Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

[Cheesegear]

Screw it, charge the Ancient too. Or put him in an Impulsor, move it 14", disembark 3", advance.

Protip: The Company/Chapter Ancient in the Drop Pod is your Warlord. He has The Imperium's Sword.

a) GW wont nerf 'A custom Chapter can be a Successor of anyone you want.'
b) GW wont nerf Knife Bois*, or Whirlwind of Rage.

*Should be noted that Incursors aren't even out yet, and already Gene-Wrought Might alone makes them a bit too good.

[bluntpencil]

I'd probably have some other character as the Warlord, and rely on the Standard of Macragge Inviolate to do its thing, staying out of reach.

The model thing is only for shooting or fighting with dying dudes, for everything else it's units.

[bluntpencil]

On a related note, this does bring up shenanigans on all these things in which free hits and wounds proc on 6s.

Crimson Fists, Ragey Knifey Boyos, and various others all do very similar. The amount of hits you can pull off with Crimson Fist Infiltrators is pretty mental.

Every 6 is two hits and autowounds. With the Bolter Drill stratagem (still a thing), those autowounds get extra attacks, too.

[Cheesegear]

The model thing is only for shooting or fighting with dying dudes, for everything else it's units.

'...models in units within...' gets me like...5% of the time, and I still think it's a stupid way to word it.

In that case, you have 3" (76.2mm) to make.
The first model in BtB is 32mm.
2" (50.8mm) coherency.
Placing one model 2" back from the first model gives you plenty of room to spare with no bull**** slow-playing by demanding that you force your opponent to wait while you measure out WTF .99 of an inch looks like.

You lose a single Incursor's attacks, in a unit of 10, you'd still have a net gain of +5 Attacks. But then you'd lose more everytime you'd have to make more than a 3" Charge on Turn 1, because your opponent knows what you're doing when they see your army list, so they deploy extremely defensively. Or, they let you deploy first, in which case they put a trash unit in front of your Incursors and put Good Stuff literally anywhere else.

[bluntpencil]

'...models in units within...' gets me like...5% of the time, and I still think it's a stupid way to word it.

In that case, you have 3" (76.2mm) to make.

Easy.

0.75" from the nearest enemy. This is where your charge stops.

1.2" from your base.

0.75" from the gap between rank one and two.

1.2" from the base in rank 2.

3.9" with minimal measuring. Everyone in the unit gets to attack, with Standard of Macragge Inviolate bonuses.

-

Of course, they might put chaff everywhere, that's right...

But that's why you have three units of Incursors.

The Chapter Master is deployed as centrally as possible and, if he really has to, can pop Inspiring Command to make sure that buff goes around.

It's not fool proof, but it keeps the opponent on the back foot, super defensive.

Also, Ultramarines have a redeployment Stratagem, and there's also the Deceit Vanguard Warlord Trait. So, yeah, deploying first isn't such a huge deal.

[Blackhawk748]

And it just doesn't stop. The goal is just to overwhelm people with constant releases and never, ever go backwards.

It's a terrible, terrible unsustainable business model. Do you know the last thing i bought from GW? It was the Ad Mech Codex when it came out and that was like...2 years ago.

I haven't been any level of excited for their new releases, mostly because it's been majority Space Marines, but even the stuff that they gave Orks weren't things anyone asked for and weren't even good.

So here I sit, not buying stuff because most of the stuff the release was either bad, I don't want, or got nerfed into the dirt before I could enjoy it. And I have very little faith that Sisters will be in a better position.

Which saddens me cuz I love my sister's.

[Cheesegear]

but even the stuff that they gave Orks weren't things anyone asked for and weren't even good.

Hey GW, want to back and make those Ork Buggies you advertised, actually good?
"Can't stop, wont stop. We're doing Vigilus now. You're on your own."

[bluntpencil]

Is the model, in a unit within 6"?
Or is the model in the unit, within 6"?

I think everyone reads it as the former because it's better. Someone with better grammar than me confirm.

