Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 80

Thread: Ancient Realms

  1. - Top - End - #31
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Hello Great Dragon, This is your Ranger from Ancient Realms!!! I'm stuck awake another one of my wonderful insomnia nights and finally have the energy to get some things rolling!

    I will say that what I have played in 5e is so much better than any that I played when I was younger! I love the layout of the game and the different ways we can play. I feel that you as our DM have gone above and beyond to welcome any and everyone into our little world and make the game as understandable as possible for all new members and first time players!

    Thank You for the great threads and the awesome world you take the time to share with everyone!

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Greetings, Ranger Tatankya !!

    I can't express how much I love having you Folks to game with.

    There's a lot in this thread, so take your time reading it. I'm in the process of re-organizing it, so don't be surprised by edited changes.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    i'm at a little bit of a loss, here.

    Seems that my Hello thread was closed.

    But, it is very difficult finding posts specific to me in Huge Threads, since I don't always have the time to read through all the other posts in that thread. (I do my best to do so, but can't always do that) Which means that I miss someone, and they think I'm ignoring them: which is what I was trying to avoid with my Hello thread.

    Such was my problem with the Welcome New Members Thread in the Friendly Banter Forum - which I do check sometimes to see who might be new. Similar problem with the Random Banter threads.

    As such I guess that anyone that wants to talk about the subjects in my Hello thread - in addition to Anything in this Thread (and related) will need to go and read it, compose and post your responses Comments/Questions about the contents into here.

    *****
    Now, I'll cut the Mods a break and save some time by stating

    Please don't put in single line or short posts !!
    If you really want to just say "Hello" and similar, please send me a PM, and I'll respond as quickly as possible.

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon
    Posting this PM for reference.

    A direct response even a once a week means a lot to me.
    And with my dedicated Hello thread killed, means that I can only really use PMs to contact people for just Stuff. I'm really not able to keep up with the Random Banter Threads, there are way too many posts that don't apply to me, and trying to scroll through to find a response to me simply takes way too long.

    I wish I was a quarter hundredth as good as Tawmis at writing a Story, because I really love my Worlds, and would enjoy sharing them with online people.

    And before anyone tries: don't even suggest me making a Website for my Games. Sure, I'm retired, but it's not just a lack of Time, it's being able to stay interested. I get bored when I'm just sitting by myself and typing information into a website, that I can't afford to maintain. The free ones don't support the kind of things that I want/need for what I want to do, either.

    And while Ancient Realms is a modified FR world, there are still lots of parts that no one has even seen. Mostly because I raid (and modify) all the material from the last 40+ years of D&D and compatible (splat) books, without regard to Edition (I just ignore old mechanics and replace with the new. I'm - ok, I guess - at conversions between most Editions >Except Fourth< of D&D)

    Also it seems that no one is really interested in my Game.

    What I have listed in the Thread here, is just a list of boring Facts and the two players from my game that joined the Site simply don't have the Time to post questions.

    *****
    I'd do some gaming on the Forum, but I'm not the best at PbP, even when I'm the DM.

    Seems that I have too many "No" responses for PCs.

    "No" Chaotic Neutral/Insane.
    "No" (mindless) Chaotic Evil.

    Restrictions on Bugbears and a lot of the Planescape/Plane Shift Races, like Vampires and Kalashtar.

    "Nerfing" the Hexblade so that the Hex-adin does't do as much "Coolness" as is desired by Online Munchkins.

    *****

    As mentioned, Dragonlance was a nice read, but didn't really have much to use in the way of putting into my world.

    (Although I maybe using the three Knightly Orders of Solamnia as sperate Organizations is a possibility)
    Dragonriders are a very rare thing and usually only Young Dragons tolerate it.

    Let me see,

    I loved Spelljammer, but it's a bit of a pain to run.
    I like Sandbox gaming, but I usually still have a limit on how large the area is.

    I didn't like Darksun. Very Survival based PvP style game.

    Birthright looked interesting, but needs the Players to be Sim-minded with mild PvP actions.

    I'll be honest, I only saw Galantry and Karameikos Realms from the old Mystara campaign

    Well, if you read all this - thanks!!
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-09-27 at 02:45 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I wish I was a quarter hundredth as good as Tawmis at writing a Story, because I really love my Worlds, and would enjoy sharing them with online people.
    Well, to be fair; I've written some stories that never got replies here. If you look up my DragonAge story or my Legend of Grimrock story; I don't think either of those ever saw a reply. My machinima series thread, hardly ever got a reply.

    I think the only reason the background thread is doing as well as it has been, is because it's for people specifically. So it's more personal. They're invested because it's their request.

    I have plenty of very unsuccessful threads on these forums!

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    And while Ancient Realms is a modified FR world, there are still lots of parts that no one has even seen. Mostly because I raid (and modify) all the material from the last 40+ years of D&D and compatible (splat) books, without regard to Edition (I just ignore old mechanics and replace with the new. I'm - ok, I guess - at conversions between most Editions >Except Fourth< of D&D)
    Also it seems that no one is really interested in my Game.
    I'd do some gaming on the Forum, but I'm not the best at PbP, even when I'm the DM.
    I mentioned this on the PM, but modern technology has driven down the popularity of Play By Email (PBeM) or PbP (Play By Post) these days.
    Something, I was just thinking, is consider using Discord, if you don't want to use Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds.
    Discord is a free, persistent chat room, that has voice capabilities - and has a dice roller bot you can install (I did it for the weekend game I now substitute for).

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    As mentioned, Dragonlance was a nice read, but didn't really have much to use in the way of putting into my world.
    Dragonlance is a great world, because it's well defined, but still so much left to explore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    (Although I maybe using the three Knightly Orders of Solamnia as sperate Organizations is a possibility)
    The Knights of Solmania were great... I wish there was an easy way to convert those to 5e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I loved Spelljammer, but it's a bit of a pain to run.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I didn't like Darksun. Very Survival based PvP style game.
    My memory of Darksun is shaky... but if I remember correctly, it focused on a lot of Psionics... one of the aspects that never sat well with me in D&D. Not sure why I never connected with that, even in 2nd Edition.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Howdy! and thanks for posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    I mentioned this on the PM, but modern technology has driven down the popularity of Play By Email (PBeM) or PbP (Play By Post) these days.
    I didn't feel right trying to post anything you did in the PMs, and left that open for you to decide on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    Well, to be fair; I've written some stories that never got replies here. If you look up my DragonAge story or my Legend of Grimrock story; I don't think either of those ever saw a reply.
    My machinima series thread, hardly ever got a reply.
    I have plenty of very unsuccessful threads on these forums!
    I suppose that people are more picky these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    I think the only reason the background thread is doing as well as it has been, is because it's for people specifically. So it's more personal. They're invested because it's their request.
    This is most likely very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    Something, I was just thinking, is consider using Discord, if you don't want to use Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds.
    Discord is a free, persistent chat room, that has voice capabilities - and has a dice roller bot you can install (I did it for the weekend game I now substitute for).
    I just recently joined both Discord and D&D Beyond.
    Roll20 and FG, would require dedicated people for me to interact with on there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    Dragonlance is a great world, because it's well defined, but still so much left to explore.

    The Knights of Solmania were great... I wish there was an easy way to convert those to 5e.
    Humm - I'd most likely make Sword a variant of Champion and Crown a variant of Samurai fighters, with Rose being Paladins (Any).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    My memory of Darksun is shaky... but if I remember correctly, it focused on a lot of Psionics... one of the aspects that never sat well with me in D&D. Not sure why I never connected with that, even in 2nd Edition.
    Well, even Good Magic still killed nearby plants, and Dark magic killed anything alive nearby.
    Both Druid and Cleric magic didn't exist.

    It wasn't the "Survive in the Desert" part of the World that was my problem really, it was that all the Races were extremely hostile to each other, and sometimes even their own kind.
    Too much negative PvP in Darksun Campaigns for my taste.

    Most people still view Psionics as Sci-Fi and not Fantasy.

    iME - 3e Psionics was a little weird, and was even more OP than most Quadratic Wizards, since they could move their Points around for best effect. Changing Magic to Point Based made both about equally silly.
    Give the Martials the abilities from the Tome of Battle in the Psi/Magic Point system and things evened out a lot better. But, it took quite a bit of patient work.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-09-25 at 12:18 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I suppose that people are more picky these days.
    Well, both were posted here back in 2013.
    - Dragon Age: Life Begins With Death
    - Legend of Grimrock: Destiny's Chance.

