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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    I'm looking for general ranged attacks, not necessarily guns.

    So thank you for the information!
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    In that case there's tons of them, gaze attacks, all kinds of magic, breath weapons, and countless more. There's tons of relatively obscure daemons from the novels and RPGs who can do all kinds of stuff, and some vaguely fluffed ranged attacks have been part of the main daemon rules on and off.

    Throwing exploding skulls, extending limbs, vomiting out swarms of tiny daemons who eat people alive, turning people into candlewax or clouds of butterflies, spontaneous incineration, daemons can, as a race, do basically anything, and quite a lot of it works at a distance.

    In a more grimdark scenario (the RPGs being a prime example) they can also make people go mad and start clawing their own eyes out, go catatonic, flee in fear or just die of heart attacks merely by existing.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    I sure hope this hasn't been answered sometime before but...

    How exactly does your average planetary governor know how to tell psykers from non-psykers in a planet's population? And how do the Black Ships know if a world is doing its due diligence to get them?

    Would they use a percentage estimate? e.g. each time we visit we expect at least [x]% of your population to be psykers. Or are there witch-seeking tools (that actually work)?

    I initially thought that they would wait for an obvious manifestation and then swoop in, but considering what a single untrained psyker can do, that seems dangerous.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    I sure hope this hasn't been answered sometime before but...

    How exactly does your average planetary governor know how to tell psykers from non-psykers in a planet's population? And how do the Black Ships know if a world is doing its due diligence to get them?

    Would they use a percentage estimate? e.g. each time we visit we expect at least [x]% of your population to be psykers. Or are there witch-seeking tools (that actually work)?

    I initially thought that they would wait for an obvious manifestation and then swoop in, but considering what a single untrained psyker can do, that seems dangerous.
    Also, what's to stop a planet government to just outright kill anyone suspected of psykery? Would they get punished?

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    How exactly does your average planetary governor know how to tell psykers from non-psykers in a planet's population?
    Until the Psyker starts doing things, there is no difference.

    And how do the Black Ships know if a world is doing its due diligence to get them?
    They don't.
    But it's in the Governor's best interest to be as diligent as possible. Rogue Psykers can doom your planet.

    Would they use a percentage estimate?
    They use a Tithe system.
    "By the time we come back (every 50-100 years), you should have [x] Psykers, execute the rest."

    I initially thought that they would wait for an obvious manifestation and then swoop in...
    That's exactly what happens. The alternative is swoop in before they manifest...Which is like...Minority Report shenanigans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    Also, what's to stop a planet government to just outright kill anyone suspected of psykery? Would they get punished?
    Depends how backwards the planet is.
    If you accuse someone of being a witch, that might just be all it takes. Something, something, real world.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    I meant, if the government killed all psykers, kept record of said killings, and when the Black Ship comes a knocking they say "we just killed them all"

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    I sure hope this hasn't been answered sometime before but...

    How exactly does your average planetary governor know how to tell psykers from non-psykers in a planet's population? And how do the Black Ships know if a world is doing its due diligence to get them?

    Would they use a percentage estimate? e.g. each time we visit we expect at least [x]% of your population to be psykers. Or are there witch-seeking tools (that actually work)?

    I initially thought that they would wait for an obvious manifestation and then swoop in, but considering what a single untrained psyker can do, that seems dangerous.
    I recall in Descent of Angels or one of the other HH Dark Angels books they were discussing that Caliban had an unusually low incidence of Psykers, even compared to other worlds that executed their witches. So that at least implies that the Imperium knows how many psykers to expect from a planetary population even taking into account witch-burnings. But that was pre-heresy so who knows if they've maintained a consistent record to judge individual worlds by.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Failure to supply psykers when the Black Ships turn up, with a "we killed them all" excuse, might trigger the suspicion that they are attempting to starve the Emperor, like with this plot:


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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    It's reasonably common for a Planetary Governor to be a "King" of their own little fiefdom, in the sense that they are intellectually and culturally elevated above the general populace. There's some mentions of Governors of Feral or even Feudal Worlds who live in a spire or even orbiting space station with Imperium-equivalent technology, rather than live among the savages over which they have dominion.

    Which makes sense - it can't be possible to rule an entire planet using Dark Age-level technology for sending messages and the likes, and certainly not for interstellar administration when it comes to things like tithes. Governors get appointed from whoever holds the hereditary title, or otherwise holds favour with the Adeptus Terra so they're not particularly inclined to BE a Feral Worlder themselves.

