OOTS #1176 - The Discussion Thread

[Schroeswald]

I have watched them. As I said, I decided I was done with the series after I failed to enjoy them (specifically, the prequels). Same reason why I will probably skip Matrix 4, and anything in the DCU: when the number of films I dislike in a series outnumbers the number of them I did enjoy, why would I continue to watch the series? How many free passes do I hand out? How much time do I waste in the hopes that the next one might be better? Well, as it turns out, it's 2. After two bad films, I stop watching. Which means I did not subject myself to, say, Batman V Superman. And that turned out to be, I suspect, a good decision.

Grey Wolf

The DCU is getting better (well, less bad), I can and would suggest both Shazam and Wonder Woman, they are very different films from the rest of the DCEU and are much closer in tone and quality to Marvel (which I mention because you earlier said you liked them) than any of the others, I’ve heard mixed things about Aquaman but I skipped that one due to my not caring about it and the track record for the others, at this point a good strategy is only watch what you find interesting/hear is good, because it’s all over the place.

[Fyraltari]

You should see Shazam!. I know my superhero cred may be shot with you after Spider-Verse, but it's amazingly fun. So good.

Heh, Shazam! was fun and good overall but I wouldn't say "amazing". 13/20.

[Snails]

In the 6 previous movies, they way you learned to use the Force was being taught by a Jedi Master. The most anyone could do with the Force without such training was a little bit of anticipation of the future while flying.

Poor, poor Luke. Eaten by a yeti in a Hoth ice cave because it is canon that new Force skills must be trained, and you cannot possibly tap into your greater potential when motivated by extreme duress.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I know my superhero cred may be shot with you after Spider-Verse, but it's amazingly fun. So good.

It wasn't just you. Every critic seems to tell me it's possibly the greatest superhero film of all time, definitely the greatest animated superhero film of all time, that the imagery is amazing, and the characters perfect. The film I got to watch was so headache-inducing I actively had to check if I had wondered into the 3d version projection by mistake, and the characters where cookie-cutter, and predictable in both actions and overall arch. It was an OK movie (definitely below The Incredibles in all the qualities that matter to me), marred by horrendous decisions in visual style that made it nigh-impossible to watch.

The DCU is getting better (well, less bad), I can and would suggest both Shazam and Wonder Woman, they are very different films from the rest of the DCEU and are much closer in tone and quality to Marvel (which I mention because you earlier said you liked them)

Sorry, I don't read a book just because chapters 10-13 are about as good as chapters in other books. That's the danger of shared universes. I can put up with the occasional boring chapter, but I'm not about to skip them entirely, not if I'm being promised a whole book.

Grey Wolf

[Worldsong]

All I know about Star Wars I learned from reading Darths And Droids.

EDIT: And to avoid sounding like I'm just advertising, this means that while I've picked up quite a lot of snippets and have a general idea of the storyline as a whole the deep lore stuff completely goes over my head because I was distracted by hand puns.

[Snails]

Rey in Star Wars and Ghostbusters (2016) are the biggest two examples of this phenomenon. Criticizing either of them results in author or fan backlash that the person criticizing them is automatically one of the "-ists" listed above, regardless of the content of the criticism. Basically, the author will write a sloppy character and then attempt to dismiss anyone who dares to criticize the sloppiness with an ad hominem attack.

Walk like a duck. Talk like a duck. Consequences.

The new Ghostbusters was a lousy movie and I could name simple reasons it was going to be disappointing by looking at the trailer, problems that were proven to be true when I caught 25 minutes of the move on the tellie in a hotel room one late night. What caught my about the new trailer were differences in tone and style that were likely to make the movie lousy regardless of the actor or actress playing any particular role.

It only takes half a brain to name a lot of reasons it was poor without making personal attacks on the actresses or people who made the movie. But for some reason that is not much of a mystery the critics who pout about being accused of being an "-ist" cannot shut up about how nobody is allowed to like a poorly written character for being a strong woman, and then move on to blaming the women and only the women involved in the project.

Walk like a duck. Talk like a duck. There are consequences. I am not going to lift a finger to protect people from their personal choices on that score. In fact, I cannot help but notice some people like to walk like a duck and talk like a duck very loudly, so that they can complain about being accused of being a duck. It is what it is.

I don't dislike Rey simply because she's competent. I dislike her because she's inexplicably competent in ways that contradict the previously established narrative of the film's universe, and the films give essentially zero justification for this..

