Tyranny - Small rant about a great game.

[Cikomyr]

I played Tyranny for the first time shortly after it came out. I liked the idea of a spearchucker/spear fighter character. I tried to play as the harsh, but fair voice of reason.

I was immediately caught by the story. Compared to Pillars of Eternity where I had no idea what the motivation was supposed to be early on (great world building, terrible exposition, bad start of the plot), the opening plot of Tyranny really gives you purpose and, I felt, agency. That feeling hasn't changed with time.

I picked the Scarlet Chorus because I thought the if Disfavored valued their soldiers so much, then they should stay back and let the zerg rush take care of the Rebels. I didn't regretted my decision, and even now that I think I understand better the world, I think in the mindset I was, I made the right call.

So, after getting out of Vendrien Well, I met Tunon and I am asked to investigate the Archos, starting with the Voices of Nerat since we are *so* close now. Yhea sure. Also, go to the market town of something something.

Why should I go to the market town of something something? I don't know. The quest market doesn't remind me of why. I went there, visited the spire that I couldn't access, visited merchants. And left to see Nerat.

Nerat sends me to Stalwart l to investigate matters that would be embarrassing to Graven Ashe. Something about his daughter. Ok, I go there and.. No daughter. Just.. "unbroken" soldiers, and I need to find a fort now?

At this point, I was so unmotivated and guideless to do this quest, I literally quit playing. It's not that I wasn't interested in the plot, but the plot as this point was a vague mush of wtf. Plus, I started realizing how spellcasting worked, and I felt I should have made a spellcaster.

So I started playing again... Last December. I watched Noah Gervais's video on it, and it motivated me it giving it a new go. This time, I picked a spellcaster. Spellcasting is fun in this game.

I joined the Rebels this time. First mission out of the gate is.. Going to Tradetown. Again. But this time, I ain't got no other choice. So I go see everything again. I get into the spire. Again. And since I got nowhere else to go, I really dig deep and go into *every* house.

Hey!! The quest picked up! Suddenly, I learned the Spire was supposed to be.. Locked? Wtf?

The rest of the quest is interesting, sure. I recruit people to join my rebellion (so THAT's what I am suppose to do). Then I go to the Sea of Stone, and recruit *another* group of Kyros spellcaster who were apparently also on the verge of defecting (man, Kyros authority is weak). But at least, there was momentum with the Sea of Stone quest, so I never stopped a moment wondering wtf I am doing.

Also, it got me to realize the point of the metaplot at the time is gaining power of resolved Edicts. Why? What is that gonna do? No idea.

So after that, I get sent to.. Stalwart..

I **** you not. After aimlessly wandering in the first Stalwart map for 20 minutes, I quit playing *again*.

I only picked it up yesterday, after being re-motivated by rewatching Noah Gervais's video. And I discovered a somewhat clumsy and chaotic middle portion of the quest where I accidentally killed Chorus warbands, but it's okay it turned out to have been the right thing to do. I also helped defend a fort against Unfavored. THEN I finally understood the point of the quest: I need to get in the Regent Keep by using a magic doodad that was lost.

All right. Cool. Now I am interested.

So.. Twice I quit playing the game with an awesome metaplot because the local plot was ****ty and wasn't clear about what I was doing here. Also, the Tradetown quest is buggy as **** since you can access the Spire right off the bat but everyone keeps claiming its locked. Also it should be a lot more obvious what the Tradetown quest triggers are, or THAT THERE IS A QUEST TO DO. How am I supposed to know the lead Forge Brother is *just* about to finish building his stupid antimagic helmet?!

Tyranny is, overall, good. But man, am I the only one who feels some portions are just rushed "go there so you can get grabbed in the plot we prepared for you".

[Zombimode]

Hm, no, I can't say I share that feeling.

But I found Tyranny to be a pretty much flawless experience - which apparently not many people agree with. So there is that.

[factotum]

Never finished it. Couldn't really put a finger on why, to be honest--the game just did not click for me at all.

[Keltest]

Never finished it. Couldn't really put a finger on why, to be honest--the game just did not click for me at all.