It means that all models in a unit which has a model within 6" gets it.

As opposed to simply 'models within 6"'.

If you look at the Standard of Macragge Inviolate, for example, it's super clear...

"Add 1 to the attacks of models in friendly ULTRAMARINES units whilst their unit is within 6" of a model with this Relic."

I assume the language using 'model' in the first clause is because models have attacks, whilst units, technically, do not.

Meanwhile, the Astartes Banner ability does not have the word 'unit' in it when talking about retaliatory strikes.

[Cheesegear]

It means that all models in a unit which has a model within 6" gets it.

Yeah. I went and checked. Turns out 'models in units' is actually the standard way that they actually word it in this new book.

Grey Knights Rites of Battle; "...friendly Grey Knights units..."
Blood Angels'; "...friendly Blood Angels units..."
Dark Angels'; "...friendly Dark Angels units..."
Space Marines' (2019) Rites of Battle; "...models in friendly Chapter units..."

They've changed it. I don't know why.

[bluntpencil]

Yeah. I went and checked. Turns out 'models in units' is actually the standard way that they actually word it in this new book.

Blood Angels' Rites of Battle; "...friendly Blood Angels units..."
Space Marines' (2019) Rites of Battle; "...modes in friendly Chapter units..."

They've changed it.

There's a lot of standard phrases that seem to be changed at the drop of a hat, which bothers me.

They also screwed up by making some of the <CHAPTER> Stratagems be ADEPTUS ASTARTES for some reason, creating the (wrong) impression that these Stratagems could be used on non-Codex Chapters, providing that you had a Codex detachment.

Of course, I would say that all of these Stratagems will end up reprinted in the other Codexes anyway, but right now, they had to clarify that, for example, Space Wolf and Dark Angel dreadnoughts aren't quite as tough as Codex ones, for some reason.

[bluntpencil]

Okay, how to pull the same nonsense, with Crimson Fists, for even more insanity.

'Infiltrators, what are they good for?' Or 'Pedro Goes to the Gym at Night'

Edit: Scratch that, Grey Shield got nerfed.

Still, with Intercessors, it's still a thing to fire 40 shots, with 6s exploding into four hits. Add in Bolter Drill, and its 48 hits plus 48 more attacks from one squad of Intercessors that are Rapid Firing, doubling up on Crimson Fist and Imperial Fist tactics.

EDIT:

For Incursors, if there's any way to get a Chaplain near enough, to proc Exhortation of Rage...

Raven Guard Successors (Space Sharks!) can do it...

Whirlwind of Rage, plus a Chapter Master, plus a Chaplain with Exhortation of Rage, getting Shadowstepped by a Librarian, is putting out insane damage, too. Less reliable than the other stuff, though.

[LansXero]

Even worse is **** like Forgebane or Shadowspear. Like, holy ****, new models, OMG buy the box 'cause once it's gone it's gone forever. Generate FOMO like a bunch of ********s, then 3-6 months later they just...Release the thing. Except better, because now they're not ETB kits.

They are value deals for people who dont care about WYSIWYG and are plenty fine with paying 40% less for ETB versions. Running out and having to shell so much more for a plethora of bits that'll sit on boxes forever is stupid, so when new boxes come out those extra bits go on FW East bodies (or just recasts of the ETB versions; its not like using blue stuff is hard).

[Cheesegear]

There's a lot of standard phrases that seem to be changed at the drop of a hat, which bothers me.

'...models in friendly <Chapter> units...'

Could something in a friendly <Chapter> unit, not be a model?
Could a friendly <Chapter> unit, not have any models in it?

Obviously, there are models in enemy <Chapter> units. Don't buff them.
Obviously, there are models in friendly non-<Chapter> units. Don't buff units you shouldn't be.
But both of these situations can and were covered by '...friendly <Chapter> units...'

