Disrespectful People

[Bartmanhomer]

Some people are very disrespectful and ungrateful. When you try to help people and being very nice to them, they don't give you any respect in return and then they just want to stir up drama. Which happens to me a few weeks ago. I just don't understand why some people act this way. I'm sure this situation happens to everybody.

[snowblizz]

Some people are very disrespectful and ungrateful. When you try to help people and being very nice to them, they don't give you any respect in return and then they just want to stir up drama. Which happens to me a few weeks ago. I just don't understand why some people act this way.

Some people "get off" on that. It makes them feel bigger and better to push other's down.

[Bartmanhomer]

Some people "get off" on that. It makes them feel bigger and better to push other's down.

Knowing that type of behaviour is unacceptable and also condone bullying.

[veti]

You are being so vague, it's really very hard to say anything about your case.

But a couple of general notes I'd like to make.

One: other people may have very different ideas about what "helping them" looks like. What you think was help may have come across to them as patronising, disempowering, or even downright frustrating (because their true goal wasn't what you thought it was).

For instance, if someone was working through an exam paper and you gave them some hints to work out one of the answers, that's only "helpful" if you assume that their goal is to maximise their marks. But if they were more concerned with identifying their own weaknesses, it's extremely unhelpful.

Two: what sort of "respect" do you think you are owed? There's the kind of respect we (arguably) owe to everyone around us - that basically consists of not interfering in their affairs unless invited to do so. Or the kind where we show deference to others on the grounds that, in some specific sphere of action, they are "better" than us. For instance, you'll pay more attention to a doctor giving you health advice, than to some random person on the Internet. Or if the building is on fire, you'll probably accept the advice of fire wardens or firefighters as to how to get to safety.

[Bartmanhomer]

You are being so vague, it's really very hard to say anything about your case.

But a couple of general notes I'd like to make.

One: other people may have very different ideas about what "helping them" looks like. What you think was help may have come across to them as patronising, disempowering, or even downright frustrating (because their true goal wasn't what you thought it was).

For instance, if someone was working through an exam paper and you gave them some hints to work out one of the answers, that's only "helpful" if you assume that their goal is to maximise their marks. But if they were more concerned with identifying their own weaknesses, it's extremely unhelpful.

Two: what sort of "respect" do you think you are owed? There's the kind of respect we (arguably) owe to everyone around us - that basically consists of not interfering in their affairs unless invited to do so. Or the kind where we show deference to others on the grounds that, in some specific sphere of action, they are "better" than us. For instance, you'll pay more attention to a doctor giving you health advice, than to some random person on the Internet. Or if the building is on fire, you'll probably accept the advice of fire wardens or firefighters as to how to get to safety.

I don't want to say it anything too specific because it's against forum rules but I can assure you is nothing illegal.

[Xyril]

I don't want to say it anything too specific because it's against forum rules but I can assure you is nothing illegal.

Umm, I'm not sure that anybody here suggested anything illegal was going on, so this is coming off as an example of this.

Seriously though, I think the reason people were hoping for more details is in order to better understand the situation. If I said "If it weren't for Gary, my car wouldn't have been wrecked, and now he won't help me pay for a new one," and I ask people for advice here, it would be very hard for people to judge the situation, let alone give me any useful guidance, because my phrasing could mean many things. Maybe Gary borrowed my car, without my permission, and wrecked it. Maybe Gary was driving another car and got in an accident that was legally his fault. Maybe same situation, but it was legally my fault. Maybe I was driving Gary around, he told a great joke, and I hit a fire hydrant while laughing myself to tears.

The point is, there are many plausible scenarios that would make "If it weren't for Gary, my car wouldn't have been wrecked" a completely true statement, and depending on which specific one is true, it completely changes how people will judge Gary's behavior. As someone has specifically stated already, there are many ways in which (perfectly well-intentioned) help can be offered in a manner that most people would find problematic.

Also, with respect to board rules: If you're worried about the personal baggage rule, I think we've had enough posts with people asking for help about an unreasonable person that it's clear that doesn't violate this particular rule. If there is, for example, violence involved, I think you can talk about enough to allow people to make a reasonable judgment without getting anywhere near "graphic" levels of description.

And if you're worried about politics or religion, I'll just say that peoples views on those topics can be so varied and deeply held that it's probably quite easy for "help" involving one of those topics to (unintentionally) come off as inappropriate or offensive, which could explain a response that feels disrespectful or ungrateful.