    As such, they probably have contemporary knowledge of Imperial culture, up to and including employing their own Astropaths and Sanctioned Psykers. The easiest why to find out if someone is a Psyker is just to have another, confirmed Psyker look at them - get a lineup of suspected witches once every ten years or so, have your "Court Magician" look 'em over and send away the ones that are just mutants or otherwise unlucky enough to be picked up by the local PDF/Militia/Whatever.

    The governors who *are* Feral or Feudal Worlders and have comparable technology probably use a more informal process of bringing all of their suspected witches to the designated Black Ship pick-up area, and the Sisters just grab the ones who freak out and go insane when they walk by.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    As such, they probably have contemporary knowledge of Imperial culture, up to and including employing their own Astropaths and Sanctioned Psykers. The easiest why to find out if someone is a Psyker is just to have another, confirmed Psyker look at them - get a lineup of suspected witches once every ten years or so, have your "Court Magician" look 'em over and send away the ones that are just mutants or otherwise unlucky enough to be picked up by the local PDF/Militia/Whatever.
    If I recall (Dark Heresy splatbook, maybe?), this strategy is insane. As it requires the one or two Sanctioned Psykers on the planet to interact with every child born, ever. The Psykers are already way too busy dealing with the internal socio-political structures of the System/Sector to test every. Single. Child. That's why they go with the 'Wait 'til they manifest' approach, because pre-screening every child for Talent is more or less impractical, if not impossible.

    Because every child can't be screened this allows rogue Psykers to slip through the cracks, as certain people might have Talents related to hiding or can generate cults of personality, so that the Psyker in question doesn't get reported (or killed) by the citizenry.
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  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    If I recall (Dark Heresy splatbook, maybe?), this strategy is insane. As it requires the one or two Sanctioned Psykers on the planet to interact with every child born, ever. .
    That's why I said SUSPECTED Psykers. Some possibly-psychic event occurs, a person is picked up by the Arbitrators, and they're thrown in a dungeon for 11 months until a few days before the Black Ships are due to arrive.

    Due process? What's that? In any case, they're chained to all the other suspects and dragged into a hangar where a confirmed Psyker on the payroll has a look at them - genuinely psychic individuals are sent down one corridor and sent off world, the poor buggers who were just unlucky or falsely accused get taken down another corridor and shot in the head for wasting the Adeptus Terra's valuable time.

    Given that most psykers tend to come into their powers at puberty, there's probably no pressing need to screen children and especially babies. Yes, that's how rogue psykers come to be, because they get lost in the system or are just "not noticed" until it's too late, but... Grimdark!

    Alternatively, on technologically advanced worlds there's probably a technological way of testing people to see if they're psykers, through psy-resonant crystals or something that you can wave at them and see if they change colour to indicate 'psyker'. They have limiters for nulls and power-restraints for manifesting psykers, so there'e definitely some psy-relevant technology available to some planets. That seems kind of plausible - newborn babies taken away by the doctors and have a hearing test, a reflex test, innoculations and then SUBMIT TO THE WILL OF THE GOD EMPEROR YE WARP-SPAWNED ABOMINATION GAZE UNTO TO OCCULUS OF SCYING THAT WE MIGHT MAKE MANIFEST YOUR SIN-nope, this one's good, next baby please!
    Last edited by Wraith; 2020-05-15 at 09:39 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    If I recall (Dark Heresy splatbook, maybe?), this strategy is insane. As it requires the one or two Sanctioned Psykers on the planet to interact with every child born, ever. The Psykers are already way too busy dealing with the internal socio-political structures of the System/Sector to test every. Single. Child. That's why they go with the 'Wait 'til they manifest' approach, because pre-screening every child for Talent is more or less impractical, if not impossible.

    Because every child can't be screened this allows rogue Psykers to slip through the cracks, as certain people might have Talents related to hiding or can generate cults of personality, so that the Psyker in question doesn't get reported (or killed) by the citizenry.
    I think Wraith meant having their sanctioned psykers look over suspected/accused psykers rather than over every baby. You still need to weed out the people accused due to superstition from the actual psykers, and in the interim between black ship arrivals having your own psykers look over candidates is the most convenient option. Given how minor some psychic manifestations are many psykers can be mistaken for people who're just unusually lucky or unlucky or have an unusual knack for bonding with animals.