I don't know why they've changed the phrasing to include 'models in'. GW is rather infamously concerned about page space - and for fair reasons, too. But adding more words to almost every Aura in the Codex doesn't seem like it really clarifies anything.

[LansXero]

'...models in friendly <Chapter> units...'

Could something in a friendly <Chapter> unit, not be a model?

Isnt that the case for the Armorium Cherub, as well as Azrael's minions?

Could a friendly <Chapter> unit, not have any models in it?

No, but you can have extraneous stuff be in range, like grot crew for a mek gun or hobbyist junk like scenic bases or banners.

Obviously, there are models in enemy <Chapter> units. Don't buff them.
Obviously, there are models in friendly non-<Chapter> units. Don't buff units you shouldn't be.
But both of these situations can and were covered by '...friendly <Chapter> units...'

GW having a glossary for game terms that they stick to religiously is long over due, and pretty standard for any other game company. Blame Casuals who are put off by strict readings and want leeway to interpret things their way.

[LeSwordfish]

'...models in friendly <Chapter> units...'

Could something in a friendly <Chapter> unit, not be a model?
Could a friendly <Chapter> unit, not have any models in it?

Obviously, there are models in enemy <Chapter> units. Don't buff them.
Obviously, there are models in friendly non-<Chapter> units. Don't buff units you shouldn't be.
But both of these situations can and were covered by '...friendly <Chapter> units...'

I don't know why they've changed the phrasing to include 'models in'. GW is rather infamously concerned about page space - and for fair reasons, too. But adding more words to almost every Aura in the Codex doesn't seem like it really clarifies anything.

I wonder if this is standardised wording going forward for everything, which means it needs to cover the whole game, not just marines.

[druid91]

So, first look at the Iron Hands Special Character. Looks good mechanically. depending on his points. Fluff wise he seems horrid.

'Resists cybernetic augmentation' > Stares at how half of his head is replaced with cybernetics, he has mechadendrites, and the standard iron hands robot arm.

Not to mention how on earth he would maintain a position as an Iron Father while directly going against the Tempering for the 10,000 years or so before the Gaudinian Heresy which led the chapter to become more open to such stances whereas before they literally believed that the Tempering was the only way to prevent another Horus going forward and killed lots of people over it.

I like the Invuln Aura, and the targeting system. Though there's probably something insane that shouldn't be made a 2+ to hit.

[Renegade Paladin]

I don't like the inclusion of the word 'left' in the sentence, it implies that there were viable units on the table, and now there aren't.

The way the rule is written, is 'no units on the table'. This opens up the possibility that there are viable units off the table, but, in armies (e.g; in Reinforcements), but you may still Discard the Objective for free anyway.

How's this rework?

Schemes of War

At the start of the first battle round, each player shuffles their objective deck and draws a hand of 5 cards. If either player is not happy with the initial cards they draw, they can choose to place them on the bottom of their Objective deck, in any order, and draw a new hand of 4 Tactical Objective cards.

A the start of your turn, place Tactical Objective cards from your hand in play until you have 3 in-play tactical objectives or there are no more cards left in your hand. A Tactical Objective is considered to be generated when it is put in play.

When putting a Tactical Objective in play, it is either placed face up or face down, until such point it is either achieved or discarded. You can only have one face down card in play at any point, though stratagems that permit keeping your tactical objectives facedown may be used as normal to affect in play objectives. You can only achieve in-play Tactical Objectives.

After you have finished putting any Tactical Objectives in play, draw Tactical Objective Cards until you have a hand of 5 cards.

When you discard a Tactical Objective, place it face up on the discard pile. Cards in the discard pile are not considered to be in play, and are not part of your Objective deck.

Achieving Tactical Objectives

At the end of every turn (yours and your opponent's), you must check to see if you have achieved any of your in-play Tactical Objectives. If you can achieve a Tactical Objective, you must do so immediately at the end of the turn and cannot choose not to do so.

After a Tactical Objective has been achieved, it is discarded. At the end of the morale phase, you may discard any of your in-play Tactical Objectives.

