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Thread: Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
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- Jul 2013
Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
Inspired by this post on another page, I figured I'd flesh out precisely my fix for what the sorcerer would be
Level Proficiency Bonus Mana Points Features Cantrips Known Spells Known Maximum Creatable Spell Level (Point Cost) 1st +2 4 Innate Casting, Mana Points, Sorcerous Origin 4 2 1st (2) 2nd +2 6 Font of Magic, Flexible Casting 4 3 1st (2) 3rd +2 14 Metamagic 5 4 2nd (3) 4th +2 17 Ability Score Improvement 5 5 2nd (3) 5th +3 27 -- 5 6 3rd (5) 6th +3 32 Sorcerous Origin Feature Ability 5 7 3rd (5) 7th +3 38 Precise Spells 5 8 4th (6) 8th +3 44 Ability Score Improvement 5 9 4th (6) 9th +4 57 -- 5 10 5th (7) 10th +4 64 Metamagic 6 11 5th (7) 11th +4 73 -- 6 12 6th (9) 12th +4 73 Ability Score Improvement 6 13 6th (9) 13th +5 83 Metamagic 6 14 7th (10) 14th +5 83 Sorcerous Origin Feature Ability 6 15 7th (10) 15th +5 94 -- 6 16 8th (11) 16th +5 94 Ability Score Improvement 7 17 8th (11) 17th +6 107 Metamagic 7 18 9th (13) 18th +6 114 Sorcerous Origin Feature Ability 7 19 9th (13) 19th +6 123 Ability Score Improvement 7 20 9th (13) 20th +6 133 Sorcerous Restoration 7 21 9th (13)
An event in your past, or in the life of a parent or ancestor, left an indelible mark on you, infusing you with arcane magic. This font of magic, whatever its origin, fuels your spells.
At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the Sorcerer Spells list. You learn additional sorcerer cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Sorcerer table.
The Sorcerer table shows how much mana you have to cast your spells. To cast one of these sorcerer spells, you must expend the requisite mana points of the spellís level or higher, also shown in the table. You regain all expended mana when you finish a long rest.
For example, if you know the 1st-level spell burning hands and have a 3 mana available, you can cast burning hands as a 1st level spell for 2 mana, or a 2nd level spell for 3 mana.
You learn other ways to use your mana as you reach higher levels. You can't cast more than one 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th level spell per long rest.
Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher
You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the Sorcerer Spells list.
The Spells Known column of the Sorcerer table shows when you learn more sorcerer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level equal to or less than Spell level known column in your sorcerer table. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list.
Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your sorcerer spells, since the power of your magic relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
- Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier
- Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier
Unlike other spellcasters, you are not required to use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your sorcerer spells, nor must you use any material components of a value less than 1gp.
Choose a sorcerous origin, which describes the source of your innate magical power, such as Draconic Bloodline, Divine Soul, Wild Magic, Shadow Magic, Phoenix Sorcery, Pyromancy, Giant Soul, Sea Sorcery, Stone Sorcery, Storm Sorcery, or others.
Your choice grants you features when you choose it at 1st level and again at 6th, 14th, and 18th level.
Font of Magic
At 2nd level, you tap into a deep wellspring of magic within yourself. You gain additional mana equal to your sorcerer level (2 mana when you gain this feature).
In addition, you have the ability to regain mana equal to your charisma modifier in the following ways:
- When you reduce a hostile creature to 0 hit points
- When you score a critical hit on a creature using a spell or cantrip that requires an attack roll.
- Whenever a creature rolls a natural 1 on the saving throw of a spell or cantrip that requires a saving throw.
As you're an innate magic user, you inherently understand other styles of magic. If multiclassed into another class that uses spell slot spellcasting or pact magic, you can use your mana points to refresh expended spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional mana.
- Creating Spell Slots. You can transform mana into one spell slot as a bonus action on your turn. The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You cannot create spell slots higher than 5th level. Any spell slot you create with this feature vanishes when you finish a long rest.
- Converting a Spell Slot to Mana. As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of mana equal to the slotís level.
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to twist your spells to suit your needs. You gain three of the following Metamagic options of your choice. You gain another one at 10th, 13th and 17th level.
You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the Metamagic options you know and replace it with another Metamagic.
- Alter Elemental Spell
When you gain this metamagic option, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder.
When you cast a spell that deals a damage type other than the one chosen you can have it deal the chosen damage type instead. You can use Alter Elemental Spell even if you have already used a different Metamagic option during the casting of the spell.
