story arcs and shifts in storytelling have come and gone in the time since you've been here. The most modern stories are now firmly in the okay category after a brief period of "these two books set the fandom on fire" which were proceeded by divisive but ultimately very appreciated and very good web fiction that started in Tarkir block.

Gideon is a real good and strong boy he's also dead sorry. Garruk is not an idiot actually and is currently watching over these two dumbass teens like a big uncle, now that he is no longer cursed with evil.

Aw man. The guy I found out about and thought sounded vaguely cool for 2 days is dead. Alas.

So two books that set the fandom on fire. Is that good fire, or pure rage at the incompetence of the writers?

Other than the Tarkir stuff, is there anything you’d recommend?

Garruk was my favorite planeswalker before the whole chain veil thing. Mechanics wise, he was just the best and most fun of the Lorwyn 5. Story-wise, he's got a sympathetic and grounded past, and the whole 'hunt down and bond with beasts' thing made him seem like a generally cool dude. Man, eight years ago, I was devastated when he couldn't follow up on the Cursemute, 'cause who was going to be the Green Planeswalker without him? Nissa? The elf supremacist who willingly set the Eldrazi free, because "oh they're not going to eat my face", whose signature mechanics all revolved around Elf tribal? Man, that was just unthinkable.

Plus, even when his curse got bad, he was the one guy who could get Jace Beleran to shove it.

...It took eleven years to resolve that plot point. Man, I went from high school through college and got a job and a mortgage waiting for this quest to end, and it comes when Magic is at its lowest point since Combo Winter and I haven't bought cards since Aether Revolt.

I am more than willing to be proven wrong. Admittedly all I’ve sort of scrounged together is Garruk is some sort of Planeswalker hunter, and he ate a poor defenseless cookie.

Also I have seen a semi-frequent recitation that Nyssa is “the worst.” Which makes sense to me. She is an elf.

[LaZodiac]

Aw man. The guy I found out about and thought sounded vaguely cool for 2 days is dead. Alas.

So two books that set the fandom on fire. Is that good fire, or pure rage at the incompetence of the writers?

Other than the Tarkir stuff, is there anything you’d recommend?



I am more than willing to be proven wrong. Admittedly all I’ve sort of scrounged together is Garruk is some sort of Planeswalker hunter, and he ate a poor defenseless cookie.

Also I have seen a semi-frequent recitation that Nyssa is “the worst.” Which makes sense to me. She is an elf.

The two novels "Ravnica: War of the Spark" and "Ravnica: Forsaken" are... incredibly "we will burn down the fandom in hellfire and death" in terms of responses. I'm not going to blame the writer of these two books, but instead blame the corporate hierarchy that caused these books to be rushed out and muddled and just not very well written a lot of the time. They did have some good things, they did do a lot of bad, WOTC is aware and is trying their best to correct this as best they can.

As for recommendations; it depends on how you want to engage in the story. Just going Tarkir forward is good I feel, though keep in mind that one of the set of web stories after Tarkir is Origins, which is backstories for the main five walkers of the cast (Jace, Gideon, Nissa, Chandra, and Liliana). From there, basically just read the webfiction in order of release up to War of the Spark, where things get complicated.

There is a prequel book to War and Forsaken that is Very Good and only accessible as webfiction in specific ways (it's weird, I have it if needed) and there is a side novel released after Eldritch Moon that was free and very good and currently not available (it's weird, I have it if needed). After War of theSpark and Forsaken are the standalone novels for Eldraine (which resumes Garruk's story, curing him of his darkness and desire to hunt planeswalkers) and Ikoria.

[Personification]

"Set the fandom on fire" as in "the YouTube channel Tolarian Community College is now making Pokémon videos".

[noob]

"Set the fandom on fire" as in "the YouTube channel Tolarian Community College is now making Pokémon videos".

Makes sense to have cross product promotion since they also do the Pokemon cards?

[Androgeus]

"Set the fandom on fire" as in "the YouTube channel Tolarian Community College is now making Pokémon videos".

That fandom Guy Fawks Night is a different one than the War of the Spark’s fandom arson.

[Personification]

Makes sense to have cross product promotion since they also do the Pokemon cards?

Yeah, honestly I am partly joking there. The fact that he is branching into other TCGs is not evidence of him being upset with Magic (though he has also been pretty vocal in his criticism about the direction things are moving right now).

That aside, I don't even play Commander (or paper Magic at all) and I already want to make a Rograkh/Ravos Soultender anthems tribal deck.

[noob]

Yeah, honestly I am partly joking there. The fact that he is branching into other TCGs is not evidence of him being upset with Magic (though he has also been pretty vocal in his criticism about the direction things are moving right now).

That aside, I don't even play Commander (or paper Magic at all) and I already want to make a Rograkh/Ravos Soultender anthems tribal deck.

Seems like an interesting base for an equipment deck.(All it lacks among the cool basic abilities is hexproof)
The partnership is a great plus.

[Amechra]

Honestly, I think the sleeper hit is going to be Dargo. He gives you easy access to infinite ETB/dies triggers with a Phyrexian Altar (sac a creature to the Altar for R, sac two other creatures, then repeatedly sac Dargo for R). It also wouldn't be that hard to combo off and play him on T1.