    So if John Smith gets hauled in for always rolling sixes in dice games and having a weird birthmark you need someone to tell if he's actually a psyker with that one minor power from DH which I have forgotten the name of or just a dice cheat with a birthmark.

    EDIT: Ninja'd by Wraith.


    It's also worth bringing up that some worlds never get visited by the black ships, they instead ship their psykers to more important planets that serve as hubs for resource gathering and distribution. It was a plot point in the Siege of Vraks FW stuff that Vraks held the collected psyker tithe of several planets who weren't important enough for a black ship to visit them.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2020-05-15 at 09:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    I wrote some background for my Space Marine faction, if anyone is interested.

    Ember
    The planet of Ember was, before the great crusade, a barely inhabitable blasted rock in orbit around an orange giant star. Ember was rich in mineral wealth and mined extensively during the Dark Age of Technology, but by the end of Old Night had been largely abandoned and its survivors - hardy stock, descendents of the mining clans - had reverted to a feudal technocratic state. The surface of Ember was blasted by solar radiation, and so it’s people lived primarily in the abandoned mining tunnels, fighting internicine battles with shortswords and iron gauntlets.
    The planet was brought to compliance remarkably efficiently early in the Great Crusade by the Iron Hands, who then returned some time later, lead by Ferrus Manus himself to defend it from an Ork Waaagh. The Orks were driven off the planet successfully, after a crucial battle in which Manus was saved from death at the hands of a gargant by a pyrrhic charge by the Emberian PDF. In return for this, Manus pledged the service of a single Iron Hand in perpetuity. This role was known as the Lord Steward, and though the first incumbent abandoned the position to join the scattered legions after the massacre at Istvaan V, the position was reinstated after the end of the heresy. For the next ten millennia the position of Lord Steward waxed and waned considerably in power and prestige, usually unrelatedly, with great heroes of the chapter acting as glorified totems, and disgraced junior marines acting as de facto planetary governors.

    The Ember Lords
    By the start of the Era Indomitus, Ember was a thriving mining world, with frequent mechanicus fleets carrying minerals and ores from its depths to the nearby forgeworlds. The population was booming, and so when the current Lord Steward, Terrek Rauth, made a petition to Guilleman, the old ties were reforged, and a torchbearing vessel appeared at Ember with a force of primaris Iron Hands hand-picked by Rauth himself. Rauth submitted to the Rubicon Primaris, and was promoted from assault sargeant to second captain of the newly-forged chapter in one fell swoop.
    The Ember Lords follow the fighting traditions of the people of Ember, preferring close-quarters tunnel and city fights: a form of warfare that has also lent itself well to ship-to-ship boarding actions. They field primarily Intercessor and Gravis-armored troops, with heavy firepower carried by dreadnoughts and hellblasters. A unit nearly unique to them is the Ember Immortals - armed with powered shields and blades, they cleave to the fighting styles of the breacher cadres of the original Iron Hands legion.
    The Ember Lords cleave approximately to the Codex Astartes, although they keep no regular Tenth Company, with small forces of Vanguard, scout marines, and the occasional speeder or flyer attached to each other company on an ad hoc basis, known as Firewalkers after the surface-dwelling mercenaries that scouted new routes for the feudal kings. Notable among them is Rauth’s second-in-command, Lieutenant Paris, seconded from the Fire Hawks to lead the nascent scout companies.
    One thing I'm going to change is precisely how the Immortals work - or, at least, I want to see how the new sword-and-shield primaris marines work out before committing to the conversion I want to do with some Medusan Immortals. I might get some Nemesis Daemon Halberds and have them with Power Spear and shield.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post

    One thing I'm going to change is precisely how the Immortals work - or, at least, I want to see how the new sword-and-shield primaris marines work out before committing to the conversion I want to do with some Medusan Immortals. I might get some Nemesis Daemon Halberds and have them with Power Spear and shield.
    Looks good! and fun fact: we're getting Veterans with shields and power swords soon-ish, and they are looking quite good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    Looks good! and fun fact: we're getting Veterans with shields and power swords soon-ish, and they are looking quite good.
    *clicks link*

    *sees first image*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    Looks good! and fun fact: we're getting Veterans with shields and power swords soon-ish, and they are looking quite good.
    Yeah - I want to do my own versions but it's nice to know there will be rules available.

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    "Well, White Scars, Ravenwing and other speed-obsessed Space Marines fans… now is your time to shine."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgh View Post
    Looks good! and fun fact: we're getting Veterans with shields and power swords soon-ish, and they are looking quite good.
    Master-crafted power swords at that.
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    The greatest bro trip in the galaxy continues!

