Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

[Lamech]

No its still not realistic. For all his resources they are still insignificant compared to what USA, China and EU can afford to throw after it.
And of course they are the very least want to figure out what makes supers. But when thats a mystery, then it doesnt make sense anyone know how to make them.

Deus appears to have significantly better resources when it comes to the supernatural and alien tech. He just raided a vault full of powerful magic artifacts, has an eldritch abomination as his body guard, built a stargate, just had an alien shopping trip etc.

Question is why an Alari, or for that matter any other powerful alien would go along with something like that. Deus is only important on earth.

They don't have too. The artifact doesn't return you to a previous state, but appears to allow at will alterations.

Very likely something Deus wont mess around with. Since it might more or less be seen as open declaration of war by the Twilight council.

The dude robbed their vault! And Archon already passes off werewolves and magic users as supers.

We know Sciona could do so. But she were clearly some sort of elite operative. Their equivalent to a super/mage.

She's clearly a skilled mage, but Deus almost certainly has skilled mages. Plus, Deus knew what Sciona's evil plans were, so he probably knows how she did it.

Some Alari dont even have wings. And Deus dont have them as such. They are a independent faction he is trading with.

They are a bunch of alien refugees that are resource poor and knowledge rich. Furthermore, Deus becomes a more valuable trading partner the better his knowledge/tech/magic base. They have the choices of:
1) Trade away their highly limited technical/magical gadgets for the low tech trash Earth can provide
OR
2) Tell Deus how to make some gadgets, get a pile of low tech Earth trash AND get a pile of whatever they've taught Deus to do while not actually giving anything up.

[Rogar Demonblud]

First, he DOES have that fancy toy that turned Sciona (back) into an Alari.

He let Cthilia claim that for her own makeover, just like it appears he let the other members of Sciona's raid team grab what they wanted. Easier than forcibly grabbing it to sell and he gets much the same results for providing it to them.

[lord_khaine]

Well i stand corrected on the Alari front. Deus has in fact hired a handful of them. Though this one is another without wings.
I suspect Sciona were about as representative of the average Alari as Math is of the average human.

Deus appears to have significantly better resources when it comes to the supernatural and alien tech. He just raided a vault full of powerful magic artifacts, has an eldritch abomination as his body guard, built a stargate, just had an alien shopping trip etc.

Does he? im not that certain. If you raid a biochemical laboratory, would -you- be able to make a vaccine for the current virus?
Or just have a lot of almost priceless instruments you could do a few things with if you found the manual?

Same with Vale. Why should she (it?) know anything more about supers than Joe random off the street?
Though as such. What Vale actually is remains a mystery. She might just be a super with a weird power.

Also its less he build a stargate. And more he stole one. The key component of it remains the sky-ripper thing.
Without it the rest is useless.

They don't have too. The artifact doesn't return you to a previous state, but appears to allow at will alterations.

Your misunderstanding what your quoting. Im asking why a super powered alien would want to have its body changed in an almost irreversible way?

The dude robbed their vault! And Archon already passes off werewolves and magic users as supers.

No. Sciona, a known murderer on top of the Twilight Council's hit list robbed the vault. She even left her calling card in the form of a murder golem.
Deus, the fameous head of Machina industries were at a party then, so could not have been involved directly.

And who are Archons werewolf? I dont recall them using any. There are Pixel who are part of Arc-Light.
But she is less of a super hero, and more of a investigator. Same with the rest of their magic users. Except for Dabbler who are a special case.

She's clearly a skilled mage, but Deus almost certainly has skilled mages. Plus, Deus knew what Sciona's evil plans were, so he probably knows how she did it.

This doesnt make any sense. Why would Deus knowing that Sciona planned to open a portal back to her Empire,
a simple bit of sociological information (Alari are imperialistic dickbags), mean that he knew how she replicated super powers (likely advanced blood magic)?

Else. Its not even certain that Deus has mages in his employ.
Or at least not that he has any who are noteworthy.

[Kantaki]

I like Deus new secretary. She's funny.
Might be the angry shouting face she makes the whole time.

[Lamech]

Your misunderstanding what your quoting. Im asking why a super powered alien would want to have its body changed in an almost irreversible way?

You would make the changes to a human. You could easily find a human who would be willing to change their body in an almost irreversible way. Obviously, we don't know the exact abilities of the artifact, but it sure looks like it could be used to give a human all sorts of cool upgrades.

This doesnt make any sense. Why would Deus knowing that Sciona planned to open a portal back to her Empire,
a simple bit of sociological information (Alari are imperialistic dickbags), mean that he knew how she replicated super powers (likely advanced blood magic)?

It is possible that he knew the Alari are imperialistic dickbags, but that would indicate either a pretty good understanding of Sciona personally, or an information source about the galaxy at large. Both would have pretty serious implications about how much Deus knows.

