New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 68
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Udine, Italy
    Gender
    Male

    Default What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Ok, my question is not entirely linked to the D&D setting and ruleset but also about the "meaning" of the word and the context behind it.

    A little bit of context on why I'm making such a question. I'm not english native speaker even though I manage to read it and understand it fairly well. I bought all 5e manuals in english, but a few years back WotC decided to translate some of the books in in italian. I decided not to buy them again and just stick with the english ones.

    The other day I took a glimpse on the italian version of the Player's Handbook from a friend and it struck me that the name of the Warlock class was left as it was, while others like Wizard and Sorcerer were translated as Mago and Stregone.
    I talked about it with some friends and we agreed that probably in english Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock are all words to describe magic wielders whith some differences, while in italian we have just two (and usually Wizard/Mago is used to intend good mages, and Sorcerer/Stregone to intend evil doers).

    So, there is my question: english speakers, what is the difference in meaning between Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock? Where do these different words come from?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lord Raziere's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Wizard: guy who uses magic because they read books

    Sorcerer: guy who uses magic because they're born with it.

    Warlock: guy who uses magic because the made a deal with a spirit.

    there is no moral implications to any of this and all three can be of any alignment. those are the DnD definitions of those three classes.

    where they come from is a completely different discussion altogether and these classes likely only has superficial if any resemblance to their historical/folkloric/mythological depictions of them, like everything else in DnD.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    oxybe's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Sorcerer took out a small million mana loan from his daddy and built his empire with it.

    A warlock gets their magic from a supernatural sugar daddy that may or may not be cthulu/the devil/a leprechaun.

    A Wizard spent 7 years in university and 4 years apprenticing before he was allowed to even touch a vial.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Warlock seems to have a meaning of "traitor, scoundrel and monster".

    Wizard is analogus to philosopher and sage.

    Sorcerer doesn't seem to have any specific meaning, but is unique in that it comes from old french instead of older english.

    Otherwise, these terms are used interchangably, including many other words, such as illusionist, magician, necromancer, evoker, enchanter etc.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    The French translation also feels unsatisfying, at least to me.

    Sorcerer Ensorceleur
    Warlock Sorcier
    Wizard Magicien
    "Ensorceleur" just sounds like a fancier or more seductive way of saying "sorcier". Also, "sorcerer" and "sorcier" would have been closer spelling-wise. This has led to some confusion at our table.

    I am also unhappy with "magicien". It makes me think of a stage illusionist. "Mage" would be much better.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    This mortal coil.

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Here in the sunny UK the terms Wizard and Sorcerer generally mean the same thing - someone with supernatural abilities, etc. Warlock on the other hand has a definite derogatory bent to it, meaning someone who cannot be trusted. It then came to mean witch when it was fashionable to justify various atrocities by calling your victim a witch.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    May 2018

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aergentum View Post
    Where do these different words come from?
    Wizard come from "wise" and "hard", so that's someone which is very wise.

    Sorcerer come from the french "Sorcier", which come from the latin "sortis" which describe the answer of an oracle (same etymology than sorting, by the way). Note the french "Sorcier" used to refer to someone who made a pact with the Devil. It would often translate to "Witch" in English.

    Warlock come from middle English, and mostly mean "traitor/deceiver". "War-" meaning here "pact/truce/..." and "-lock" meaning "liar". It was given the meaning of magic-user because obviously every evil person has magic powers coming from the devil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    The French translation also feels unsatisfying, at least to me.
    While I agree, I'd like to point out that Sorcier and Ensorceleur do have a slight difference of meaning:

    A "Magicien" use "magie", a "Sorcier" use "sorts", and an "Ensorceleur" use "sortilèges".
    This lead to different connotations, even in French:
    "Magie" is connoted positively, it is something extraordinary; "Sort" is connoted negatively, it's almost as bad as a curse; while "Sortilège" is connoted toward mental manipulation / seduction (which goes reasonably well with a Cha-based class)

    As of alternative choice that could have been made, WoW translates Warlock into "Démoniste", which is a good translation, but unfortunately inadequate to D&D as patrons and demons are totally different things. I also like "Cultiste", "Adorateur" or "Serviteur" as translations, but they feel more restrictive than Warlock.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    As I understand the etymology, warlock is the only one of the three with a distinct meaning. The other two are part of a large collection of words basically meaning "person with supernatural powers" (usually thought of as being connected to spirits of some type, as D&D-style arcane magic is a much later invention)

    Warlock comes from the Old English, meaning "traitor, monster, scoundrel, or (the) Devil." Had connotations of "breaking an oath/betraying trust". Later got transferred to "someone who made a pact with the Devil". So in that sense, the classic D&D warlock (sold his soul for power) is true to the meaning.