- Careful Spell
When you cast a spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw, you can protect some of those creatures from the spellís full force. To do so, you spend 1 mana point and choose a number of those creatures up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). A chosen creature automatically succeeds on its saving throw against the spell.
- Defensive Spell
When you cast a spell, you can spend any number of mana points, up to your Charisma Modifier, to gain Temporary Hit Points equal to twice the mana spent. These hit points last until your next long rest.
- Distant Spell
When you cast a spell that has a range of 5 feet or greater, you can spend 1 mana point to double the range of the spell.
When you cast a spell that has a range of touch, you can spend 1 mana point to make the range of the spell 30 feet.
- Empowered Spell
When you roll damage for a spell, you can spend 1 mana point to reroll a number of the damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one). You must use the new rolls. You can use Empowered Spell even if you have already used a different Metamagic option during the casting of the spell.
- Ensure Spell
You can spend 2 mana points as a bonus action. If you do, the next spell you cast this turn that deals damage, the damage dealt canít be less than your charisma modifier for each damage die rolled.
- Extended Spell
When you cast a spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 1 mana point to double its duration, to a maximum duration of 24 hours.
- Heightened Spell
When you cast a spell that forces a creature to make a saving throw to resist its effects, you can spend 3 mana points to give one target of the spell disadvantage on its first saving throw made against the spell.
- Itching Spell
When you cast a spell that effects one or more creatures, you may spend 1 mana point to also force those creatures to succeed on a Constitution saving throw or move 5 feet in a random direction if it can move and its speed is at least 5 feet. Roll a d4 for the direction: 1, north; 2, south; 3, east; or 4, west. This movement doesnít provoke opportunity attacks, and if the direction rolled is blocked, the target doesn't move.
- Jinxed Spell
When you cast a spell, you can spend mana points equal to the number of creatures affected or targeted by the spell to mark them. Any creature attacking a creature marked in this way has advantage on the first attack roll, which consumes the mark.
- Quickened Spell
When you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 2 mana points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action for this casting.
- Reactive Spell
When you are damaged by a creature you can see within 30 feet, you can spend 3 mana points to a cast a spell as a reaction at that creature. The spell must have a casting time of only 1 action and must target only that creature.
- Seeking Spell
When you cast a spell that requires an attack roll, targets hit by that spell are marked for 1 minute. Whenever you cast a spell that requires an attack roll on a marked creature, you may spend 1 mana point to ignore half cover and three-quarters cover this turn.
- Subtle Spell
When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 mana point to cast it without any somatic or verbal components.
- Twin Spell
When you cast a spell that targets only one creature and doesnít have a range of self, you can spend a number of mana points equal to the spellís mana cost, minus 1, to target a second creature in range with the same spell (1 mana point if the spell is a cantrip). To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spellís current level. For example, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray arenít eligible, but Ray of Frost is.
Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you canít increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
When you reach 7th level, you have profound control over the impact of your spells. You gain the following metamagic features:
Precision Targeting: As a bonus action, you can choose a specific part of the body to target with your next spell, or cantrip. You gain the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that part cannot be targeted. This modifier costs 1 mana point no matter which part of the creature you target, and can be used in addition to metamagic feats.
- Arms: On a hit, the target takes half damage from the hit, but drops one carried item of the sorcererís choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands.
- Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone.
- Torso: Targeting the torso scores a critical hit on a spell attack roll of 19 or 20.
- Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and must make a Concentration check against your spell save DC, or fall 20 ft.
- Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and is also confused during their next turn. Confused targets roll a d4 at the beginning of their next turn, which determines how they act during that turn:
- Act normally.
- Do nothing but move up to half their speed.
- Deal 1d4 points of damage + Str modifier to self with item in hand.
- Attack nearest creature, including allies and familiars
Utilitized cantrips: Each option can be applied to any single casting with a cantrip of the appropriate type by expending 1 additional mana, but the sorcerer must declare this using before casting the spell.
- Melt Lock: The sorcerer casts a spell dealing acid damage against a lock within range of that spell. A simple lock has an AC of 10 (+0 Dex Save), an average lock has an AC of 15 (+2 Dex Save), and a superior lock has an AC of 20 (+5 Dex Save). On a hit or failed save, the lock is destroyed, and the object can be opened as if it were unlocked. On a miss, the lock is destroyed, but the object is jammed and still considered locked. A key, combination, or similar mechanical method of unlocking the lock no longer works, though Knock can still be employed to bypass the lock.
