Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chandras!

[Amechra]

Whenever I say that "there might, occasionally, situations in which some amount of life is more valuable than some other amount of mana" people hear "life is generally at least as value as an equal amount of mana" and then come to the conclusion that I'm an absolute noob who's always wrong. How does the former statement imply the latter, much more specific statement, in so many people's minds?

This is because, in my experience at least, the kind of people who talk about Magic online undervalue having a high life total, on account of either playing aggro or not playing against enough aggro . More seriously, a lot of people make the leap from "in many cases, it's not worth it to spend a card to gain life" and "you can still win the game as long as you have any life" to "gaining life is always a bad use of your time". Which is more sensible than the "if I get a ton of life, I can't lose!" attitude you see with some newer players... but it's still kinda dumb.

If you want an alternate way of getting your point across, ask them if they'd crack a fetch to grab a shock against a Burn deck.

[Tvtyrant]

This is because, in my experience at least, the kind of people who talk about Magic online undervalue having a high life total, on account of either playing aggro or not playing against enough aggro . More seriously, a lot of people make the leap from "in many cases, it's not worth it to spend a card to gain life" and "you can still win the game as long as you have any life" to "gaining life is always a bad use of your time". Which is more sensible than the "if I get a ton of life, I can't lose!" attitude you see with some newer players... but it's still kinda dumb.

If you want an alternate way of getting your point across, ask them if they'd crack a fetch to grab a shock against a Burn deck.

As long as life gain decks are doing something to gain advantage hey work fine. Just gaining life unless infinite is a losing prospect, but there are white decks for penny dreadful that use a lot of "gain 4 draw a card" cards to keep alive into board wipes and prison cards. Also aristocrats is great for since it slowly kills the enemy while gaining you life.

I was trained on "the only life that matters is the last one" which is somewhat true but in practice lifegain is pretty nice.

[enderlord99]

I'm gonna be frank here: the issue I was discussing originally wasn't lifegain.

[Amechra]

I figured, which is why I referenced cracking a fetch vs. a Burn deck. The thing is that I think people kinda bundle lifegain and lifepay into a similar part of their brains. "Lifegain is bad because it doesn't help you win games" → "Paying life is fantastic because you don't need a high life total to win".

Recently, I saw a post on Reddit that mentioned that cards seem to be balanced around the idea that you can trade 3 life for 1 mana and vice-versa. There were plenty of caveats to that, but it seems to check out.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm gonna be frank here: the issue I was discussing originally wasn't lifegain.

Okay, what specific scenario are you referencing?

[enderlord99]

Okay, what specific scenario are you referencing?

I don't remember anymore.

[RayGallade]

I'm probably a horrible person for this, but there a a part of me that enjoys permanently locking my opponent out of the game on Arena with Rule of Law/Archon of Emeria and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets' ultimate. Its amazing the number of times I've been able to pull it off just playing for fun.

Probably wouldn't ever put that into a commander deck, but I've got no problem with it in 1v1.

[Amechra]

I'm probably a horrible person for this, but there a a part of me that enjoys permanently locking my opponent out of the game on Arena with Rule of Law/Archon of Emeria and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets' ultimate. Its amazing the number of times I've been able to pull it off just playing for fun.

Probably wouldn't ever put that into a commander deck, but I've got no problem with it in 1v1.

Eh, it's their fault for not conceding once you've hit that point. Hard locks are basically just win conditions, unless your opponent has an out.

I say this as someone with a casual deck that runs Familiar's Ruse/Peel From Reality + Eternal Witness, because the budget version of Eternal Command is hilarious.

[Personification]

So, when Tibalt was announced, they made a big deal of how he was going to be really cool this time and definitely not just an ineffectual and cruel idiot, but people still made jokes. One that I saw was a sketched cartoon of Tibalt trying to do his whole "god of lies" schtick with Kaya, only for her to immediately recognize him and effectively send him to timeout.

I read today's story article, and that literally happened.