[Knaight]

"Trying to help and being really nice" can have a lot of overlap with "getting in someone's face when they want to be left alone", especially when it's done by people who are bad with social cues. The latter can also hardly be expected to get a positive reaction, especially if the more positive end of that reaction spectrum (politely enduring and trying to drop hints that the other party should leave) fails and escalating to the less positive end is used - which gets back to the subject of people being bad with social cues.

This all gets especially notable in the context of repeated interactions. I've got a coworker who I generally handle with the feign polite disinterest strategy, but I have on very rare occasions gone blunter. Other coworkers have straight up commented that I'm nicer than they are for feigning polite disinterest for as long as I have - and that's in a context where I don't necessarily see any given coworker more than a few times a month, not counting email. I suspect you might be on the other end of this sort of interaction, where someone who doesn't like you had put up with you "trying to help and being really nice" for long enough and now they just can't.

You also mentioned gratitude. Helping when nobody asked you to and then expecting performative gratitude in a way that's obvious to the person you helped is obnoxious behavior.

[Bartmanhomer]

The reason was involved mystical which is why I don't want to say anymore because it's against forum rules.

[Xyril]

The reason was involved mystical which is why I don't want to say anymore because it's against forum rules.

I'm not going to lie. A part of me still sincerely wants to understand the situation and give you helpful advice to the best of my ability.

But now a part of me is also just really, really curious.

When you say "mystical" do you mean religious? I am not a mod, so I am not claiming any deeper knowledge than anyone else who has read the rules and watched them enforced, but I think the rules on forbidden topics only preclude conversations that would essentially beg folks substantively debate those issues. So something like, "so I was at the annual NRA jamboree and this guy really got in my face about how 5th edition was vastly superior to all the earlier stuff. How should I handle it?" might be okay because it tangentially mentions politics, but the topic to be debated is something unrelated. More importantly, it would be very easy to remove all the references to politics, because "So I was at some convention and a stranger approached me and aggressively started arguing how 5th edition was vastly superior. How should I have handled it?" gives enough context to have an informed conversation about the important issue.

So if it's mystical in the sense that--for example--you had a prophetic dream that told you to help this guy--then I think you can give us details about what sort of help you gave him, how well you know him, how long you've been trying to help, whether he's ever asked you or others for this kind of help, etc. without involving forbidden religion as a topic.

On the other hand, if there is absolutely no way to describe the nature of the help without implicating religion, (i.e. "This guy keeps saying his prayers to Thor wrong. I keep trying to help him, because he's accidentally praying to Hel every day, but instead of being grateful to me for preventing his eternal damnation he just tells our mutual friends that I'm an annoying meddler.") then there is a good chance that the points I brought up in my previous post apply, and the guy is very unhappy because you might be stepping on his deeply held beliefs, which could be very different from yours.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm not going to lie. A part of me still sincerely wants to understand the situation and give you helpful advice to the best of my ability.

But now a part of me is also just really, really curious.

When you say "mystical" do you mean religious? I am not a mod, so I am not claiming any deeper knowledge than anyone else who has read the rules and watched them enforced, but I think the rules on forbidden topics only preclude conversations that would essentially beg folks substantively debate those issues. So something like, "so I was at the annual NRA jamboree and this guy really got in my face about how 5th edition was vastly superior to all the earlier stuff. How should I handle it?" might be okay because it tangentially mentions politics, but the topic to be debated is something unrelated. More importantly, it would be very easy to remove all the references to politics, because "So I was at some convention and a stranger approached me and aggressively started arguing how 5th edition was vastly superior. How should I have handled it?" gives enough context to have an informed conversation about the important issue.

So if it's mystical in the sense that--for example--you had a prophetic dream that told you to help this guy--then I think you can give us details about what sort of help you gave him, how well you know him, how long you've been trying to help, whether he's ever asked you or others for this kind of help, etc. without involving forbidden religion as a topic.

On the other hand, if there is absolutely no way to describe the nature of the help without implicating religion, (i.e. "This guy keeps saying his prayers to Thor wrong. I keep trying to help him because he's accidentally praying to Hel every day, but instead of being grateful to me for preventing his eternal damnation he just tells our mutual friends that I'm an annoying meddler.") then there is a good chance that the points I brought up in my previous post apply, and the guy is very unhappy because you might be stepping on his deeply held beliefs, which could be very different from yours.

In a way yes. Religious reasons. That's all I have to say.

[Pirate ninja]

The Modly Roger: And given Forum Rules, that is indeed all you should say. It seems to me that this thread cannot go any further without delving into Inappropriate Topics, so I am going to close it here to prevent anyone from inadvertently crossing that line.