    Funny thing is, where the LOG story stops, is nowhere near where I "stopped" writing. I think the lack of interest/replies, made me stop posting here for that. I had long since, moved it to my site, and continued to add there (from when I was posting on the official forum) - The Site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    This is most likely very true.
    I know it is! That's why I said it! :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I just recently joined both Discord and D&D Beyond.
    Roll20 and FG, would require dedicated people for me to interact with on there.
    Good avenues (Discord, D&D Beyond has been good and bad for me)

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Humm - I'd most likely make Sword a variant of Champion and Crown a variant of Samurai fighters, with Rose being Paladins (Any).
    The odd transition (requiring to be Sword first, before going into Crown, and needing to be Crown first, in order to be Rose), would, in 5e, require multiclassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Well, even Good Magic still killed nearby plants, and Dark magic killed anything alive nearby.
    Both Druid and Cleric magic didn't exist.
    It wasn't the "Survive in the Desert" part of the World that was my problem really, it was that all the Races were extremely hostile to each other, and sometimes even their own kind.
    Too much negative PvP in Darksun Campaigns for my taste.
    Ah yes. All reasons for my memory to be shaky on Darksun, as I rarely played it.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    The odd transition (requiring to be Sword first, before going into Crown, and needing to be Crown first, in order to be Rose), would, in 5e, require multiclassing.
    Yeah, that requirement would absolutely have to go for 5e.
    Personality I always did hate those requirements, since if you wanted to get max levels in everything, the PC would be 50th level !!

    20 Fighter* + 10 Crown + 10 Sword + 10 Rose.
    (*Treated as Paladin with enough levels in the correct PrC)

    For 5e, Multiclassing my idea of Crown or Sword (fighter) plus Rose (paladin) would be possible, but otherwise = nope.

    IDK, maybe make them different named levels in a Paladin Subclass.

    Playtesters needed.
    Spoiler: Oath of Solamnia
    Show

    Third: Crown
    An ideal Knight of the Crown is humble

    Features: (WIP)
    Strength of Honor (Su): Once per day, a 1st level Knight of the Crown can gain advantage on Strength checks and skills for a number of rounds equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. For every 3 additional levels she advances as a Knight of the Crown, she can gain this bonus an additional time each day. Activating this ability is a Bonus action.

    Heroic Initiative (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Knight of the Crown can add their Wisdom to initiative checks.

    Fight to the Death (Ex): At 3rd level: When reduced to below Zero Hit Points, you automatically become stable.

    Seventh: Sword
    "Skilled in battle"

    Features: (WIP)
    Armored Mobility: At 7th level, can wear Heavy Armor and use Stealth without Disadvantage.

    Soul of Knighthood: Any weapon the knight uses in combat is considered a holy weapon for purposes of overcoming the damage reduction of evil outsiders.

    Fifteenth: Rose
    Virtues of forgiveness, redemption and wisdom: A Knight of the Rose is expected to honor the gods of Good at all times and in all acts, to fight for justice without regard to personal safety or comfort, to refuse to submit to any evil foe, and to sacrifice all in the name of honor.

    Features: (WIP)
    Rallying Cry: as a Bonus Action, allow all allies within 30 feet to use their Reaction to make an Attack.

    Inspire Greatness Can affect up to Charisma modifier in allies within 30 feet.
    A creature inspired with greatness gains temporary hit points equal to 2d10 Hit Dice (apply the
    target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice) and Advantage on Constitution Saves.

    Twentieth

    Features (WIP)
    Final Stand: Once per day a Rose Knight can inspire troops to a heroic effort, temporarily increasing their vitality. All allies within 10 feet of the knight gain 5d10 temporary hit points. This ability affects a number of creatures equal to the knight’s class level + his Charisma modifier and lasts up to an hour.

    Knighthood’s Flower: A Knight of the Rose is the living embodiment of all that the Knights of Solamnia stand for: honor, wisdom, and justice. He gains complete immunity to compulsion effects (except harmless effects, such as aid).
    In addition, once per long rest, the knight can call upon the wisdom inherent in the Measure to grant himself the benefit of the foresight spell for a duration of 100 minutes. The knight can only gain foresight regarding himself, not another creature.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-09-27 at 01:14 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Playtesters needed.
    Spoiler: Oath of Solamnia
    Show

    Third: Crown
    An ideal Knight of the Crown is humble

    Features: (WIP)
    Strength of Honor (Su): Once per day, a 1st level Knight of the Crown can gain advantage on Strength checks and skills for a number of rounds equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. For every 3 additional levels she advances as a Knight of the Crown, she can gain this bonus an additional time each day. Activating this ability is a Bonus action.

    Heroic Initiative (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Knight of the Crown can add their Wisdom to initiative checks.
    Fight to the Death (Ex): At 3rd level: When reduced to below Zero Hit Points, you automatically become stable.

    Seventh: Sword
    "Skilled in battle"

    Features: (WIP)
    Armored Mobility: At 7th level, can wear Heavy Armor and use Stealth without Disadvantage.

    Soul of Knighthood: Any weapon the knight uses in combat is considered a holy weapon for purposes of overcoming the damage reduction of evil outsiders.

    Fifteenth: Rose
    Virtues of forgiveness, redemption and wisdom: A Knight of the Rose is expected to honor the gods of Good at all times and in all acts, to fight for justice without regard to personal safety or comfort, to refuse to submit to any evil foe, and to sacrifice all in the name of honor.

    Features: (WIP)
    Rallying Cry: as a Bonus Action, allow all allies within 30 feet to use their Reaction to make an Attack.

    Inspire Greatness Can affect up to Charisma modifier in allies within 30 feet.
    A creature inspired with greatness gains temporary hit points equal to 2d10 Hit Dice (apply the
    target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice) and Advantage on Constitution Saves.

    Twentieth

    Features (WIP)
    Final Stand: Once per day a Rose Knight can inspire troops to a heroic effort, temporarily increasing their vitality. All allies within 10 feet of the knight gain 5d10 temporary hit points. This ability affects a number of creatures equal to the knight’s class level + his Charisma modifier and lasts up to an hour.

    Knighthood’s Flower: A Knight of the Rose is the living embodiment of all that the Knights of Solamnia stand for: honor, wisdom, and justice. He gains complete immunity to compulsion effects (except harmless effects, such as aid).
    In addition, once per long rest, the knight can call upon the wisdom inherent in the Measure to grant himself the benefit of the foresight spell for a duration of 100 minutes. The knight can only gain foresight regarding himself, not another creature.
    I like this; it's similar to how it worked in Dragonlance RPG, if I remember correctly. Essentially you need "X" amount of levels to progress into each. I remember some other specifics, for requirements, but for the life of me can't remember what they were.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    I like this; it's similar to how it worked in Dragonlance RPG, if I remember correctly. Essentially you need "X" amount of levels to progress into each. I remember some other specifics, for requirements, but for the life of me can't remember what they were.
    Thanks!

    Spoiler: Oath and Measure
    Show

    (Mechanics) To qualify to become a Knight of the Crown, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    Alignment: Lawful good. Base Attack Bonus: +3. Base Save Bonus: Fort +4.
    Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Ride 2 ranks.
    Feats: Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Honorbound, Martial Weapon Proficiency (any one), Shield Proficiency.
    Special: Squire of the Crown: The character must already have been accepted as a squire.
    All characters who want to become Solamnic Knights must first enter the knighthood as squires of the Knights of the Crown. (A candidate may be of any class or level to apply as a squire.) All knights begin their training in the virtue of loyalty.
    The candidate for Solamnic Knighthood must be presented to a Knightly Council and be sponsored by a knight in good standing from any of the Solamnic Orders. The candidate swears an oath to the honor of the knighthood, to the causes of
    the order, and to allegiance to the order, and vows to live by the Oath and the Measure.
    If there is no dissent from the knights, and no question of honor regarding the candidate is brought forth, he is accepted into the knighthood as a squire. Any question of the candidate’s honor requires that he be interrogated. If the question
    of honor is dismissed, then the candidate is accepted normally. If the question is found valid in the Council, the candidate is dismissed until the question of honor can be satisfied.
    Optionally, the Dungeon Master may allow a player character to begin a campaign as a Squire: Once a character has advanced at least one level (in any class) during the period as a squire and fulfills the requirements for the Knights of the Crown, the squire may petition at the next Knightly Council for full knighthood.

    The Measure of the Crown Knight
    The Order of the Crown exemplifies the ideals of Loyalty and Obedience in all that a knight is and does. Loyalty requires unquestioned obedience to higher power and authority, as long as that power and authority follows and adheres to the precepts set forth in the Oath and the Measure.

    Loyalty is due to one’s family, all that is good, those oppressed by evil, and those monarchs who by decree and common consent of the Knightly Councils are in good standing with the Knighthood and deserving of its honorable loyalty and protection.

    Acts befitting a Knight of the Crown include:
    * Unquestioned obedience to those whose authority is righteously maintained in the Knightly Councils.
    * Dedication to the ideals of the Measure.
    * Loyalty to brother knights of all orders.
    * All other acts that cause the strengthening of loyalty among the knights.

    Responsibilities of a Crown Knight
    A Knight of the Crown must serve and aid any fellow knight who is on the business of his order and requires assistance, and serve the kingdoms on the List of Loyalty as compiled by the Grand Circle of Knights. Failure to fulfill these duties may cause the honor of a knight to be questioned, and may cause their knighthood to be stripped from them.

