A Druid argument

[streakster]

A friend of mine, in a game we're playing, is a druid, as am I. He focused on his animal companion, I on Wild Shape. I took the aberrant feats that allow aberrant shapeshifting.

Now, the argument is over Wild Shape - I look through books to find cool new aberrations (of which there seem to be lot more than animals), and always try to match the form to the job. My friend says that doing so is cheating, and I have to wait until I see one to become one. True?

(Also, anyone got any really obscure aberrations good for wild shaping? Just to bug him.)

[MeklorIlavator]

A friend of mine, in a game we're playing, is a druid, as am I. He focused on his animal companion, I on Wild Shape. I took the aberrant feats that allow aberrant shapeshifting.

Now, the argument is over Wild Shape - I look through books to find cool new aberrations (of which there seem to be lot more than animals), and always try to match the form to the job. My friend says that doing so is cheating, and I have to wait until I see one to become one. True?

There is no clear-cut answer to this question, as the rulebook only says that one must be familiar with the creature. What constitutes familiarity is up to your DM, but most assume that you at least have to see the creature.

[sikyon]

A friend of mine, in a game we're playing, is a druid, as am I. He focused on his animal companion, I on Wild Shape. I took the aberrant feats that allow aberrant shapeshifting.

Now, the argument is over Wild Shape - I look through books to find cool new aberrations (of which there seem to be lot more than animals), and always try to match the form to the job. My friend says that doing so is cheating, and I have to wait until I see one to become one. True?

(Also, anyone got any really obscure aberrations good for wild shaping? Just to bug him.)

I would ask the DM, or roll knoweldge checks.

[streakster]

Thank you! I'll see if having to roll a Knowledge check if I haven't seen one goes over well.

[DraPrime]

Well, it isn't really cheating. It all depends on how strict your DM is about metagame knowledge. Still, I agree with Sikyon. Go with a knowledge check. As far as I know aberrations fall under Knowledge (dungeoneering).

[Armads]

(Also, anyone got any really obscure aberrations good for wild shaping? Just to bug him.)

Good aberration forms: Rukanyr (from FF), Rust Monster, more here (scroll down)

[Dode]

Will O' Wisp

Tough to beat 29 Dex, natural invisibility and immunity to magic.

With a Tsochar you can climb into still-living bodies and wear their flesh as your own.

[Thinker]

There is no clear-cut answer to this question, as the rulebook only says that one must be familiar with the creature. What constitutes familiarity is up to your DM, but most assume that you at least have to see the creature.

Sweeping generalizations aren't necessarily accurate.

On another note, I'd also suggest going with knowledge checks.

[Green Bean]

Good aberration forms: Rukanyr (from FF), Rust Monster, more here (scroll down)

Rust Monster probably isn't the best idea. Remember, it's your eventual loot that you're destroying.

[The_Snark]

More good abberations: Grell (flight, reach, lots of natural weapons, paralysis, grappling; Lords of Madness), cloaker (moan, engulf), darktentacles (many tentacles, absurd grappling, low mobility; MM2), wyste (...lots of natural attacks and grappling... MM2).

Huh. Maybe you should consider Improved Grapple. It seems like a lot of abberations like grappling.

[streakster]

Improved grapple sounds good. I should also get that one form Savage Species that allows you to take a supernatural ability.

Thanks for all the ideas, all! Will O' Wisp should make him really annoyed, and Tsochar and Darktentacles sound awesome. Hope I make the knowledge check.

[leperkhaun]

make sure you take the feat that allows you to use abberitions special abilities, Assume Supernatural Ability from savage species.

taken from http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread...7#post10552967

Aberration:
If you take Aberration Wild Shape (LoM), you can use Wild Shape to turn into aberrations, subject to the other usual limitations of Wild Shape.

