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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Okay. I just heard someone refer to Angron as the "Harmless". They said that Angron was such a disappointment on so many levels that he practically fails at anything he tries at that he said it's almost comical, without getting into too much detail. Anyone care to elaborate for me?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    You sure they didn't mean Abbadon? There's memes about Abbadon being 'Armless', a combined joke about his Tabletop model being poorly balanced and his memetically bad track record in taking over the galaxy.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Nope. They definitely talked about Angron in the hypothetical war of Armageddon. Because as you know, there were only 2 invasions of Armageddon, and they were both from orks.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    They're probably expecting more from Angron than anyone else is. He's the Daemon Primarch of Khorne, his objectives and goals begin and end with 'kill EVERYTHING', and each of his manifestations has accomplished that in spades.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Okay. I just heard someone refer to Angron as the "Harmless". They said that Angron was such a disappointment on so many levels that he practically fails at anything he tries at that he said it's almost comical, without getting into too much detail. Anyone care to elaborate for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    You sure they didn't mean Abbadon? There's memes about Abbadon being 'Armless', a combined joke about his Tabletop model being poorly balanced and his memetically bad track record in taking over the galaxy.
    This. Whomever it was is either just making up their own thing or talking about Abby and got the name wrong. The level of failure in Angron is pretty high (the only primarch not to conquor his homeworld), but it's equally high in Magnus and Abaddon too. There's also enough retcon around Abaddon that it's not really accurate anymore and his new model doesn't require pinning, so mostly it's just decade old memes for memes sake, which is a bit too common in 40k to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Nope. They definitely talked about Angron in the hypothetical war of Armageddon. Because as you know, there were only 2 invasions of Armageddon, and they were both from orks.
    To be fair, he was partly responsible for getting the woofs in trouble. Theoretically. That's a win in my book.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    This. Whomever it was is either just making up their own thing or talking about Abby and got the name wrong. The level of failure in Angron is pretty high (the only primarch not to conquor his homeworld), but it's equally high in Magnus and Abaddon too. There's also enough retcon around Abaddon that it's not really accurate anymore and his new model doesn't require pinning, so mostly it's just decade old memes for memes sake, which is a bit too common in 40k to be honest.
    I thought Mortarion also failed to conquer his homeworld (though only just barely).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Okay, I have a scenario for you all. Let's imagine you find yourself teleported to Terra in the 30k millennium. You find that the Horus heresy has not occurred yet, (but the exact time I'll leave it up to you). My challenge is, how would you try to get an audience with the Emperor to warn him about the Horus Heresy, and what would you suggest the Emperor do to avoid this travesty that is to take place? Keep in mind, you arrive literally as a no one. All you show up in is the clothes on your back and all the knowledge of the warhammer setting that you do now.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Well, with all the foreknowledge you could fake being psychic, any mind-reading would show you do have a ton of info stuck in your skull. But then again, it didnt go well for the poor guy in Outcast Dead.

    I wouldnt actually try to prevent the Heresy though; I'd focus on preventing Isstvan V. Its not like the Emperor could've done anything about it after Davin anyways, and even if so Lorgar was far gone at the time, and Angron was dying slowly anyways. However, if you could prevent 3 legions from getting blasted for nothing, considering how close everything was at the end, I'd say Horus would be screwed. Either that or get word to Guilliman about the attack on the muster on Calth.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    The highest impact move may be to get to Magnus before he tries to warn the Emperor.

    No Leman Russ getting stuck way out in nowhere space, Loyalist Thousand Sons, other Legions getting a warning... Oh, and an unbroken Webway. That might make a small difference to the future, or something.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Misery Esquire View Post
    The highest impact move may be to get to Magnus before he tries to warn the Emperor.

    No Leman Russ getting stuck way out in nowhere space, Loyalist Thousand Sons, other Legions getting a warning... Oh, and an unbroken Webway. That might make a small difference to the future, or something.
    Wasnt the whole point of the Emperor stabbing Ra with future!Abaddon's sword that he will never be able to escape from the demon of the first murder, and as such humanity will eventually be destroyed by the warp echo of our own violent nature? I felt that was pretty insightful, all things considered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Well, with all the foreknowledge you could fake being psychic, any mind-reading would show you do have a ton of info stuck in your skull. But then again, it didnt go well for the poor guy in Outcast Dead.