To the point, he knew when she was going to rob the vault, and he knew the tools she needed to get back to her world. That requires an accurate understanding of her capabilities, which would mean he probably knows stuff like "give super powers with advanced blood magic". (It also indicates he's pretty heavily penetrated the Twilight Council). That gives him a massive advantage compared to everyone else, since he knows it is possible AND he knows the starting point is Alari blood magic.

P.S. I didn't mean "how" as in "the exact procedure and all the details", but "how" as in "she used blood magic and super blood"

[HandofShadows]

The impression that I get is that Vale is an alien considering how she acted at The Fracture.

[Lamech]

I feel like "merit based" and "cut-throat" aren't particularly compatible things. (Unless the merit you are talking about is sabotage, murder and politics.) If you want a top tier physician you'll probably want someone who spent a huge chunk of their time studying, practicing etc. and also is highly talented at being a physician, but if a society is remarkably cutthroat our hypothetical diligent, talented physician might lose the job/promotion to a cutthroat, mediocre physician who sabotages/murders Talented Physician.

[Traab]

I feel like "merit based" and "cut-throat" aren't particularly compatible things. (Unless the merit you are talking about is sabotage, murder and politics.) If you want a top tier physician you'll probably want someone who spent a huge chunk of their time studying, practicing etc. and also is highly talented at being a physician, but if a society is remarkably cutthroat our hypothetical diligent, talented physician might lose the job/promotion to a cutthroat, mediocre physician who sabotages/murders Talented Physician.

If you have 5 doctors with a great reputation for curing illness and saving lives, which do you pick? Thats a trick question, you dont pick the one who was suddenly arrested for child porn, the two who committed suicide, or the 4th who wasnt able to make it to the interview because his cars brakes gave out. You hire the 5th doctor who had none of those terrible things mysteriously happen just a day ago. If the ability to carefully stab people in the back is one you grow up with as a part of your culture its hardly unusual for people to be good at it without sacrificing everything else. I doubt its an elective course at the local high school, its just something you grow up dealing with. Like learning how to interact with your peers.

[sihnfahl]

The impression that I get is that Vale is an alien considering how she acted at The Fracture.

Vale appears to be of eldritch origins.

[Lamech]

If you have 5 doctors with a great reputation for curing illness and saving lives, which do you pick? Thats a trick question, you dont pick the one who was suddenly arrested for child porn, the two who committed suicide, or the 4th who wasnt able to make it to the interview because his cars brakes gave out. You hire the 5th doctor who had none of those terrible things mysteriously happen just a day ago. If the ability to carefully stab people in the back is one you grow up with as a part of your culture its hardly unusual for people to be good at it without sacrificing everything else. I doubt its an elective course at the local high school, its just something you grow up dealing with. Like learning how to interact with your peers.

The issue is with something that requires huge amounts of study and talent (such as a physician) you'll find yourself lucky to have five qualified applicants, let alone five top tier applicants. You certainly won't get five people who are all excellently and equally well qualified.

[Traab]

The issue is with something that requires huge amounts of study and talent (such as a physician) you'll find yourself lucky to have five qualified applicants, let alone five top tier applicants. You certainly won't get five people who are all excellently and equally well qualified.

No they wont be exactly equal but in a society thats based on both merit and back stabbery you will still get a number of applicants that are all fully qualified to do the job and the person who gets the job is the one who managed to arrange things properly without getting caught. And in all honesty, the back stabbing is probably going to be an internal thing among those who are already working there looking for promotion. Basically an amped up version of what we humans already do to each other.

[Max_Killjoy]

No they wont be exactly equal but in a society thats based on both merit and back stabbery you will still get a number of applicants that are all fully qualified to do the job and the person who gets the job is the one who managed to arrange things properly without getting caught. And in all honesty, the back stabbing is probably going to be an internal thing among those who are already working there looking for promotion. Basically an amped up version of what we humans already do to each other.

It results in time and energy and effort wasted on backstabbing instead of whatever else it is they're supposedly doing.

And statistically it means you get the best backstabber more often than you get the best physician.

[Keltest]

It results in time and energy and effort wasted on backstabbing instead of whatever else it is they're supposedly doing.

And statistically it means you get the best backstabber more often than you get the best physician.

And when it turns out that you suck at being a physician, all the angry people who need a doctor are going to come and murder you for killing all the competent ones.

Better to advance in a field that youre actually good in.

[lord_khaine]

You would make the changes to a human. You could easily find a human who would be willing to change their body in an almost irreversible way. Obviously, we don't know the exact abilities of the artifact, but it sure looks like it could be used to give a human all sorts of cool upgrades.

Ah like that. Hmm yes there are almost -no- limit to the amount of dumb things a human is ready to do.
I also just dont think its likely that it can be used to upgrade enough for it to matter.