Ditto. I could barely even make myself start it. I just found myself not caring about the world or the characters in the slightest. I rather had the opposite experience of the OP in that Pillars immediately started out with some compelling personal motivations for any and all characters, while this game gave me... politics. Eugh.

[Anteros]

Tyranny is like most of Obsidian's games. A very interesting setting, and story with wonderful characters....that's hindered by a sub-par combat system and an unfinished plot. I really like the game though. If they ever actually finish making it I may give it another play.

[Cikomyr]

Ditto. I could barely even make myself start it. I just found myself not caring about the world or the characters in the slightest. I rather had the opposite experience of the OP in that Pillars immediately started out with some compelling personal motivations for any and all characters, while this game gave me... politics. Eugh.

What?

I mean.. What is there are the start? You are in a caravan that gets all killed. Sole survivor of a convoy that just wanted to settle. You see a vision that kills your remaining companions. And then you arrive in a town with a madman ruler. You can decide to help or overthrow him, or just leave because it's irrelevant.

There is no plot whatsoever to begin the game. Merely a sequence of events of things that happens to you.

[Keltest]

What?

I mean.. What is there are the start? You are in a caravan that gets all killed. Sole survivor of a convoy that just wanted to settle. You see a vision that kills your remaining companions. And then you arrive in a town with a madman ruler. You can decide to help or overthrow him, or just leave because it's irrelevant.

There is no plot whatsoever to begin the game. Merely a sequence of events of things that happens to you.

Of course there is. You stumbles on a group of cultists doing something presumably unpleasant (since it killed two of them along with your friends) and then start suffering horrible visions. The plot starts almost immediately. Five minutes after that, it turns out you can talk to ghosts now. The plot goes along pretty quickly in the beginning of Pillars.

[Cikomyr]

Exactly. There's absolutely nothing to drive you except a bland mystery.

[Keltest]

Exactly. There's absolutely nothing to drive you except a bland mystery.

You don't think "Wow, im having horrible hallucinations of people being tortured and killed" is enough motivation?

[Cikomyr]

You don't think "Wow, im having horrible hallucinations of people being tortured and killed" is enough motivation?

Not really. It comes out of nowhere, happening to people I don't know, for reasons I don't understand, in a land I know nothing about.

This should have been more like receiving the Star Map vision of KOTOR regarding plot placement. Not the very first thing you experience past the tutorial. Its important to let the characters establish themselves a little bit more before they receive OMINOUS PORTENT OF DOOM.

[Keltest]

Not really. It comes out of nowhere, happening to people I don't know, for reasons I don't understand, in a land I know nothing about.

This should have been more like receiving the Star Map vision of KOTOR regarding plot placement. Not the very first thing you experience past the tutorial. Its important to let the characters establish themselves a little bit more before they receive OMINOUS PORTENT OF DOOM.

How you react to the OMINOUS PORTENT OF DOOM and the subsequent revelations is part of establishing the character. Unlike in Tyranny, your character is a complete blank slate, with a past selected entirely by you. At this point, you already know basically who you were and what you were doing there, because the game specifically asks you to decide that before dropping you into the action, so now you need to decide who youre going to be going forward.

[Cikomyr]

How you react to the OMINOUS PORTENT OF DOOM and the subsequent revelations is part of establishing the character. Unlike in Tyranny, your character is a complete blank slate, with a past selected entirely by you. At this point, you already know basically who you were and what you were doing there, because the game specifically asks you to decide that before dropping you into the action, so now you need to decide who youre going to be going forward.

Except you are *not* a blank slate.

Thats the thing that is easily missed. You are effectively the equivalent of an European migrant coming to America in the 1800s. An America that relatively recently had a massive civil war caused by religious zealot, and is suffering from a plague that cause babies to have no soul.

Thats huge. And you are never given any background on all of these before the game drops you In a Native American sacred ground where you are all killed.

Who are you? Where do you come from? Why have you left? What was awaiting you in this New Land?

[Keltest]

Except you are *not* a blank slate.

Thats the thing that is easily missed. You are effectively the equivalent of an European migrant coming to America in the 1800s. An America that relatively recently had a massive civil war caused by religious zealot, and is suffering from a plague that cause babies to have no soul.

Thats huge. And you are never given any background on all of these before the game drops you In a Native American sacred ground where you are all killed.