    Sword Knight Requirements
    (Mechanics) To qualify to become a Knight of the Sword, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    Alignment: Lawful good. Base Attack Bonus: +6. Base Save Bonuses: Will +4.
    Skills: Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Ride 4 ranks.
    Feats: Diehard, Endurance, Honor-bound.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells.
    Special: To become a Knight of the Sword, the character must have at least one level of the Knight of the Crown prestige class and the knightly courage class ability.

    Sword Knightly Virtue: A character must be a Knight of the Crown in good standing before he can petition the Order of the Sword to be accepted into that body. During his time as a Knight of the Crown, the candidate must demonstrate his virtue
    and his adherence to the Oath and the Measure.

    Before one can apply to a Knightly Council for acceptance into the Order of the Sword, s/he must have accomplished all the following, and be able to present witnesses to attest to his performance:
    * A journey of 500 miles or more in length and 30 days or more in time.
    * Three tests of the knight’s wisdom.
    * One test of his generosity.
    * One test of compassion.
    * The restoration of something that was lost.
    * Single combat with a worthy evil opponent (whose Challenge Rating is no more than two lower than the knight’s character level).
    * A deed of heroism and valor that upholds the virtues of knightly honor and good.

    Measure: Knights of the Sword act as warriors for the gods of Good, upholding the purest ideals of
    heroism and courage. Heroism is the willingness to sacrifice one’s self for one’s beliefs.
    Heroic deeds include:
    * Strengthening the weak.
    * Enriching the poor.
    * Freeing the enslaved.
    * Exonerating the falsely accused.
    * Championing the defenseless.
    * Aiding fellow knights in need.
    * Courage is the readiness to die honorably in the fight for Good. Courageous acts include:
    * Facing evil fearlessly.
    * Defending the honor of the knighthood.
    * Defending the honor of a fellow knight.
    * Protecting the defenseless and weak.

    Responsibilities of a Sword Knight
    A Knight of the Sword must pay homage to KiriJolith and the deities of Good each day, eagerly engage evil opponents in combat (not retreating regardless of the enemy’s strength), protect the weak and defenseless, and forswear use of
    knightly powers for unrighteous reasons.

    Rose Knight
    (Mechanics) Alignment: Lawful good. Base Attack Bonus: +8. Base Save Bonuses: Will +7.
    Skills: Diplomacy 8 ranks, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 8 ranks, Ride 8 ranks.
    Feats: Endurance, Honor-bound, Leadership, and Mounted Combat.
    Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells.
    Special: To become a Knight of the Rose, the character must have at least one level of the Knight of the Crown prestige class and the knightly courage Crown Knight class ability. He must also have at least three levels in the Knight of the Sword prestige class and the aura of courage Sword Knight class ability.

    Knightly Virtue: A character must be a Knight of the Sword in good standing before he can petition the Order of the Rose to be accepted into that body. During his time as a Knight of the Sword, the candidate must demonstrate his virtue and his
    adherence to the Oath and the Measure. Before he can apply to a Knightly Council for acceptance into the Order of the Rose, they must have accomplished all the following, and be able to present witnesses to attest to his performance:
    * (Another) journey of 500 miles or more in length and 30 days or more in time.
    * One test of the knight’s wisdom.
    * Three tests of his generosity.
    * Three tests of compassion.
    * The restoration of something that was lost.
    * Single combat with a worthy evil opponent (whose Challenge Rating is equal to or greater than the knight’s character level).

    Measure: The Order of the Rose embraces honor guided by justice and wisdom. Honor is the allegiance to one’s oath to defend the cause of good. Justice is the heart of the Measure and the soul of a Rose Knight. Justice requires that the Rose
    Knight render to everyone—creature, person, or deity—his or her due.

    Acts befitting a Rose Knight include:
    * Having compassion for the less fortunate.
    * Sacrificing one’s life for the sake of others.
    * Giving no thought to one’s own safety in defense of the Knighthood.
    * Protecting the lives of fellow knights.
    * Seeing that no life is wasted or sacrificed in vain.

    Responsibilities of a Rose Knight
    A Knight of the Rose is expected to honor the gods of Good at all times and in all acts, to fight for justice without regard to personal safety or comfort, to refuse to submit to any evil foe, and to sacrifice all in the name of honor.


    WIP = expect Edits.
    Spoiler: Knights of Neraka
    Show

    These knights were formerly known as the Knights of Takhisis or simply “Dark Knights” because those who belonged to the order were devoted to the goals of the Queen of Darkness. Each Knight took a Blood Oath and followed a Vision of “One World Order.” Their honor and discipline was dictated by a strict and harsh Code

    Test of Takhisis
    When members of the order were still called the Knights of Takhisis, they had to pass a dangerous test of loyalty to prove that their hearts were loyal to the purpose of the Dark Queen’s Vision. Now, as the Knights of Neraka, they still must pass a test—but one designed to ensure that squires are dedicated to the order itself, rather than to the ideals of the fallen goddess. Some still refer to this rite as the “Test of Takhisis,” even though it serves a wholly opposite intent. Ranking knights of all three orders are present to administer the test, with the two spellcasters using combinations of spells to create illusions and mental images that seem absolutely real to the squire. The test centers around three themes: Vision, Order, and Obedience. Problems given in the test include the following assessments: Will the knight sacrifice whatever is necessary— power, fortune, a loved companion, life itself—to remain loyal to the order? Is obedience more important to the tested knight than sentiment and compassion? Will the knight obey a command even if means the sacrifice of the knight’s own life or the lives of those he loves? Rare cases may require the knight to go on an important quest in lieu of an illusionary test, though the problems faced in such a test are inevitably similar. Failure of the test results in death. But if the knight passes the ordeal, he is taken to a dark temple for four days of fasting and prayer, at the end of which the Skull Knights name him a new Knight of Neraka, who may then join his new order. The Blood Oath “Submit or die” is the phrase that binds all Dark Knights to their cause. They must obey the will of their superiors. All personal considerations must be secondary. Total obedience does not mean that a Dark Knight is not allowed to use intelligence or creativity, however. Their use is dictated by the Code. The Code The Code is a firm set of laws, based in part on the Measure of the Solamnic Knights. The text is direct and the rules are strict, but there is room for exceptions and flexibility. The Code is written primarily to deal with military situations, but cleverly phrased so that it applies directly to the personal lives of the Dark Knights. Matters can be disputed and adjudicated by high-ranking knights, with each case decided on its own merits.

    Lily Knights
    Their most basic tenet teaches that strength is achieved through conformity and uniformity. Free-thinking and individuality result in chaos. Knights of the Lily are committed to world conquest.

    Requirements Alignment: Lawful evil
    Base Attack Bonus: +5. Skills: Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks. Feats: Honor-bound. Special: Squire of the Lily: A candidate wanting to become a Knight of the Lily must have a patron (a Knight of the Lily of at least 3rd level). If deemed acceptable, the candidate becomes a squire of the Lily. Optionally, the Dungeon Master may allow a player character to begin a campaign as a squire. Test of Takhisis: Once a character has advanced at least one level (in any class) during the period as a squire and fulfills the requirements for the Knights of the Lily, the squire may petition to undertake the Test of Takhisis. If the applicant passes, he is accepted as a knight in the Order of the Lily.

    Features
    3rd level: Sneak Attack bonuses to damage stack.

    Demoralize (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Knight of the Lily gains a +2 profane bonus on Intimidate checks made to demoralize an opponent in combat. If the knight’s check is successful, the target is shaken for 1 round per class level of the knight.

    Fight to the Death (Ex): At 3rd level, a Knight of the Lily gains the Diehard feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not have the prerequisite feat. Unbreakable Will (Su): At 4th level a Knight of the Lily has such devotion to his cause that he becomes immune to fear effects. In addition, he receives a +2 morale bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting magic. This bonus increases to +4 at 8th level.

    Skull Knight
    “Death is patient. It flows both from without and from within. Be vigilant in all and skeptical of all.” Entering battle with strength and divine magic, Knights of the Skull are the spirit of the Dark Knights, like the Order of the Lily is the body and Order of the Thorn is the mind. The Skull Knights can be both brutal and subtle in their work, wielding divine magic against enemies in battle, and using seduction, manipulation, and diplomacy to achieve their goals. Skull Knights are often placed as ambassadors or advisers to foreign powers. Such postings take advantage of their natural skill at intrigue, which they supplement with the power of their divine magic. When deployed with other Dark Knights, they act as a secret police, keeping a close watch on every knight’s activities and reporting violations of the Code to their superiors.

    Favor of Darkness: the Knight of the Skull is a virtual embodiment of evil. Any melee weapon that the character wields is considered an (unholy) magical weapon for purposes of bypassing the damage reduction of certain good outsiders. In addition, the weapon deals an additional +1d6 points of necrotic (unholy) damage to any good creature it hits.
    The weapon loses both properties as soon as the Knight of the Skull stops touching it.

