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  1. - Top - End - #331
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Yeah, something happened to Lu, and at least part it involves some time travel. She says in the rant that someone was supposed to come and save her but didn't. She even blamed Klaus for not rescuing her, totally ignoring the fact she had shipped him off to Skif. Must be very nice to have such a selective memory like that. Oh wait, that's narcissism. And while there has been some random time travel, there is also so clearly controlled travel as Lu deliberately targeted the God Queens to assassinate them. I think we can say that Lu was probably the one responsible for the God Queen of Skif being killed.
    Lucrezia might have warps dependent on significant events - including, of course, the death of a God Queen, which she then causes.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    meh, insinuations are cheap.
    * my emphasis

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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Interesting. So part of the reason for Albia's power is a "secret power source" rather than anything innate to herself? Does breaking through a second time just mean you can see and tap this source of power?

  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Soooo, Lu claims that to have captured and tortured Queen Goddesses. That’s bad.

    I’m also surprised at Lu-in-Agatha’s willingness to die for the other Lus.

    And finally: ‘‘Your flame wanes.’’ What does that mean? Is Albia’s link with Thorpe weakening? Is Albia’s power? Or is it just a threat?
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Soooo, Lu claims that to have captured and tortured Queen Goddesses. That’s bad.
    I guess that this really is Lucrezia after the destruction of the queens and the mirrors, not before them.
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  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I guess that this really is Lucrezia after the destruction of the queens and the mirrors, not before them.
    Maybe. Or she knows just enough to bluff Albia.
    But with time travel/observation and body snatching involved,who knows what happened when to whom.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Soooo, Lu claims that to have captured and tortured Queen Goddesses. That’s bad.

    I’m also surprised at Lu-in-Agatha’s willingness to die for the other Lus.

    And finally: ‘‘Your flame wanes.’’ What does that mean? Is Albia’s link with Thorpe weakening? Is Albia’s power? Or is it just a threat?
    There are worse things than death. Being a juiced brain in a jar for example, having everything painfully extracted from you as you continue to exist. Its also possible she was trying to provoke albia into rashness to make room for an escape somehow. Or to drain thorpe too fast for her to finish her plan. As for her flame wanes, I expect its similar to the master. She is old. Her power is fading with the centuries. Nobody is truly eternal or immortal. And I would guess her power source are the people whose minds she can work through or otherwise "add to her garden" Like tossing more small logs on the fire to keep the flame going. There may be little to nothing left of the original tree trunks her own mind and power were based on so all thats left is the perpetuating fire of these other minds bolstering her. If she gets cut off from that source, she will gutter out and die.
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  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I’m also surprised at Lu-in-Agatha’s willingness to die for the other Lus.
    Considering her alternative at this time is capture and torture until she gives up all her secrets, I can see seeking her death as a very rational objective.
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  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Considering her alternative at this time is capture and torture until she gives up all her secrets, I can see seeking her death as a very rational objective.
    It also has the fringe benefit of Agatha being dead as well, and she's been a serious thorn in Lu's side for the last few years.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    It also has the fringe benefit of Agatha being dead as well, and she's been a serious thorn in Lu's side for the last few years.
    True. The last time she had this decision in her hand, back in the basement of the Castle, she was ready to kill herself to get rid of Agatha. She stayed her hand only so she could get the knowledge she'd wasped the Baron to her other selves and that's no longer the case.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Interesting. So part of the reason for Albia's power is a "secret power source" rather than anything innate to herself? Does breaking through a second time just mean you can see and tap this source of power?
    Think you hit the nail right on the head. And we have already seen something that can be used as one of there power sources as well. The Dyne under Der Kastel. It would seem that the God Queens need to "refuel" their powers from time to time from a outside power source. I hope that Albia has hers VERY well protected. That line about the "flame wanes" does not sound good.

    This also makes me wonder about the origin the spark. Might these power sources also have something to do with that?
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  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    In today's issue of "that's definitely science, not magic" Albia manifests in her servant in an underwater laboratory, grows to immense size, and conjures up restraints out of seemingly nowhere to levitate and clamp around Agatha/Lucrezia.

  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    True. The last time she had this decision in her hand, back in the basement of the Castle, she was ready to kill herself to get rid of Agatha. She stayed her hand only so she could get the knowledge she'd wasped the Baron to her other selves and that's no longer the case.
    There was also Zola's trickery, though getting captured by the Queen means she cannot warn her other selves anyways.