Unachievable Objectives

If an Objective refers to a Keyword in your opponent's army that they don't have or is not on the battlefield, or a Keyword in your army you don't have or is not on the battlefield, you may discard it from your hand at the end of turn.

The Priority Orders Received objective is paired with another objective from your hand, rather than drawn from the deck. Priority Orders Received may be discarded from your hand at the end of turn if your Warlord has been destroyed in the same manner as an Objective that refers to a Keyword not present on the board. Similarly, the Big Game Hunter objective may be discarded from your hand at the end of turn if your opponent has no models with 10 or more wounds on the board.

[LansXero]

How's this rework?

Schemes of War
After you have finished putting any Tactical Objectives in play, draw Tactical Objective Cards until you have a hand of 5 cards.

Not sure if this is a change, but we do this after scoring, not after placing the objectives. It makes a significant difference, so if its intentional thats cool.

One thing thats not specified is what happens when the deck runs out. We've played that the discard gets reshuffled. This doesnt matter if the event is capped at 5 rounds, but if you use random game length it may.

Also, for Unachievables, the text we'll use next time is:

'If achieving a tactical objective is currently impossible, and either has never been possible or will never be possible, you may discard that tactical objective from your hand at the end of the turn, after scoring and drawing new objectives. Impossible may arise from required models / objectives / keywords / abilities / etc. not existing in either player's army lists, not being available to either player's faction, or having been destroyed during prior turns. For the purpose of THEIR OWN Objectives, Army lists with unspent reinforcement points are considered to contain any and all keywords, abilities and characteristics, until said points have been depleted.'

[Cheesegear]

Not sure if this is a change, but we do this after scoring, not after placing the objectives. It makes a significant difference, so if its intentional thats cool.

I think the intent is that if you Free Discard at the end of your turn, your Hand will be undersized in your next turn because you haven't drawn yet.

i.e;

Turn 1: Play 3. Draw 3. At the end of turn, you have an Unachievable, so you Discard. Hand Size = 4.
Turn 2: Play 3. Because you haven't drawn yet, your hand size is still 4. Which means you have less options, because you don't draw until after you play. I think this might be why you're over-rated stacking Unachievables. Because you're not supposed to Draw after discarding, you're supposed to Draw after Playing, which is a whole difference sequence.

So, after Discarding an Unachievable in Turn 1, then playing 3, your Hand Size is 1. Now Draw 4. Drawingbefore you've played your hand in the next turn is a huge change to the game.

I remember there was a thread about "What if a card game had the draw step after the play step?" well, the player wouldn't have options until their next turn. Correct. That would make the game challenging, and you - the player - would have to play around it knowing that you draw cards after playing, not before, discarding cards would **** you over at some point because you wouldn't know what options you have until after you need them.

One thing thats not specified is what happens when the deck runs out.

You're done. You can achieve no more VPs for the rest of the game unless you spend CPs to shuffle discards back into the deck. That's why aggressive cycling can shoot you in the foot, because you run out of Objectives and you lose steam hard.
This is why putting D3 Objective cards in your deck is important, because each D3 that isn't a '1', means that a card is worth more than 1 card in the deck. That's why you ditch all the SecObX and DefObX cards without even thinking. Each Objective is only 1 Point, and the requirements are specific. If your opponent sees you have a DefObX, they can potentially stop you from doing it, which means that you have a dead card now that you can't Discard until the end of your turn, which means its in Play at the start of your turn, which means your hand remains full.

inb4; So what you're saying is if your Discard pile is full, you can earn no more VPs for the rest of the game.
Correct. That's why having a good deck is a meta-game in and of itself.

This is why in Underworlds, having 12 Objectives worth 1 Glory each, might mean you score them fast an easily. But you can only score a max. of 12 Glory per game. Because your deck runs out. Meanwhile, each card in your opponent's deck is worth 2, 3 or 4 Glory, and while they're scoring slower than you, they're scoring more than you.
Building a good deck with proper win conditions is important, because decking yourself out is part of the game and it's bad.

