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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Way of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    Way of the Sage [Monastic Tradition]
    You have mastered an obscure and arcane form of martial arts that allows you to cast spells.

    Monk Level Cantrips Known Spells Known Slot Level
    3rd 2 3 1st
    4th 2 4 1st
    5th 2 4 1st
    6th 2 4 1st
    7th 2 5 2nd
    8th 2 6 2nd
    9th 2 6 2nd
    10th 3 7 2nd
    11th 3 8 2nd
    12th 3 8 2nd
    13th 3 9 3rd
    14th 3 10 3rd
    15th 3 10 3rd
    16th 3 11 3rd
    17th 3 11 3rd
    18th 3 11 3rd
    19th 3 12 4th
    20th 3 13 4th

    3 :- Spellcasting

    Through intense meditation, you have achieved a level of enlightenment that allows you to cast spells.

    Cantrips
    You learn two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. You learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
    Spell Slots
    Whenever you regain your ki points, you also gain a spell slot of the indicated level. You may use spell slots created by this feature to cast the spells you know. Any spell slots created this way are lost the next time you take a short or long rest.
    Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher
    You know three 1st-level cleric spells of your choice. The Spells Known column of the above table shows when you learn more cleric spells of 1st level or higher. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 7th level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the cleric spells you know with another spell of your choice from the cleric spell list.
    Spellcasting Ability
    Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your cleric spells, since you learn your spells through intense self-discipline. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a cleric spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
    Spell save DC: 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
    Spell attack modifier: Your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

    3 :- Opening The Third Eye

    You gain proficiency in Religion if you do not already have it. In addition, you may use your body as a divine focus for your spells.

    6 :- Enlightened Fist
    You may use Stunning Strike on your spell attacks, and may use Deflect Missiles to block, catch, and return ranged spell attacks.

    11 :- Gaze Upon The Universe
    Whenever you regain your ki, you gain a second spell slot. You may spend 1 ki point to automatically succeed on a concentration check to maintain your spells.

    17 :- Feel The Cosmos
    You may spend 3 ki points to give a creature you can see disadvantage on a saving throw against a spell you cast. In addition, you can no longer die of old age.

    ---

    Enlightened Fist is much saner than you'd initially think. The only spells you can really use it to Stunning Strike with are Guiding Bolt and Spiritual Weapon. I just felt like that kind of effect had to be in there somewhere. Also, am I the only person who is somewhat confused by the fact that Clerics get so little in the way of spell attacks? I'd expect them to at least​ have Chill Touch...

    Overall, though, you're going to want to pick spells like Cure Wounds or Augury over stuff like Guiding Bolt.

    Spoiler: Original Version
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    Path of the Sage [Monastic Tradition]
    You have mastered an obscure and arcane form of martial arts that allows you to cast spells.

    3 :- Ancient Sagacity
    You gain proficiency in Arcana if you do not already have it. In addition, you learn two cleric cantrips of your choice. Your spellcasting ability score for those cantrips is Wisdom.

    3 :- Primordial Wisdom
    You learn three 1st level cleric spells. At each odd level thereafter, you learn another spell of your choice from the cleric spell list. You may learn spells of a level up to the highest level of spell slots you can create. Your spellcasting ability score is Wisdom.

    3 :- Open The Third Eye
    Whenever you meditate to regain your ki points, you may spend ki points to form spell slots in your mind, allowing you to cast the spells you have learned. The following table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You can create spell slots no higher in level than 5th. Ki points spent this way are lost until the next time you take a long rest, reducing the size of your ki pool accordingly. At the end of your next long rest, you lose any spell slots created this way, and you regain any ki points spent on this feature.

    Minimum Level Spell Slot Level Ki Point Cost
    3rd
    1st
    2
    7th
    2nd
    3
    13th
    3rd
    5
    19th
    4th
    6

    6 :- Gaze Upon The Universe
    At the end of each short rest, you lose any spell slots created through Open The Third Eye, and you regain any ki points spent on that feature.

    11 :- The Enlightened Fist
    You learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice. In addition, on any turn where you use your action to cast a spell, you may immediately use your bonus action to either make an unarmed attack or use Flurry of Blows.

    17 :- A Killing Thought
    You learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice. Whenever you cast a spell that deals damage, you may spend any amount of ki. For each ki you spent this way, you may replace one of that spell's damage dice with your Martial Arts die.

    ---

    Is this too imbalanced? I was originally considering just giving them unlimited access to Flexible Casting, but that turned out to be somewhat imbalanced with Gaze Upon The Universe. As it stands, the power level of the spell slots they can generate is roughly comparable to other third-casters. I'm unsure about that 17th level feature - it's more filler than anything else.
    Last edited by Amechra; 2019-07-21 at 08:53 PM.
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Path of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    You are intending that any spell you know is prepared? I might drop a line in there to clarify, I was a little puzzled. Of course that might just be me.

    Open the Third Eye You say no higher than 5th level spells but the table only goes to 4th.

