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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Didn't you cast spells for that though?
    Manaless Dredge can avoid casting with Phantasmagorian as a discard outlet, or Vintage Dredge can do it with Bazaar. Sacrificing your Narcomoebas to trigger Bridge from Below usually involves casting a spell, but it doesn't need to actually resolve to trigger Bridge.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlet View Post
    Manaless Dredge can avoid casting with Phantasmagorian as a discard outlet, or Vintage Dredge can do it with Bazaar. Sacrificing your Narcomoebas to trigger Bridge from Below usually involves casting a spell, but it doesn't need to actually resolve to trigger Bridge.
    I missed the successfully part. I was thinking about Dread return and Cabal Therapy, but you're right that they don't actually need to resolve.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Any of y'all play pauper? I never have (I'm almost exclusively EDH, with a little modern now and again), but I signed up to play in a tournament recently. My worry is the tournament is at Gencon - for those who don't know, it's a 40k-attendee board game convention. I realize there can be noobs there, but when I hear that many people, I have to assume those who sign up for tournaments are the really competitive ones.

    I'm wanting to build a pauper standard deck, likely white or white red. When I look up pauper, most of the articles talk about the top decks and they all say the same, such as "if you play Black, you need this card, or only a couple specific color combos (such as mono-blue, green elves, or black-control).

    That kind of exclusivity is why I don't like Modern - I dislike a format that has a very narrow A-Tier, or requires me to buy cards from 20 years ago to be good. I was open to pauper because I figured, having pulled packs regularly since Theros (2013), I could still build a good deck.

    Can someone reassure me and tell me I can build well without needing to buy a specific set of cards/one of 3 or 4 specific combos, or is it really a tight field? Or am I being unreasonable?

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Pauper is Legacy, so expect very narrow highly efficient builds. Its not a brewers format, like, at all, so I dont get why its so pushed as a 'budget' or 'casual' format when as all eternal formats its pretty solved.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnitis View Post
    Any of y'all play pauper? I never have (I'm almost exclusively EDH, with a little modern now and again), but I signed up to play in a tournament recently. My worry is the tournament is at Gencon - for those who don't know, it's a 40k-attendee board game convention. I realize there can be noobs there, but when I hear that many people, I have to assume those who sign up for tournaments are the really competitive ones.

    I'm wanting to build a pauper standard deck, likely white or white red. When I look up pauper, most of the articles talk about the top decks and they all say the same, such as "if you play Black, you need this card, or only a couple specific color combos (such as mono-blue, green elves, or black-control).

    That kind of exclusivity is why I don't like Modern - I dislike a format that has a very narrow A-Tier, or requires me to buy cards from 20 years ago to be good. I was open to pauper because I figured, having pulled packs regularly since Theros (2013), I could still build a good deck.

    Can someone reassure me and tell me I can build well without needing to buy a specific set of cards/one of 3 or 4 specific combos, or is it really a tight field? Or am I being unreasonable?
    Pauper is much worse in that regard then modern. It has very clear tiers and the decks are often comparably strong. There are a few decks that are nearly tier that are playable, such as goblins, but you aren't going to be able to just reuse some old commons and compete.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Is there a reason that, when I'm about to win, Arena will often say that I "lost connection to the server" and then (presumably) record the match as a loss when I try to reconnect... but it never does that when I was going to lose anyway?
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnitis View Post
    -snip-
    Pauper has a very high powerlevel, showing up with what you had lying around isn't going to work. Like every other competitive format really good players found out what stuff was good, and that is what people play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Well, that is rather disappointing, but I appreciate the responses/the clear answer. What I'll most likely do then, is find one of the top tier decks, and see what cards I have that are close in type-of-effect. I didn't expect to win a tournament when I've never played the format, but rather what the average power level/repetitiveness of build might be. Again, thanks.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnitis View Post
    Well, that is rather disappointing, but I appreciate the responses/the clear answer. What I'll most likely do then, is find one of the top tier decks, and see what cards I have that are close in type-of-effect. I didn't expect to win a tournament when I've never played the format, but rather what the average power level/repetitiveness of build might be. Again, thanks.
    The decks that always come back are:

    Delver (in mono U, UR or UB)
    Tron
    Affinity
    Burn
    Mono green stompy
    Mono black control
    Boros Kitty

    In roughly that order. Boros, aka kitty, has been big the last three years or so but having piloted all of them it is by far the most clunky. Burn and Mono U Delver have the highest consistency, Affinity and Tron have the most power. Stompy and MBC are in the middle on clunkyness and power.

    Blue is strong in pauper, to a ludicrous degree. Brainstorm, ponder, preordain, counterspell, until recently gush and git probe, etc. Red has almost all of burns spells but not its creatures from legacy, green, black and white are missing their major components. No board wipes, cheap exile effects, 4/5 2 drops, etc.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Wasnt Infect a thing too? And yeah, blue is busted. Storm would be too, but they gutted it.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Wasnt Infect a thing too? And yeah, blue is busted. Storm would be too, but they gutted it.
    Invigorate got the ban early. Right after post got banned, but before cloud of faeries.

    Ban free pauper is a whole different beast. It is a combo format between PP Storm, Infect, Post and Drake. The game is ending by t4, guaranteed. Edit: Also Mono Black Aggro now that the paper and online cards were merged. 6 power t1 into t2 hymn to tourach or sinkhole is probably enough disruption to hold off combo until you win.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2019-07-25 at 01:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Accidentally read some bad War of the Spark novel opinions and now I'm all grumbly. Taking some slight solace in the fact that the only people here who've read it like it, and the ones who want information asked when I offered.

    Incidentally the Gathering Storm prequel novel chapters are still coming and still very, VERY good.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Accidentally read some bad War of the Spark novel opinions and now I'm all grumbly. Taking some slight solace in the fact that the only people here who've read it like it, and the ones who want information asked when I offered.

