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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Wu jen Jade Phoenix Mage Body Outside Body build help

    If we literally just need Absorption, the gold standard is Wyrm Wizard 2 (Dragon Magic). You can use the same method to get Body Outside Body on a Wizard but I think we like Wu Jen for flavor, not just Body Outside Body shenanigans.

    Edit: as far as cheating your own death, if you're using an interpretation of the belt that doesn't require them to end at exactly zero (or if you agree with me that it doesn't affect your current HP) you can just use Minor Shapeshift to get 20 new temp HP each turn you take with WRT because BOB only deals 10 damage to you when a clone dies. You just have to make sure not more than two die before you get another turn from a WRT to do Minor Shapeshift again, so you could even (theoretically) recover maneuvers or cast a quickened spell in between Minor Shapeshift uses if you needed to.
    Last edited by Silvercrys; 2019-08-24 at 10:05 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Elves's Avatar

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    Feb 2019

    Default Re: Wu jen Jade Phoenix Mage Body Outside Body build help

    Wyrm Wizard 2's lost CL means JPM5 instead of JPM10, so in that case, better to use wizard and use Wyrm Wizard to research BOB, since JPM5 can't take advantage of the Transcend Immortality trick. I agree, wu jen flavor is nice though.

    The Absorption route has much thinner margins of action advantage, though Cooperative Metamagic giving you free Maximized Twinned Absorption is certainly nice. (Each maximized twinned absorption costs 9 spell levels and gets you (avg) 18.5 spell levels, so it gets 9.5 spell levels net per cast on average, but you lose WRT actions from having to cast spells to absorb, possibly via a summoned monster using SLAs on you, etc.) I think it's less elegant. However, it does have the advantage of not relying on a specific item.

    (It's also worth noting that despite its sinister name, the belt of the dread emperor is not noted as an evil item, nor are evil spells involved in its creation.)
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-08-25 at 05:35 PM.
    The Age of Warriors (revived 2019) - Huge fanmade TOB sequel. Content needs PEACH and input.

    PEACH: Spellblade class (simple gish with infinite spells), Soulborn redux (ToB / Incarnum fusion), Swordmind (ToB / Soulknife PRC)

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Elves's Avatar

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    Feb 2019

    Default Re: Wu jen Jade Phoenix Mage Body Outside Body build help

    Thinking back on this thread:

    Silvercrys's argument for BOB clones being able to use SLAs seems stronger than I thought. Both the PHB/SRD and RC page 8 list using a spell-like ability as a different action than casting a spell. Rules Compendium's text on spell-like abilities removed the phrase from the PHB, "In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell". And the phrase that remains -- "Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name" -- is most directly read as referring simply to the produced effect.


    However, it seems like under this ruling, there might still be a problem due to the bizarre way archmage's SLA ability is worded:

    An archmage who selects this type of high arcana can use one of her arcane spell slots to permanently prepare one of her arcane spells as a spell-like ability that can be used twice per day.
    A spell slot prepared as an SLA. I have, first of all, no idea how you would actually write this in a statblock.

    As said earlier in this thread, I'm not convinced by the idea that a BOB clone would eg only have 2 uses left of a 3/day SLA you had already used once today, because I don't think that describes how SLAs actually work -- as a frequency condition that gets literally carried over from your statblock to your copy's, unlike a spell slot which gets transferred in a discrete state (open/prepared/expended).

    But if this SLA is actually in a spell slot, that might make that argument irrelevant to this case.

    I think the key here is what "permanently prepared" means. One interpretation is that it means the slot simply can't be used to prepare anything else. Taken literally, however, it means that the weirdo SLA slot is always transferred to your Bobs in a "prepared" state, hence that the combo works just fine with it. So I guess it's not a problem.



    Last cute addition to the build: As per TOB page 39, Selecting Martial Maneuvers, “your [initiator level] determines the highest level of maneuver you can select,” not use or initiate. Hence, if you use Anthrowhale's Tainted trick to acquire a high initiator level, take a warblade level and learn high level maneuvers, then after you drain away those Tainted levels you'll retain the ability to use those maneuvers despite a lower IL. In the case of this build this removes even more of the pressure around having to take warblade only after 8 non-initiator levels, but it could be used more extensively to boost the level of maneuver you can take with JPM.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-10-02 at 04:39 PM.
    The Age of Warriors (revived 2019) - Huge fanmade TOB sequel. Content needs PEACH and input.

    PEACH: Spellblade class (simple gish with infinite spells), Soulborn redux (ToB / Incarnum fusion), Swordmind (ToB / Soulknife PRC)

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