[mythmonster2]

Welp, Wizards just decided to print Black Lotus But For Commander. This seems absurd.

[enderlord99]

Welp, Wizards just decided to print Black Lotus But For Commander. This seems absurd.

It's weaker (because you can't use it to cast any of the 99) but still way too strong. I agree.

It might be a reasonable level of strength if it also had a clause where it couldn't be used to pay for the generic portion of the mana cost, but even then it would be pushed.

[Amechra]

Guys. Guys.

There's a 10/10 for 10 Hydra that Cascades four times. That's... all kinds of insane.

[Ninjaman]

I think Jeweled Lotus is going to be a lot less of a problem than people make it. Doesn't mean I like the design though.

[Emmerlaus]

Guys. Guys.

There's a 10/10 for 10 Hydra that Cascades four times. That's... all kinds of insane.

What's insane is that its now a staple in an Alimar deck.

[Spore]

Jeweled Lotus is strong and not color-locked but it is just up there with other staple cards such as Sol Ring, Arcane Signet or Cyclonic Rift.

I can see it easily becoming a "fan-banned" cards due to its potential to turn a game of "fair magic" into something hideously one-sided and unfun for 75% of the table.

[noob]

Jeweled Lotus is strong and not color-locked but it is just up there with other staple cards such as Sol Ring, Arcane Signet or Cyclonic Rift.

I can see it easily becoming a "fan-banned" cards due to its potential to turn a game of "fair magic" into something hideously one-sided and unfun for 75% of the table.

Like "turn 1 I put my op 4 mana commander on the table before you can get any of the spells that can manage it" ruining of fun?

[Mystic Muse]

Jeweled Lotus is strong and not color-locked but it is just up there with other staple cards such as Sol Ring, Arcane Signet or Cyclonic Rift.

I can see it easily becoming a "fan-banned" cards due to its potential to turn a game of "fair magic" into something hideously one-sided and unfun for 75% of the table.

Like "turn 1 I put my op 4 mana commander on the table before you can get any of the spells that can manage it" ruining of fun?

As a general rule, I don't think the commanders that care about this card are going to be played in groups that would fan ban this card.

Yeah, if I ramp out Urza turn one and I've built my deck correctly, I probably win that game, but if I'm playing Sarkhan against my friend's Temur Sarkhan energy deck, they will rightfully avoid playing with me.

[NigelWalmsley]

Jeweled Lotus is very strong in cEDH metas, but I don't think it's that impressive in normal EDH. Cheating out Urza or Godo and comboing off is impressive, but competitive metas have tools to deal with T1 combo. In a more battlecruiser meta, a one-off ritual really isn't that big of a deal. If your plan is to cast Drakuseth or something, this is really quite similar to Irencrag Feat, a card exactly zero people are concerned about.

[enderlord99]

I just had a really funny Historic match, using my "Wishclaw Talisman + Animating Fae + Trostani Discordant" deck.

Much earlier, I had played a Simic Ascendancy that had since been destroyed. Before destroying it, they copied is with Mirrormade, and now their copy had over 20 counters.

I controlled Inniaz, the Gale Force but only one other creature with flying (making a total of two, which wouldn't be enough to steal anything) and, although I had another flier in my hand, it didn't have haste. I had eight available mana, though, so I used one with my Talisman to search for my Akroma's Memorial, which I then played, before attacking with three arbitrary creatures and trading my Trostani for their copied Simic Ascendancy.

So that was cool.

[enderlord99]

What, like a tabletop equivalent of Penny Dreadful?

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm not going to BadWrongFun the people who like it, but stuff like this new Jeweled Lotus is one of many reasons why I dislike Commander. Sadly that's all the MTG scene in my town even plays, which has turned me off from the game in recent years. When I got into the game during my university days everybody was into two-headed giant with casual modern jank decks. Now it feels like the attitude is that anyone who hasn't sunk $100+ into their deck isn't even worth playing with.

I think there should be a format with 60-card decks where the total market value of the cards (as determined by a mutually-agreeable online marketplace) is limited to $10.00, basic lands exempted. It could lead to some interesting deckbuilding choices and give cards that otherwise don't see play a role. If it was a fairly big format it would even be self balancing as overpowered decks would get slowly nerfed as the cards in them rose in value.

We tried something like that at my store, but the limit was $50.

The gameplay was fine, but the format was hampered by the fact that I could build a deck and then next month due to the ineffible will of the market, my deck stopped being legal and i'd have to make changes.

The concept works best online as in Penny Dreadful. In paper, the volatility of what's legal is not conducive to a good time.

[Mystic Muse]

Especially when you factor in something like Wayfarer's Bauble which used to be a 12 cent card, and is now over $3 at the cheapest.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not going to BadWrongFun the people who like it, but stuff like this new Jeweled Lotus is one of many reasons why I dislike Commander. Sadly that's all the MTG scene in my town even plays, which has turned me off from the game in recent years. When I got into the game during my university days everybody was into two-headed giant with casual modern jank decks. Now it feels like the attitude is that anyone who hasn't sunk $100+ into their deck isn't even worth playing with.

