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2019-08-20, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
A character concept I've tried to make work a couple of times is "Girl gets raised by bears and is found by hunters, but also she was shapeshifted into a bear cub". Both times, the concept was stymied in small part by me not realizing the duration was so restrictive and in large part by the campaigns either crashing on the runway or falling apart in the hangar. I can't do anything about the second, but I might as well poke around with the first.
Does anyone know a way for a low-level character in Pathfinder, 5e, or a similar system to be shapeshifted into at least a weak animal for an indefinite length of time?
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2019-08-20, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Well, the wrong 5th edition (Hackmaster, not D&D), but I based my Shapeshifters on the AD&D Hengeyokai, which were reworked in the 3e Oriental Adventures.
-2 Wisdom, bonus to a stat based on their alternate form, and can change form 1/day/level... so, at 1st level, you can change to bear or from bear, but not bear to man and back (that would be 2 changes).The Cranky Gamer
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2019-08-21, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Looks like you want the Transformation line of feats. Choose Animalistic Transformation as your base and you now have unlimited duration bear transformations. Granted, the base ability essentially gives you enhanced movement and a bite attack without bear level strength but it's a good place to build from (and can add further Blank Form alterations onto bear form if you want).
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2019-08-21, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- GMT -5
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
DnD 4e druids can basically go into wild shape and never come out if they choose. Available from level 1. Notable that 4e's wild shape doesn't actually make any alterations to your stats, it's basically a toggle between which of your druid powers are available.
I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.
Shadeblight by KennyPyro
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2019-08-21, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
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2019-08-21, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- GMT -5
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.
Shadeblight by KennyPyro
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2019-08-22, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
As long as my character turns physically into a critter and doesn't just get some lame "You're human, but you've got bear arms now! Have fun until we let you get basic polymorph spells" ability to tide it over, I'm happy.
Sounds like I need to find either a Pathfinder game which uses Spheres of Power magic or a 4e game. Both of those are things I've wanted to try out anyways, so win-win.
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2019-08-22, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
No mention of the 3.5e PH2 Shapeshift druid? Unlimited duration alternate forms? No?
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2019-08-23, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
I was just about to, yeah. Shapeshift Druid, 3.5, Player's Handbook 2. Swift Action shapeshifting at will. It's a small change statwise (you get a few fixed boni), but the text explicitely says that you change into an animal. You are limited to medium sized animals at level 1, though. That said, an older bear cub is probably fine for medium size.
Last edited by Eldan; 2019-08-23 at 02:36 AM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2019-08-23, 03:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Maybe more restrictive than you're looking for (and the wrong direction?) but kitsune in PF1e get at-will standard action shapeshifting between their fox and human forms at level 1.
Last edited by Elysiume; 2019-08-23 at 03:23 AM.
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2019-08-24, 09:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
I'm not too tied to bears specifically (I'd basically just lose the allusion to Atalanta by having her raised by foxes), and I doubt there'd be much issue with refluffing a kitsune as a human that turns into a fox. (Or another smallish animal with a nasty bite.) The biggest problem is that it looks like it'd be hard to make that shapeshifting central to the character's mechanical identity the way it's central to their personal identity.
Also, minor note, but their natural form is a fox-human hybrid. They need a feat or alternate racial trait to actually turn into a fox.
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2019-08-25, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
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- Wyoming
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Technically speaking, it doesn't mandate that you actually turn into the animal. It just specifies that it is a "predatory form" and "usually a type of animal", but like 4E, leaves the details vague. Since there's no type or stat-block stealing like normal Wild Shape, and just bonuses, there's plenty of room to fluff the exact details of your "predatory form".
Then personally I'd second the hengeyokai, probably using the badger or the raccoon-dog as a base for "bear cub". Also comes with all three "forms" (human, hybrid and animal).Knowledge brings the sting of disillusionment, but the pain teaches perspective.
"You know it's all fake right?"
"...yeah, but it makes me feel better."
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2019-08-25, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
You can take an alternate racial feature to trade out the racial magic for the fox form feat, but...
How do you want to define your character's abilities? As a rogue, turning into your fox form would give you +4 dex, -2 strength, +1 natural armor, and Scent. This is a notable combat buff and stealth feature when in the wild, but it results in weapon shrinkage and lack of opposable thumbs. This tradeoff very much seems like it would cause constant shifting and be key to your character's mechanical identity.
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2019-08-25, 02:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold;24107473They need a feat [B
How do you want to define your character's abilities? As a rogue, turning into your fox form would give you +4 dex, -2 strength, +1 natural armor, and Scent. This is a notable combat buff and stealth feature when in the wild, but it results in weapon shrinkage and lack of opposable thumbs. This tradeoff very much seems like it would cause constant shifting and be key to your character's mechanical identity.
I'm not sure what's making it "feel" off. Maybe it's the inflexibility of the shapeshifting, or the fact that it's relegated to a combat buff for an unrelated playstyle instead of being a core feature supported by other stuff you get as you increase in power. (Unless there are ways to improve natural shapeshifting as you level up and I just don't know about them.)
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2019-08-25, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Talk to your GM.
If the form isn't that powerful and comes with some drawbacks (IMO, no speech, no opposable thumbs, no held weapons, limited or no worn armor, limited casting, etc, are some strong limits), and a player came to me with something like this, I'd be inclined to work something out.It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
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2019-08-25, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Swift Kitsune Shapechanger and Vulpine Pounce are admittedly the only built in support, but they are support to help you improve as you level, and the Pounce is actually a very solid combat buff.
Granted, the 4e druid mentioned upthread makes the constant shapeshifting even more core to mechanical identity from 1-30, but it does not seem like you're a fan.
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2019-08-25, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
Your best bet other than third-party/homebrew is a special race of some sort. At-will shapeshifting at first-level, at least anything more involved than transforming a limb or something, is usually beyond most feats/classes by design.
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Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2019-08-25, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
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2019-09-01, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- NYC
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Re: Non-duration-restricted Shapeshifting at First Level?
3.5e / PHB2 Shapeshift Druid ACF can take an alternate form at-will, but it's not any specific animal without your DM's adjudication.
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