    One Thought: At 10th level, Dark Knights working as a group have perfected their uniformity to the point where they almost seem to share a common mind. A 10th-level knight is not surprised or flat-footed if any other Dark Knight (of any level) within 100 feet is not surprised. He also cannot be considered flanked unless every other Knight of the Lily within 100 feet is also flanked. These benefits apply only to a 10th-level knight, not to any other Knight of the Lily nearby.

    Thorn
    “One who follows the heart finds it will bleed. Feel nothing but victory.” The Knights of the Thorn are also known as the “gray robes” for the ash-colored robes they wear to indicate that they do not serve the Orders of High Sorcery. In addition to wielding devastating arcane magic, Thorn Knights are seers and diviners, working to understand how every person and event fits into their order’s design. Thorn Knights are able to see and understand seemingly random events as part of a grand design. While the Order of the Skull seeks to manipulate people and events, the Thorn Knights try to profit from a greater understanding of fate. Their pursuit of forbidden magic outside the laws of the Conclave allows them access to magical secrets to enhance their spellcasting.

    Requirements To qualify to become a Knight of the Thorn, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Lawful evil. Base Attack Bonus: +3. Base Save Bonus: Fort +4, Will +3. Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks. Feat: Any one metamagic feat, Armor Proficiency (heavy), Martial Weapon Proficiency (all). Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.
    Special: Squire of the Lily: A candidate wanting to become a Knight of the Thorn must have a sponsor (a Knight of the Thorn of at least 3rd level). If deemed acceptable, the candidate is considered a squire of the Lily (even though he will eventually be a Thorn Knight). Optionally, the Dungeon Master may allow a player character to begin a campaign as a squire. Test of Takhisis: Once a character has advanced at least one level (in any class) during the period as a squire and fulfills the requirements for the Knights of the Thorn, the squire may petition to undertake the Test of Takhisis (see sidebar). If the applicant passes, he can be accepted as a knight in the Order of the Thorn.

    Aura of Terror: the Knight is surrounded by a palpable aura of evil magic that makes other creatures—even other Knights of Neraka—uneasy and fearful. Creatures within 10 feet of the knight must make a successful Will save (DC 8 + proficiency + Cha modifier) or become shaken. A creature that successfully saves is immune to that knight’s aura of terror for one day.

    Weapon Touch: At 4th level, a Knight of the Thorn gains the ability to deliver touch spells by means of a melee attack, channeling spells through his weapon. Delivering a spell in this manner requires a normal melee attack, rather than a melee touch attack. If the attack is successful, the knight deals normal weapon damage in addition to the effects of the spell. If the attack is unsuccessful, the spell is discharged and wasted (unless the spell allows the caster to deliver multiple touches). As with a normal touch spell, the knight can cast the spell and make the attack in the same round; however, doing so is a full-round action and so the knight cannot move more than a 5-foot step between casting the spell and delivering the attack.


    Spoiler: Comments
    Show
    Honestly, I’m most likely going to change Thorn to the next up from Lily. I’m not sure what to call the last Knight.

    The “Grey Robes” are known as the Skull Order, consisting of Evil versions of Arcane Clerics, Sorcerers, Necromancer Wizards and Warlocks. While not directly a part of the dark knights, the Skull Order got their start with them, and remain closely linked in many ways. The Skull Oder, like the High Tower Mages (which are actually Arcane Clerics in my DL version) support the cause of spreading the understanding of Magic, but don’t have the strict control on what can be researched or used by members.


    Spoiler: Legion of Steel
    Show

    In contrast to the other knightly organizations, the Legion of Steel is not a rigid hierarchy divided into three orders, nor does it follow a rigid code of codes and measures. Instead, its members—including disillusioned former knights of the other two orders—are loosely grouped into cells beholden only to an oral tradition called Sara’s Legacy. Named after the Legion’s founder Sara Dunstan, the Legacy teaches a few central virtues without codifying virtue into legislation: to always have the courage to do what is right; to gain strength through self-knowledge; to remain vigilant against danger and injustice; to respect virtue in all its forms; to grant justice to all beings; and to fight for one’s beliefs unto death. The Legion of Steel counts characters of all classes as members—not just knightly fighters and paladins, but stealthy rogues and rangers, mystics and sorcerers, bards and barbarians. A legionnaire is defined not by her abilities and powers, but by her commitment to the Legacy.

    Alignment: Legionnaires all share a good alignment, though they sometimes engage in activities that some might find questionable in the name of a greater good. Unlike Solamnic Knights and Dark Knights, legionnaires are as often chaotic as lawful, believing that too much regulation and discipline quickly stifles the cause of good.
    The Legion of Steel admits characters of any race to its ranks, making it easily the most diverse and inclusive organization in Ansalon.

    Requirements To qualify to become a steel legionnaire, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Any nonevil. Base Attack Bonus: +4. Base Save Bonuses: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2. Skills: Bluff 3 ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks, any one skill 9 ranks.

    Favored Enemy: as Ranger.

    Reputation (Ex): Steel legionnaires are widely regarded as champions of the common people. When dealing with working-class or poor individuals, steel legionnaires of 2nd level or higher gain a +4 circumstance bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks. Apprentice: At 3rd level, a steel legionnaire has the option of taking on an apprentice. This apprentice is a cohort whose abilities are determined exactly as though the character had the Leadership feat (although she cannot gain followers as a result of this ability). The steel legionnaire is responsible for training this apprentice in the Legacy and the work of the Legion, as well as for protecting him from danger and corruption.


    Don't feel bad: While Dragonlance goes back to 1e, they didn't actually make a (kind of) PHB until 3e. I had to scour the Net to find the Info that is in all the Spoilers.

    For the most part - the Requirements* were rather vague (on purpose) and only gave a short list for getting into the next Prestige Class up the Chain: Sword/Crown/Rose.

    Lots of Honor-based actions that emphasized the Oath and Measure, and doing Quests for the Greater Good (See Measure Spoiler)

    * The book stated that this way, the DM could allow either pure Mechanics - gain the basic Fighter, BaB, Feats, etc - and get the PrC, or go more RP, where the Player records each Heroic and Honorable Deed, and actually plays through the Trial/s for acceptance to each new PrC: With the other Players as witnesses.

    I'd have to do some more research, I did find the actual Oath and Measure codes, and I might use them for some of the Standard Paladins. Also, I believe that the original Knights of Takhisis would be a more interesting Oathbreaker and/or Conquest Paladin.

    Sadly, I see way more of the Mechanics over Roleplay being done for PC creation, these days.
    Where even the Background is simply chosen to give the build more 'umph' in emphasizing whatever Build they are aiming for.

    I'm always glad to see examples of Roleplay, but actually do like a balance with Mechanics. After all they are both a part of the Game/s.

    Which is why I really like your dedicated Backstories Thread, and love seeing people ask you for this: Keeps my hopes up. Kinda wish more members were interested poisting in my Character Building thread. Sigh.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-11-26 at 08:38 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    (I dislike super-long posts)

    Query: Would giving the Revised Ranger more Extra Attacks (total of 4 at 20th level) sound reasonable? Maybe limited to the Fighting Style they chose at 1st level?

    The Fighter's Action Surge is what makes them stand out = at Twentieth level 8 attacks plus a Bonus Action (plus a Reaction)

    Edit: I'm wanting to add extra Favored Enemies. Up to a maximum of 5 at Twentieth level.

    Q2 = Would the above plus the following be too much?
    Spoiler: Additional Options
    Show
    Combining (with some modifications) UA #8 and UA #18 and adding to PHB Ranger.

    Animal Companion At 3rd level, you learn to use your magic to create a powerful bond with a creature of the natural world. With 1 hour of work and the expenditure of 50 gp worth of rare herbs and fine food, you call forth an animal from the wilderness to serve as your faithful companion. You can normally select your companion from among the following animals: an ape, a black bear, a boar, a giant badger, a giant weasel, a mule, a panther, or a wolf. However, your DM might pick one of these animals for you, based on the surrounding terrain and on what types of creatures would logically be present in the area. At the end of the Ritual, your animal companion appears and gains all the benefits of your Companion’s Bond ability. You can have only one animal companion at a time. If your animal companion is ever slain, the magical bond you share allows you to redo the Ritual and return it to life.


    Your animal companion gains the benefits of your Favored Enemy feature, and of your Greater Favored Enemy feature when you gain that feature at 6th level. It uses the favored enemies you selected for those features.

    Coordinated Attack Beginning at 5th level, you and your animal companion form a more potent fighting team. When you use the Attack action on your turn, if your companion can see you, it can use its reaction to make a melee attack.

    Beast’s Defense At 7th level, while your companion can see you, it has advantage on all saving throws.

    Storm of Claws and Fangs 11th level (Modified) Multi-attack one target or your companion can use its action to make a melee attack against each creature of its choice within 5 feet of it, with a separate attack roll for each target.

    Superior Beast’s Defense: At 15th level, whenever an attacker that your companion can see hits it with an attack, it can use its reaction to halve the attack’s damage against it.

    Note: When you gain your animal companion at 3rd level, its proficiency bonus matches yours at +2.
    As you gain levels and increase your proficiency bonus, remember that your companion’s proficiency bonus improves as well, and is applied to the following areas: Armor Class, skills, saving throws, attack bonus, and damage rolls.