It's also why Key Decks are...Bizarre. "Well, that's the last end step, looks like it's 12-5, I win." Hang on, i have three Keys so it's 12-15, thanks for playing.
...Wait, what?
Score slower, but score more. It's a thing.

We've played that the discard gets reshuffled.

So you have unlimited steam and aggressive cycling of the deck is strongly rewarded?

You're Drawing Cards before Playing cards, and you're shuffling your Discard pile back into your deck for free.
No wonder you strongly recommend cycling harder than on a French mountainside. You've changed the how the game is played.

'If achieving a tactical objective is currently impossible, and either has never been possible or will never be possible

That's incredibly badly worded, and forces you to hold onto dead cards that you could achieve two turns from now.

Army lists with unspent reinforcement points are considered to contain any and all keywords, abilities and characteristics, until said points have been depleted.'

...Jesus. Playing Daemons means your opponent can't Discard cards. **** me.

Witch Hunter. You're playing Khorne. So I'll just Discard this...
BUP BUP BUP BUP
I have a Bloodletter Bomb in Reserve which is clearly a Bloodletter Bomb because Khorne Characters can only summon Khorne units. But the Mission packet says I have any and everything. So you keep Witch Hunter, even though you obviously can't score it and never will. You have to put it into play as one of your three, and then Discard it.

[LansXero]

I remember there was a thread about "What if a card game had the draw step after the play step?" well, the player wouldn't have options until their next turn. Correct. That would make the game challenging, and you - the player - would have to play around it knowing that you draw cards after playing, not before, discarding cards would **** you over at some point because you wouldn't know what options you have until after you need them.

Why was that a thread? It exists, its called Keyforge, its 1st xpac had a lot less hype than launch did, pretty sure it'll fizzle out after the next xpac, because its a terrible model.

Also, you'd draw after scoring, not before putting in play, since you play objectives at the start of your turn. Doing it this way means I play objectives, and draw so I know what I'll play next turn while I can still play around it. Thats not better or worse, but very, very different. The way we do it you have to play your turn, you dont know what you'll draw after scoring, so you've got less to plan ahead with. Then turn ends, score, re-draw, and your opponent gets his turn. Ideally you'd read your cards and plan during HIS turn, so at turn start you play objectives accordingly. However, having known your hand a whole turn earlier means you do have more information to play with, so Id say its less challenging, not more.

That's incredibly badly worded, and forces you to hold onto dead cards that you could achieve two turns from now.

Much like I'd had to if I drew Assassinate and the only thing that fits are company commanders in the first floor of ruins, surrounded by several square inches of guardsmen,

...Jesus. Playing Daemons means your opponent can't Discard cards. **** me.

Actually I did put its for themselves, but maybe it doesnt need to be there.

[Cheesegear]

Much like I'd had to if I drew Assassinate and the only thing that fits are company commanders in the first floor of ruins, surrounded by several square inches of guardsmen

See, the thing is, that might be possible for some armies. You can have an Assassin show up around the corner, and target a Character. You can have Eliminators or Dark Reapers who can see through walls. You can get extremely desperate and use Orbital Bombardment. Use Grey Knights, and manifest Vortex. Do a Mind Control and have the unit of Guardsmen open fire on the Character.
Drop a ****-ton of Shuriken Cannons, kill the square inch of Guardsmen, then kill the character.
Charge through the Ruin, kill a bunch of nerds, consolidate into the Character, and Fight again.

However, if there are no Characters on the board...It's simply not possible.

There is a huge, huge difference between "This is quite difficult and I'd prefer not to do it." and 'Impossible.'

[Cheesegear]

Link to Part 1.
Of particular importanace is the wargear section, because HQs will deal with a lot of dudes with customisable wargear - 90% of which is trash, Sturgeon told me.

Spoiler: HQ

Show

Primaris Captain: By having this dude at the top of the first page, implies that GW is trying to push that this dude is the 'default' Captain, despite not being in Dark Imperium or Know No Fear. The best wargear he has access to, is the Power Fist. Unfortunately, if you want a Power Fist, GW locks you into having a Plasma Pistol as well, and that's bad. So just ignore that entire sentence and take a Power Sword The Burning Blade. Unfortunately, this dude has neither Teleport Strike and nor can he ride around in a Drop Pod, and Impulsors don't even work for Melee units so this is just...Bad. The Auto Bolt Rifle is better than the Stalker, but that doesn't matter when the model is just this...Bad. If you want a gunline Captain, there is a better one.

Captain in Gravis Armour: With T5 and 7 Wounds, the guy is a fairly decent tank. But then he has the ability to pick up extra wounds and Ignore Wounds via Iron Resolve, and is also a good candidate for Armour Indomitus. His statline is quite good. Unfortunately, he's goof'd real hard by taking a Power Fist and Master-Crafted Power Sword, which is incredibly stupid. Once again, there's nothing wrong with a model who has 5 strong attacks, but he's paying extra points to have two Melee weapons for no reason (don't worry, Guilliman himself, does it too). Despite having two decent Melee weapons, he still falls into the same trap that the above Captain does...He's simply not fast enough - in fact, he's slower than a Primaris Captain. So, yeah. This is the guy you take when your opponents start spamming attacks that can target <Characters>. If your opponents aren't able to shut down Characters, then you have nothing to worry about and you don't need this model... Despite the fact that you're probably going to end up with 3 or 4 of them if you're on a budget.

Captain in Phobos Armour: Coming in cheaper than a Gravis Captain by virtue of not bringing two weapons that compete with each other, this guy comes with a decent Carbine that can target <Characters>. However, it's only 1 shot, and a S4 one, at that. But even one shot with a Carbine per turn against a Character is still more than Gravis Captain is going to do with two Melee weapons. Additionally, his Carbine is an Assault weapon, so he's perfectly happy moving about the board if that's what you want him to do, since he actually can keep up with Infiltrators and Incursors 'cause he's got Concealed Positions too. But the key reason why this guy is so strong, is that units can't be set up within 12" of him. This means that your opponent can't teleport Tzaangors or Meganobz at you, which is amazingly helpful when you're talking about board control, but, even then, a Phobos Captain is anti-alpha strike, and that's all you really need. The dude should also almost always have a 1+ Save.
Interestingly, this is the only Character in the entire book that it's worth taking Purgatorus on by virtue of the fact that he can't take any other weapons. That being said, how 'bout you don't do that, and just put any other Relic on any other model?

Captain in Terminator Armour: 2+ Saves are over-rated. That being said, this Captain can take Chainfist & Storm Shield. A Lightning Claw is good too, but you probably want to look at the next Captain for that. For no real reason, Terminator Captains are more expensive than their Primaris counterparts, which generally makes them poor picks, even this early in the Codex. That said, <Terminator> models with Storm Bolters should never be overlooked. That said, everytime you don't take a Chainfist, you could just have a Captain with Jump Pack for cheaper.

• ...in Cataphractii Armour: The other Terminator Captain. Same cost, except is better. Because he has a natural 3+ Invulnerable, you're safe to take the dual Lightning Claws for the extra attack. His weaker movement is a non-factor, because he has Teleport Strike and should never not set up 9" away from your opponent. With that said, Terminator Captains - including the above one - are very niche models that only work in certain army builds.

Captain: Regular nerd. Before you do anything, you want to drop the Master-Crafted Boltgun for a Storm Bolter. The only reason to keep the M-C Boltgun is if you're going to put on Primarch's Wrath. In any case, if your Captain isn't riding in a Drop Pod, then he's on the gunline. Throw on a Storm Shield if you want or if your opponents are particularly aggressive. There's really not much to say - he hands out re-roll 1s to hit. If you're running a Melee Captain (in a Drop Pod), Teeth of Terra and Burning Blade are far and away the best choices. If you don't want to burn your Relic slot or a CP on your Captain, you can always settle for a Thunder Hammer or Power Fist - that being said, Thunder Hammers are 40 Points, so you'd better be sure you know what you're doing. Burning Blade & Storm Shield is a very efficient combination.