- Cauterize: The sorcerer casts a spell dealing Fire damage against themselves or an adjacent creature to staunch a bleeding wound or target at 0 hit points making death saves. Instead of dealing damage, the spell ends a single bleed condition and stabilizes affecting the creature. You do not have to make an attack roll when performing the spell in this way; but the casting still uses up your action as normal.
- Freeze Liquid: The sorcerer casts a spell dealing cold damage against a liquid in the environment within the range of the spell. This causes the liquid freeze solid (at least a 5-foot square section is frozen). Each 5-foot-square frozen section has AC 5 and 15 hit points. Reducing a frozen section to 0 hit points destroys it.
- Improvise: Whenever sorcerer casts a spell creating a small object, the duration of that spell is doubled, and it can be used as a weapon with which you are proficient. You can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. If the created object doesn't resemble a weapon, it deals 1d4 damage and can be thrown at a range of 20/60.
At 20th level, you regain 6 expended mana points whenever you finish a short rest. In addition, you gain 2 mana when:
- you reduce a hostile creature to 0 hit points.
- you score a critical hit on a creature using a spell or cantrip that requires an attack roll.
- a creature rolls a natural 1 on the saving throw of a spell or cantrip that requires a saving throw.
- It's using the Spell point system in the DMG. Sorcery points are comingled within the spell points for the "mana points" with "Innate Spellcasting"
- I've also made some minor changes to base class, such as eschewing arcane foci and material components of a value less than 1 gp.
- Flexible Casting is slightly redone to explain how the mana point system will interact with the normal spellcasting that has Vancian Slots. It is essentially the same as it is now.
- I increased the number of spells known by expanding the cantrips known, and not slowing spells-known progression at later levels.
- I've added some additional metamagic options that won't rock the boat much, and increased the base number of Metamagics from 2 to 3, for a total of 8 by max level.
- From the Grit system from the Pathfinder Gunslinger, I included a called shot system for the sorcerer as metamagics that all sorcerers will have access to. Expanded Crit range, disarming, and knockdown options, as well as the ability to use damaging cantrips in flavorful ways - acid splash to burn off locks, fire spells to cauterize wounds, Ray of Frost to freeze water, and if someone were to create a greatsword with Shape Water, or a dagger with Prestidigitation, it'll be recognized as a weapon and last long enough to use.
- I've buffed Sorcerous Restoration, increasing mana points gained on short rest from 4 to 6, and increased mana returned from kills & crits from 1 to 2.
- Some Edits based on feedback (7/17): Reworked Jinxed spell, Added Ensure Spell, Mana Shield renamed to Defensive Spell.
Please let me know what you think!
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Re: Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
I like what I see, but since you asked for PEACH... *cracks knuckles*
- Your body is a spell focus, great ribbon
- Much more reasonable number of spells known, though i'm sure some will say you've overshot the mark
- That is one boatload of mana. Not only is there nothing stopping you from pouring it into high level spells w/ MM, you get some back on a kill, crit or enemy rolling a 1.
- Why does Flexible casting exist? This sorcerer doesn't do anything with spell slots. This would require MCing to function and there are better ways to show how mana would interact with other ways of casting when you MC.
- Swapping MM on level up, lovely stuff. Not sure about starting with 3 options, probably needs testing.
- Distant spell is still an underperformer, you might want to add 'can be used with other MM'
- Extend spell might also need a little boost, like increasing 1 min spells to 10 min and 10 min to 1 hour instead of straight doubling. Would need testing.
- Heighten is still pretty costly for its benefits. Compare against Careful spell
- Itching spell is funny, but not sure if it's worth a whole MM selection. That said you get 8 total so room for a less optimized choice or two, i'm just imagining the class guides.
- Jynxed spell: Your next attack, anyones next attack or everyones next attack?
- Mana shield appears more like a class or subclass feature than MM, it's not actually changing the spell at all.
- Twin spell has an interesting cost calculation, possibly too much hassle for players to bother with.
- Precision targeting is an interesting take on called shots, my question is if we are going with called shots why is only the sorc capable of them?*
- Utilized cantrips seems to be a RAW approach to a RAC concept. It's not bad, just strikes me as weird since as a DM I often allow such things anyways.
- Sorcs still don't get any stat bonus to cantrip damage, despite your efforts to improve them. Level 7 doesn't seem like a bad place to put it.
- Measuring capstones has always been more art than science, but seems OK.
I personally would have preferred having fewer total Mana available (such as by not adding level, Cha or prof to the SP pool) and granting some short rest recovery much earlier in a sorcs life to promote more balance between nova and consistency based play. It also makes the capstone more of an improvement than a totally new feature.