    I wouldnt actually try to prevent the Heresy though; I'd focus on preventing Isstvan V. Its not like the Emperor could've done anything about it after Davin anyways, and even if so Lorgar was far gone at the time, and Angron was dying slowly anyways. However, if you could prevent 3 legions from getting blasted for nothing, considering how close everything was at the end, I'd say Horus would be screwed. Either that or get word to Guilliman about the attack on the muster on Calth.
    step 2 of faking being a psychic: you are either killed for heresy or brainwashed.(step 1 is people discovering you are a psychic and trying to kill you because they are scared or capturing you)
    Last edited by noob; 2019-11-05 at 03:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    You find that the Horus heresy has not occurred yet, (but the exact time I'll leave it up to you). My challenge is, how would you try to get an audience with the Emperor to warn him about the Horus Heresy, and what would you suggest the Emperor do to avoid this travesty that is to take place?
    Rock up to the Imperial Palace.

    You have to let me in, I'm here to see the Emperor!
    Custodes: You what, mate?
    You don't understand. Horus is eeevuuul!
    Custodes: If you say one more thing about the Warmaster, we've gonna have a problem.
    I have visions from the future, Horus is gonna kill everyone.
    Custodes: We have a Blue Alert. Unsecured Psyker.
    *Custodian Guard casts Guardian Spear*

    Seems accurate to what would happen.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-11-05 at 03:36 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    spoilers
    Might want some spoiler tags there mate, there could very well be a few people who haven't got that far in the heresy yet.

    I'm fairly sure you've wildly misinterpreted the reason behind it, but the bulk is still spoilers nonetheless.

    Re: what if:

    I have no idea how anyone would think any of the "what if you were transported to the warhammer universe" ideas would ever end with anything but "and then s/he died horribly, unnoticed by the galaxy or anyone in it."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Re: what if:

    I have no idea how anyone would think any of the "what if you were transported to the warhammer universe" ideas would ever end with anything but "and then s/he died horribly, unnoticed by the galaxy or anyone in it."
    Pretty much. I'm showing up as a nobody? Then I have literally nothing to my name. So I'm not going to get an audience with the Emperor pretty much ever. In fact, survival itself is going to be nigh impossible. My best bet is to join the Imperial Guard, and then hope that I'm lucky enough to survive. Or early enough to get shipped far away from Terra before the war begins.

    Though if I could choose a point of intervention, it would be when Guilliman forced the Legions to break apart into Chapters.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    So I haven't read that much of the Horus Heresy books yet, but personally I'd try to tackle things at the root of the problem and try to prevent the corruption of Horus himself. Based on the books, that really seemed to be an event that teetered on a knife's edge, and could theoretically have been prevented. Even fi some other legions fell, keeping the Luna Wolves in play on the loyalist side would have made a big difference.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Well, with all the foreknowledge you could fake being psychic, any mind-reading would show you do have a ton of info stuck in your skull. But then again, it didnt go well for the poor guy in Outcast Dead.
    "Fake being psychic" only works up until the point where you meet another psyker. Pretend all you like, but you're a blunt and there's nothing you can do to stop that guy pulling your soul out through your chakras.

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Wasnt the whole point of the Emperor stabbing Ra with future!Abaddon's sword that he will never be able to escape from the demon of the first murder, and as such humanity will eventually be destroyed by the warp echo of our own violent nature? I felt that was pretty insightful, all things considered.
    I like that theory. You could even go so far as to say that the Daemon trying to kill the Emperor, is an allusion to the overall plot of the book, or the meta-plot of the Heresy itself.
    The Daemon, a human-created warp entity, nearly killed the Emperor and all of Mankind's hope - just as the Warp itself will doom humanity now that their last chance to control the webway was ruined. The Emperor couldn't prevent that doom or his own; only send it away and post-pone it until some unseen point in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misery Esquire
    The highest impact move may be to get to Magnus before he tries to warn the Emperor.
    I think this is what I would go for. Of all the Primarchs, Magnus is the one who might actually listen to a guy who turned up on Prospero and starting telling everyone "I can see into the future".

    You wouldn't get within a thousand miles of the Emperor or Horus, and they wouldn't listen to you even if you could, but approach an amiable member the Corvidae cult and prove that you know what you're talking about? There's a reasonable chance that you could eventually work your way up through Amon, to Ahriman, and then to Magnus who might at least be curious to hear about someone who could provably predict future events.