This is another section still in development. As such, take the advice with a grain of salt. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

In the meantime, here's some advice on Aberration Wild Shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alansmithee
Generally, you can find more attacks with abberations than with animal forms, but usually at a lower Str. Many creatures with these attacks will have poison, grab, or both with them. Obviously, these forms get the most milage out of Greater Magic Fang, as usually 4+ of the attacks are with the same type of natural weapon. As was said above, having access to assume supernatural form makes abberation wildshaping stupidly good (a prime target for this feat would be the Beholder's Eye Ray ability, which nets all 10 rays for use). Another benefit of abberation wildshaping is the humanoid form many take, which makes using equipment much easier, and often will allow for speech.

And from the above list, some of my favorites are the cloaker for casting early on (if you don't want to waste a spell, fly up and moan), the rukanyr for it's multiple attacks and stun/poison, the darktentacles for it's insane grapple, and the lifeleech otyugh for it's grab and high stats.

* Level 5
o Rust Monster - Useful for sabotage, removing metal walls, etc.
o Tako (OA) - Seven arms for weapons or Improved Grab/Constrict, aquatic, Multidexterity bonus feat.
* Level 8
o Cloaker - Area-effect moan, and goofy Engulf ability.
o Ineffable Horror (Und) - Flight, grapple and blood drain.
o Rukanyr (FF) - High AC at 7hd, one stunning attack, 3 poisoning attacks, 6 other claw attacks
o Mimic - adhesive (auto-grapple, can trap weapons)
* Level 9
o Stonesinger (MM3) - High nat armour, burrow+climb speed, poison bite+6 claws, decent Str
o Lifeleech Otyugh (MM3) - 4 tentacles+bite, imp grab+Constrict, high Str
* Level 10
o Hook Horror (MM2) - Imp Grab, power sunder, decent stats, climb speed
* Level 11
o Chuul - An alternative to Dire Bear. Lower grapple check and less damage in straight attacks because of lower Str, but its Constrict does comparable damage in a grapple, it can paralyze grappled foes, and it has better AC.
* Level 12
o Death Kiss Beholderkin (MonOF) - 10(!) tentacle attacks, each doing Con damage
o Urophion (LoM) - 50' range melee touch attack that does strength damage and lets you drag the victim in to eat his brain. One of the best aberration forms.
o Ocularon (FF) - Large 12HD, 90' fly speed (perfect) decent ac (21), imp grab w/ 4 tentacles, steal eyes and gain poison attack with those eyes
o Darktentacles (MM2) - 12 attacks (up to 3 at a single square), can use weapons at lowered penalties, decent stats, imp grab w/ +16 racial bonus
* Level 15
o Athach - Human-shaped form, with high stats and a poison bite.
o Deepspawn (PGtF) - Three "hands," great reach, good stats, lots of natural attacks, Improved Grab/Constrict
o Delver - High AC and an acid attack that is exceedingly effective against metallic or stony foes.
* Level 18
o Nagahydra (Serp) - seven bites with potent poison, massive stats
o Moonbeast (MM2) - 10(!) powerful attacks, plus Constrict AND bite on a grapple
* Level 20
o Chilblain (Frost) - A flier that deals respectable damage and has massive AC.
o Maulgoth (FF) - Send enemies (or allies) to ethereal plane with a touch.

[Dode]

The aberration list has Mimic but not Will-O-Wisp?
That's... not a very good list.

[Guy_Whozevl]

A friend of mine, in a game we're playing, is a druid, as am I. He focused on his animal companion, I on Wild Shape. I took the aberrant feats that allow aberrant shapeshifting.

Now, the argument is over Wild Shape - I look through books to find cool new aberrations (of which there seem to be lot more than animals), and always try to match the form to the job. My friend says that doing so is cheating, and I have to wait until I see one to become one. True?

(Also, anyone got any really obscure aberrations good for wild shaping? Just to bug him.)

I'm sorry to say, but your friend is right. From the SRD (emphasis mine):

Wild Shape (Su)
At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.

You could rule that a knowledge check might help, but generally, abberations are too wierd to recall perfectly with a knowledge check. You may know it when you see it, but that mental picture probably can't come to you that easily.

[Overlard]

I'm sorry to say, but your friend is right. From the SRD (emphasis mine):

You could rule that a knowledge check might help, but generally, abberations are too wierd to recall perfectly with a knowledge check. You may know it when you see it, but that mental picture probably can't come to you that easily.