    Enjoy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinius View Post
    The greatest bro trip in the galaxy continues!

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    ah so this is what WH40k's equivalent of the USA capitalism would look like as a planet. always wondered that.

    I like how the Jopallian Astartes have helmets similar to Spartan-II's from Halo. good pull.

    of course its not the part where they're in debt to someone they'll never see that ticks off Corax, its the fact that they're in debt with actual money. so he frees them from having to fight and die for crazy money grubbing overlords....so they fight and die for their shiny golden one. its surreal to see a Imperium WH40k character lead a revolution and treat it as a positive thing then go right back to fighting for the bloodiest regime imaginable where any change is seen as negative. like the fact that its played so straight as a positive is a meta joke on the nature of Warhammer 40,000 itself, because of all the evils of this universe to get mad over, Corvus Corax chose to do something about crippling monetary debt and rampant greed, but hey, one could make an argument that too much greed like that is excess and thus Slaanesh worship so I guess the execs were all Chaos worshippers.

    and of course, Vulkan lives! again! as always. of course its the ork personality but......eh he'll be fine.

    also check out the Russ video. Leman is apparently a psyker. and made the Dark Elves terrified before killing them for sixteen minutes by just thinking thoughts. it'd be a horror story if it weren't happening to the most horrible people in the WH40k universe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
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    ah so this is what WH40k's equivalent of the USA capitalism would look like as a planet. always wondered that.

    I like how the Jopallian Astartes have helmets similar to Spartan-II's from Halo. good pull.

    of course its not the part where they're in debt to someone they'll never see that ticks off Corax, its the fact that they're in debt with actual money. so he frees them from having to fight and die for crazy money grubbing overlords....so they fight and die for their shiny golden one. its surreal to see a Imperium WH40k character lead a revolution and treat it as a positive thing then go right back to fighting for the bloodiest regime imaginable where any change is seen as negative. like the fact that its played so straight as a positive is a meta joke on the nature of Warhammer 40,000 itself, because of all the evils of this universe to get mad over, Corvus Corax chose to do something about crippling monetary debt and rampant greed, but hey, one could make an argument that too much greed like that is excess and thus Slaanesh worship so I guess the execs were all Chaos worshippers.
    I had basically the same thought. Guess that rampant hypocrisy is a family trait.

    Also considering the other video,
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    Urist is canon to TTS AND survived Magnus deleting the old world, yeah! Kida hope there will be a Sigmar cameo one day.

    Also I liked enjoyed the red Dark Eldar. He was fun.
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    Wow! This is impressive! It's nice to see some Necrons at the front action here.

    Also, it looks like Space Marines and the Sisters of Battle are going to be on better terms coming up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Wow! This is impressive! It's nice to see some Necrons at the front action here.

    Also, it looks like Space Marines and the Sisters of Battle are going to be on better terms coming up?
    It's a decent enough cinematic. I'm glad they gave the Sisters a prominent role and even slipped in some Guard near the beginning. The gauss disintegration effect isn't 100% how I imagined it, but it's pretty good.

    I'm not sure if its possible to generalize the relationship between any branch of the Imperium and another. The only overt sign of antagonism I can remember is when a bunch of SOB in a novel are discussing the Astartes and one Sister refers to them as "abhumans", which is certainly a far cry from "angels". But that might have been intended as a personal view and not representative of the Sororitas as a whole.

    Did the Sistes of Battle purge a Chapter in one of the older fluff? I vaguely recall something like that. It makes sense, given the role of the Sisters and the autonomy of the Space Marines sometimes leading to eyebrow-raising practices.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    It's a decent enough cinematic. I'm glad they gave the Sisters a prominent role and even slipped in some Guard near the beginning. The gauss disintegration effect isn't 100% how I imagined it, but it's pretty good.

    I'm not sure if its possible to generalize the relationship between any branch of the Imperium and another. The only overt sign of antagonism I can remember is when a bunch of SOB in a novel are discussing the Astartes and one Sister refers to them as "abhumans", which is certainly a far cry from "angels". But that might have been intended as a personal view and not representative of the Sororitas as a whole.

    Did the Sistes of Battle purge a Chapter in one of the older fluff? I vaguely recall something like that. It makes sense, given the role of the Sisters and the autonomy of the Space Marines sometimes leading to eyebrow-raising practices.