On a different note, I really like Tyvar's characterization, and I also like how everyone on Kaldheim just sees planeswalking as a regular thing, because the realms are basically planes. (I actually am unsure if they ARE distinct planes that are just weirdly close together metaphysically (like Dominaria and basically any plane featured in a set before the mid 2000s) or one plane that is broken up (like Alara before the conflux).)

[LaZodiac]

So, when Tibalt was announced, they made a big deal of how he was going to be really cool this time and definitely not just an ineffectual and cruel idiot, but people still made jokes. One that I saw was a sketched cartoon of Tibalt trying to do his whole "god of lies" schtick with Kaya, only for her to immediately recognize him and effectively send him to timeout.

I read today's story article, and that literally happened.

On a different note, I really like Tyvar's characterization, and I also like how everyone on Kaldheim just sees planeswalking as a regular thing, because the realms are basically planes. (I actually am unsure if they ARE distinct planes that are just weirdly close together metaphysically (like Dominaria and basically any plane featured in a set before the mid 2000s) or one plane that is broken up (like Alara before the conflux).)

To be fair, Tibalt has;

1: The Sword of Realms, so he succeeded at that
2: Convinced Herald and the Elves to war against the humans
3: Convinced the trolls to war against the humans
4: Is about to convince the demons to really go berserk mode on everyone
5: Is likely responsible FOR all the omenpaths opening up and thus causes the Doomskar in general
6: Actually won his fight against Kaya

While it IS true that if it had been 1v1 Kaya would have stomped all over Tibalt (he is not a very fast runner and I find this hilarious), he HAS been rather successful and Not-Incompetant. It is just clear that he is not USED to success, by this metric. Also I don't recall them ever saying we should take Tibalt seriously this time around.

Tyver is peak dumb nice idiot I love him. And yeah, Kaldheim's take on planes is super unique, I like it a lot! As for what the deal is with Kaldheim's cosmology, it is explicitly intended that it is like Alara, in that each realm is separate from each other, but they do all count as the same plane.

[Amechra]

Honestly, it's nice to have a villain who's "just" a powerful bully for once. I'm kinda tired of the way that people seem to demand hyper-competent villains.

Let the heroes win because the villain messed up for once, instead of making it all "might makes right".

[LaZodiac]

Agreed. That's how I write my villains, typically, and how I prefer villains in general.

Honestly after the last couple of villains we've had in Magic, I'm ENTHRALLED by Tibalt as a villain here. He is still winning and still rather successful, but also they are still presenting Tibalt as someone who sucks at this at the same time. It's cool.

[Amechra]

Everyone else: "Tibalt, why are you so bad at this?"
Tibalt: "HAHAHAHA chaos! Whatever happens you lose, nerds!"

[Zhentarim]

What would be a fitting card-cost and abilities for a legendary enchantment creature -- Angel Enchantress, whose name is "Fyria, Maiden of Roses"?

I'm thinking the card should be Bant when it comes to its color identity.

[Personification]

What would be a fitting card-cost and abilities for a legendary enchantment creature -- Angel Enchantress, whose name is "Fyria, Maiden of Roses"?

I'm thinking the card should be Bant when it comes to its color identity.

So, a few notes on flavor and current card typing (all of which you can ignore if you aren't trying to hold to current magic flavor (or even if you are)): At the moment, enchantress isn't a creature type. All creatures with "enchantress" or "enchanter" in the name (except Zur) are Druids. Also, so far they have only done enchantment creatures on Theros, where there are no angels, and Maro has said that if they were to use them otherwise they would be used for illusions.

That said, the name feels to me like something (initially) on the small side that gains life, so maybe WUG for a 1/1 with flying, lifelink, and vigilance. Whenever you cast an enchantment (so it won't count itself) it gets a +1/+1 counter and you draw, and when it ETBs you may search for an aura and put it into your hand.

That may be too pushed.

[Tvtyrant]

What would be a fitting card-cost and abilities for a legendary enchantment creature -- Angel Enchantress, whose name is "Fyria, Maiden of Roses"?