Why not? They're weird, but if you've read about them or studied them, then why wouldn't they come to mind?

Knowledge checks are the best way to go. Would a druid be banned from taking the shape of a bear, just because he hasn't encountered one in-game?

[Miraqariftsky]

Wait a sec! Aren't aberrations anathema to Nature's order?

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yes, but so are CoDzillas, and she ain't complainin', 'aight?

[Vasdenjas]

Would a druid be banned from taking the shape of a bear, just because he hasn't encountered one in-game?

Yes. However, that's easily remedied by casting a simple Summon Nature's Ally spell to meet one. Summon Monster may work for some aberrations as well.

Aslo, Dode, please note that unless he is also a level 7 Master of Many Forms, he won't be getting the Natural Invisibility or Immunity to Magic. Wild Shape naturally only grants EX attacks, not EX qualities or anything SU or SP.

[martyboy74]

Wait a sec! Aren't aberrations anathema to Nature's order?

But there're still part of nature's order. This just happens to be a particualrly opportunistic druid who took a feat to represent it.

[Overlard]

Yes. However, that's easily remedied by casting a simple Summon Nature's Ally spell to meet one. Summon Monster may work for some aberrations as well.

Going down that road, how would the druid know to summon a bear if he hasn't seen one?

[martyboy74]

Look, just say he mentored under a planar shepard, and the Far Realm/Xoriat was his 'time out' zone.

[Arbitrarity]

Look, just say he mentored under a planar shepard, and the Far Realm was his 'time out' zone.

But that would mean there ARE planar shepards ingame....

[Kurald Galain]

Going down that road, how would the druid know to summon a bear if he hasn't seen one?

Touche!

I find knowledge checks rather lame for this purpose (and also, entirely too random). I would instead prefer something fitting in the character's backstory or ongoing adventures.

Also, personally I would disallow some of the weirder aberrations on grounds of them not existing in my campaign world. But I do find the aberdruid concept rather intriguing. My nature god would not approve, but there are a few other gods that would (and thus could "sponsor" a druid).

[Miraqariftsky]

But there're still part of nature's order. This just happens to be a particualrly opportunistic druid who took a feat to represent it.

Ah! It seems I have read too much of DBassingthwaite's Eberron work in which aberrations, invaders from Xoriat, Plane of Madness, come into direct conflict with Gatekeeper Druidism.

Oh well...

[leperkhaun]

The aberration list has Mimic but not Will-O-Wisp?
That's... not a very good list.

the abberations on that list are mostly for physical damage. Will-o-wisp is basically just for druid nukers. as an attack form they are lacking.

[Tor the Fallen]

Wouldn't a knowledge: dungeoneering be required to know about aberrations, not nature?

[Kaelik]

You say he is focusing on his companion? Ask him when in the campaign he ran into this creature. Point out that if the default is not having any knowledge of the things that you in touch with that he doesn't know about whatever his animal companion is either.

Use knowledge checks.

[Roderick_BR]

You would need Knowledge(Dungeoneering), because it covers aberrations. Yeah, I don't know why, either, but it also covers oozes.
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, I don't allow a player to use creatures that doesn't exist in that specific world setting they are in.
The DM may notice that he can veto some creatures that usually exists in a campaign setting if he so wishes (and being careful to don't forbid a creature, and later notice that he will need to use it).
The skill check would need a high DC, as the player tries to find "a creature that'll help in the present situation".

[Tor the Fallen]

Will O' Wisp

Tough to beat 29 Dex, natural invisibility and immunity to magic.

With a Tsochar you can climb into still-living bodies and wear their flesh as your own.

I'm curious how the Druid is using the wisp's magic immunity and invis with wildshape.

Is there a spell or feat that lets you do that?

[Fax Celestis]

I'm curious how the Druid is using the wisp's magic immunity and invis with wildshape.

Is there a spell or feat that lets you do that?

Yup. The Enhance Wild Shape spell in the SC, or possibly the Exalted Wild Shape feat (depending on your reading of it).