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Think you hit the nail right on the head. And we have already seen something that can be used as one of there power sources as well. The Dyne under Der Kastel. It would seem that the God Queens need to "refuel" their powers from time to time from a outside power source. I hope that Albia has hers VERY well protected. That line about the "flame wanes" does not sound good.

    This also makes me wonder about the origin the spark. Might these power sources also have something to do with that?
    Between the extra-dimensional forces showing up and other things, I wonder if the Second Breakthrough enables you to tap into power from some other dimension or "not our time" perception. Perhaps that's why the God-Queens are immortal; they don't age like normal humans or Sparks since they have a tie to a non-linear timeline.

    Part of this also reminds me to one possible explanation for powers in the fan-made Genius: the Transgression game. PCs in it are basically Sparks, although the idea is that their powers are lies, not actual science, and it's only their insanity that lets the superscience work. And some hints that it might be something alien to our reality that enables PCs and similarly-powered to change reality to function to alien rules. I wonder if all Sparks are tapping into some extra-dimensional force that enables them to 'see' things needed for super-science.

    I doubt we'll find out that Spark-made stuff isn't based on real science. That seems contrary to the whole setting of Girl Genius. But the idea that there's some extra-dimensional thing that Sparks tap into for power sorta makes sense. Or, perhaps, the Breakthrough is an alteration to a person that enables them to glimpse insights from that other reality. A Second Breakthrough enables one to see more clearly and draw power directly from the extra-dimensional source.

    Anyway, that's a theory.

  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    I'm becoming more and more convinced Albia will die before Agatha leaves England. If the off-stage-for-now Princess Urania shows up in person, the chances skyrocket, since she's likely to be Albia's successor.

  16. - Top - End - #346
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    I'm becoming more and more convinced Albia will die before Agatha leaves England. If the off-stage-for-now Princess Urania shows up in person, the chances skyrocket, since she's likely to be Albia's successor.
    It might set a pattern which should make other rulers in the world think twice before admitting Agatha and her band in. To be honest, I hope it will not come to that.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    It might set a pattern which should make other rulers in the world think twice before admitting Agatha and her band in. To be honest, I hope it will not come to that.
    The Master definitely already had serious reservations. The Heterodyne name may no longer be so strongly associated with villainy, but their misadventures still seem wildly disruptive to local political stability.

    Beetle's dead, Wulfenbach is in a time stop, Aronev's dead, the Arguron king is deposed, the High Curator is dead, and I probably missed a few minor incidents along the way (Zulenna, maybe?). Granted, few of those were really Agatha's *fault* but she does seem to catalyze chaos.

  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    I'm becoming more and more convinced Albia will die before Agatha leaves England. If the off-stage-for-now Princess Urania shows up in person, the chances skyrocket, since she's likely to be Albia's successor.
    Semi-Immortal God Queens probably don't die as easily as you'd expect. Particularly if we're going to end this book with shuffling off to not-Britain (I think Africa is next on the list?). It's just...not something I expect to happen.

    I mean, it could, just I don't see it as likely.


    Information that points to the Beacon Lucrezias being from after her many warps, though it also is solely based on information that Agatha herself had learned (meaning it could just be Agatha-Lucrezia pushing buttons as a complete bluff, without actually knowing anything relevant).
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-08-30 at 04:47 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

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  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by gbs5009 View Post
    The Master definitely already had serious reservations. The Heterodyne name may no longer be so strongly associated with villainy, but their misadventures still seem wildly disruptive to local political stability.

    Beetle's dead, Wulfenbach is in a time stop, Aronev's dead, the Arguron king is deposed, the High Curator is dead, and I probably missed a few minor incidents along the way (Zulenna, maybe?). Granted, few of those were really Agatha's *fault* but she does seem to catalyze chaos.
    Also the Master being assassinated, a large portion of the Sturmvoraous family getting murdered by siblings (though, I suppose that may just be Tuesday for them), the Corbettites (or at least one depot) bending knee to the Martellus, Wulfenbach's empire breaking out in a number of rebellions after he got injured (which seem to have only escalated since the time-stop) and a large number of Britain's sparks getting murdered. Oh, and not to mention the Other running free through Europa again. Agatha showing up somewhere does definitely means the local order of things is about to be seriously disrupted.

