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  1. - Top - End - #721
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    NEO|Phyte's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    We do know they need to manually share information, which is why back during der kestle Lucrezia didn't just let Agatha die.
    Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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  2. - Top - End - #722
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Or at least one aspect of her was. Lady is split so much its going to take one hell of an exposition dump to wrap it all together. Keep in mind we have at LEAST three aspects of her in present time. Lugatha, clankcrezia, and zolcrezia. We have no idea if "the muse of time" is another aspect entirely, or one of the current ones going through a time loop of some sort. We dont know if they somehow share memories, need periodic info dumps when they bump into each other, etc. We have so little information on how any of this is happening.
    We know that Lugatha has memories about being trapped in Van Rijn's lab because that's how Agatha knew what to do to free her.
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  3. - Top - End - #723
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Do we even know that the muse of time is Lucrezia? There might be a different reason why Lugatha knew how the machine worked.

  4. - Top - End - #724
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    We know that Lugatha has memories about being trapped in Van Rijn's lab because that's how Agatha knew what to do to free her.
    Which means some sort of paradox is in place. How did she escape originally to have her memories of being locked up be included in her personality dump into agathas head? There is something seriously huge we are missing here. Its possible there is some sort of crazy time loop effect in place where, as an example, 200 years from now, original lucrezia/time clank broke out of a decayed prison cell, took part in various shenanigans, went back in time to download her mind into that machine used on agatha, then when installed in a proper host used the opportunity of being in paris to free "herself" sooner, thus creating a branching off point between aspects. THAT version of her is now different, without current knowledge of whats going on, possibly sticking its oar in the water all over the time stream. If we see at some point that the reason lucrezia keeps popping up against agatha at just the right time because "someone" is manipulating time to make it happen, it could create an interesting complication. Muse of time lucrezia is seeing how things pan out without her interference (presumably its not good) then going back and interfering to make them work out better.
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  5. - Top - End - #725
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Alandra View Post
    Do we even know that the muse of time is Lucrezia? There might be a different reason why Lugatha knew how the machine worked.
    It's not been explicitly said, but it's the only explanation that fits all the data we have. (Agatha's knowledge, the Muse of Time looking the same as the figure in the first time window, Lucrezia complaining about being gone for more time than anyone can imagine, and no one coming to save her, I may be forgetting something else.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Which means some sort of paradox is in place. How did she escape originally to have her memories of being locked up be included in her personality dump into agathas head? There is something seriously huge we are missing here. Its possible there is some sort of crazy time loop effect in place where, as an example, 200 years from now, original lucrezia/time clank broke out of a decayed prison cell, took part in various shenanigans, went back in time to download her mind into that machine used on agatha, then when installed in a proper host used the opportunity of being in paris to free "herself" sooner, thus creating a branching off point between aspects. THAT version of her is now different, without current knowledge of whats going on, possibly sticking its oar in the water all over the time stream. If we see at some point that the reason lucrezia keeps popping up against agatha at just the right time because "someone" is manipulating time to make it happen, it could create an interesting complication. Muse of time lucrezia is seeing how things pan out without her interference (presumably its not good) then going back and interfering to make them work out better.
    It's a closed time loop. There's no need to overthink this.
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  6. - Top - End - #726
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    It's a closed time loop. There's no need to overthink this.
    It could be, but this is fiction, we don't know that it will go that way.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  7. - Top - End - #727
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

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    Madness place forthcoming?
    quo nemo sequi potest

  8. - Top - End - #728
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    It's not been explicitly said, but it's the only explanation that fits all the data we have. (Agatha's knowledge, the Muse of Time looking the same as the figure in the first time window, Lucrezia complaining about being gone for more time than anyone can imagine, and no one coming to save her, I may be forgetting something else.)
    You are, indeed.


    It's a closed time loop. There's no need to overthink this.
    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    It could be, but this is fiction, we don't know that it will go that way.
    The way the time windows at the beginning and the time shifter in the dome (where has that guy gone to by the way?) implies it does, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspear View Post
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    Madness place forthcoming?
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    I’l fearing a second breakthrough, even.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-10-18 at 12:54 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #729
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    New comic: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...8#.Xal5iBYpAlQ

    Uh oh. I suspect Zeetha’s about to learn a hard lesson on why you don’t tell the villain exactly why they’re having problems.
    Sincerely,
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  10. - Top - End - #730
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    For a supposed climactic confrontation with the main villain I am really not invested in it. Just get on with it and rip out Lu out already!
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  11. - Top - End - #731
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    New comic: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...8#.Xal5iBYpAlQ

    Uh oh. I suspect Zeetha’s about to learn a hard lesson on why you don’t tell the villain exactly why they’re having problems.
    Rule #1. Never tell your enemy what he is doing wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
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  12. - Top - End - #732
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    It's not been explicitly said, but it's the only explanation that fits all the data we have. (Agatha's knowledge, the Muse of Time looking the same as the figure in the first time window, Lucrezia complaining about being gone for more time than anyone can imagine, and no one coming to save her, I may be forgetting something else.)
    Which probably means it's wrong and the Foglios are tricking us.