    According to the OED, sorcerer and wizard are synonyms (the first from the Old French, the second from the Old English).

    This brings up a good point about language. We in 21st century western culture love to categorize and name variations on things. Look at medieval weapons--there are huge fights about the proper nomenclature of small variations. Back in the day, however, those would likely all be called "sword." Or "Poleaxe/halberd/etc." The romans really didn't have a separate term for the various types of armor they wore. Same with "magic users". Most of the specialized names are very much anachronisms. But that's OK--D&D isn't really a medieval simulator. It's intentionally a mishmash of time-periods (including ones that never were), themes, pop-culture understandings of words, etc. It is not historical fiction, nor does it try to be.
    Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
    Rogue Equivalent Damage calculator, now prettier and more configurable!
    5e Monster Data Sheet--vital statistics for all 693 MM, Volo's, and now MToF monsters: Updated!
    NIH system 5e fork, very much WIP. Base github repo.
    NIH System PDF Up to date main-branch build version.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Millstone85's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoiMagnus View Post
    I also like "Cultiste", "Adorateur" or "Serviteur" as translations, but they feel more restrictive than Warlock.
    How about "Occultiste"? Someone who delves into hidden knowledge.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gkathellar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Beyond the Ninth Wave
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    As I understand the etymology, warlock is the only one of the three with a distinct meaning. The other two are part of a large collection of words basically meaning "person with supernatural powers" (usually thought of as being connected to spirits of some type, as D&D-style arcane magic is a much later invention)
    I'd quibble that wizard meant, for a long time, something more akin to "wise man," or "person with wisdom." It still gets used that way to some degree when we say things like, "they're a wizard at computers" or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    I'd quibble that wizard meant, for a long time, something more akin to "wise man," or "person with wisdom." It still gets used that way to some degree when we say things like, "they're a wizard at computers" or whatever.
    That's not the etymology that's accepted widely. It has that as a secondary, later meaning, derived from the "can do things others can't". I'd say that being a "Unix Wizard" came from the "cast magic spells to get this arcane machine to behave" meaning, not the "wise man" meaning.

    Now on the other hand, mage (ie Magi in plural) did have some of those connotations directly (hence the tale of the Three Magi/Wise Men from Christian legend).
    Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
    Rogue Equivalent Damage calculator, now prettier and more configurable!
    5e Monster Data Sheet--vital statistics for all 693 MM, Volo's, and now MToF monsters: Updated!
    NIH system 5e fork, very much WIP. Base github repo.
    NIH System PDF Up to date main-branch build version.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Faily's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Warlock
    "A man practicing the black arts"

    Its roots lie in Middle English warloghe, which comes from Old English wǣrloga, meaning "one that breaks the faith". Wǣr is faith, and loga comes from lēogan which is to lie.

    So a warlock implies that they're someone who deals with lies and "dark spirits", they've broken with the faith (thus they're heretics). Overall, a rather not-nice person from the view of society.

    ---

    For Sorcerer we need to look to Sorcery to find the meaning.
    Sorcery
    "The use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining"

    A Sorcerer is one who practices Sorcery, meaning someone who has power from the assistance and/or control of evil spirits.

    The origins here come from Middle English sorcerie, with roots to Anglo-French and Medieval Latin. From Medieval Latin we have sortarius (from sort; chance, lot). Now I don't really know Medieval Latin, but from what I can understand, Sort+arius would be something like "someone connected to chance".

    So similarly to a Warlock, a Sorcerer implies someone dealing with "bad stuff", in this case evil spirits. I would guess *maybe* the reason for choosing Sorcerer as the name for the spontaneous casting class was because of the more "chance"-aspect of how a sorcerer gets their power in the D&D-fluff.


    ---

    Wizard
    "A wise man"

    A wizard is a wise man, a sage, one who has magical influence or power.

    The etymology of Wizard, compared to the two above, is easier. It comes from the Middle English wysard, from wis/wys that means wise. So meaning something like "someone who is wise" or "wiseman".

    Wizard is synonymous with Sorcerer, but not with Warlock, which is interesting. Wizard being the "power through long study" works well with its roots in the word "wise" as it's implied that someone who has gained a lot of knowledge is a wise person (but not nescessarily someone with a high Wisdom score ).
    RHoD: Soah | SC: Green Sparrow | WotBS: Sheliya |RoW: Raani | SA: Ariste | IG: Hemali | RoA: Abelia | WftC: Elize | Zeitgeist: Rutile
    Mystara: Othariel | Vette | Scarlet

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    May 2018

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    How about "Occultiste"? Someone who delves into hidden knowledge.
    I like it! Though it would work better if it was an Int-based spellcaster. (Similar to the 3.X Witch)
    Last edited by MoiMagnus; 2019-07-08 at 09:01 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    Wizard
    "A wise man"

    A wizard is a wise man, a sage, one who has magical influence or power.

    The etymology of Wizard, compared to the two above, is easier. It comes from the Middle English wysard, from wis/wys that means wise. So meaning something like "someone who is wise" or "wiseman".
    It also seems to match the construction of drunkard and dullard, which makes it someone more knowledgable than would be good.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    It also seems to match the construction of drunkard and dullard, which makes it someone more knowledgable than would be good.
    I liked Terry Pratchett's take on it in Soul Music:

    Wizards were rumored to be wise - in fact, that’s where the word came from.*


    *From the Old wys-ars, lit.: one who, at bottom, is very smart.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kitten Champion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    You could use the words interchangeably, as they appear in the thesaurus entries I've seen.

    I'd say it's more a matter of contemporary connotation that differentiates them in present communication, which is certainly relevant to what feels right linguistically. You could use one for the other, but it's not surprising for instance to see warlock be saved as a term for a dark sorcerer class in an MMO. Even ignoring D&D culture and its interrelationship with modern video gaming, it does sound more aggressive with the hard k sound at the end.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    It also seems to match the construction of drunkard and dullard, which makes it someone more knowledgable than would be good.
    Only if you think that the -ard suffix means something else than "someone who is X'.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2014

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by BWR View Post
    Only if you think that the -ard suffix means something else than "someone who is X'.
    I've read a collection of wizard-centric short stories that discussed that suffix in the introduction, pointing out that it tends to show up with the common meaning of being a pejorative way of describing a person by reference to one trait that they have in excess (dullard, drunkard, *****rd, bastard).

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Like most English words, they can have several meanings, depending on context. The Oxford English Dictionary has 4 definitions and sub-definitions for wizard, and 8-10 for warlock.

    For D&D, accept them as gaming jargon, and they have the exact meanings given them by the rules.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Completely removing the D&D context, they more or less all mean the same thing in laymen's terms. Warlock/Witch has a more negative connotation, usually more associated with evil or dark arts, while wizard and sorcerer are more neutral terms. But in English, they all three are completely interchangeable. In fact, back before 3E, wizard, mage and sorcerer all meant the same thing in D&D, too.
    Last edited by JadedDM; 2019-07-09 at 04:44 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Yeah, stripping away context:

    Warlock is an inherently negative term.
    Wizard is a neutral term, like mage.
    Sorcerer, when differentiated from the previous, is just a very powerful magic user.
    Used to be DMofDarkness
    Old avatar by Elagune.
    Spoiler: Collection of Signature Quotes
    Show

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aergentum View Post
    Ok, my question is not entirely linked to the D&D setting and ruleset but also about the "meaning" of the word and the context behind it.

    The other day I took a glimpse on the italian version of the Player's Handbook from a friend and it struck me that the name of the Warlock class was left as it was, while others like Wizard and Sorcerer were translated as Mago and Stregone.
    I talked about it with some friends and we agreed that probably in english Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock are all words to describe magic wielders whith some differences, while in italian we have just two (and usually Wizard/Mago is used to intend good mages, and Sorcerer/Stregone to intend evil doers).
    The English words wizard and sorcerer don't have those connotations. (wizard-good, sorcerer-evil). Wizard, Sorcerer are synonyms, pretty much interchangeable with mage, magician, witch/warlock, soothsayer; less commonly necromancer, conjurer, illusionist, enchanter. Warlock is specifically the male form of "witch", but before D&D classes I don't think anyone drew distinctions between witchcraft, sorcery, wizardry, alchemy, etc. I'd say the only recognized distinction was gender--a female magic-user was a witch, a male magic-user was a warlock.

    I want to say that "warlock" has a stronger connotation of being in league with the devil, but I can't seem to find much support in quick googling, so that may be just something I picked up along the way, not something commonly understood.

    JK Rowling's Harry Potter series is a decent guide here. "Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry"--there is no difference in techniques or powers or anything between the witches and wizards. In fact, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" on one side of the Atlantic was released as "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" on the other. Sorcery, wizardry, alchemy, fortune-telling, astrology, numerology, witchcraft, consorting with demons all shade into one another with no hard and fast distinctions.

    In the early days of D&D (1st edition, Basic) each class level had a title attached. "Magic-Users" progressed from "Prestigiditator, Evoker, Conjurer, Theurgist, Thaumaturgist, Magician, Enchanter, Warlock, Sorcerer, Necromancer, Wizard"

    Isaac Newton, at the same time he was laying out the laws of gravity, was furiously trying to deduce the formula to turn lead into gold. And I just learned that John Napier, the discoverer of logarithms and author of a treatise based on the Book of Revelation arguing that the current Pope was the Antichrist , was widely believed in his town to be a devil-worshipper, with a black rooster as his familiar.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Napier

    So, there is my question: english speakers, what is the difference in meaning between Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock? Where do these different words come from?
    Where do the words come from? As usual in English etymology, an overlay of Norman-French romance language terms over Anglo-Saxon Germanic terms, with a strong sprinkling of Celtic terms, Norse-Germanic and then wholesale importation of loanwords from classical languages.

    If you want to explore on your own:
    https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/wizard

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mordar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Separate from the game setting, I'd say the three have distinct connotations (which are, of course, influenced by age, region and social circle) that kind of match the following:

    Warlock: Male witch (of the bad, eating children and trafficking with the Devil connotation)
    Sorcerer: Someone who uses magic spells for generally, but not exclusively, nefarious ends (Sorcerer's Apprentice Mickey being more the exception than the rule)
    Wizard: Wise old <man> who can so some things that defy reason that help people/opposite of Sorcerer.

    Then along came D&D/AD&D and a handful of movies that added to the general public's knowledge and probably changed those a bit...but I think if we were to poll the masses of 50+ Americans that'd probably show close enough to at least popular connotations.

    - M
    No matter where you go...there you are!

    Holhokki Tapio - GitP Blood Bowl New Era Season I Champion
    Togashi Ishi - Betrayal at the White Temple
    Da Monsters of Da Midden - GitP Blood Bowl Manager Cup Season V-VI-VII

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Banned
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Cleveland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    I came here to say the things that are being said, but I was going to say them better. I was going to use the best words. The biggest words. Words that you don't even know. But now... Now I'm not going to say them. Do you know why? Because they've already been said.



    Ok, fine.

    In pulp fiction, the sorcerer was often an evil caster who dealt with demons, the undead, or the devil himself.
    Wizards tend towards the scholarly.
    Warlocks are male witches.

    That's about it.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    The funny thing is much of this perception comes from recent era work. When you look at truly ancient works, the sorcerer was the good guy because he studied at a college of peers while the wizard was a looked down upon wild magic naturally gifted character who figured it out all on his own. Sorcerer was a PROFESSION in an explicit study of the wondrous arts that rulers didn't understand (modern term is scientist) while wizards were the genius kid who came up with clever parlor tricks that shocked everyone who was too dumb to understand. This is why we use the term wizard in association with people who are naturally talented in an area or pick it up quickly.

    No clue when those switched but fantasy writers have used both interchangeably. There are plenty of evil wizards living by themselves in a tower running experiments while noble sorcerers run academies as headmaster. Getting expelled would make you a wizard which is a derogatory term in that sense. But then just as many evil sorcerers harnessing stolen power and good wizards studying under council of peers have existed as well. Warlocks universally remain evil purely because they are again a real world term for users of the demonic arts, the male equivalent to witches.

    Somewhere along the lines though comic books decided that Warlocks don't have to be evil because there are characters that use their gifts for good and one in particular controls his demon from within. That trend continued in fiction and now we have stories about Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks of every alignment while D&D has decided they have specific power sources. It's purely a D&D invention as there has never been a universal agreement on these terms anymore than there has been on the names of political parties, which also switched platforms a few hundred years ago. Since words in English can't seem to stay consistent when they are labels referring to other people (see the old medical term for down syndrome) we get many variations on those words over time and confusion sets in. The longer the word has been around and the more authors have had their go at it, the more twisted the definition becomes until there's only a vague sense of the original meaning.
    Trolls will be blocked. Petrification works far better than fire and acid.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lord Raziere's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    ah, yes nothing ruins anything like the human ability to overapply things until they lose all meaning. the terms are so meaningless and interchangeable that I can say what you claim Kyutaru seems plausible, even though this is the first I ever heard of such a thing.

    speaking of things that have no good definition, I tried looking up sorcerer on wikipedia and got the history of magic in general. apparently the intellectual community can't agree on a definition for magic or religion. fitting how two concepts based around dealing with the undefinable can't really be put into solid categories. so these three terms having no real solid definition is just an outgrowth of that when you think about it.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  27. - Top - End - #27
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    The German translations had it worse, really. Because unlike English, which has both Germanic (Wizard, Warlock) and Romance (Sorcerer) vocabulary to draw from, modern German just doesn't have that many words for "person who uses magic". So they went with "Zauberer" for Wizard, "male person with magical abilities", which apparently goes back to Germanic Taubra and never ment anything else. Except it also means "stage magician". And then they ran out of good words for "Sorcerer", so they went with "Hexenmeister". Which literally translates as "Master of Witches", which historically has three or four meanings: a male witch; the male leader of a coven of witches; the devil, who of course is master of all witches; and a witch hunter, witch finder or executioner of witches. Not ideal, really.
    And then they really, really ran into the problem with the warlock, because they were now totally out of words for people who use magic. So they went with "Hexer". Which just means male witch, but also has the problem of being really, really close to Hexenmeister.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2019-07-09 at 04:40 AM.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbragg View Post
    I'd say the only recognized distinction was gender--a female magic-user was a witch, a male magic-user was a warlock.
    That's a very narrow distinction, used only in a very small area until the modern era. For most of history, the term for a male witch was "witch".

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Udine, Italy
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Well this turned out to be quite in interesting topic. I did not expect so many answers and some pretty specific too.

    Some of you pointed out that english has many words that can be used to describe the "magic user guys", but if you speak about a Necromancer (for example) I think of a different type of magic user instead of an Illusionist.
    I agree with some of you that explained that in "modern language" we have some different words due to modern literature, videogames and so on, and that's probably why we have words like Necromancer and Illusionist to begin with.

    I see that the italian translation is not the only one with issues. At least the french and the german one tried to translate Warlock with something in their own language (not with some issues).
    The fact is that Warlock has no meaning in italian, and while you can possibily link it to a some kind of magic user, it's still difficoult to understand what kind of magic it would be. I still think that Stregone (Sorceror) would have been a better choice since comes from the same root as Witch (Strega), and it was used to describe male witches (in some TV series, for example The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina they use Warlock to describe the male magic users, and the italian transalator used Stregone (Sorcerer) since Strega/Stregone comes from the same root).

    Oh well, I think that settles it.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What's the difference between Warlock, Sorcerer and Wizard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    The German translations had it worse, really. Because unlike English, which has both Germanic (Wizard, Warlock) and Romance (Sorcerer) vocabulary to draw from, modern German just doesn't have that many words for "person who uses magic". So they went with "Zauberer" for Wizard, "male person with magical abilities", which apparently goes back to Germanic Taubra and never ment anything else. Except it also means "stage magician". And then they ran out of good words for "Sorcerer", so they went with "Hexenmeister". Which literally translates as "Master of Witches", which historically has three or four meanings: a male witch; the male leader of a coven of witches; the devil, who of course is master of all witches; and a witch hunter, witch finder or executioner of witches. Not ideal, really.
    And then they really, really ran into the problem with the warlock, because they were now totally out of words for people who use magic. So they went with "Hexer". Which just means male witch, but also has the problem of being really, really close to Hexenmeister.
    I feel like they could have been a bit more creative with the German names. I'd probably have gone with "Beschwörer" for Sorcerer (translates as "summoner" in a narrow sense or "evoker" if applied more broadly). It's not a great fit, but better than making a distinction between "Hexer" and "Hexenmeister".
    What did the monk say to his dinner?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Out of the frying pan and into the friar!


    How would you describe a knife?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Cutting-edge technology

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •