OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Peat]

That is a fantastic punchline.

[Goblin_Priest]

Blackwing's great, always on point. :P

[RMS Oceanic]

Blackwing being sensible about this

[ArkenBrony]

I saw the comic go up before i got the email about it. I don’t know true seeing well enough but it’s surprising it doesn’t tell this is happening. Good for the order though :)

[Cicciograna]

Flap, flap, flap, flap.

[Dragonus45]

Blackwing is just the best, the pacing feels just a bit slow here after having so long to speculate and work a lot if this out for ourselves but it is nice to get some solid grounding and confirmation of what is going on here.

[Vrock Bait]

Nice to see exactly were Roy’s sword actually went. Though is the fake dungeon connected to the dead end if the real dungeon is supposedly where the tunnel actually leads??

[Agi Hammerthief]

was hoping the moving through the portal again would lead to the gate, rather then a dead end.

[doctor23]

So to get back to the "outside" of the trap, and wait for Team Evil. They would need to disarm again. cross, and then wait for Team evil to ambush them yes? I mean that's not gonna happen cause they will head down the "real" tunnel first to see what's down there just checking to make sure I have order of operations right.

[carborundum]

Ah, Blackwing is the best.

So - lots of pre-existing small dungeons all over the place, hooked up when creating this door-topia, or lots of small dungeons, specially built, or... lots of entrances to one mega-dungeon in the neighbourhood?

[Cicciograna]

Hmmm, let's see.

When Blackwing checks the entrance, he sees only part of the scorch mark from the dead rat skull, and that's reasonable because it extends through both "sides" of the teleportation line, with one side beeing in green area, and the other being in yellow area.

Then he flies through, and he finds himself in green area, with no scorch mark visible. Makes sense.

Then Roy peers from yellow side through the line. He seems to be peering into green side. We could assume that that green side is connected to the green side where Blackwing is, but that might be a stretch. What puzzles me is that "behind" him there are Blackwing and the scorch mark! They shouldn't be in the same side!

[understatement]

I love how Belkar is essentially the audience.

[georger0171]

Then Roy peers from yellow side through the line. He seems to be peering into green side. We could assume that that green side is connected to the green side where Blackwing is, but that might be a stretch. What puzzles me is that "behind" him there are Blackwing and the scorch mark! They shouldn't be in the same side!

Well, if Roy looked behind him, he would've seen Blackwing, because of the Divination aura created by that spell.

[Sir_Norbert]

Great! I love how Blackwing has become so useful after the running joke about the party forgetting he even existed in the early books :P

[GreatWyrmGold]

This is the "Alright, chumps, here's how everything works, please stop making the same basic theories a thousand times" strip.

And also the "Blackwing is a pragmatic coward" strip.

[Seto]

Huh, that's interesting...

1. There's a double teleportation effect, depending on which way you enter the portal. The trap that leads to a random dungeon if you come from the door, and the one that Roy got his head through, that leads to a dead end. Except...

2. They function differently. Haley putting a dead rat head inside the trap spent its energy and disabled it for 20 seconds, giving the Order time to pass through. By contrast, Roy put his head inside the portal to look at the dead end, and it didn't "activate" and disappear.

3. Or do they? The scrying process and the possibility of several intruders entering the tunnel one after the other indicates that the portal is permanent, rather than a trap that activates once on contact and recharges after 20 seconds. Then why did the rat head work?

Am I overthinking this?
Also, I'm wondering about the dead end, what its purpose is, and what it means. Could it be a key for later?

[Cicciograna]

Well, if Roy looked behind him, he would've seen Blackwing, because of the Divination aura created by that spell.

Oooh, I understand what you mean. You are saying that the scorch mark is actually there where he is peering from, but that Blackwing is instead an image produced by the Divination effect. I get it now, thank you!

[Riftwolf]

I like this comic for going through various hypotheses and addressing them. We now know the answers to a lot of theories.
I'm guessing the teleported dungeon is deep below Monster Hollow, possibly as some kind of pseudo-underdark ecology that handwaves the second law of thermodynamics (the door portals could act as vents, I guess, and there's a magical source of power to keep the entropy out).

[GreatWyrmGold]

was hoping the moving through the portal again would lead to the gate, rather then a dead end.

Serini wouldn't want the Gate to be that easy to find. (And for that matter, neither would Elan. Or Rich.)