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    New comic: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...8#.Xal5iBYpAlQ

    Uh oh. I suspect Zeetha’s about to learn a hard lesson on why you don’t tell the villain exactly why they’re having problems.
    On the other hand, they're up against a problem. They can't kill Lu, because she's in Agatha's body. Fighting with swords, all Zeetha could do was block and make attacks that weren't meant to actually hit. Unless she could knock the sword out of her hand. And the longer the fight went on, the greater the chance Lu would realize that and try to take advantage of it. Right now Agatha's friends are fighting for time for the Three Amigos to build the machine anew; talking to Lu, distracting her, is a good tactic. Especially since it gives Violetta a chance to get back on her feet.

  13. - Top - End - #733
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    Which probably means it's wrong and the Foglios are tricking us.
    They told us through Albia that it was right and Lucrezia did not deny it, nor she seemed confused. Only angry at Albia calling it a game.
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  14. - Top - End - #734
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Rule #1. Never tell your enemy what he is doing wrong.
    Usually incorporated into the maxim "Never interrupt your enemy whilst he is making a mistake".

  15. - Top - End - #735
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    New comic: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...8#.Xal5iBYpAlQ

    Uh oh. I suspect Zeetha’s about to learn a hard lesson on why you don’t tell the villain exactly why they’re having problems.
    Oh, I don't know ... Lucrezia has thrown away Zeetha's other sword (Zeetha is used to two swords), and Zeetha has been dealing with powerful sparks for a long time.

    And most of all, Zeetha is not alone. This is all making Lucrezia fouus on her, and with Lucrezia concentrating on her, Violetta is in a better position to make her moves.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  16. - Top - End - #736
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    Oh, I don't know ... Lucrezia has thrown away Zeetha's other sword (Zeetha is used to two swords), and Zeetha has been dealing with powerful sparks for a long time.

    And most of all, Zeetha is not alone. This is all making Lucrezia fouus on her, and with Lucrezia concentrating on her, Violetta is in a better position to make her moves.
    I have a feeling "something this body can do" is not going to be aimed at Zeetha, but at Tarvek and Gil, because there's definitely something Agatha's body can do to them....

  17. - Top - End - #737
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I have a feeling "something this body can do" is not going to be aimed at Zeetha, but at Tarvek and Gil, because there's definitely something Agatha's body can do to them....
    Give them some credit, they know full well that it's Lucrezia in there, they won't help her (effectively killing Agatha) just because ... okay, give Tarvek some credit.

    But seriously, it's probably the Spark, which she does't have in her Clankrezia or Zola bodies.
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  18. - Top - End - #738
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    I really, really, really hope that we get rid of Lucrezia in Agatha's mind during this arc. This maternal possession has long since ceased to amuse. Even Martellus is more amusing by now, if nothing else then for the interactions with castle and Krosp.

  19. - Top - End - #739
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Less monologuing, more smacking!

    Unless she's distracting her on purpose.

  20. - Top - End - #740
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    Which probably means it's wrong and the Foglios are tricking us.



    On the other hand, they're up against a problem. They can't kill Lu, because she's in Agatha's body. Fighting with swords, all Zeetha could do was block and make attacks that weren't meant to actually hit. Unless she could knock the sword out of her hand. And the longer the fight went on, the greater the chance Lu would realize that and try to take advantage of it. Right now Agatha's friends are fighting for time for the Three Amigos to build the machine anew; talking to Lu, distracting her, is a good tactic. Especially since it gives Violetta a chance to get back on her feet.
    I see your point, but if Zeetha (instead of acknowledging Lucrezia’s skill and saying “you’re messing up, here’s why”) had simply goaded Lucrezia, saying “no, you’re not the equal to the blade-sibyls,” they’d probably still be sword fighting—which Zeetha is very good at and clearly winning by effectively stalling. Instead, it looks like Lucrezia is going to use the Spark—and that could be a much bigger problem. Even whipping up a simple loudspeaker might get everyone else utterly swarmed if the other team hasn’t finished plugging the British troops’ ears, and Lucrezia could presumably do much worse than hacking the comm system.

    Lucrezia has already been trying to take advantage of their reluctance to hurt Agatha, but right now she wasn’t really succeeding. Better to draw this attempt out as long as they could.

    Admittedly, that might be what Zeetha was trying to do, but if so she did poorly, in my opinion.
    Sincerely,
    NobleCuriosity

  21. - Top - End - #741
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    This isn't exactly out of character for Zeetha; she's previously blurted out information when she really should keep quiet. Still annoying that this is going to be dragged out some more.

  22. - Top - End - #742
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Eh, we haven't reached the end of this book yet. The time for the climax is going to be about the end of the year, barring more paper doll pages.

  23. - Top - End - #743
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    I just reread a bit and was suddenly more concerned about how Gil repeatedly insisted that he felt really odd when he got his dad zapped out of him.