I'd also personally prefer to grant more of those extra spells known at earlier levels, certainly before tier 3.
[SIZE=1]*It's a sort of backwards compatibility problem that I remember this being called the 'mermaid effect', where something that wasn't initially a thing becomes a problem when later items are introduced that deal with it. In the case of mermaids that thing being the amphibious/water breathing trait.
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
Staying Power effects are quite useful if done properly, but utterly ridiculous if not.
Sorcerers are a class that are supposed to be really good at doing the things they know how to do, using metamagic to alter their spells accordingly. I did, however, add another Metamagic option inspired by your feedback. Ensure Spell allows you to use a bonus action to create a "damage floor" of the next spell cast, so it will not do damage less than your Charisma Modifier. So, for example:
- an Ensured Fire Bolt with +5 Charisma can only deal 5-10 damage on each damage die, instead of 1-10 damage.
- an Ensured Acid Splash with +4 Charisma could only deal 4-6 damage on each damage die.
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
This looks interesting
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
There's a lot about this I like, but I also feel like you may be underestimating the power of the Sorcerer and thus giving him a bit too much power.
Here are my thoughts on some of the things you propose:
Mana - I think Mana & Sorcery Points should be different pools, as combining them lets you use Metamagic a bit too liberally.
Creatable slots - I would also limit the amount of cratable 1st-2nd-level spells to 9, and 3rd-5th-level spells to 5, to prevent this revised Sorcerer from nova-ing too hard.
I like that this system limits the power of MC, which is a problem with giving Spell Points to Sorcerer.
I also like giving the Sorcerer 3 metamagics instead of 2. I think it doesn't provide the Sorcerer with that much power, despite the added versatility.
Eschew Focus - while mostly a ribbon in my eyes, might buff MC's a bit too much. Sorcadin stands to gain the most from this, and he is already ridiculous.
Spells known - I feel like this might be too much. I don't want the Sorcerer to be more like the Wizard. It could stand to gain from a few more, and like Kane0 said, earlier in the game. I would limit this number to 18 or so, perhaps even less.
Regaining Mana through some events... I don't know about this. I think it's again pushing the power of this revision a bit too far.
Percision Targetting might be a bit overcomplicated. Sure, it's nice, but I wouldn't add this mechanic. Same for Utilitized Cantrips.
I'm not saying these concepts are hard too grasp, just that it's a bit much too remember and on top of Mana just adds too many mechanics.
I haven't read too deep into these but those are my thoughts so far, which might change.
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: Sorcerer Revisited [PEACH]
Also, it doesn't make sense - Even the RAW Sorcerer can use six 5th level spells using sorc points and upgrading her 4th level spells... at level 10. And that's not touching any 1st or 2nd level spells, and leaving behind 1 3rd level spell. If a Sorcerer dumped all points and slots into 5th level spells, they'll have a total of eight 5th level spells per long rest, at 10. And leveling up will give more level 5 spells as she gains more tasty spell slots and sorc points.
- Wizards (44+: 6 at level 1, then 2 per level, plus any wizard spells found)
- Bards (22, or 24 for Lore)
- Clerics (30-35, based on Level + 10 Domain spells + Wis)
- Druids (Based on Level + WIS, with maxes based on subclass: Moon & Shepherd have up to 25, Dreams have 28, and Land & Spore have 33 due to Circle spells)
- Warlocks, provided they have some of their 8 invocations chosen are ones that give more spells (15 spells, 4 Mythic Arcanum, then augmented by invocations like Armor of Shadows, Book of Shadows, Sculptor of Flesh, et cetera)
- Paladins (with a modifier of +2 or more, as they can know 10 Oath spells + 1/2 Level + Cha, to a max of 25)
If you're 100% behind a full caster having less spells known than half-casters... I mean, that's a weird flex, but you do you.
The core of the Sorcerer, in my mind, is a caster that has supernatural control over their spells, as flavored by Metamagic. However the class that has that now is the Warlock, due to their invocations. Grasp of Hadar, Eldritch Smite, et cetera, are much better at that, with RAW execution.
As I mentioned above, both of the level 7 metamagic options could very easily fall into a "Rule of Cool" zone, where sorcerers could do these things already with enough DM fiat. However, all of that cool stuff can immediately vanish as soon as it's uncool to happen in the story. Locking in those abilities in the sorcerer class as a whole removes that wiggly-ness of DM fiat, and gives the Sorcerer Player more flexibility in picking their spells & cantrips.