Go. Watch. Anakin. In. Episode. One.

There is nothing wrong with disliking how Rey was written. Nothing at all. But you know less than nothing about the "established narrative of the film's universe". Less than nothing.

When people have to wildly fabricate to themselves to justify their opinion to themselves and others, it is usually because there is a little piece inside that has the decency to know that they really should be completely ashamed of what they are really thinking. Best to blame everyone else for noticing that one is walking like a duck and talking like a duck, right?

[Dion]

All I’ll say about Rey is this: there are lots and lots of absolutely terrible characters in movies.

But for some reason that I can’t figure out, a lot of very loud critics seem to have the most trouble with the female characters.

Many of these same critics seem to have the most trouble with the way women do things in real life, too.

But those critics are the first to tell you they’re not sexist. In fact, it turns out that I’m the sexist one, for noticing that certain people always seem to have trouble with women.

[GregTD]

Poor, poor Luke. Eaten by a yeti in a Hoth ice cave because it is canon that new Force skills must be trained, and you cannot possibly tap into your greater potential when motivated by extreme duress.

What part of Luke being trained by Ben in the first movie did you miss?

Who was Rey's "Ben"? Who was the Jedi Master who got her started?

The movie is very inconsistent with Luke’s prowess. He is a superb flier who one-shots the Death Star without a targeting computer but a single Tusken raider sneaks up on him undetected and kicks his butt.

Before he's taught by Jedi Master Ben: a single Tusken raider sneaks up on Luke undetected and kicks his butt.
After he's taught by Jedi Master Ben: Luke uses the Force to make his shot on the Death Star work.

Being a scavenger, living on the edge, in the middle of nowhere, is a pretty good way to become someone with a wide range of skills. Because if you don't, you die.
Just look at Han Solo.

Hmm. Han Solo, who was trained at a military academy as a pilot, and had decades as a successful smuggler, with a partner to back him up, before we ever saw him. In pretty much any version of reality that's close to ours, if you don't have people to start your training, you don't get very far. Now, if Rey's parents had left her with a highly functional tutor-bot, some of her skills could be explained. Did I miss that?

No, we don’t, but we also don’t see Luke learning the saber or mind tricks either. When a lot of accusations are aimed at the woman, but not the man who does the same things, I wonder why. It seems unfair..

Did you just not see "A New Hope"? Ben spent the entire flight to the Death Star training Luke on how to use a Light Saber. Luke did not use any mind tricks until Return of the Jedi, after he completed his training with Yoda.

I saw Luke learning how to use the Force to anticipate the laser firing flying droid, before he ever used the Force to make a shot (let alone used a Light Saber in combat). I saw him fail many times before he succeeded.

Where was Rey's training? Oh, that's right, she didn't have any. The Force just miraculously blessed her with the ability to do everything she needed to do, whenever she needed it.

[GregTD]

All I’ll say about Rey is this: there are lots and lots of absolutely terrible characters in movies.

But for some reason that I can’t figure out, a lot of very loud critics seem to have the most trouble with the female characters.

Many of these same critics seem to have the most trouble with the way women do things in real life, too.

But those critics are the first to tell you they’re not sexist. In fact, it turns out that I’m the sexist one, for noticing that certain people always seem to have trouble with women.

Ah, yes, because if you don't like a crap character who's "X", it must be because you hate "X". Because, of course, no one ever bashed Anikin from the prequels, we all loved him, because he's a "not X". No one ever called him a whiny little brat, or mocked the actor's total lack of charism and acting ability, or did anything like that, because it's just htat we hate "X".

You have fun telling yourself that.

Walk like a duck. Talk like a duck. Consequences.

The new Ghostbusters was a lousy movie and I could name simple reasons it was going to be disappointing by looking at the trailer, problems that were proven to be true when I caught 25 minutes of the move on the tellie in a hotel room one late night. What caught my about the new trailer were differences in tone and style that were likely to make the movie lousy regardless of the actor or actress playing any particular role.

It only takes half a brain to name a lot of reasons it was poor without making personal attacks on the actresses or people who made the movie. But for some reason that is not much of a mystery the critics who pout about being accused of being an "-ist" cannot shut up about how nobody is allowed to like a poorly written character for being a strong woman, and then move on to blaming the women and only the women involved in the project.

The movie had all female leads. Who were, IIRC, rude, arrogant jerks, in public, to fans of the old series who (for good reason) didn't like the new one. Why in the world wouldn't they get negative feedback directed at them?