    A Killing Thought I would suggest "Whenever you deal a spell that does damage you may spend a number of ki points up to the spells level. For each ki spent you deal a bonus dice worth of damage equal to your martial arts die."
    And that is probably still a bit underpowered?
    Last edited by Calen; 2019-07-16 at 03:07 PM.
    You surrender after you're dead. Lan Mandragoran

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    Default Re: Path of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    Paths are for barbarians. The format for a monk would be "Way of the Sage."

    This is also fairly awkward. from 3rd to 5th level it cuts deeply into your damage output to cast anything. That limit is lifted at 6th level, and you can do ridiculous out of combat healing. Cast Cure wounds a number of times equal to half your level, then regain all those resources after an hour.

    if you want spellcasting to be on a long rest, give them regular 1/3 spellcasting. If you want something tied to short rests give out 1/3 of pact magic, and add a few abilities that cost Ki points to balance it out at higher levels. Not having to spend ki points at 3rd level would actually be a good way to balance the weakness of 1/3 spellcasting at low levels.

    Also, 11th level is supposed to grant a major feature. It can be a bit skimpier than usual for caster subclass, but should probably be more than a knockoff of the Eldritch Knight.

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    Default Re: Path of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Calen View Post
    You are intending that any spell you know is prepared? I might drop a line in there to clarify, I was a little puzzled. Of course that might just be me.

    Open the Third Eye You say no higher than 5th level spells but the table only goes to 4th.

    A Killing Thought I would suggest "Whenever you deal a spell that does damage you may spend a number of ki points up to the spells level. For each ki spent you deal a bonus dice worth of damage equal to your martial arts die."
    And that is probably still a bit underpowered?
    Clerics, Druids, and Wizards are the only classes that prepare spells.

    That's a typo, and I like the idea for buffing A Killing Thought (which might be dumped anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Paths are for barbarians. The format for a monk would be "Way of the Sage."

    This is also fairly awkward. from 3rd to 5th level it cuts deeply into your damage output to cast anything. That limit is lifted at 6th level, and you can do ridiculous out of combat healing. Cast Cure wounds a number of times equal to half your level, then regain all those resources after an hour.

    if you want spellcasting to be on a long rest, give them regular 1/3 spellcasting. If you want something tied to short rests give out 1/3 of pact magic, and add a few abilities that cost Ki points to balance it out at higher levels. Not having to spend ki points at 3rd level would actually be a good way to balance the weakness of 1/3 spellcasting at low levels.

    Also, 11th level is supposed to grant a major feature. It can be a bit skimpier than usual for caster subclass, but should probably be more than a knockoff of the Eldritch Knight.
    Honestly, it was Way of the Sage... and then I got flip-flopped and went "no, Ways are for Barbarians!" My brain is silly.

    The awkwardness is to be expected, I'm afraid - I started with the idea of "third-caster based around Flexible Casting", and it's surprisingly hard to get that to hit a nice balanced number of points (maybe making it cost ki directly was a mistake). Also, Cleric was probably the wrong spell list to pull from - it was originally Abjuration + Transmutation from the Wizard list, then I changed it last second for no good reason.

    Hmm...

    What if I made them a normal third-caster, and then gave them Flexible Magic as a feature at 6th level, costing ki points like it does currently at 3rd level? Not sure what to give them at 11th and 17th, if I do that... being able to channel Stunning Strike through spells wouldn't be too broken, would it?
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

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    Default Re: Path of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    Itís a good start.

    I actually like the Cleric spell list as your choice, both being Wisdom classes, though I would swap the skill to Religion if you keep it this way.

    Monks are short rest based, so I would avoid giving them long rest spell slot renewal. Tying spells to Ki Points is intuitive and would certainly be my first choice, but if you donít think it works or cuts into your flurry of blows resource too much, make it lesser pact magic.

    You might want to look at the Monk from Diablo for inspiration here. I donít have any solid suggestions, but it might offer some good ideas if you look into it.

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    Default Re: Way of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    I revised it so that you have half-Warlock casting (still from the Cleric list). Also, the other features should be a bit more... distinctive... now.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

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    Default Re: Way of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    This new version is rather nice. Thanks

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    Default Re: Way of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Waffle_Iron View Post
    This new version is rather nice. Thanks
    Thanks! Anything stand out in particular?
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

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    Default Re: Way of the Sage (Proper Caster Monk Subclass) [PEACH]

    Whoops, thought I had replied on the new design already.

    This looks a lot better. All the abilities fit thematically, (your body is a divine focus in particular), and involve your ki points with draining them entirely. The boost to existing monk abilities also gives the subclass thematic things it can do that both other casters and other monks can't.

    You also have abilities that go off without needing the lone spell slot, and you get the 2nd one the same time warlocks get their 3rd, and they get their 4th (and Mystic Arcanums) before your spells slots are nearly the same level as theirs. All of which means you aren't stepping on their toes very much. All of the abilities also look appropriately powerful for monk features of those levels.

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