I think there should be a format with 60-card decks where the total market value of the cards (as determined by a mutually-agreeable online marketplace) is limited to $10.00, basic lands exempted. It could lead to some interesting deckbuilding choices and give cards that otherwise don't see play a role. If it was a fairly big format it would even be self balancing as overpowered decks would get slowly nerfed as the cards in them rose in value.

Isn't that just pauper? I don't actually know.

[Mystic Muse]

Isn't that just pauper? I don't actually know.

Pauper is not quite that cheap, and has no inherent price limit.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm not going to BadWrongFun the people who like it, but stuff like this new Jeweled Lotus is one of many reasons why I dislike Commander. Sadly that's all the MTG scene in my town even plays, which has turned me off from the game in recent years. When I got into the game during my university days everybody was into two-headed giant with casual modern jank decks. Now it feels like the attitude is that anyone who hasn't sunk $100+ into their deck isn't even worth playing with.

I think there should be a format with 60-card decks where the total market value of the cards (as determined by a mutually-agreeable online marketplace) is limited to $10.00, basic lands exempted. It could lead to some interesting deckbuilding choices and give cards that otherwise don't see play a role. If it was a fairly big format it would even be self balancing as overpowered decks would get slowly nerfed as the cards in them rose in value.

I've done it before. We set it at $10 a deck (discounting basic lands) and it worked pretty well. You take a snapshot of when you bought it and don't worry about prices except initial buying price.

I also play Penny Dreadful online, it rotates on a fixed time table and the price is set to day of rotation. For paper I would go for one year or so and 10C a card.

[enderlord99]

Isn't that just pauper? I don't actually know.

Nope. Pauper is "only commons"

[Amechra]

I'm not going to BadWrongFun the people who like it, but stuff like this new Jeweled Lotus is one of many reasons why I dislike Commander. Sadly that's all the MTG scene in my town even plays, which has turned me off from the game in recent years. When I got into the game during my university days everybody was into two-headed giant with casual modern jank decks. Now it feels like the attitude is that anyone who hasn't sunk $100+ into their deck isn't even worth playing with.

I think there should be a format with 60-card decks where the total market value of the cards (as determined by a mutually-agreeable online marketplace) is limited to $10.00, basic lands exempted. It could lead to some interesting deckbuilding choices and give cards that otherwise don't see play a role. If it was a fairly big format it would even be self balancing as overpowered decks would get slowly nerfed as the cards in them rose in value.

For a while, I was on a kick where I brewed up a ton of decks that cost less than $10, including the basic lands. One of the big consequences is that decks tend to top out around two colors (or include Green), since having a proper land base would take up your whole budget. I also tended to brew around janky cards like Fevered Visions or Pia's Revolution, but that's just something I do in general. You do get some pretty neat decks if you embrace the jank, though, like my Umori dash+mutate deck or my Temur BIG SPELLS! list (which focused on getting big spells - which are either spells with cycling or split spells - into my graveyard so that I can recur them with Vengeful Rebirth or Living Lore).

If you up the limit to $15, more stuff opens up since you can actually budget to buy that one card your deck needs that costs more than a dollar. Looking at you, Maze's End- you're the only reason that my five-color Gates deck costs over $10 ($11.75, but still).

For anyone interested in this kind of challenge, you want to hit an average card price of $0.16, including your basic lands. Draft chaff and stuff that's just shy of competitive are your friends. And, hey, if your opponents are building with the same card pool, all of the removal will be garbage, so you don't have to worry about your creatures being hyper-aggressive.

---

Have you ever considered building a cube? Not a powered cube (because those can cost as much as a house), just a pile of 360 cards that you like and that you think could be fun to draft. If you limited yourself to, say, $0.20 per card, the whole thing would set you back less than $100 (including the sleeves and the like).

[LansXero]

I think there should be a format with 60-card decks where the total market value of the cards (as determined by a mutually-agreeable online marketplace) is limited to $10.00, basic lands exempted. It could lead to some interesting deckbuilding choices and give cards that otherwise don't see play a role. If it was a fairly big format it would even be self balancing as overpowered decks would get slowly nerfed as the cards in them rose in value.

We ran several seasons of Standard Pauper and more of Standard Silverblack (C/UC only). It was more fun than it had reason to be, we really should give it a shot again once this stupid virus goes away.

Legacy versions suck out all the savings and fun of weird formats.

[enderlord99]

Isn't that thing you called "Standard Silverblack" actually Artisan?

[Eurus]

Isn't that thing you called "Standard Silverblack" actually Artisan?

IIRC, Artisan is what Arena called it and Silverblack is what MTGO called it.

[enderlord99]

IIRC, Artisan is what Arena called it and Silverblack is what MTGO called it.

Presumably, there are different names because Artisan is a rotating format, whereas Silverblack is an eternal one.

I could be wrong, though.

EDIT: I have another really stupid custom card:

Spoiler

Show

Subvert Preparations - 5UB
Sorcery - M (Dimir watermark)
Choose a permanent you don't control with Hexproof, Protection, or Shroud. Gain control of that permanent and everything attached to it.