    Incidentally the Gathering Storm prequel novel chapters are still coming and still very, VERY good.
    I haven't read the prequel novel yet, but I was ... underwhelmed with the War of the Spark novel. I didn't hate it, just ... I probably won't be rereading it.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Anyone got a brawl scene nearby?

    We're running a brawl league now and I wanna have a deck to jump in from time to time. How does this look?

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2118435#paper

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiousLeader View Post
    I haven't read the prequel novel yet, but I was ... underwhelmed with the War of the Spark novel. I didn't hate it, just ... I probably won't be rereading it.
    I do extremely recommend the prequel novel. I totally get being underwhelmed by War of the Spark, and I can assure you that Gathering Storm is extremely a better novel. I like both, but I'd read Gathering Storm over it any day... and it's only got like 7 of it's 20 chapters out right now.

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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I'm working on a side deck in modern, madcap goblins. Basically 8 whack with madcap experiment thrown on, skirk prospector means the lands don't have to be super high and the combo is 1 card so it is very contained.

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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    You'll have to help me along over here a little. I don't understand how that improves 8 whack. Isn't it about rushing your opponent down with creatures as quickly as possible? You can't be that concerned about your life total - you're playing Ramunap Ruins for the extra reach. (Funnily enough, Emperion shuts down your Ruins' ability to make red mana.)

    Is it about the 8/8 body? I suppose that's one way of trying to compete with Hogaak in the Modern Degeneracy Olympics. No, I'll get my 8/8 out first. And you have to Assassin's Trophy it before you get to win! Howzat?!
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    You'll have to help me along over here a little. I don't understand how that improves 8 whack. Isn't it about rushing your opponent down with creatures as quickly as possible? You can't be that concerned about your life total - you're playing Ramunap Ruins for the extra reach. (Funnily enough, Emperion shuts down your Ruins' ability to make red mana.)

    Is it about the 8/8 body? I suppose that's one way of trying to compete with Hogaak in the Modern Degeneracy Olympics. No, I'll get my 8/8 out first. And you have to Assassin's Trophy it before you get to win! Howzat?!
    Kind of the latter. It makes you resistant or immune to a lot of the racing combos out there; phoenix and dredge have problems with it, it stops ad nauseum, etc. Skirk prospector turns it into a turn 3 combo which is nice, and it doesn't slow down the main gameplan except by making it a little less consistent.

    It might be better in the board then in the main, kind of like having Worship but as an 8/8 creature.

    I don't know if it is worth it, but it seems in line with Modern's current approach of aggro-combo.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2019-07-26 at 04:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I like madcap more as a transformative sideboard option, especially since a lot of decks you play against won't have many answers for it if you board it in game 2, but they will have if they see it game 1.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    With modern being so fast is there any way to make a really grindy combo deck win? Rakdos seems like a color that could really take off as a standalone deck, and has one of the coolest combos in modern.

    Whip of Erebos + Volcano Hellion.

    Rakdos recently got Seasoned Pyromancer, Dreadhorde Arcanist, and lightning skelemental as control elements which can 2f1 your opponent, they all get better with whip as a way to dredge them, and then infinite life combo off a decent creature card. Does this seem at all plausible?

    Whip is almost a 1 card combo with hellion, since you can return the hellion with whip itself if hellion is in the yard.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2019-07-30 at 07:27 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    I've seen some lists running skelemental et al, but here's the thing. Hogaak is busted. Disgustingly so. It's so bad people are main decking cards like Leyline of the Void and Surgical Extraction and winning tournaments because of it. If you're planning to play out of the graveyard, you need to be doing something that's similarly degenerate, because you're going to get splash hate just by virtue of Hogaak existing.

    Modern is a format where the good decks end the game by turn 3 with reasonable consistency. If you aren't killing your opponent by then you need to be able to stop literally any variation of combo opponent from doing so. Cards like Skelemental and Whip of Erebos just don't do that.

    Fair decks in modern look to do that by either playing about 2 playsets of discard and a quick clock, or by playing counterspells and card advantage engines. In legacy there's an oft spouted idea that once your playing force and blue cards your win condition is kinda irrelevant. Similar to this, in modern the other cards in your fair deck mostly serve to influence how you end the game and how you fair against other interactive decks.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    How is lightning skelemental a control card?
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    How is lightning skelemental a control card?
    it's discard or creature removal if it gets to swing, so I suppose it might actually play like one.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    it's discard or creature removal if it gets to swing, so I suppose it might actually play like one.
    No it won't.

    A creature that swings face once is not a control card. Mind Rot is not a control card. A situational Mind Rot is even less of a control card.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Lightning Skelemental is one of the quintessential midrange cards, in my opinion.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    Lightning Skelemental is one of the quintessential midrange cards, in my opinion.
    How can it be quintissential if people don't play it?
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    How can it be quintissential if people don't play it?
    There's literally a deck built around it seeing some play in Modern at the moment. And it's based on Blightning, which is itself definitely a quintessential midrange card.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Mind Rot is not a control card.
    I mean, it certainly isn't an aggro card, is it? Likewise, what could possibly combo with Mind Rot?
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    I mean, it certainly isn't an aggro card, is it? Likewise, what could possibly combo with Mind Rot?
    It's a bad card.
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    Default Re: Magic the Gathering Thread XXIV: *Slaps Roof* This Thread Can Hold So Many Chand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    No it won't.

    A creature that swings face once is not a control card. Mind Rot is not a control card. A situational Mind Rot is even less of a control card.
    If it said Lighting Command: Deal 4 damage to opponent and they discard two, it would be accomplishing the same thing. Emptying the opponents hand while progressing damage.
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