  20. - Top - End - #350
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurus View Post
    Also the Master being assassinated, a large portion of the Sturmvoraous family getting murdered by siblings (though, I suppose that may just be Tuesday for them), the Corbettites (or at least one depot) bending knee to the Martellus, Wulfenbach's empire breaking out in a number of rebellions after he got injured (which seem to have only escalated since the time-stop) and a large number of Britain's sparks getting murdered. Oh, and not to mention the Other running free through Europa again. Agatha showing up somewhere does definitely means the local order of things is about to be seriously disrupted.
    And the somewhat funny thing is, Klaus knew she would bring chaos just by existing right from the moment he learned, who she was.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  21. - Top - End - #351
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    And the somewhat funny thing is, Klaus knew she would bring chaos just by existing right from the moment he learned, who she was.
    Is there anybody who this isn't true for? It seems a truth as universally acknowledged as the one about young men, suitable fortunes, and wives.

  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I doubt we'll find out that Spark-made stuff isn't based on real science. That seems contrary to the whole setting of Girl Genius. But the idea that there's some extra-dimensional thing that Sparks tap into for power sorta makes sense. Or, perhaps, the Breakthrough is an alteration to a person that enables them to glimpse insights from that other reality. A Second Breakthrough enables one to see more clearly and draw power directly from the extra-dimensional source.
    Indeed, the whole setting of Girl Genius is based on the central conceit that magic exists and works in this world but is considered to be science. So it wouldn't make sense for the series to develop into a "our magic isn't real science anyway" direction.

    After all, what is going on in the comic whenever a spark gets creative is only science by fiat of the authors - it certainly has nothing to do with the application of the scientific method*.


    * with the possible exception of the circus' pie-baking spark's work.
    Last edited by Deliverance; 2019-08-31 at 09:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Deliverance View Post
    Indeed, the whole setting of Girl Genius is based on the central conceit that magic exists and works in this world but is considered to be science. So it wouldn't make sense for the series to develop into a "our magic isn't real science anyway" direction.

    After all, what is going on in the comic whenever a spark gets creative is only science by fiat of the authors - it certainly has nothing to do with the application of the scientific method*.


    * with the possible exception of the circus' pie-baking spark's work.
    You have the "true sparks" who are tapping into the collective knowledge of the human race or something, and then you have those people who are actually geniuses but kind of eccentric. They make calming pies
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  24. - Top - End - #354
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    I think that the sparks are "simply" geniuses in the old sense. The idea is that great artists cannot teach you how to create works like theirs, because their secret is simply that they have the genius, and they cannot pass it over to you. It is an innate power, that allows them to see something invisible to the others (either how Nature works, or the Absolute, depending on whom you ask). However, their works can serve as model for a school, and thus represent a breakthrough for artistic production in general.

    Sparks have this sort of clarity with scientific matters: once they have an objective, they can reach it because they understand how physics etc work in an immediate way that they cannot teach to others.

    The fugue state is very much like the "madness" of the artist as he performs. This is also a very old theme. I don't think it's random that the Baron and Gil look a lot like Beethoven when they first appear, or that Agatha plays music when she destroys the Baron's men.
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  25. - Top - End - #355
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I doubt we'll find out that Spark-made stuff isn't based on real science.
    It's not science, it's Science!

    Which involves much more lightning and gleeful laughter.

  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I think that the sparks are "simply" geniuses in the old sense. The idea is that great artists cannot teach you how to create works like theirs, because their secret is simply that they have the genius, and they cannot pass it over to you. It is an innate power, that allows them to see something invisible to the others (either how Nature works, or the Absolute, depending on whom you ask). However, their works can serve as model for a school, and thus represent a breakthrough for artistic production in general.

    Sparks have this sort of clarity with scientific matters: once they have an objective, they can reach it because they understand how physics etc work in an immediate way that they cannot teach to others.