    Alternatively... Hope you land a little further back from M30.000, somewhere around M29.700, so that you can murder Kor Phaeron and Erebus before the are made into Astartes.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    You wouldn't get within a thousand miles of the Emperor or Horus, and they wouldn't listen to you even if you could, but approach an amiable member the Corvidae cult and prove that you know what you're talking about? There's a reasonable chance that you could eventually work your way up through Amon, to Ahriman, and then to Magnus who might at least be curious to hear about someone who could provably predict future events.
    The problem is that the scenario says that you're on Terra. So yes, you feasibly could get within a thousand miles of the Emperor. Except, unfortunately, you have to go a thousand miles on foot. Even Jaq Draco, who even managed to have a conversation with the Emperor, back when canon was way loose, still took several weeks, a healthy dose of psychic providence, what amounts to Psychic Paper, and also he had an Inquisitorial Rosette. And he still almost died several times in the Imperial Palace.

    Jaq Draco was somebody, and he barely make it to The Emperor. If you try to get to The Emperor without any tools or abilities?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Emperor? Horus?

    No. Go to the Interex. Ask them to hide or destroy their Anathames and explain the whole situation so they're prepared upon meeting Horus.

    Overall they seemed far more reasonable than anyone in the Imperium would be about it given they recognize the threat of Chaos.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    No. Go to the Interex.
    You're on Terra with no possessions and the goal is to reach The Emperor.
    Going to the Interex does not achieve that goal.

    If the intent is to stop the Heresy, Wraith already said it; Kill Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron. Ideally, both. Unfortunately, depending on the timeframe, you might have to kill Lorgar himself, too.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You're on Terra with no possessions and the goal is to reach The Emperor.
    Going to the Interex does not achieve that goal.

    If the intent is to stop the Heresy, Wraith already said it; Kill Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron. Ideally, both. Unfortunately, depending on the timeframe, you might have to kill Lorgar himself, too.
    In that case. Find a reasonably public place and start shouting about beings in the warp. Entities of phenomenal cosmic power. Avoid getting violent and wait for the secret police to come for me. Whereupon I go quietly and tell the story to the nice men in the Inquisition thanks to me shouting about state secrets and most assuredly do not lead with 'Horus Is going to turn evil.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You're on Terra with no possessions and the goal is to reach The Emperor.
    Going to the Interex does not achieve that goal.

    If the intent is to stop the Heresy, Wraith already said it; Kill Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron. Ideally, both. Unfortunately, depending on the timeframe, you might have to kill Lorgar himself, too.
    'weakest Primarch' is as deceiving as 'weakest MMA three-times champion'. Sure, in a competition of demigods he might not be all that, but how exactly are you killing a nigh-inmortal superhuman? Kor Phaeron / Erebus were rats, but even pre-astartes they were already powerful figures, otherwise they wouldnt have been able to hide the Colchis cults from Lorgar's purge, so getting to them would be problematic. And both were already corrupted by Chaos, so there could be sorcery to deal with.

    No sneaking into the Imperial Palace either; even Custodes themselves have a hard time doing it, and they probably have the freaking place memorized.

    In that case. Find a reasonably public place and start shouting about beings in the warp. Entities of phenomenal cosmic power. Avoid getting violent and wait for the secret police to come for me. Whereupon I go quietly and tell the story to the nice men in the Inquisition thanks to me shouting about state secrets and most assuredly do not lead with 'Horus Is going to turn evil.'
    This is the Imperium. There is no secret police. You'd be very publicly and very loudly beaten to death, because sneaking around might be scary, but brutal repression in plain sight is even scarier, and the Imperium is all about fearing what you see, thus, rainbow-colored astartes with huge ass banners.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2019-11-05 at 10:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    If the intent is to stop the Heresy, Wraith already said it; Kill Erebus and/or Kor Phaeron. Ideally, both. Unfortunately, depending on the timeframe, you might have to kill Lorgar himself, too.
    I dont think thats possible. Stopping the Heresy that is. Or at least not just by bumping off a couple of old men.
    Because the Heresy is something planned by the gods of chaos. Lets just assume you succede at killing Erebus and Kor.
    Then Tzeench willl go "cursed! that was #456 H: Unexpected time traveler messing stuff up, that means contingency #765 D or K"

    But if you want to swing the outcome of the Heresy, then i do thing Magnus is likely your best bet.
    It should not be impossible to prevent his fall, as well as the messup at the golden throne.