    Tarvek was confident it worked, but Agatha helped build the machine. A fair bit ago, but it nonetheless it makes me nervous. I would have thought that Lucrezia would have activated any booby traps left in Gil’s head by now, but...I can imagine reasons why she wouldn’t. So let’s hope this doesn’t end with Tarvek having to fish Lucrezia out of two (biological) heads instead of one.

    Speaking of nonbiological heads, couldn’t he give the Anevka clank Lucrezia to Albia and just kill the Lucrezia in Agatha? It would presumably quicken the construction. It would also deny the queen some info on Agatha’s own life as well, which admittedly might be part of what she’s after, so it would certainly risk Albia’s hospitality some.
    Last edited by NobleCuriosity; 2019-10-18 at 08:53 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #744
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    Oh, I don't know ... Lucrezia has thrown away Zeetha's other sword (Zeetha is used to two swords), and Zeetha has been dealing with powerful sparks for a long time.

    And most of all, Zeetha is not alone. This is all making Lucrezia fouus on her, and with Lucrezia concentrating on her, Violetta is in a better position to make her moves.
    Since Zeetha stated that Lugatha is bad at hand-to-hand and that, in normal condition, she could punch her and knock her out, I assume that Lucrezia is using the sword she stole as insurance that Zeetha cannot get close enough to TKO her, while the sword still in Zeetha's hands is almost useless, because she cannot use it to strike, only as defence. Zeetha knowingly acting as a distraction seems probable.

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    Instead, it looks like Lucrezia is going to use the Spark—and that could be a much bigger problem.
    That's an interesting question. The matter of the physical component of the spark has been a secret for a while. The Baron was drilling holes into people to find out how it worked. And Tarvek suspected that Agatha had built machines with the spark. We don't know if Clanzia can use the spark, although she did have some fun with the hospital's instruments. But the Other would definitely be interested in Agatha's little spark machines.

    BTW, the spark machines are one of the reasons why I thought that Agatha is a sparks spark. The other one is that her spark friends were immediately following her and helping her on Castle Wulfenbach, as the Baron observed. This is the behaviour of minions before a spark. I still think that the theory works, but, if it ever was intended, it was put in the fridge some years ago and nothing came out of it.
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  25. - Top - End - #745
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    BTW, the spark machines are one of the reasons why I thought that Agatha is a sparks spark. The other one is that her spark friends were immediately following her and helping her on Castle Wulfenbach, as the Baron observed. This is the behaviour of minions before a spark. I still think that the theory works, but, if it ever was intended, it was put in the fridge some years ago and nothing came out of it.
    I dunno about the second. That appears to be the Spark hierarchy in action, as explained by Doctor Mittlemind. Sparks squabble like cats in a sack unless one of them is clearly the strongest, in which case they can be brought into line. The weak serve the strong, and a Heterodyne is instantly the strongest by default. Agatha has the added bonus of being charismatic, heroic, and a natural leader. Bill and Barry's reputation doesn't hurt either.

    This is why the Baron feared her so much - by simple virtue of being a Heterodyne, she has the ability to peel away his supporters. Her very existence threatened the Pax Europa.

    The sparky machines are something new. Something the Baron didn't know about when he talked about Agatha tearing Europa apart whether she intended to do so or not.

  26. - Top - End - #746
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Great! Nice job Zeetha. Now Lucratha will take off her locket and make a death ray!

    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    I just reread a bit and was suddenly more concerned about how Gil repeatedly insisted that he felt really odd when he got his dad zapped out of him.
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    Gil pretends his father has taken over, and while kissing Lucratha they grab her and strap her to the seperation device.
    “A long surcote of pers upon he hade, / And by his syde he baar a rusty blade.” - Chaucer

  27. - Top - End - #747
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Great! Nice job Zeetha. Now Lucratha will take off her locket and make a death ray!



    Spoiler
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    Gil pretends his father has taken over, and while kissing Lucratha they grab her and strap her to the seperation device.
    Spoiler
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    Actually, I suspect that Lucrezia will take off the locket and find that Agatha is a lot stronger than she used to be.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  28. - Top - End - #748
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post



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    Gil pretends his father has taken over, and while kissing Lucratha they grab her and strap her to the seperation device.
    An interesting idea, but I doubt it would work. Agatha found out that Tarvek had zapped the Baron our of Gil here (20190731): http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...1#.XauXIhYpAlQ

    I’d be surprised if Lucrezia wasn’t at least aware during that. She probably knows that would be a lie.

    That page also suggests that Gil can’t act well enough to pull it off. Even if he did, Lucrezia is “very good at having her fun and scheming at the same time (20190204):” http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...4#.XauYNxYpAlQ
    Sincerely,
    NobleCuriosity

  29. - Top - End - #749
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
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    Actually, I suspect that Lucrezia will take off the locket and find that Agatha is a lot stronger than she used to be.
    The locket is welded so it can't be removed. I suspect Von Zinzer came up with that simple yet effective solution.

  30. - Top - End - #750
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

    Right, why doesn't Lucrezia care about the locket any more?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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