    I am sure some chapters got purged by Sisters, and some Convent got purged by Marines

    Everyone killed some of everything. Except the Squats. The Squats never killed anything.

  25. - Top - End - #655
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Only because no one gave the poor guys a chance!

    Seriously, I feel like if they'd done a little more writing (and changed the name to something a tad more dignified) the Squats could have been an interesting faction.

    Dumb question, but how do the Sisters of Battle interact with psykers? Obviously they'd tolerate the absolutely necessary ones like Astropaths and Navigators, but what happens if a Sister herself manifests psyker stuff? Is she kicked out of the order? Purged with fire? Turned over to the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and retrained to be a Primaris Psyker or something, since there isn't a Sisters of Battle equivalent of a Space Marine Librarian? I get that the miracles they can manifest are kind of like psyker powers, and Living Saints and all that, but that seems more like the power of collective belief not unlike WAAAGH!!!
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  26. - Top - End - #656
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Only because no one gave the poor guys a chance!

    Seriously, I feel like if they'd done a little more writing (and changed the name to something a tad more dignified) the Squats could have been an interesting faction.

    Dumb question, but how do the Sisters of Battle interact with psykers? Obviously they'd tolerate the absolutely necessary ones like Astropaths and Navigators, but what happens if a Sister herself manifests psyker stuff? Is she kicked out of the order? Purged with fire? Turned over to the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and retrained to be a Primaris Psyker or something, since there isn't a Sisters of Battle equivalent of a Space Marine Librarian? I get that the miracles they can manifest are kind of like psyker powers, and Living Saints and all that, but that seems more like the power of collective belief not unlike WAAAGH!!!
    I think if the Sister in question admitted it, she'd be turned over to the Black Ships. If she resisted in any way, she'd likely be accused of heresy and witchcraft and then burned.

    Mind you, actually being a Sister might make figuring them out as a psyker to be really hard. They hear prophetic voices? Not exactly uncommon for Sisters. Random things happen to their benefit? It's the hand of the Emperor protecting them. Uncontrollable Psychic phenomenon? Sisters of Battle have a ton of anti-psyker equipment that might end up suppressing that. Daemonic Possession? Again, Sisters of Battle routinely cover themselves in holy wards and the like. Even as a psyker, they'd be harder to possess then the average person.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Dumb question, but how do the Sisters of Battle interact with psykers? Obviously they'd tolerate the absolutely necessary ones like Astropaths and Navigators, but what happens if a Sister herself manifests psyker stuff? Is she kicked out of the order? Purged with fire? Turned over to the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and retrained to be a Primaris Psyker or something, since there isn't a Sisters of Battle equivalent of a Space Marine Librarian? I get that the miracles they can manifest are kind of like psyker powers, and Living Saints and all that, but that seems more like the power of collective belief not unlike WAAAGH!!!
    An active Sister that suddenly started manifesting psyker talents would probably be captured, interrogated, and eventually executed, because the only way that is likely to happen is if they had contact with a Chaos critter or artifact that corrupted them and they didn't report it correctly. If they did report it correctly, they're only probably going to get executed, and the person who has to do it will probably be a bit regretful about having to do it.

    There should basically never be a case where a 'latent' psyker manages to get through recruitment and training without having been already identified as a psyker and routed to the appropriate training regimens/departments of the Imperium; it's one of the things they screen for pretty thoroughly.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    If they did report it correctly, they're only probably going to get executed, and the person who has to do it will probably be a bit regretful about having to do it.
    That's why you have them execute themselves. Then all the living can praise her for being a martyr and simply be proud of her.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Seriously, I feel like if they'd done a little more writing (and changed the name to something a tad more dignified) the Squats could have been an interesting faction.
    They kind of did. In the previous edition, the Tau's fluff said that they had a vassal race named the Demiurg who were short, broad humanoids who excelled in mining and salvage operations.... So, Space Dwarfs..... whose homeworld was eaten by a Hive Fleet. The Greater Good welcomed them as refugees, so now they live somewhere near Tau churning out tanks and similar technology. They look a bit like Kharadron Overlords, albeit more industrial and space-y than steampunk-y.

    They're not *officially* Squats in that GW has absolutely said that's what they are, but the Demiurg's backstory matches that of what was confirmed, and they have more than a few similarities in appearance, ability, etc. Really would have been nice if GW had made a bigger thing about Tau auxiliary units apart from Kroot, I think.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Demiurg were described as xenos, though, not abhumans.
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