    Personally i would not even try to stop the Heresy though. Since its IMO the best possible outcome for the Galaxy.
    If i could i would like to stop the Emperor, but i cant see any possible way of doing that.

    This is the Imperium. There is no secret police. You'd be very publicly and very loudly beaten to death, because sneaking around might be scary, but brutal repression in plain sight is even scarier, and the Imperium is all about fearing what you see, thus, rainbow-colored astartes with huge ass banners.
    Relevant point here. We are talking about a time around 30k. Thats around the middle of the Emperors attempt at a age of reason.
    So your more likely to just get dragged off to the nearest mental health asylum. Where kind and well meaning people will likely try and help you.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2019-11-05 at 10:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    'weakest Primarch' is as deceiving as 'weakest MMA three-times champion'. Sure, in a competition of demigods he might not be all that, but how exactly are you killing a nigh-inmortal superhuman? Kor Phaeron / Erebus were rats, but even pre-astartes they were already powerful figures, otherwise they wouldnt have been able to hide the Colchis cults from Lorgar's purge, so getting to them would be problematic. And both were already corrupted by Chaos, so there could be sorcery to deal with.

    No sneaking into the Imperial Palace either; even Custodes themselves have a hard time doing it, and they probably have the freaking place memorized.



    This is the Imperium. There is no secret police. You'd be very publicly and very loudly beaten to death, because sneaking around might be scary, but brutal repression in plain sight is even scarier, and the Imperium is all about fearing what you see, thus, rainbow-colored astartes with huge ass banners.
    This is the Pre Heresy Imperium where Daemons are state secrets rather than Heresy. They would probably want to know how I found out about them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    I mean, it doesn't have to be on Terra. I'll expand the parameters where you can decide where and when during the heresy you would pop into existence. Just curious as to how you would try.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Then the Interex home planet. Probably still can't stop the Heresy but stand a decent chance of surviving long enough to die of old age
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Then the Interex home planet. Probably still can't stop the Heresy but stand a decent chance of surviving long enough to die of old age
    If you dont stop the Heresy you wont live to an old age, because Horus will kill you before it.

    This is the Pre Heresy Imperium where Daemons are state secrets rather than Heresy. They would probably want to know how I found out about them.
    There is no Inquisition in the pre-heresy Imperium. And the pre-heresy Imperium doesnt take well to talks of the supernatural, because it doesnt exist, its not an state secret, its oficially denied from the Emperor downwards. So you'd probably still die, albeit slowlier. This is the same Imperium that burned churches and won Terra back by out-atrocying techno barbarians and dictators, it was never a reasonable or nice place.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Personally i would not even try to stop the Heresy though. Since its IMO the best possible outcome for the Galaxy.
    If i could i would like to stop the Emperor, but i cant see any possible way of doing that.
    I kinda agree with this. Humanity under the Emperor was a all consuming swarm that went out to eradicate all alien life. I don't exactly want it to win. Mind you, I don't want it to lose either. Chaos is just as bad if not worse.

    So I'd want the Heresy to happen to shatter the Imperium, but be in a point to intervene so that it is in a better place afterwards. That's why I suggested preventing Guilliman from breaking the Legions up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I kinda agree with this. Humanity under the Emperor was a all consuming swarm that went out to eradicate all alien life. I don't exactly want it to win. Mind you, I don't want it to lose either. Chaos is just as bad if not worse.

    So I'd want the Heresy to happen to shatter the Imperium, but be in a point to intervene so that it is in a better place afterwards. That's why I suggested preventing Guilliman from breaking the Legions up.
    But how? Dorn himself had to cull his Legion to prevent another civil war, what exactly would you do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    But how? Dorn himself had to cull his Legion to prevent another civil war, what exactly would you do?
    More civil wars but intact legions ruling their own areas is potentially preferable.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XVI: Where the Ordnance is Hand-Delivered!

    I doubt there's any way to get around the Heresy being predestined, if nothing else the gods have shown the ability to send people back in time to enable the heresy to happen, without which they couldn't have sent someone back in time and so on, without even getting into the in-universe attempts by psykers who could see the future to prevent it all failing.

    Popping out into the galaxy with a plan that won't work will just lead to nothing, having a plan that would work just means Argel-Tal or someone similar pops out of a time rift and pulps your skull. Or any of a number of other acts of divine intervention nuke you from orbit.
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