Who are you? Where do you come from? Why have you left? What was awaiting you in this New Land?

The game literally has you answer those questions as part of the character creation process. You can pick your nationality and social status, and one of the opening dialogues even has you pick what it was you came to the Dyrwood for, and why you left your home. You can be a pirate who got chased out of the Deadfire by a rival captain, or just a bored Aedyr upper-class man looking for a change of pace. You can be looking for fame and fortune or just a quiet place to settle down.

[Cikomyr]

The game literally has you answer those questions as part of the character creation process. You can pick your nationality and social status, and one of the opening dialogues even has you pick what it was you came to the Dyrwood for, and why you left your home. You can be a pirate who got chased out of the Deadfire by a rival captain, or just a bored Aedyr upper-class man looking for a change of pace. You can be looking for fame and fortune or just a quiet place to settle down.

And yet, none of these matter. Only the events that befell matter, not your character.

Thats my point. As Dune says: A Beginning is a Very Delicate Time.

PoE makes you create a generic background, then ignore that background to put you in a situation with strangers.

Then kill these strangers.

You effectively have two backstories from the get go, and only the second one matters. It's like if Dragon Age origin had started straight at Ostagar, but then skipped 95% of the character interaction and characterization. Why should I care about King Cailin, Duncan, or the entire plot?

Hell, in this case, you don't even have a Alistair or a Morrigan with you to serve a memorandum of the events that caused the entire plot to kick off. And instead of a Lothering that serves as a reminder of what's at stake in your quest, you wander into a village that has its own trouble.

I tell you, the opener of PoE metaplot is badly written. Maybe the opening village's internal quest structure is well made (I think it was pretty good), but what strung together all of these "here and now" elements of plot was, at first, flimsy.

Baldur's Gate had you escape your Mentor's assassins.
Neverwinter Night Shadow of Urentide has you seek out the cure for your mentor poisoners.
KOTOR has to recover a lost Jedi and escape the Sith
Mass Effect has you becoming a Spectre

Al of these objectives are laid out clearly to give you momentum to start off. The overall plot sure as hell doesn't necessarily revolve around these starting objectives, but they provide the starting impediment to get moving, and the meta plot will eventually catch up with you.

[Rodin]

I'm with Cikomyr on this one. I'm sure there was interesting plot in PoE somewhere, but the tutorial mission and the first town sure didn't reveal it. Getting introduced to your character via their war history in Tyranny was far more interesting and helped define your character in ways that impacted the plot later in the game.

Of course, it wasn't perfect. The aforementioned trader town in Tyranny? My first playthrough, I broke the entire questline by killing the main villain of that questline when he tried to make me pay a toll. I was left wandering around the area wondering what the hell I'm supposed to do now, since there was no indication that I'd broken the plot thread. The style of the game was great, and the plot was excellent in places. It just felt unfinished and unpolished.

[Keltest]

And yet, none of these matter. Only the events that befell matter, not your character.

Thats my point. As Dune says: A Beginning is a Very Delicate Time.

PoE makes you create a generic background, then ignore that background to put you in a situation with strangers.

Then kill these strangers.

You effectively have two backstories from the get go, and only the second one matters. It's like if Dragon Age origin had started straight at Ostagar, but then skipped 95% of the character interaction and characterization. Why should I care about King Cailin, Duncan, or the entire plot?

Hell, in this case, you don't even have a Alistair or a Morrigan with you to serve a memorandum of the events that caused the entire plot to kick off. And instead of a Lothering that serves as a reminder of what's at stake in your quest, you wander into a village that has its own trouble.

I tell you, the opener of PoE metaplot is badly written. Maybe the opening village's internal quest structure is well made (I think it was pretty good), but what strung together all of these "here and now" elements of plot was, at first, flimsy.

Baldur's Gate had you escape your Mentor's assassins.
Neverwinter Night Shadow of Urentide has you seek out the cure for your mentor poisoners.
KOTOR has to recover a lost Jedi and escape the Sith
Mass Effect has you becoming a Spectre

Al of these objectives are laid out clearly to give you momentum to start off. The overall plot sure as hell doesn't necessarily revolve around these starting objectives, but they provide the starting impediment to get moving, and the meta plot will eventually catch up with you.