Yes you can perhaps make someone who are twice as strong as a human of equal mass, with twice the reaction speed
and 4 times the endurance.

Someone like that would still not have a guaranteed win against Peggy, even without the sniper rifle.

It is possible that he knew the Alari are imperialistic dickbags, but that would indicate either a pretty good understanding of Sciona personally, or an information source about the galaxy at large. Both would have pretty serious implications about how much Deus knows.

To the point, he knew when she was going to rob the vault, and he knew the tools she needed to get back to her world. That requires an accurate understanding of her capabilities, which would mean he probably knows stuff like "give super powers with advanced blood magic". (It also indicates he's pretty heavily penetrated the Twilight Council). That gives him a massive advantage compared to everyone else, since he knows it is possible AND he knows the starting point is Alari blood magic.

P.S. I didn't mean "how" as in "the exact procedure and all the details", but "how" as in "she used blood magic and super blood"

Suposedly its not that big of a secret who the Alari are?
With the amount of Alien tourism earth see, that should not be impossibly hard to learn.

And giving herself super powers were Sciona's secret ace in the hole. She did not reveal it before her lair were assulted.
So likely a lot easier to hide that, that how she were planning to rob the vault. Only 1 person likely know of the super power injection.
But there were whole team involved in the vault hesit.

Meanwhile i cant see how having sources in the Twilight council is better than actually working with them.
Especially not since the Council by their admission are clueless on the nature of supers.

The issue is with something that requires huge amounts of study and talent (such as a physician) you'll find yourself lucky to have five qualified applicants, let alone five top tier applicants. You certainly won't get five people who are all excellently and equally well qualified.

This i meanwhile agree with.

No they wont be exactly equal but in a society thats based on both merit and back stabbery you will still get a number of applicants that are all fully qualified to do the job and the person who gets the job is the one who managed to arrange things properly without getting caught. And in all honesty, the back stabbing is probably going to be an internal thing among those who are already working there looking for promotion. Basically an amped up version of what we humans already do to each other.

Its as such already problem enough in our society. Often the technical skills to perform a given scientific job, is different from the skills you need to get said job.
Thats only going to get worse the sharper the backstabbery gets.

[Forum Explorer]

Its as such already problem enough in our society. Often the technical skills to perform a given scientific job, is different from the skills you need to get said job.
Thats only going to get worse the sharper the backstabbery gets.

This is very true, and office politics is a thing in many different careers. However, before you can be a contender for a job, you still need to the skill for the job. Like you are talking about getting the top physician to help you, but it often isn't the top physician you need. You just need a competent physician.

The other thing is, is the more backstabby a culture is, the more valued actual competency is. Someone who is very powerful is going to want a really skilled physician on call, and so they will act to protect the person they've chosen as their personal physician.

[lord_khaine]

This is very true, and office politics is a thing in many different careers. However, before you can be a contender for a job, you still need to the skill for the job. Like you are talking about getting the top physician to help you, but it often isn't the top physician you need. You just need a competent physician.

Well. I cant think of any case where your not served better by having a better physician.
The better the physician is, the smaller the chance they make a mistake.

The other thing is, is the more backstabby a culture is, the more valued actual competency is. Someone who is very powerful is going to want a really skilled physician on call, and so they will act to protect the person they've chosen as their personal physician.

Well. Problem is it only works in theory. If it worked in practice, it would be the actually competent people promoted.
But problem remain, that the point of all the figurative backstabbing is to make others appear less competent.

[Forum Explorer]

Well. I cant think of any case where your not served better by having a better physician.
The better the physician is, the smaller the chance they make a mistake.



Well. Problem is it only works in theory. If it worked in practice, it would be the actually competent people promoted.
But problem remain, that the point of all the figurative backstabbing is to make others appear less competent.

Well, let's play with a few numbers that have no basis in reality for an example. Let's say to be a physician at all, you need a minimum of a 75% success rate. And that would be the worst physicians. An average could be 85%, and a good one would be 90%, while the best of the best would be 95%. But while you'd want that 95%, odds are that an average one would work just fine, and you wouldn't notice the difference, because the success and failure can be very binary with there being very little difference in the degree of success.


It gets more complex than that. If you are in a backstabby culture, than the physician must be someone you can trust absolutely. Which means they are likely your personal physician and likely your only one because you wouldn't want to trust more people with that power.

[lord_khaine]

Well, let's play with a few numbers that have no basis in reality for an example. Let's say to be a physician at all, you need a minimum of a 75% success rate. And that would be the worst physicians. An average could be 85%, and a good one would be 90%, while the best of the best would be 95%. But while you'd want that 95%, odds are that an average one would work just fine, and you wouldn't notice the difference, because the success and failure can be very binary with there being very little difference in the degree of success.