IIRC, one of the male writers was also a total jerk to the fans, doing the "the only reason not to like this is because you're sexist" BS schtick. And, IRRC, he got lots of hate, too.

Because when you give out lots of hate to the fans, they tend to return the favor

Go. Watch. Anakin. In. Episode. One.

There is nothing wrong with disliking how Rey was written. Nothing at all. But you know less than nothing about the "established narrative of the film's universe". Less than nothing.

Yep. Totally whinny brat. Lots of people hated him when it came out. I only saw the movie once. So could you remind me of the scenes when young Anakin in Episode One was Force bending people's minds? When he was lifting object using the Force? You know, all those things Rey was doing at the same stage of her "Jedi development"?

Because, like I said, I only saw that crap movie once (I tried to watch it a second time, to follow up on the "Jar Jar Binks is an evil Sith Lord" claims, but ~15 minutes in I couldn't stand it any more, and gave up), but I don't remember Anakin doing pretty much any of the Force things we're criticizing in Rey.

But hey, have fun playing with those ducks

[Dion]

I have watched them.
Grey Wolf

Then you’ve seen Luke Skywalker save the princess and blow up the Death Star, and you’ve seen Luke lose his hand to Vader and Han Solo frozen in carbonite. You’ve pretty much seen everything that matters.

Don’t bother with the third one. There’s some Ewoks. They’re stupid. Then Luke blows up the Death Star again, for some reason.

[Worldsong]

All I’ll say about Rey is this: there are lots and lots of absolutely terrible characters in movies.

But for some reason that I can’t figure out, a lot of very loud critics seem to have the most trouble with the female characters.

Many of these same critics seem to have the most trouble with the way women do things in real life, too.

But those critics are the first to tell you they’re not sexist. In fact, it turns out that I’m the sexist one, for noticing that certain people always seem to have trouble with women.

I still think there might be tricky waters there because when discussing a story the main character is an important factor, yet when the main character is female people with less-than-positive intentions might link the amount of attention a critic gives that character to said character being female rather than that character being the main character.

Note, I don't think anybody in this discussion is like that.

[Dion]

people with less-than-positive intentions might link the amount of attention a critic gives that character to said character being female

Yes, as I said, an inordinate amount of criticism is directed female leads in traditionally male roles.

But as you said, it’s the people who notice the sexist imbalance in the criticism who are the ones with bad intentions.

[Schroeswald]

Sorry, I don't read a book just because chapters 10-13 are about as good as chapters in other books. That's the danger of shared universes. I can put up with the occasional boring chapter, but I'm not about to skip them entirely, not if I'm being promised a whole book.

Grey Wolf

I can’t promise that you can ignore the rest of the DCU for Wonder Woman but I can say that except for the fact that Batman/Superman exist nothing in Shazam has any connection to any other movie, I would suggest not treating DCEU as a whole book (especially the way it’s going), treat each movie that seems interesting as completely separate from every other movie (until the sequels start showing up, Wonder Woman 1984 and Black Adam are most likely tied to Wonder Woman and shazam respectively, but they will likely have no connection with each other). I personally have watched at most half of the Marvel movies (Avengers 1-4, Guardians 1-2, Civil War, Spider-Man: Something Something Home 1-2, Black Panther and Captain Marvel), but I have a good idea of what’s going on, similarly I haven’t watch MoS, Suicide Squad or Aquaman and I can say that Wonder Woman and Shazam are amazing, don’t treat a cinematic universe like a film series (where you probably can’t watch the middle without the beginning and end), treat it like the body of work of an author (which gives a guide on quality and tone to see if you’d like it but you don’t need to watch most of what they write).

[GregTD]

Yes, as I said, an inordinate amount of criticism is directed female leads in traditionally male roles.

But as you said, it’s the people who notice the sexist imbalance in the criticism who are the ones with bad intentions.

Yeah, that must be why everyone hated the original Terminator, and Alien, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, just to grab three shows off the top of my head.

it's because we just hate to see strong, competent, women, kicking a$$.

Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket!

[Dion]

Ah, yes, because if you don't like a crap character who's "X", it must be because you hate "X".

I dont like a lot of characters. About 95% of everything is complete crap.

But if I spent a lot of my time complaining about crappy character who are “X”, and then further complaining about how it’s some liberal Hollywood conspiracy to shove crappy characters of type “X” on me without my consent, and then complaining how crappy characters of type “X” take away the crappy roles from people of type “Y”, who i would rather see playing the same crappy characters, then... uhh... yeah, I might not be criticizing crappy characters. I might be criticizing “X”.

[Cazero]

Relevant xkcd.

[drazen]

Walk like a duck. Talk like a duck. Consequences.

It only takes half a brain to name a lot of reasons it was poor without making personal attacks on the actresses or people who made the movie. But for some reason that is not much of a mystery the critics who pout about being accused of being an "-ist" cannot shut up about how nobody is allowed to like a poorly written character for being a strong woman, and then move on to blaming the women and only the women involved in the project.

I don't blame the actress. Much like the prequels, if she's directed not to emote, she likely won't. I blame the person behind the scenes who pushes an agenda with a crappy character that doesn't even back up the worldview/character traits they want to showcase, because the character is paper-thin and poorly developed.

I've liked plenty of strong and/or well-developed female characters. Sarah Connor in T2. Gwyneth Paltrow's character in "Proof."

Go. Watch. Anakin. In. Episode. One.

There is nothing wrong with disliking how Rey was written. Nothing at all. But you know less than nothing about the "established narrative of the film's universe". Less than nothing.

When people have to wildly fabricate to themselves to justify their opinion to themselves and others, it is usually because there is a little piece inside that has the decency to know that they really should be completely ashamed of what they are really thinking. Best to blame everyone else for noticing that one is walking like a duck and talking like a duck, right?

Anakin's abilities have an established reason in the narrative. It is heavily implied that Palpatine literally created him out of the Force itself. So there is an actual narrative reason for Anakin's abilities in the first movie, which, if I recall, were pretty much just pod racing and robot building (can't remember if he does a mind trick as a kid or not because who would rewatch the prequels enough to notice, anyway?). My point is that Rey does not have even that little detail anywhere in the narrative. Maybe it's in some supplemental materials somewhere, but I don't read those, and I expect a movie and its characters to stand on their own.

The only ducks are the people screaming "-ism." No matter how detailed the criticism, no matter how much it has NOTHING to do with sex/race/orientation and everything to do with writing and characterization, they will always throw back an "-ism." Their characters are wonderful to them and beyond reproach, no matter how absurd they are coming across on screen. I can probably name a dozen bad male action heroes - even the well-established character of John McClane in the fifth Die Hard was an unrecognizable, incoherent trainwreck in that film, and his son was no better, with no more characterization than vague "daddy issues." I found him as annoying as Rey for many of the same reasons. But I don't remember that writer adamantly defending a crappy character with ad hominem attacks. No, you're just not allowed to criticize certain bad characters no matter how blatantly and obvious terrible and one-note they are.

The Hulk review someone linked here got at least one thing right: in the newer Star Wars movies, and JJ Abrams movies in general, you don't have character motivation driving their action. You have snippets of personality. And they're not even consistent for a lot of the characters. So all you get is a surface level that is impossible to invest in. You don't really see what makes the character tick; with Luke, we saw his life on the farm; even with Anakin, we see his life as a child slave. With Rey? Eh... she scowls in the desert and then bounces from action scene to action seen. There's nothing there to build on. There could be if the action scenes revealed something about her personality or backstory, but that just doesn't happen. It's just cardboard. A story has to be more than a clever plot (this is a big reason why I hated Steven Moffat's writing in Doctor Who - he was usually too busy showing off how clever he is).

The off-putting thing for me is the demand that people absolutely *must* like a character, or else there's something wrong with *their* character, even when there are legit criticisms to be had - obvious ones at that. And the people spewing that sort of dismissiveness of their critics are spewing a bunch of divisive horse-crap.

Develop an actually memorable and interesting character and we don't even have to have these stupid discussions. The original trilogy was a hero's journey; the prequels were a villain's journey (much more badly done), and the new ones are... just noise, as far as I can tell.

[AchtungNight]

Return of the Jedi will always be a great movie to me. For Darth Vader’s redemption and for the downfalls of two epic villains- The Emperor and Jabba the Hutt. Watching the movie is worth it for those arcs alone.

Aqua man, Shazam, and Wonder Woman are great movies too. I’d gladly cast/see Zack Levi as Tarquin & Gal Gadot as Sabine in an OOTS film.

[Dion]

The off-putting thing for me is the demand that people absolutely *must* like a character, or else there's something wrong with *their* character, even when there are legit criticisms to be had

I don’t even know who created Rey, or what they’ve said about the critics.

Can you point at a reference to the creator of Rey doing what you claim they do?

[Worldsong]

Actually, I'm reminded of a question I had earlier today but never voiced:

Did Anakin and Luke never get criticized for being poorly written?

So far I've seen a multitude of people argue that Anakin and Luke were just as bad as Rey, but that argument only works if Anakin and Luke were treated as being much better than Rey (as characters, not as people or combatants). Given that I've never been invested in the Star Wars franchise I genuinely don't know much about how it was received. For that matter I just don't know much about the characters or their portrayal.

[Snails]

What part of Luke being trained by Ben in the first movie did you miss?

Who was Rey's "Ben"? Who was the Jedi Master who got her started?

Ben did not train Luke to telekinesis. Ben did nothing more than coach Luke into anticipating things a little better than he already did, something that you yourself are arguing is such a small thing that should be considered qualitatively different than everything else. Is it or isn't it? Make up your mind, please.

For all we know Luke was already beginning to teach himself how to use the Force before Ben begins his training, although that point is ambiguous. In Ep. 6, Luke indicates this is possible by telling Leia that she would likely learn to use the Force soon, too, it was probably only a matter of time; in the context of that conversation, he was specifically anticipating the possibility of his own death, where there would be no one to train Leia.

Perhaps Luke was wrong. But I trust Luke's guess more than yours. Regardless, Luke's guess is canon insofar as it proves that Force self-training is not outrageously impossible in view of someone with first hand experience with the Force.

As for Rey, what got her started was feeling a Jedi and Sith trained Kylo raping her mind with the Force. She is a person with immense Force potential, to a degree that Kylo would never have imagined or guessed in a million years, and now she vividly feels the Force fishing around in her mind. It certainly seems plausible that such feelings would arouse the urge to try to employ the Force to counter the Force, regardless of whether she understood what she is doing.

Although a different universe, this is essentially Snape's method for teaching Harry the art of Occlumens, by attacking his mind with Legimens and expecting the trauma to instill the sense of urgency to build a mental barrier. Whether you like that logic or not (personally I am not a fan), it is not a weird or terrible explanation for learning such skills in broad genre of magic-infused fantasy that includes Star Wars.

[Fyraltari]

Actually, I'm reminded of a question I had earlier today but never voiced:

Did Anakin and Luke never get criticized for being poorly written?

So far I've seen a multitude of people argue that Anakin and Luke were just as bad as Rey, but that argument only works if Anakin and Luke were treated as being much better than Rey (as characters, not as people or combatants). Given that I've never been invested in the Star Wars franchise I genuinely don't know much about how it was received. For that matter I just don't know much about the characters or their portrayal.

Anakin was always criticized as being poorly written. The Prequels have got (and still get) a looooooooot of hatred. Luke, I'm not sure.

[Worldsong]

Anakin was always criticized as being poorly written. The Prequels have got (and still get) a looooooooot of hatred. Luke, I'm not sure.

So... The male protagonist of the second trilogy gets the same kind of criticism as the female protagonist of the third trilogy? Wouldn't that kind of run counter to the argument that criticisms towards Rey are motivated by sexism?

[KorvinStarmast]

I have watched them. As I said, I decided I was done with the series after I failed to enjoy them (specifically, the prequels).

The first movie (Star Wars) and the second movie (Empire Strikes Back) were good enough.

The "prequels" with Anakin and Jar Jar were not good.

But I do recommend a prequel movie that was "right before the first movie" and discloses how the rebels got ahold of the plans to the death star.

Rogue One. It did a decent job of capturing the feel of the original movie.

The last two? (TFA and TLJ?) If you disliked the prequel trilogy, you'll likely not care for those two either. Disney had a chance to improve the franchise .... and missed it.

So I'll say again: Rogue One is worth a look.

[Fyraltari]

So... The male protagonist of the second trilogy gets the same kind of criticism as the female protagonist of the third trilogy? Wouldn't that kind of run counter to the argument that criticisms towards Rey are motivated by sexism?

they don't get the same criticism though. Rey is generally criticized for being too good at everything* while Anakin is generally criticized for being a poorly-directed, poorly-acted character with no chemistry with anyone and no believable motivations for his actions*. And the Skywalker Whining Gene.


*Paraphrasing of common internet complaints, may or may not reflect my own opinions.

[Snails]

Anakin's abilities have an established reason in the narrative. It is heavily implied that Palpatine literally created him out of the Force itself. So there is an actual narrative reason for Anakin's abilities in the first movie, which, if I recall, were pretty much just pod racing and robot building (can't remember if he does a mind trick as a kid or not because who would rewatch the prequels enough to notice, anyway?). My point is that Rey does not have even that little detail anywhere in the narrative. Maybe it's in some supplemental materials somewhere, but I don't read those, and I expect a movie and its characters to stand on their own.

Anakin is an actual Mary Sue.
Pod racing.
Starfighter flying.
Robot building.
Fixing machines by hitting them like the Fonz.
There is just nothing that the tyke every tries for which he is not supremely awesome far beyond his years.

(If they just stuck with the pod racing, I would have totally bought it without blinking.)

In the context of the SW universe, yes, you can be very good at something you only know only a little about, for no other reason than you are strong in the Force. That appears to be canon.

Talking about Rey as Mary Sue doesn't make any sense because she it sure looks like she spent at least some time bothering to earn her skills. She fits neatly within the SW canon -- a bit too neatly for my taste. . Not liking her is perfectly fine by me. That is personal taste and there are sound reasons.

[Snails]

they don't get the same criticism though. Rey is generally criticized for being too good at everything* while Anakin is generally criticized for being a poorly-directed, poorly-acted character with no chemistry with anyone and no believable motivations for his actions*. And the Skywalker Whining Gene.

Let's hone in on the issue more precisely.

• Luke was criticized for whining and mediocre acting in the performance. But people liked him enough and never poured on hatred, although his heartfelt conversations with Leia in Ep.6 were soundly mocked.
• Anakin is waaaaaay too good at everything, plus his motivations and emoting were often cringeworthy. That is bad writing.
• Rey is too good at a few things. That is bad writing, plus SJWers ruining the SW universe, allegedly.

For my money, the problems with Rey stem from her fitting too well within the traditions of the SW universe. But, because she is female, fitting into the SW universe is suddenly evidence of "SJWers ruining the SW universe".

[Worldsong]

they don't get the same criticism though. Rey is generally criticized for being too good at everything* while Anakin is generally criticized for being a poorly-directed, poorly-acted character with no chemistry with anyone and no believable motivations for his actions*. And the Skywalker Whining Gene.


*Paraphrasing of common internet complaints, may or may not reflect my own opinions.

Let's hone in on the issue more precisely.

• Luke was criticized for whining and mediocre acting in the performance. But people liked him enough and never poured on hatred, although his heartfelt conversations with Leia in Ep.6 were soundly mocked.
• Anakin is waaaaaay too good at everything, plus his motivations and emoting were often cringeworthy. That is bad writing.
• Rey is too good at a few things. That is bad writing, plus SJWers ruining the SW universe, allegedly.

For my money, the problems with Rey stem from her fitting too well within the traditions of the SW universe. But, because she is female, fitting into the SW universe is suddenly evidence of "SJWers ruining the SW universe".

Okay... so there is plenty of critique for the male protagonists as well but the amount Rey gets is considered disproportional?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Then you’ve seen Luke Skywalker save the princess and blow up the Death Star, and you’ve seen Luke lose his hand to Vader and Han Solo frozen in carbonite. You’ve pretty much seen everything that matters.

Don’t bother with the third one. There’s some Ewoks. They’re stupid. Then Luke blows up the Death Star again, for some reason.

Lando blows up the Death Star.

Actually, best part of the movie is Leia stepping up and strangling Jabba with her own chains. There's a reason she is The Princess we measure others by.

[Fyraltari]

Okay... so there is plenty of critique for the male protagonists as well but the amount Rey gets is considered disproportional?

Honestly? No. The amount of criticism Rey gets is perfectly normal for a Star Wars character that is not our Lord and Master, the True Light of the Universe, the Gonk droid. The Star Wars fandom is notoriously bad at agreeing on anything. But as I alluded too, not everyone gets criticized for the same thing and not in the same context.

ROSith* came out 14 years before the scheduled release of ROSkywalker*, the cultural zeitgeist has somewhat... shifetd, since then.

*Here's a complaint I don't hear often ; can we talk about how anoying it is that these two movies have the same initials? I'm going to have to use entire words to refer to the Star Wars titles now. The horror!