What im reading is that you didn't care about the personal misfortune that happened to your character. Which is fine, I guess, but don't confuse your personal indifference for objectively bad design.

Your objective in PoE is to seek a cure to your hallucinations. This quickly escalates from "because they are alarming" to "because they are literally driving you completely mad." It gives just as much momentum as "somebody wants you dead" from BG or "youre a soldier (ish)" from KOTOR, and probably more than the latter because that one basically railroads you into following the plot instead of just trying to save yourself in that early stage.

[Cikomyr]

What im reading is that you didn't care about the personal misfortune that happened to your character. Which is fine, I guess, but don't confuse your personal indifference for objectively bad design.

Your objective in PoE is to seek a cure to your hallucinations. This quickly escalates from "because they are alarming" to "because they are literally driving you completely mad." It gives just as much momentum as "somebody wants you dead" from BG or "youre a soldier (ish)" from KOTOR, and probably more than the latter because that one basically railroads you into following the plot instead of just trying to save yourself in that early stage.

I didn't care because the game didn't make me care. I am [Insert PC], of the Race [Insert Race], and what that is has no influence on how I talk, how I deal with ****. At the start of PoE, I am merely the PC instead of the character I actually envisioned.

[Keltest]

I didn't care because the game didn't make me care. I am [Insert PC], of the Race [Insert Race], and what that is has no influence on how I talk, how I deal with ****. At the start of PoE, I am merely the PC instead of the character I actually envisioned.

As opposed to KOTOR, where the only thing you can pick about your character is your face and job? Or NWN where you have basically no backstory at all? Or Baldur's Gate, where no matter who you are, youre an orphan raised by a wizard in a library/temple going out into the world for the first time?

[Cikomyr]

As opposed to KOTOR, where the only thing you can pick about your character is your face and job? Or NWN where you have basically no backstory at all? Or Baldur's Gate, where no matter who you are, youre an orphan raised by a wizard in a library/temple going out into the world for the first time?

... Yes. Because for all of these, the struggle that is meant to be your impediment to act is not directly related to your character's wellbeing.

By the time you get the visions of doom and portent, you have had the time to get to know your Character and care about him.

[Keltest]

... Yes. Because for all of these, the struggle that is meant to be your impediment to act is not directly related to your character's wellbeing.

By the time you get the visions of doom and portent, you have had the time to get to know your Character and care about him.

… In KOTOR you get them literally as soon as you make landfall. In BG, you get hit with the plot as soon as you leave candlekeep. In all of these games, it happens as soon as the tutorial section ends.

[Kish]

A plague on all your houses.

[Cikomyr]

… In KOTOR you get them literally as soon as you make landfall. In BG, you get hit with the plot as soon as you leave candlekeep. In all of these games, it happens as soon as the tutorial section ends.

And in KOTOR, you also have a clear objective that allows you to advance in the plot nevertheless.

In BG, you aren't been given a strange out of context WTF plot starter. The guy from the Intro just killed Gorion, and you know you have to reach the Friendly Arm Inn.

[Keltest]

And in KOTOR, you also have a clear objective that allows you to advance in the plot nevertheless.

In BG, you aren't been given a strange out of context WTF plot starter. The guy from the Intro just killed Gorion, and you know you have to reach the Friendly Arm Inn.

I don't think "go to this inn, and then follow these strangers around on their adventures until the plot catches up to you." is that much better a plot hook than "your character is going insane unless you find somebody to fix it."

At least in Pillars youre proactively chasing somebody you know is involved. In BG it doesn't become obvious that you were doing the main plot the whole time until much later.

[Kaptin Keen]

Funny. Tyranny is one of the smoothest games I ever played. It is, quite literally, the game in which I’ve spent the least amount of time searching for the plot, or my next mission, or the mission goal.

Sadly, it’s replay value is reduced by my OCD (no, I don’t suffer from OCD). I cannot stomach Voices of Nerat - not even for the sake of playing the game from that perspective.

There really needs to be a Tyranny 2.

[Morty]

I can't say I've had that problem either. Tyranny definitely feels unfinished and unpolished, but being able to follow the main plot was never an issue for me.