    Ambuscade 6th level Ranger. When you roll initiative, you gain a special turn that takes place before other creatures can act. On this turn, you can use your Reaction to take either the Attack or Hide action.
    If more than one creature in an encounter has this feature, they all act first in order of initiative, then the regular initiative order begins. If you would normally be surprised at the start of an encounter, you are not surprised but you do not gain this extra turn. (having both Observant and Alert grants full benefits, and Advantage to hit with this reaction as well as Advantage to Initiative with the Plus Five added)

    Foe Slayer At 20th level, you become an unparalleled hunter. Once on each of your turns, you can add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or the damage roll of an attack you make. You can choose to use this feature before or after the roll, but before any effects of the roll are applied.


    Spoiler: BEASTmaster
    Show

    Here I have some options: I’m considering the first, like the second and might see if I can combine both without overbalancing the Archetype.
    ONE
    At 3rd level, your companion can be any Beast of up to half your Ranger level.

    At 11th level, your companion can be any Monstrosity up to one third of your Ranger level.
    I would discount Humanoid Monstrosities from the list.
    Chimera = Yes. Medusa = No. Drider = Maybe?

    TWO
    At 3rd level, you form a spiritual bond with a natural creature.
    This companion protects you as you travel and watches your back in battle.
    You choose a ranger path that shapes your companion and its magic: the Guardian, the Seeker, or the Stalker.

    Guardian By following the path of the Guardian, you protect the natural world from creatures that would despoil it, even as you engage with the common folk who rely upon nature’s bounty to survive.
    You patrol the pathways through the wilds, keeping them clear of bandits and rampaging monsters, even as you keep careful watch on how civilized realms interact with the wilderness. Those who take more than their fair share — clear-cutting forests or hunting for sport rather than survival — risk your wrath. Your spirit companion is one of the following: An ape, a black bear, a boar, a giant badger, a giant weasel, a panther, or a wolf.

    Guardian’s Duty: The ranger can choose an ally that they can see and that is within ten feet of their companion.
    As a Bonus Action, the Companion can impose Disadvantage to any single attack against the ally.
    If the attack would still hit the Companion’s AC, they take the damage of the attack.

    Seeker: Your companion can be a giant eagle, a giant owl, or any bird the DM allows.
    Your companion lends its sharp combat senses to you and your companions. As a bonus action, you choose a creature you can see. Until the end of your next turn, all attacks made against the chosen creature have advantage.

    Stalker Choose yourself or an ally you can see and within ten feet of your companion, as a Reaction your companion can distract a foe and increase the Threat range of weapons by one point.
    Also, the companion can grant all allies within ten feet Advantage to Stealth checks.


    Spoiler: Rogue option
    Show

    Skirmisher’s Stealth Stolen from UA #8 Ranger
    Beginning at 5th level, you combine speed and stealth in combat to make yourself hard to pin down. You are difficult to detect even if you attack or otherwise take actions that would normally reveal your presence. At the start of your turn, pick a creature you are hidden from. You remain hidden from that creature during your turn, regardless of your actions or the actions of other creatures.
    (Modified) You have Advantage when you use the Hide action.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-10-02 at 11:12 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    (I dislike long posts)
    Querry: Would giving the Revised Ranger more Extra Attacks (total of 4 at 20th level) sound reasonable? Maybe limited to the Fighting Style they chose at 1st level?
    The Fighter's Action Surge is what makes them stand out = at Twentieth level 8 attacks plus a Bonus Action (plus a Reaction)
    I'd like to get a character to Level 20 to see how it plays. Currently my highest 5e character in a game I play in is Level 7.
    The highest for the characters I DM for is 4.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis View Post
    I'd like to get a character to Level 20 to see how it plays.
    Currently my highest 5e character in a game I play in is Level 7.
    The highest for the characters I DM for is 4.
    I am also curious, as well.
    Check out Edited options.

    Now with a few players willing to test these Ideas, I might have some feedback by the end of the year.

    I'm going to work on Ranger and a few other Classes as I have time.

    *****
    The new Decent into Avernus has a nice New Background: Faceless; I imagine that it's like being the Adventuring version of a Luchador Wrestler - so long as the "Mask" is on, everyone loves you.

    Very interesting Balder's Gate Origins and Personality Traits/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws for several classic Backgrounds, as well.

    Comments in Avernus Thread
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-10-02 at 10:52 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    The new Decent into Avernus has a nice New Background: Faceless; I imagine that it's like being the Adventuring version of a Luchador Wrestler - so long as the "Mask" is on, everyone loves you.
    I've not read about the Faceless background; but my first thought was not wrestling; but rather Game of Thrones.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis View Post
    I've not read about the Faceless background; but my first thought was not wrestling; but rather Game of Thrones.
    Well, since I've never seen any of GoT, I suppose that is why I went with Wrestling.

    Which GoT Character?
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Well, since I've never seen any of GoT, I suppose that is why I went with Wrestling.
    Which GoT Character?
    I am always surprised when someone in a fantasy setting hasn't at least seen the Game of Thrones series (never surprised when they've not read the books).

    Anyway, it's primarily Arya Stark, because of the teachings of The House of Black And White in the city Braavos, which is dedicated to the May Faced God, which taught them how to be Faceless Men.

    The Faceless Men possess the ability to physically change their faces, shapeshifting so that they appear as an entirely new person.

    The Faceless Men are based on the Order of Assassins, a Nizari Islamic secret society that was active in the Middle East during the 11th to 13th centuries.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    @Tawmis: Actually, the biggest reason why I haven't seen GoT is mostly because I'm cut off from most forms of TV/Cable and I while I do have free time on some days, I'm usually working on getting the next game figured out on those days; otherwise I'd be watching the Critical Role podcast on Youtube every day until I caught up again. I just hope I can find a (preferably Free) cheap site that has GoT and other shows I'm interested in, when I get there.
    - Also of note, I'm also not able to do Video Games right now, and will only have the X-box 360 when I do finally get around to doing that. Also, I'm rather picky about what v-Games I will even try playing.

    I'll eventually get around to watching GoT (and maybe even reading the books, because that's something that I also enjoy and can't really do, yet) and better understand these GoT memes and other references.
    Good thing my enjoyment of something is never ruined by Spoilers, which is why I asked.

    Once again, thanks a lot for joining me here!
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-10-07 at 05:09 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Actually, the biggest reason why I haven't seen GoT is mostly because I'm cut off from most forms of TV/Cable
    A lot of people have been using alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    and I while I do have free time on some days, I'm usually working on getting the next game figured out on those days; otherwise I'd be watching the Critical Role podcast on Youtube every day until I caught up again.
    Hahah! Critical Role depresses me. Because they have so much to pull from being officially supported. lol


    Out of curiosity, for when you do your campaign stuff - do you strictly stick to your version of Forgotten Realms? Have you ever done a homebrew world from scratch?
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis View Post
    A lot of people have been using alternative.
    Hahah! Critical Role depresses me. Because they have so much to pull from being officially supported. lol
    It only irritates me when everyone expects every D&D game to look the same as theirs.
    They are a bunch of long term friends, and are all experienced pro actors to boot.
    With the backing of WoTC and the resources of Geek and Sundry to draw upon.

    Out of curiosity, for when you do your campaign stuff - do you strictly stick to your version of Forgotten Realms? Have you ever done a homebrew world from scratch?
    I think that the technical answer is no.
    All of my Worlds start with an established World foundation, and expand from there.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-10-08 at 06:56 PM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    It only irritates me when everyone expects every D&D game to look the same as theirs.
    They are a bunch of long term friends, and are all experienced pro actors to boot.
    And money and resources... So they can have an actual "castle" piece to fight on top of, if need be. Wizards of the Coast knows the show is so beneficial for them, that they will throw money at it.

    It can create the " Matt Mercer Effect ."

    Thankfully the group I DM for had never played D&D before, and had not seen Critical Role or anything like that to have any preconceived expectations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I think that the technical answer is no.
    All of my Worlds start with an established World foundation, and expand from there.
    Interesting. Reason I ask is, you clearly seem quite creative. So I was wondering if you'd ever built a D&D world from the ground up.
    Last edited by Tawmis; 2019-10-08 at 06:48 PM.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis View Post
    And money and resources... So they can have an actual "castle" piece to fight on top of, if need be. Wizards of the Coast knows the show is so beneficial for them, that they will throw money at it.

    It can create the "Matt Mercer Effect."

    Thankfully the group I DM for had never played D&D before, and had not seen Critical Role or anything like that to have any preconceived expectations!
    Yeah, that "effect" is what I was referring to, and complaining about.
    Both you and I got lucky.
    Not sure how many of my Players watch CR, but no one expects Super Detailed World and always funny NPC RP or Ultra Cool Swag at the game.