Well.. even in those numbers you picked who have a minimal difference between an average physician, and a good one.
A difference so small it seemingly might not be there, then the average Physician would still lose 50% more people than a good one.
Even there you absolutely want a good if possible.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm not sure why we're assuming 'cutthroat' means 'murderous psychopaths'. Just because they look like drow doesn't mean they are automatically backstabbing, self-sabotaging lunatics whose entire society only continues to function because of author/divine fiat. If nothing else, the Alari had to develop that reputation of being imperialist douchebags, so they can't run entirely on Klingon Promotion.

[Forum Explorer]

Well.. even in those numbers you picked who have a minimal difference between an average physician, and a good one.
A difference so small it seemingly might not be there, then the average Physician would still lose 50% more people than a good one.
Even there you absolutely want a good if possible.

Of course you want a good doctor, but how would you even know? Like you go to a doctor three times, and each time they succeed in helping you. Okay, so did you get lucky with a poor doctor (and not even that lucky) or do you have a good doctor?

Or you go in and you die. Were you the unlucky 5% of a good doctor, or were you one of the many more failures of a poor doctor. Doesn't matter, it's not like past results are going to be reported or can be trusted in a backstabby society, so you aren't even a statistic, you just die and disappear.

[Kantaki]

I'm not sure why we're assuming 'cutthroat' means 'murderous psychopaths'. Just because they look like drow doesn't mean they are automatically backstabbing, self-sabotaging lunatics whose entire society only continues to function because of author/divine fiat. If nothing else, the Alari had to develop that reputation of being imperialist douchebags, so they can't run entirely on Klingon Promotion.

The author blurb mentioned the idiot cave elves and something about cutting throats when describing the Alari, that's why.
But yeah, I doubt it goes that far, especially with someone clearly more qualified. If anything you're extra friendly in case they can help you advance.
Equals applying for the same job or less competent superiors though?
There go the usual niceties. While it probably won't involve murser or planting false evidence there's certainly gonna be sabotage of all kinds.
Make sure they don't get the equipment they need, mess with their presentations, give them false directions, publish before them, make sure their mistakes and flaws get known, things like that.

[Traab]

Yeah i was exaggerating with my example of how things go, in reality its probably just far harsher office politics, or at least more commonly done. Stealing credit for work other people do, shifting blame to your competition for mistakes that get made. You still have to be good at your job, as trickery only takes you so far, but I could see a functioning society where this is how things are done.

[Yuki Akuma]

You guys all know that "cutthroat" is just an idiom that means "competitive" right

[Kantaki]

You guys all know that "cutthroat" is just an idiom that means "competitive" right

Aggressively/Ruthlessly so though.
So while "natural causes"-ing your competion is probably a bit much sabotage, shifting blame and stealing credit are to be expected.

[Lamech]

The other thing is, is the more backstabby a culture is, the more valued actual competency is. Someone who is very powerful is going to want a really skilled physician on call, and so they will act to protect the person they've chosen as their personal physician.

That seems backwards. Everyone wants competent employees. But if a society is also really backstabby you'll want a really trustworthy physician on call, who won't poison you for a promotion or something.

Anyway, "competitive" and "cutthroat" have different connotations. "Cutthroat" generally implies a willingness to engage in trickery, deceit or other misdeeds, while "competitive" implies striving to win and be better at something. "terribly" as an intensifier also has some nasty connotations. And the mention of Drow-like also pushes them in the murdery direction.

[Keltest]

That seems backwards. Everyone wants competent employees. But if a society is also really backstabby you'll want a really trustworthy physician on call, who won't poison you for a promotion or something.

Anyway, "competitive" and "cutthroat" have different connotations. "Cutthroat" generally implies a willingness to engage in trickery, deceit or other misdeeds, while "competitive" implies striving to win and be better at something. "terribly" as an intensifier also has some nasty connotations. And the mention of Drow-like also pushes them in the murdery direction.

I disagree. Cutthroat is usually used to mean "without mercy" or "ruthless", not necessarily violent or cruel. They'll jump on an opportunity if they see one, but they wont necessarily proactively eliminate rivals or anything like that.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Deus' new assistant is growing on me. It's like she's saying out loud what he thinks.

[DataNinja]

Huh, only just noticed the wings in the last panel. So, definitely not just a Sciona thing - can't remember seeing any on any other Alari before this. Refugees didn't that I can remember.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The way that they were bundled up, they may have been under the clothes.

[Max_Killjoy]

Huh, only just noticed the wings in the last panel. So, definitely not just a Sciona thing - can't remember seeing any on any other Alari before this. Refugees didn't that I can remember.

You can see one of the refugee's wings when Sidney almost walks into her from behind on gateway world.