So to get back to the "outside" of the trap, and wait for Team Evil. They would need to disarm again. cross, and then wait for Team evil to ambush them yes? I mean that's not gonna happen cause they will head down the "real" tunnel first to see what's down there just checking to make sure I have order of operations right.

Problem #1: They haven't figured out how to get outside again. Unless disarming the trap from inside would work?

2. They function differently. Haley putting a dead rat head inside the trap spent its energy and disabled it for 20 seconds, giving the Order time to pass through. By contrast, Roy put his head inside the portal to look at the dead end, and it didn't "activate" and disappear.

3. Or do they? The scrying process and the possibility of several intruders entering the tunnel one after the other indicates that the portal is permanent, rather than a trap that activates once on contact and recharges after 20 seconds. Then why did the rat head work?

Am I overthinking this?

Possibly.

Haley was using her roguish trapfinding abilities to temporarily disable the magical trap. How does that work? Same way magical traps work in the first place, except it's an (Ex) ability so magic isn't directly involved. I guess intentional sabotage is more debilitating than typical function?

I like this comic for going through various hypotheses and addressing them. We now know the answers to a lot of theories.
I'm guessing the teleported dungeon is deep below Monster Hollow, possibly as some kind of pseudo-underdark ecology that handwaves the second law of thermodynamics (the door portals could act as vents, I guess, and there's a magical source of power to keep the entropy out).

Assuming that there aren't other entrances somewhere to places monsters/food can wander in from. Though Team Evil probably would have notice those by now...

[Ionathus]

Doom Tunnel and the Kill Skeleton is my favorite Hardy Boys mystery!

Great work, as always. I cackled.

[Metastachydium]

Two things:
1. it's good to see how much love Blackwing gets despite there being a whole thread about how he is a „mistake” with flat jokes;
2. while I was absolutely certain the space behind the screen is just a nondescript section of the same corridor the Order's in, seeing the crazy theories about the Gate being just there is truly a comfort.

[georger0171]

[QUOTE=Riftwolf;24895275
I'm guessing the teleported dungeon is deep below Monster Hollow, possibly as some kind of pseudo-underdark ecology that handwaves the second law of thermodynamics (the door portals could act as vents, I guess, and there's a magical source of power to keep the entropy out).[/QUOTE]

That actually seems like a plausible theory.

In other news, does anyone know of any spells that V or Durkon could use to determine their location?
I mean, Durkon knows his depth underground, but what about latitude/longitude?

[Metastachydium]

Problem #1: They haven't figured out how to get outside again. Unless disarming the trap from inside would work?

I'm pretty sure that's the case. A better question is whether disarming the trap permanently (instead of bypassing it) would trap Team Evil in the tunnel they entered or not.

[BaronOfHell]

It may be comfortable to know that the villains certainly couldn't have found the gate yet, but the heroes learning about this means it is only a matter of time before the villains figure it out as well, is my guess.

[Rjaye]

I was sure the familiar was just going to be there for a quick jab and a knock on how people treat familiars in 3.5 (and beyond) yet he's turned into one of my favourite B cast characters.

[Frozenstep]

Good to see the order testing out some of the ideas we were bouncing around. The fact that the other side is just a dead-end shoots down my theory that all they had to do was turn around to get to the gate.

[danielxcutter]

It may be comfortable to know that the villains certainly couldn't have found the gate yet, but the heroes learning about this means it is only a matter of time before the villains figure it out as well, is my guess.

Not really; none of the members of Team Evil have the Trapfinding ability. Unless they decide to use Detect Magic or something they might never figure it out, though once they do it's only a Greater Dispel Magic away from being suppressed.

Serini's probably smart enough to prepare against that though; that spell is literally a cantrip. The traps could be masked with something like Magic Aura or something, I guess, but I doubt that's the only thing.

[Book Wombat]

Thanks!

Very convincing Blackwing, flap flap.

[Metastachydium]

Not really; none of the members of Team Evil have the Trapfinding ability. Unless they decide to use Detect Magic or something they might never figure it out, though once they do it's only a Greater Dispel Magic away from being suppressed.

New crazy theory: the IFCC is sending a high-level mountebank in the general area as we speak.

Serini's probably smart enough

But then, she probably isn't (khm, her life and times, khm).