    Interesting. Reason I ask is, you clearly seem quite creative. So I was wondering if you'd ever built a D&D world from the ground up.
    I'd need someone to be with (in person) to help me stay interested - as well as someone that was good at creating Maps: World, Regions, City, etc. I can fill in details all day, but it's Really Hard for me to start with a blank slate.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-10-08 at 07:07 PM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    RE: Creating worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I'd need someone to be with (in person) to help me stay interested - as well as someone that was good at creating Maps: World, Regions, City, etc. I can fill in details all day, but it's Really Hard for me to start with a blank slate.
    I remember my first "homebrew" world was a variation of Greyhawk that had Norse gods (from Deities & Demigods), because I was a huge Thor comic book fan. This is when I was like 14.
    I have always taken that initial homebrew and changed it over and over and over, through the years; making it my own more and more.
    I borrow from influences; for example, a previous version of my campaign world was heavily influenced by a series of CRPG games I loved called Realms of Arkania which had a heavy influence for how my gods operated.

    There's still influences I see from various things in my own campaign that I can say, "That came from Realms of Arkania, that came from The Hobbit, that came from Greyhawk, that came from Dragonlance..." They're all so covered in my own variations now, that someone else probably wouldn't recognize the influences.

    The one place I am weak at is drawing interior maps. World maps, I can do. Have me draw the inside of a building? Forget it.

    I can populate cities with interest people and leaders, but due to my (real life) dislike of all thing politics, I am horrible at creating interesting political things.

    All of that to say - it'd be cool if you made a homebrew, and just borrowed from influences. Definitely have the talent for it, I think.
    Last edited by Tawmis; 2019-10-09 at 11:46 AM.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    RE: Creating worlds
    I remember my first "homebrew" world was a variation of Greyhawk that had Norse gods (from Deities & Demigods), because I was a huge Thor comic book fan. This is when I was like 14.
    I have always taken that initial homebrew and changed it over and over and over, through the years; making it my own more and more.

    I borrow from influences; for example, a previous version of my campaign world was heavily influenced by a series of CRPG games I loved called Realms of Arkania which had a heavy influence for how my gods operated.

    There's still influences I see from various things in my own campaign that I can say, "That came from Realms of Arkania, that came from The Hobbit, that came from Greyhawk, that came from Dragonlance..." They're all so covered in my own variations now, that someone else probably wouldn't recognize the influences.

    The one place I am weak at is drawing interior maps. World maps, I can do. Have me draw the inside of a building? Forget it.

    I can populate cities with interest people and leaders, but due to my (real life) dislike of all thing politics, I am horrible at creating interesting political things.

    All of that to say - it'd be cool if you made a homebrew, and just borrowed from influences.
    Definitely have the talent for it, I think.
    Thanks for the kind words, Sir!

    Frankly - I normally ignore current RL Politicians (except as a potential stereotypical Hero or Villain NPC)
    To me RL Politicians are a necessary Evil. Getting rid of the ones we have would just be replaced by the Devil we DON'T know.

    I do like to read RL History (Religion and Business just being different Political platforms) and base In Game international, and racial, relations along slightly modified lines.

    I can do In Game Politics - because these are based on In Game expectations and are intended to be something that the Players engage and deal with. Taking down the corrupt Noble and either becoming - or supporting - a (Lesser) House in the hopes of making things better for the people - or the Town/City/Region as a whole.

    Region Maps I can cobble together at least some general ideas as to what I want in the Area, but still prefer just modifying something already existing. Atlas/World Maps stump me.

    Town/City Maps are a little harder, and are usually a modified version of an already existing map to base on.

    Dungeon Maps and Interior maps I can do all day.

    I think that Ancient Realms + New Frontiers has become a huge influence on my Homebrew World. The only thing I need to do for that Old World is finish up the New Deities and somehow come up with Maps for it = Atlas - Regions - Cities/Towns and semi-permanent "Points of Interest".
    Then blend in the changes between the two - and HA!
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Thanks for the kind words, Sir!
    Simply speaking the truth, good sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Region Maps I can cobble together at least some general ideas as to what I want in the Area, but still prefer just modifying something already existing. Atlas/World Maps stump me.
    So... I am not sure if this helps... Maybe not because you're using an existing setting for a foundation...
    But I've used:
    http://www.hexographer.com/

    For example, this is the current continent ("newly discovered") that my campaigns happen in:
    http://tawmis.com/kneurth/wp-content.../IvoryVale.png
    NOTE: It's a pretty large image, file size wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    Dungeon Maps and Interior maps I can do all day.
    There's a couple of fun dungeon map generators I've used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    I think that Ancient Realms + New Frontiers has become a huge influence on my Homebrew World. The only thing I need to do for that Old World is finish up the New Deities and somehow come up with Maps for it = Atlas - Regions - Cities/Towns and semi-permanent "Points of Interest".
    Then blend in the changes between the two - and HA!
    Make it so, Number One! :D
    Last edited by Tawmis; 2019-10-10 at 10:24 PM.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    Make it so, Number One! :D
    If you can help come up with the Name and Backstory for the replacement Deity of Magic, that would be awesome!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis View Post
    A hero (Copper Dragon Wyrmling) is only as good - or interesting - as his villain.

    And the idea of having an actual Green Dragon Wyrmling being involved spawned the entire thing...
    I repeat: Beautiful!
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    So I've never played Birthright... despite my EONS of different RPG games... but I've done Shadowrun quite a few.

    What is the... concept... of Birthright? Like how does it differ than D&D?
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    So I've never played Birthright... despite my EONS of different RPG games... but I've done Shadowrun quite a few.

    What is the... concept... of Birthright? Like how does it differ than D&D?
    The easiest way (now) is to say that Birthright is very like "Game of Thrones" D&D.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    The easiest way (now) is to say that Birthright is very like "Game of Thrones" D&D.
    I should kick myself... In hindsight - the name itself - certainly lends to a very "Game of Thrones" vibe.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tawmis
    I should kick myself... In hindsight - the name itself - certainly lends to a very "Game of Thrones" vibe.
    Naw. Kicking yourself isn't useful.

    Notice the (now) part of my comment.
    Birthright had the Political D&D idea all set up, but it wasn't really popular back in the 1990s.
    If people wanted to do a "Hostile Resource Building" game
    - they Played Risk, Monopoly, or Axis and Allies.

    Back then, D&D Players were either still focused on "Macho" Fantasy Fulfilment and Dungeon-crawls and very Murder-Hobo behavior; Or were doing (usually PbP) what is known as "Soft D&D"
    - which is mostly focused on "Pure" Roleplay and inter-PC interactions, with almost no Combat.

    Game of Thrones is a very recent book/show, that did a good job (until the end) of showing what a political setting would look like. So, now that we have GoT - people would understand how to make Birthright come more to life.
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-11-21 at 03:14 AM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    The Alignment Debate continues

    Spoiler: Discord Alignment Chat
    Show


    For me, Alignment is very hard to explain: being a blending of all the factors: Action, Intent, and Belief.

    Chart: Starting at Zero (Neutral) three points in a Direction on an Axis (Law/Chaos and Good/Evil) indicates a dedication to that view. Combining both Axis gives Alignment.

    Player 2 “freeing a soul through Lulu just to earn Good points doesn't work, unless you actually care about freeing the soul - not what you're getting out of the act.”

    (Me) Well, this is where ‘nitpicking’ comes into play. Freeing the Soul (alone) is a Good Deed, and why can determine Lawful/Chaotic.

    Doing it to keep taint off your Soul, while not as Pure as just doing it because it’s the right thing to do, won’t negate the Good Deed from counting. (Unless your being put on Trial and the Archdevil Lawyer is trying to get a conviction against you on a technicality)

    Player 1 “That's exactly what my (LN) Monk Sun Soul was talking about to (LE) Kenku Undeath Cleric and Lulu. A "good act" doesn't make it good in nature. Same with an "evil" one with Kenku. The reason Monk is ok with the deal with Mad Maggie was three fold: help Lulu, help allies, and bring down the amount of chaos in the land by one lord. Personally, I don't think that should be "evil" just because I helped with a deal to Maggie's benefit.”

    (Me) Take the above for an example. Taking down one Lawful regime causes Chaos - even to replace it with another Lawful regime. But, this Chaos isn’t enough to truly give the Powers of Chaos (mostly Demons and Beings of pure Anarchy) any real benefits.
    I wouldn’t count Monk's agreeing with the Kenku's Deal with Maggie for anything but a temporary shift - more into Chaos then Evil.

    Player 2 “This is coming down to what (DM) says.”

    (Me) Only because I’m the DM, and I have to make the final call.
    However, I prefer input and feedback from the Players.
    This discussion is really helping me to better understand how to show Players how Alignment is determined and how it can change in game. Doing this not only helps with our game, it’s going to affect all my games.

    Player 2 “Personally if you're okay with working with Maggie to remove others from power it goes back to the Sin chart you are directly aiding an agent/force of Chaos/Evil.”

    (Me) Again, only being on Trial is a real concern, there.

    Player 2 “You could say agreeing would have cost you 1 evil point, no good points for killing the 3 warlords Maggi told us about since it's for someone evil but overall benefit you and the group in terms of exp and money for that one evil deed was worth it.”