    The fugue state is very much like the "madness" of the artist as he performs. This is also a very old theme. I don't think it's random that the Baron and Gil look a lot like Beethoven when they first appear, or that Agatha plays music when she destroys the Baron's men.
    This sounds like it is pretty good. A Spark is not merely a genius, but something above it; the Spark is something that is unique, inimitable, and in its own twisted way majestic.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  27. - Top - End - #357
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    I think the Spark is still something higher than "being extremely smart and creative". Glassvitch and Merlot were not able to complete the Baron's device despite his instructions - this is partially because the device was designed to be faulty, but even before that Merlot wasn't surprised they were unable to complete it. The Spark involves actually warping physics to create devices that cannot be recreated by anyone but another Spark, which is why Merlot is so frustrated that not having the Spark puts a limit on his achievements that even an uneducated farmboy might surpass. A lower level Spark may be able to re-create the works of a higher level one, especially if given instructions (see: Dumedd transferring Ottila into the giant cat clank). But the Spark is still necessary to do so at all, even if the most competent non-Spark were to take the device apart with instructions and try to put it back together again.

    I'm convinced that the final conflict in the story will be the decision over whether to get rid of the Spark or not. The first time window is just too clear - the Muse of Time/Lucrezia/whoever is addressing Agatha and asking if she really wants to return to how she was at the start of the story. The answer to that question should be interesting.

  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I'm convinced that the final conflict in the story will be the decision over whether to get rid of the Spark or not. The first time window is just too clear - the Muse of Time/Lucrezia/whoever is addressing Agatha and asking if she really wants to return to how she was at the start of the story. The answer to that question should be interesting.
    Based on the other windows that are shown, I can see one of two possibilities of what the Muse of Time is doing. The first phrase would be what you said, with the comment being something like "...you being like that?!", in which the Muse of Time is insulting Agatha and pointing out how she was at the beginning.
    The other one strikes me as a bit more likely, if we assume that whoever is the Muse of Time in that form is friendly (could be occupied by something else like Castle Heterodyne and Otilia), then it could be a demonstration of how to shift through time. Basically, the conversation being something like
    Agatha: "I think I'm supposed to open a window like..."
    Muse of Time:"Like that?!"

    Ultimately which one it is depends on whether the Muse of Time is supposed to be occupied by a friendly entity (possibly even Lucrezia, things can turn out that way), or an unfriendly one (probably Lucrezia, and probably very upset with Agatha).
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-08-31 at 06:52 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

  29. - Top - End - #359
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I think the Spark is still something higher than "being extremely smart and creative". Glassvitch and Merlot were not able to complete the Baron's device despite his instructions - this is partially because the device was designed to be faulty, but even before that Merlot wasn't surprised they were unable to complete it. The Spark involves actually warping physics to create devices that cannot be recreated by anyone but another Spark, which is why Merlot is so frustrated that not having the Spark puts a limit on his achievements that even an uneducated farmboy might surpass. A lower level Spark may be able to re-create the works of a higher level one, especially if given instructions (see: Dumedd transferring Ottila into the giant cat clank). But the Spark is still necessary to do so at all, even if the most competent non-Spark were to take the device apart with instructions and try to put it back together again.
    Non-sparks can replicate spark inventions just not understand them. Otherwise clanks or sophisticated weapons could not be mass-produced, or big projects like Castle Wulfenbach created at all. The same would go with repairing spark technology and this can totally be done by mundane people. Whether non-sparks could ever invent things on the same level given enough time is a different question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I'm convinced that the final conflict in the story will be the decision over whether to get rid of the Spark or not. The first time window is just too clear - the Muse of Time/Lucrezia/whoever is addressing Agatha and asking if she really wants to return to how she was at the start of the story. The answer to that question should be interesting.
    This is a very interesting observation and does fit that early page all too well, since Lucrezia is clearly pointing at Agatha.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Perhaps the Spark is a sort of a Ley Lines thing? Essentially, the Spark is the energy of the planet itself, as manifested in people. Those like the Heterodynes and the God Queens have found a direct link to the actual source of the planet's energy (the Dyne being a naturally occurring Ley Line deep beneath the surface). Hence the "safe power source" being that since the Sparks derive power from the Earth, they won't lose their buffed intellect unless they somehow leave the planet or the relevant aspect of the Earth is weakened.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.

    Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is serious talk about hypothetical
    Blue is irony and sarcasm


    "I think, therefore I am,
    I walk, therefore I stand,
    I sleep, therefore I dream;
    I joke, therefore I meme."
    -Squire Doodad

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