I'm thinking the card should be Bant when it comes to its color identity.

WB
0/2
flying, lifelink, vigilance.
Whenever another nontoken creatures dies put a +1/+1 counter on Fyria.
"Upon each grave she lay a single rose."

[Personification]

WB
0/2
flying, lifelink, vigilance.
Whenever another nontoken creatures dies put a +1/+1 counter on Fyria.
"Upon each grave she lay a single rose."

Patron saint of ornithopters.

[Zhentarim]

WB
0/2
flying, lifelink, vigilance.
Whenever another nontoken creatures dies put a +1/+1 counter on Fyria.
"Upon each grave she lay a single rose."

I love it. I come up with great names for cards and "moods" for cards, but the specifics are always hard for me to decide.

[Zhentarim]

Patron saint of ornithopters.

That would be W/U, not W/B, right?

[enderlord99]

I like Kaya's logic of "if that were really Valki, he'd still be using illusions, but I wouldn't be able to tell where those illusions were. I can recognize the illusions, so that's not Valki." It's probably the second-most-surefire way to know that he wasn't really the God of Lies.

The first was that he literally introduced himself as the God of Lies; the God of Lies would presumably never(ish) do that.

[Personification]

I like Kaya's logic of "if that were really Valki, he'd still be using illusions, but I wouldn't be able to tell where those illusions were. I can recognize the illusions, so that's not Valki." It's probably the second-most-surefire way to know that he wasn't really the God of Lies.

The first was that he literally introduced himself as the God of Lies; the God of Lies would presumably never(ish) do that.

On that note, his rhetorical strategy was "you know you can trust me, I'm the god of lies." Which seems poorly thought out.

[Amechra]

On that note, his rhetorical strategy was "you know you can trust me, I'm the god of lies." Which seems poorly thought out.

I could find the exact quote I was looking for, but this is close enough.

[enderlord99]

I could find the exact quote I was looking for, but this is close enough.

So... a triple-bluff?

[Amechra]

Clearly, Valki is lying about being Tibalt lying about being Valki.

[enderlord99]

Clearly, Valki is lying about being Tibalt lying about being Valki.

That's what he wants you to think.

[Tvtyrant]

Clearly, Valki is lying about being Tibalt lying about being Valki.

The real Valki is busy messing with Sorin by saying he is Tibalt.

I want to see how deep they can go with this, it's probably the best detail since WotS.

[enderlord99]

The real Valki is busy messing with Sorin by saying he is Tibalt.

That would require Sorin be on Kaldheim, which is (currently) unlikely.

[Tvtyrant]

That would require Sorin be on Kaldheim, which is (currently) unlikely.

Or Valki lied to the planes about being a planeswalker :P

[Amechra]

You see, Sorin thought he returned home to Innistrad. Instead, it was a cunning ruse by Valki (who is secretly Nahiri in disguise). Sorin (who is secretly Domri Rade in disguise) is going to get a rude shock when he runs into Tibalt (who is Tibalt in disguise) on his way to do Important Gruul Vampire Things, like making a new Avacyn (who will be played by Gerrard). Meanwhile, Niko Aris is secretly glad that their long-con of being Nicol Bolas is over, and Tyvar is completely oblivious to all of this.

Welcome to the multiverse, son daughter kid dragon you know what? Screw it.

[Dienekes]

You see, Sorin thought he returned home to Innistrad. Instead, it was a cunning ruse by Valki (who is secretly Nahiri in disguise). Sorin (who is secretly Domri Rade in disguise) is going to get a rude shock when he runs into Tibalt (who is Tibalt in disguise) on his way to do Important Gruul Vampire Things, like making a new Avacyn (who will be played by Gerrard). Meanwhile, Niko Aris is secretly glad that their long-con of being Nicol Bolas is over, and Tyvar is completely oblivious to all of this.

Welcome to the multiverse, son daughter kid dragon you know what? Screw it.

Cool, Gerrard's coming back. I miss him and his generic good guy ways with his really lackluster card.