    (Me) I’d say that this is a case-by-case kind of thing.

    Maggie’s Deal = temporary shift.
    Repeatedly doing that can make it permanent.

    Taking down the various Warlords of Hell, to reduce the number that are causing “Chaos”?

    The PC can believe this, but should at some point realize that the nature of Hell causes this to always be the case.

    (To all) As I tried to point out with Lulu - there is no such thing as Perfect Alignments in my games.
    Even the Deities, including the various “Law” and “Justice” Deities, are bound by these Cosmic Laws. (For example: it prevents Zues from making the Laws for others, but ignoring them for himself)

    Player 1 “I could accept that, and in turn, help the divine (Zariel) get back on track to how she should be instead of twisted and Fallen.”

    (Me) I am very glad that we are hashing this out LONG before the actual encounter with Zariel!!

    Zariel does understand the ramifications of Alignment. But, the argument to convince Zariel that her Belief that “Destroying all Demons is the Greater Good” is in the Wrong - is not going to be easy. (And fighting Zariel at anything less than a 15th level Party is a VERY BAD IDEA)

    Player 1
    Lawful Neutral

    A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.
    Lawful neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.
    Lawful neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it seeks to eliminate all freedom, choice, and diversity in society.
    Those of this alignment view regulation as all-important, taking a middle ground betwixt evil and good. This is because the ultimate harmony of the world--and the whole universe--is considered by lawful neutral creatures to have its sole hope rest upon law and order. Evil or good are immaterial beside the determined purpose of bringing all to predictability and regulation. It is the view of this alignment that law and order give purpose and meaning to everything. Without regimentation and strict definition, there would be no purpose in the cosmos. Therefore, whether a law is good or evil is of no import as long as it brings order and meaning. (1)

    (1) Gygax, Gary. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide. TSR:1979. and Gygax, Gary.Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook. TSR:1978.

    Lawful neutral beings believe in a strong, well-ordered government, whether that government is a tyranny or benevolent democracy. The benefits of organization and regimentation outweigh any moral questions raised by their actions. Lawful neutral beings will uphold the law regardless of whether it is considered just or not. If the majority of the population disagrees with the practices of the government, then they must use legal means of getting those laws changed. Rebellion is a crime regardless of the purpose behind revolt. In their day-to-day affairs, lawful neutrals will adhere to the laws of the area they are in, and will also maintain their own sense of honor. (2)

    They are respectful to both their leaders and their peers. Subordinates will be treated as is due their station within society. Written contracts and verbal agreements will be honored by these characters. They will not break their word or a contract unless there is a legal way to do so. Lawful neutral beings are concerned with the letter of the law, but rarely the spirit. These characters also respect the idea of station in life. They will act as they should, given their station.
    The lawful neutral being normally sees law and order as of prime importance, with the well-being of the group put ahead of the individual on almost every occasion. Such persons see good and evil as immaterial and unimportant in the structuring of the universe into perfect order and harmony, in which lies society's only hope for survival. Whether a law is good or evil is of no import as long as it brings order and meaning. Thus, personal gratification of needs and desires is well and fine, as long as this doesn't interfere with the ultimate ordering of the cosmos; all other considerations are secondary. Life, to the lawful neutral being, has no meaning without order, and is thus expendable when faced with the choice between it and harmony. (3)

    (3) Renaud, J.R. "Making law out of chaos." Dragon (#163). November 1990: 74-78.

    A lawful neutral character will keep his word if he gives it and will never lie. He may attack an unarmed foe if he feels it necessary. He will never harm an innocent. He may use torture to extract information, but never for pleasure. He will never kill for pleasure, only in self-defense or in the defense of others. A lawful neutral character may use poison as long as poison use is not illegal. He will help those in need only to advance the social order. He prefers to work with others. He responds well to higher authority, is trustful of organizations, and will always follow the law. He will never betray a family member, comrade, or friend. Lawful neutral characters respect the concepts of self-discipline and honor. (4)

    (4) Parlagreco, Carl. "Another View of the Nine-Point Alignment Scheme." The Dragon (#26). June 1979: 23.

    Here are some possible adjectives describing lawful neutral characters: reliable, responsible, truthful, orderly, loyal, respectful of authority, regular, structured, rigid, neat, methodical, and precise.
    Well known lawful neutral characters from film or literature include: Judge Dredd (Comics), Sergeant Friday (Dragnet television show), Percy Weasley (Harry Potter), and Cornelius Fudge (Harry Potter).
    Equivalent alignment in other game systems: Road of Chivalry (Vampire), Law (Warhammer), Just and Honorable (Alternity).

    The Ten Lawful Neutral Commandments

    A list of Ten Commandments for a lawful neutral religion may look like this:
    1. You shall not lie.
    2. You shall not kill the innocent.
    3. You shall not murder.
    4. You shall help the needy if such action advances law and order.
    5. You shall honor legitimate authority.
    6. You shall follow the law.
    7. You shall not betray others.
    8. You shall not aid criminals.
    9. You shall honor all oaths.
    10. You shall promote unlimited order in society.

    Ten Lawful Neutral Sins

    Likewise, a lawful neutral religion may list the following as sins. This list is given in the order of least severe infraction to most severe.
    1. Failing to alert the authorities of a crime.
    2. Treating a peer with disrespect.
    3. Placing personal desire above adherence to the law.
    4. Breaking your word to your peer or ally.
    5. Failing to assist allies in need.
    6. Breaking a major law.
    7. Failing to assist your superior when in need.
    8. Treating a superior with disrespect.
    9. Breaking your word to your superior.
    10. Breaking a sacred oath or written contract. Aiding the forces of Chaos and Disorder.

    Lawful Neutral and Other Alignments

    Lawful Neutral vs. Lawful Good

    Conflict between lawful neutral and lawful good characters will center around the nature of laws. Lawful good characters want laws to protect the weak and punish the wicked, while lawful neutral characters are only interested in maintaining or expanding laws to cover every foreseeable problem within society without compassion or moral judgment. Lawful neutral characters will apply laws in a rigid manner, not worrying about whether the spirit of the law is upheld. It is the letter that is important to them. The language of the social compact and the wording of laws are all they are interested in, since that is all that is apparent from written documents. A lawful good character will be just as offended by a lawful neutral character's preference of letter over spirit as they are contemptuous of the neutral good character's insistence that the spirit is more important. The lawful good character will question the utility of laws that do not take into account all circumstances to provide a just and equitable settlement that coincides with their moral beliefs. The lawful neutral character does not consider morality when applying laws, only the effectiveness of the law to keep society stable.

    Lawful Neutral vs. Lawful Evil

    Lawful evil and lawful neutral characters will have conflicts over the nature of laws. Lawful evil characters will support laws that further their own cause, normally meaning the gaining of wealth and power. They will want laws which ensure that their regime gets the upper hand in society. Any laws that oppress the weak will not concern them, unless they receive no benefits from this oppression. A lawful neutral character will resent a lawful evil character's attempt to control laws to benefit their own group. Lawful neutral characters want all laws to apply equally to everyone, for good or ill. They will also have contempt for the way that lawful evil characters use laws to injure or harass their enemies. To lawful neutral characters, laws exist to provide order and stability for society. To lawful evil characters, laws exist to elevate the strong and cunning to positions of power over others.

    Neutral

    Lawful neutral and true neutral characters are similar in their morality. Both of these types will tend to return the treatment they receive from others. They differ in their outlook concerning legitimate authority and the structure of society. True neutral characters believe that laws should be followed as long as the law benefits themselves. They will also follow laws out of fear of punishment. If they can break a law which does not support their self-interest, and there is a good chance that they will not be caught breaking the law, true neutral characters may break laws. However, true neutral characters prefer to follow the law, because usually it is in their best interest to follow laws. Lawful neutral characters follow laws not only for their own self-interest, but also because they believe that one should always follow the law, even laws that run counter to self-interest. The lawful neutral character takes issue with the true neutral because the true neutral character will readily admit that he mostly benefits from the law, but he will not go out of his way to support the law. True neutral characters feel that lawful neutral characters are too obsessed with established laws and customs to realize that they may be better able to support their own interests by advancing personal freedom as well as law and order.

    Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good, and Lawful Evil

    When operating as leaders within society, this is how characters of these three alignments may behave. The lawful neutral character will advance the aims of society and apply the law impartially to all citizens. He will follow laws and fight to ensure that all citizens follow laws. He will use legitimate means to change to social order if the state would benefit more from the change. He will promote fairness, using the law to reward those who act in accordance with the social order and punish those who act to the detriment of the state. He will tolerate corruption as long as the strength of the state is not jeopardized. The lawful neutral character will enjoy his position and its perks, but will not abuse his authority. The lawful good character will view his position as an opportunity to selflessly serve his fellow citizens. He will work to increase weal throughout society through the apparatus of the state. He will tirelessly fight corruption and work to eliminate social ills such as poverty, uneven wealth distribution, abuse by the state, and other problems. The lawful evil character will use his position of power over others to ruthlessly pursue his own agenda using the apparatus of the state. He will follow laws and encourage all citizens to follow laws by severely punishing criminals. He will increase his own wealth and power at the expense of the population as long as he can use legal means. The lawful evil character views his position as proof of his superiority over the common rabble.

    How Lawful Neutral Views the Other Alignments

    Lawfuls tend to view actions on a scale ranging from honorable to dishonorable. They hold themselves honorable while chaotics are seen as dishonorable in their eyes. Lawfuls view ethical neutrals as unreliable as they are concerned with doing the right thing some of the time, whereas other times they seem to disregard society's expectations.

    Characters who are morally neutral tend to see themselves as realistic. So-called "good" is actually an idealistic and naive philosophy in their eyes. Moral neutrals also eschew what they see as the radical egoism of darker, "evil" philosophies.

    The Philosophy of Lawful Neutral

    Lawful neutral is the philosophy that law and order are desirable ends in and of themselves. It is a philosophy of pure equitistic collectivism. This philosophy holds that the best way for all beings to pursue a rational self-interest is within the framework of a strong social order. By putting the needs of the state or social order ahead of individual desires, each being can advance the self-interest of the collective as a whole. Lawful neutral can also be associated with ethical equitism and natural law philosophies. As the philosophical "average" of altruism and egoism, equitism holds that harm to others should be minimized when advancing the self and that harm to the self should be minimized when advancing others.
    Lawful neutral philosophers generally maintain that there is metaphysical order in the multiverse and thus may support doctrines of hard determinism, predeterminism, fatalism, predestination, and/or necessitarianism. They may believe in fate or destiny. They tend to be moral objectivists, holding that values exist in the external world independently of and external to our comprehension of them; that they can be found and known; and that they must be used as principles for human judgments and conduct.
    The ideal government for this alignment is an authoritarian state with codified laws supporting a social order. Whether the social order supports altruistic actions or egoistic actions is of no concern to the followers of this alignment. Lawful neutral beings want the power of the state to be used to maintain the social order. Any form of justice that maintains the social order is desirable.

    another generalized interpretation is this

    Lawful neutral

    A lawful neutral character typically believes strongly in lawful concepts such as honor, order, rules, and traditions, but often follows a personal code in addition to, or even in preference to, one set down by a benevolent authority.[9] Examples of lawful neutral characters include a soldier who always follows orders, a judge or enforcer who adheres mercilessly to the letter of the law, and a disciplined monk

    Player 1
    "I'm just feeling a bit snubbed that based on how you two are explaining it, Lawful neutral isn't how it's supposed to be. From what I gather, it is simply defined by having equal evil actions with equal good actions. like, I HAVE to do evil deeds as well as good deeds in order to be considered neutral. Or do nothing at all. That way, yes, I will in fact be burning bridges with people since I have to force my character to choose a side.

    with the system as you guys explain it, Al will be considered Lawful Evil simply by Association and not actively trying to do good deeds. Otherwise, I have to change my character to forcibly going against Kaw simply because Al wants to legitimise business and try to root out corrupt organizations."

    (Me) Part of the trouble might be that there is a difference between a PC's Alignment and what others (NPCs) believe.

    Take the interactions with both the Duergar and the Stone Giants.

    The Duergar, are usually Evil.
    The majority being Lawful.
    And individuals being Neutral.

    But, the Gate Guard that hired the Party to convince the Giants to move away, thought Monk (and the group, by proxy) were quite fine to deal with. "Business as usual" for him.

    Now, the Stone Giants most likely view the entire Party as being Evil, and not caring enough to define if they were Lawful or Chaotic in holding (and threatening) their children as bargaining chips to blackmail them into cooperation in moving.

    Now, to me, neither of these actions would have changed Monk's actual Alignment.

    "Honorable business" (even with the Duergar) is part of (LN) Monks goal.

    And the threat to the Giant Kids was a bluff, if a bit overdone by pouring actual oil on them.

    (Me) I hated the "do one of each to stay balanced" Rule.

    Keeping track is a royal pain in the arse!!

    To me, Neutral is the hardest of all the Alignments to really maintain. Being indifferent can be Neutral (G/E) and truly uncaring can be NE.

    Player 1: I don't particularly like how if I save a bystander, I have to kick someone's animals because it's fun, in order to be analyzed as neutral

    (Me) Right, it's stupid.

    "Here kid, have a lollipop" and then kick their puppy!!

    I also don't want to do the "semi-christian" requirements for what is Good, where everything else is Evil by default

    The Old Druids were required to do that "Balance Good with Evil" crap. I got fed up with it.

    But then, Druids were another thing that I had split between Good and Evil.
    *
    Player 1: what I liked about Lawful Neutral was that it by definition leaves "wiggle room" while at the same time, making it very strict as that character must answer for their deviations.

    like, the pirate's of the Caribbean example, Captain Teague (Jack's Dad) was the keeper of the code, and any pirate that disobeyed the code in front of him got Merked (mercilessly killed).

    sure a lot didn't follow the code, (with consistent deviation should change Alignment) but when caught, were judged.

    Player 2: See I don't see the code keeper being Lawful Neutral, that comes across as Neutral Evil, they are enforcing rules not laws. Now if they only enforced the rules in their designated base, that's different.

    Player 1: I'd agree it's not Lawful neutral, but I'd argue hard that it would be Lawful Evil, not neutral evil

    Player 2: For Lawful Evil I'd expect there to be some understanding with the ruling government like that of a Thieves Guild, where it's allowed by the government even though it operates in less than lawful ways. If they were a separate group all together that the government had a bounty on then Neutral Evil. The idea being there's a set of rules or laws set that everyone is expected to abide by.

    Player 1: hmm, I see what you're saying. I'd have to agree on that.

    (Me)
    Like the LE "sanctioned" Thieves Guild: Where the Members only work in one area, or can't target certain groups (or can only target specific groups) but are cruel in their methods, exploit the locals, and might need to be convinced to not kill.

    Where the NE Thieves Guild Members are Spies and Smugglers.

    Where the CE Thieves Guild Members are terrorists.

    Where the NG Thieves Guild Members are like Robin Hood's Merry Men. Can also be the people that gets food, medicine, and other needed supplies into Forbidden Zones.

    Where the CG Thieves Guild Members can seem like the more violent and random version of NG, but their goal is taking out the biggest current threat, not always the closest or easiest target.
    A Faction that does what the Underground Railroad IRL did - can also fit here.

    Where the LG Thieves Guild Members, can be very like the "Heroes" of Assassin's Creed
    Or are sanctioned by a Church.
    (Yeah, I haven't done all of Assassin's Creed. Sorry if this is a bad example.

    I only knew that the starting PCs were (at least trying) to be LG.
    It's not really their fault the Organization went to ****)

    Each Class (and maybe also Backgrounds) can have their own specific "version" of the different Alignments, but shouldn't be needed.

    To player 1 -
    The thing with (actual) Pirates is, they are all Evil.

    Barbosa was (mostly) LE.

    Jack Sparrow was (mostly) NE, but should have been CE, just less motivated by violence.

    Now, just being on the side of the "Empire" didn't make all of them Good.

    Lieutenant Commander Theodore Groves was very LE.

    The Governor tried to be LG.

    Elizabeth tended to be NG (but wanting to be an Adventurer)

    Will Turner...... IMO tended to be CG, if a bit unmotivated until the arrival and attack of the Black Pearl.


    Jump on in, the players involved are curious about your thoughts.

    My Random Queries
    What sets Lawful Good apart - other then being the Nicest Goody Two Shoes?

    What about Lawful Evil - besides being the Meanest Tyrant this side of Andromeda?

    Can Chaotic Evil be anything beyond a Destructive Anarchist?

    Are Chaotic Good nonviolent rebels?

    Are Neutral Good forever seen as merely Hippies?

    Are Neutral Evil just lazy opportunists, but very cruel when they strike?
    Last edited by Great Dragon; 2019-11-06 at 12:21 PM.
    My Knowledge, Understanding, and Opinion on things can be changed
    No offense is intended by anything I post.
    *Limited Playtest Group - I'm mostly Stuck in the White Room.
    *I am learning valuable things, here. So thanks, everyone!

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tawmis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location

    Default Re: Ancient Realms

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dragon View Post
    The Alignment Debate continues
    What sets Lawful Good apart - other then being the Nicest Goody Two Shoes?
    It's interesting - because to me, Lawful Good is someone who "obeys the laws."
    So for example, Lawful Good doesn't j-walk, doesn't steal, beat up people for no good reason.
    However, Lawful Good, by definition can still be an ********.
    You can still follow all the laws and be a complete arse-hat to people.
    Need a character background written up? I'd be happy to write one up for you! Now with over 150 character backgrounds written! How can you help me? Not required, but appreciated, if you're so inclined! <3

    Check out my 5e Module The Secret of Havenfall Manor over at DMsGuild.com! (If you check it out - please rate, comment, and tell others!)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •