[3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

[Troacctid]

Props again for the mountebank. I actually made a fix for it, mostly because I hated the fact it's capstone was "beg the DM or be removed from play harder than risen martyr." The concept was really cool and was like a sneaky warlock at base.

Doesn't every single 4e class have a capstone that basically does the same thing?

[Thurbane]

It would be interesting to play a Mountebank//Dread Necro in a gestalt game.

At level 20 you simultaneously become a Half-fiend and a Lich. Lichfiend?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Doesn't every single 4e class have a capstone that basically does the same thing?

Kind of. Of the classes I remember (Fighter and Rogue definitely, maybe Ranger) all had 3 or so options for their final daily power, and one of the options for each was an attack that did a whole lot of damage (7x your weapon's damage IIRC). I wouldn't be surprised if every class had a similar option, but it's always just one of the available choices.

Also, any character that takes the same Epic Destiny (many of which are available to all characters) will an additional capstone-like ability identical to any other player with the same Epic Destiny. If you're only using the PHB, which doesn't have a lot of EDs to choose from, I could totally see multiple players (or even the whole party in extreme cases) picking the same one.

[PraxisVetli]

-Sidenote that fits as an obscure theory: If you take all appearances of the iconic characters and consider them all canon as part of a long story, you could argue that Mialee is the most powerful. Not only does she have a prestige class AND reaches epic levels as a wizard besides that, she is literally the only character in the game portrayed as a Gestalt character, not once but thrice. If you assume she hit all 20 levels in each class, and was using wizard and candlecaster to fill in the other side, she arguably ends up a (Wizard 50/Candlecaster 10)//(Fighter 20/Rogue 20/Ranger 20).

There's also the fact that she's seen summoning a Coatl (PHB pg 286) and a Nalfeshnee (FC pg 89) which leads us to believe traveling with her must have been quite a doozy, since at some point her alignment does an absolute 180.

[Mr Adventurer]

There's also the fact that she's seen summoning a Coatl (PHB pg 286) and a Nalfeshnee (FC pg 89) which leads us to believe traveling with her must have been quite a doozy, since at some point her alignment does an absolute 180.

Nah - Wizards can summon what they like.

[PraxisVetli]

Nah - Wizards can summon what they like.

They aren't bound by the alignment?

[Mr Adventurer]

They aren't bound by the alignment?

Only Clerics have that restriction, AIUI. It's still an Evil act to summon an Evil creature; but then, if you're using Planar Binding, in order to do that you will first have had to cast a Magic Circle against Evil, which is a Good spell, so, you're probably fine...

[hamishspence]

There's no "redemption points" mirror to Corruption points though. A wizard casting [evil] summoning spells increases their Corruption - but casting [good] spells doesn't decrease it. Only atoning for each cast, does that.

[Mr Adventurer]

There's no "redemption points" mirror to Corruption points though. A wizard casting [evil] summoning spells increases their Corruption - but casting [good] spells doesn't decrease it. Only atoning for each cast, does that.

Maybe, but "corruption points" are so optional that I don't even know what rule you're referring to. Unearthed Arcana? Heroes of Horror? I've never seen them in actual play.

[Troacctid]

Corruption points are the method used by the Pact Primeval to determine whether a creature is sent to the Nine Hells when they die in the default cosmology. FC2 has more info. Notably, the system applies only to Lawful creatures.

[Mr Adventurer]

Oh cool, thanks.

[hamishspence]

There's also the fact that she's seen summoning a Coatl (PHB pg 286) and a Nalfeshnee (FC pg 89) which leads us to believe traveling with her must have been quite a doozy, since at some point her alignment does an absolute 180.

Notably, the system applies only to Lawful creatures.

It also has an Obesiance Points system that applies to Evil, non-lawful, creatures.

I think the idea is, if you're Lawful and your Corruption is 9+, you go to the Nine Hells after death - but if you're non-Lawful and both your Corruption and Obesiance scores are 9+, you go to the Nine Hells after death, regardless of your actual alignment.

I'm not sure if there are any Mialee pics in FC2 - but there is one in FC1 - the one that shows her summoning a Nalfeshnee.

[Jowgen]

Extra side-note to the Corruption point system: The FCII rules for removing corruption points fit with the redemption rules from Complete Champion (which has the Pendant of Redemption, i.e. the single most useful item in this regard), which require giving up all gains, making restitution to all harmed, and doing some sorta penance activity as dictated by a spiritual advisor.

Anyone with corruption 3 or lower can reset by simply doing those, while those with 4+ explicitly need atonement spells in addition, although those who gained benefits they can't get rid of may be SoL.

The BoED rules which basically turn redemption into 2 weeks of therapy, on the other hand, may change alignment but technically do nothing to undo corruption points. There is, to my knowledge, no system to undo obeisance points; so avoiding a lawful afterlife seems harder than avoiding an evil one; unless you accept that obeisance only applies if corruption is met.

[AlexanderRM]

Talaire is an interesting race made of 6 houses, each with its own psi like ability. They're found in Complete Psionic right after Synad, and I didn't see them the first time around because instead of being laid out like a normal race they're interlaced with the fluff and long history.

I interpreted this as "each individual is made of 6 houses", like the Dvati but instead of 2 humanoids it's 6 houses; I was really disappointed to realize what you actually meant.

Also I just want to say how incredibly glad that Wizards seems to have stopped (?) copyright enforcement on 3.5 a few years ago and we have sites like D&D Tools, RealmsHelp and some sites where you can just google a book and click on a PDF of the entire book rather than having to do a weird download process from a dodgy site; this thread would be utterly impossible to read without those.

[Aniikinis]

Also I just want to say how incredibly glad that Wizards seems to have stopped (?) copyright enforcement on 3.5 a few years ago and we have sites like D&D Tools, RealmsHelp and some sites where you can just google a book and click on a PDF of the entire book rather than having to do a weird download process from a dodgy site; this thread would be utterly impossible to read without those.

Monsterfinder is gone. No clue why but they probably got DMCA'd.

[Thurbane]

Obscure monster/template: Gravewight (Standing Stone p.31). Much better than the Wight template. +4 Natural Armor, Energy drain, Fear Aura, Frightful Presence, DR, Turn Resistance, Resist Cold & Electricity 20, Resist Fire 10, Str +4, Dex +2, Con --, Wis +2, Cha +4, +8 to Move Silently, and Blind Fight + Improved Initiative as bonus feats.

All for the low, low cost of CR +1. Great for Undead BBEGs.

Since it's 3.0 it lacks an Level Adjustment entry, so if your table plays that as LA +0, good luck to you (would not fly at most tables).

[Zaq]

Obscure monster/template: Gravewight (Standing Stone p.31). Much better than the Wight template. +4 Natural Armor, Energy drain, Fear Aura, Frightful Presence, DR, Turn Resistance, Resist Cold & Electricity 20, Resist Fire 10, Str +4, Dex +2, Con --, Wis +2, Cha +4, +8 to Move Silently, and Blind Fight + Improved Initiative as bonus feats.

All for the low, low cost of LA +1. Great for Undead BBEGs.

Since it's 3.0 it lacks an Level Adjustment entry, so if your table plays that as LA +0, good luck to you (would not fly at most tables).

Is it LA +1, or does it lack level adjustment? Did you mean CR +1?

[Thurbane]

Is it LA +1, or does it lack level adjustment? Did you mean CR +1?

Oops, meant CR +1...

[Aniikinis]

Monster: Deadly Dancer from Tome of Magic(pact magic monsters). It has next to nothing to do with binding save that they worship Paimon and mark their territory with his seal. Though they're seriously weird. ...and in some strange way kind of beautiful, I guess?

[Particle_Man]

Looks like the victim of multiple weapon grafts from a psychic warrior.

[schreier]

I immediately thought of 40k tyranid hormagaunt

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hormagaunt

[Remuko]

Obscure monster/template: Gravewight (Standing Stone p.31). Much better than the Wight template. +4 Natural Armor, Energy drain, Fear Aura, Frightful Presence, DR, Turn Resistance, Resist Cold & Electricity 20, Resist Fire 10, Str +4, Dex +2, Con --, Wis +2, Cha +4, +8 to Move Silently, and Blind Fight + Improved Initiative as bonus feats.

All for the low, low cost of CR +1. Great for Undead BBEGs.

Since it's 3.0 it lacks an Level Adjustment entry, so if your table plays that as LA +0, good luck to you (would not fly at most tables).

Resist Cold? Isnt immunity to cold an undead trait? It has turn resist and Con - so I'm assuming its undead like the normal Ghoul...

[ZamielVanWeber]

Resist Cold? Isnt immunity to cold an undead trait? It has turn resist and Con - so I'm assuming its undead like the normal Ghoul...

Undead are not natively immune to cold, no. Skeletons are immune and are the most commonly encountered undead due to be easy to build encounters with enough resistances to annoy the entire party (and actually make turn undead look good).

[Thurbane]

I immediately thought of 40k tyranid hormagaunt

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hormagaunt

Speaking of 40K, how about the Kruthiks from Miniatures Handook?



...who are the bargain basement cousins of the Kythons from BoVD.

[The Viscount]

Hey, the Kruthik was good enough to get honored with a pretty sweet meld in Magic of Incarnum; I can't say the same for the Kython.

[Remuko]

Undead are not natively immune to cold, no. Skeletons are immune and are the most commonly encountered undead due to be easy to build encounters with enough resistances to annoy the entire party (and actually make turn undead look good).

huh wow idk how that flew by me. I somehow thought it was all undead. weird.

[Zaq]

Hey, the Kruthik was good enough to get honored with a pretty sweet meld in Magic of Incarnum; I can't say the same for the Kython.

That’s ‘cuz kruthiks are magical beasts and kythons are aberrations. Totemist melds are all supposed to be based on magical beasts. (Except, like, the beast tamer’s circlet, hunter’s circlet, and riding bracers, but whatever.)

[Vizzerdrix]

...who are the bargain basement cousins of the Kythons from BoVD.

I freaking LOVE the kythons! I should research a raw way to add them to the summons list.

[DrMotives]

I freaking LOVE the kythons! I should research a raw way to add them to the summons list.

It's a little weird that there's no aberration summoning ability. It'd fit with the Lovecraft theming so many of them have.

[Thurbane]

It's a little weird that there's no aberration summoning ability. It'd fit with the Lovecraft theming so many of them have.

I once tried home-brewing this ability for Alienists, to replace their awful Summon Monster nerf...