Funny. Tyranny is one of the smoothest games I ever played. It is, quite literally, the game in which I’ve spent the least amount of time searching for the plot, or my next mission, or the mission goal.

Sadly, it’s replay value is reduced by my OCD (no, I don’t suffer from OCD). I cannot stomach Voices of Nerat - not even for the sake of playing the game from that perspective.

There really needs to be a Tyranny 2.

If you've sided with the Disfavored first, another option aside from the Scarlet Chorus is to join the rebels. Though I'm not sure on how to do it. I seem to have missed my chance in my first playthrough. I'm guessing my behavior until that point had locked that path off.

[Anteros]

I can't say I've had that problem either. Tyranny definitely feels unfinished and unpolished, but being able to follow the main plot was never an issue for me.



If you've sided with the Disfavored first, another option aside from the Scarlet Chorus is to join the rebels. Though I'm not sure on how to do it. I seem to have missed my chance in my first playthrough. I'm guessing my behavior until that point had locked that path off.

You have to pick certain options in the intro to even make it possible.

In general it's pretty easy though. Just don't be evil and you should end up with the rebels naturally. I did it on my first play through with no guides or anything.

[Kaptin Keen]

I can't say I've had that problem either. Tyranny definitely feels unfinished and unpolished, but being able to follow the main plot was never an issue for me.



If you've sided with the Disfavored first, another option aside from the Scarlet Chorus is to join the rebels. Though I'm not sure on how to do it. I seem to have missed my chance in my first playthrough. I'm guessing my behavior until that point had locked that path off.

The rebels insulted me on my first playthrough - so I wiped them out. Who did they think they were talking to?! Like ... trying to be defiant ... pfft!!

On my second, I tried to join with them, but .. messed up somehow, so that playthrough is incomplete. Joining was the whole point, after all =)

[Morty]

You have to pick certain options in the intro to even make it possible.

In general it's pretty easy though. Just don't be evil and you should end up with the rebels naturally. I did it on my first play through with no guides or anything.

I guess I must have done something at some point that made it impossible. Or missed something. This does inspire me a little to give Tyranny another go and pick this option this time.

[GloatingSwine]

I guess I must have done something at some point that made it impossible. Or missed something. This does inspire me a little to give Tyranny another go and pick this option this time.

There are quite a lot of ways to lock off the rebel path.

You can do it in the conquest path, if you duel the queen the rebels are locked to hostile for that playthrough.

You can also lock it off by the first screen of the actual game, what you do with the captured rebel can disable it.

Bear in mind that Tyranny is a choice between flavours of evil, the rebel path is well hidden and easily disabled for a reason.

Sadly, it’s replay value is reduced by my OCD (no, I don’t suffer from OCD). I cannot stomach Voices of Nerat - not even for the sake of playing the game from that perspective.

Spoiler: Crimson Chorus

Show

You can screw over the Voices of Nerat on a Crimson Chorus playthrough. Either kill it and assume command yourself or when you sacrifice one of your companions to it if their loyalty is high enough they take over as its dominant personality and change its behaviour to suit their own interests.

[Cikomyr]

There are quite a lot of ways to lock off the rebel path.

You can do it in the conquest path, if you duel the queen the rebels are locked to hostile for that playthrough.

You can also lock it off by the first screen of the actual game, what you do with the captured rebel can disable it.

Bear in mind that Tyranny is a choice between flavours of evil, the rebel path is well hidden and easily disabled for a reason.

Spoiler: Crimson Chorus

Show

You can screw over the Voices of Nerat on a Crimson Chorus playthrough. Either kill it and assume command yourself or when you sacrifice one of your companions to it if their loyalty is high enough they take over as its dominant personality and change its behaviour to suit their own interests.

I am the Queenslayer in my current playthrough, and I managed to swindle the Rebels to my side.

It's not that hard, just be very careful. Release all prisoners you find, be honest and straightforward with the Rebels you meet. Be ready to face hostility, but understand that this hostility comes from bitter disappointment over the past, not any real resentment against you specifically.

The Vendrian Guard mourns more the lost hope than their Queen. Give them that hope, and you can make them forget the dead body that used to rule them.