• ...on Bike: The main reason to take this Captain is so you can have Twin Boltgun and Storm Bolter for a total of 8 Rapid Fire Bolt shots on a <Biker> model. Throw on a Storm Shield to make the T5 and 6 Wounds actually mean something.
• ...with Jump Pack: It's a Melee Captain that isn't reliant on a Drop Pod. Having <Fly> means he can jump over terrain and units. But since he can't Charge over Infantry screens, he'd better be able to deal with massed blobs of Infantry before he gets to his real target. Teeth of Terra and Fighting again is always solid, especially since Teeth of Terra is S5, AP-2 is good against everything.

Lieutenants: HQ choice that hands out re-roll 1s to wound. His weapon options are basically the same as the Captain's, except now he can't take Storm Shields. Interestingly, Lieutenants come with WS2+, and BS3+, the implication being that Lieutenants are better in Melee than Shooting. Then again, Lieutenants only have 3 Attacks, whilst a Storm Bolter has 4. So yeah, get rid of the M-C Boltgun that costs points that you're bad with. His 3 Attacks means he's a poor choice to run Relic weapons, and his inability to re-roll 1s to hit (by himself), means he's a poor choice to run Power Fists and Thunder Hammers. So if you're going to run a Lieutenant with a Melee weapon, run a Power Axe. It's cheap. It's good. It's cheap and good.

• ...with Jump Pack: Not really necessary. But nothing's changed - Storm Bolter & Power Axe, and done.

Primaris Lieutenants: For what it's worth, M-C Auto Bolt Rifles have 3 shots, but then again, Lieutenants are BS3+, and it's S4, AP- which is nothing. For the same cost you can pick up a Power Sword. It doesn't really matter how you spend your 4 Points unless your opponents are really aggressive, and then you'll want the Power Sword.

Lieutenants in Phobos Armour: Unlike other Phobos HQs, this guy forgot how Concealed Position works, and so instead shows up on Turn 2 like an idiot. That said, if he's not going to do anything until Turn 2, maybe Tactical Doctrine is up to give him AP-1 on his Carbine. Combat Knives vs. Paired Combat Blades is essentially neglible, so it doesn't matter. The big argument is Heavy Bolt Pistol vs. the Carbine...The Carbine wins, even though it costs points. Even then, by forgetting how Concealed Position works, this is by far the worst Phobos HQ, and it's lucky that Infiltrators can pick up his Aura anywhere on the board, because you're just going to stick him in your gunline anyway, right?

Librarian: With access to the Librarius Discipline, his focus is on buffing your units. Except a Chaplain is arguably better at it, for less Points, and Chaplains can't be Denied and don't get shafted by your opponent tailoring in a Culexus Assassin. There is very little difference between the various Force Weapons. The Force Axe is the best, obviously, but it costs 2 Points extra. But, really, your Librarians should never, ever be in Melee with anything stronger than a Space Marine Centurion (T5, 3 Wounds), in which case, Force Staves are pretty decent against all but the toughest of targets, and if you're pitting your Librarian against Daemon Princes, you'd better be running Null Zone and have backup.

• ...with Jump Pack: Nothing changes except your Librarian is more expensive.

Primaris Librarian: Nothing changes except your Librarian is more expensive...And can only take a Force Sword.

Librarian in Terminator Armour: How desperately do you really need one more <Terminator> Storm Bolter in your list, and even then...No, really...Do you?

Librarian in Phobos Armour: Despite being unequivocally better than the normal Primaris Librarian, Phobos Librarians still cost the same points. The only difference is you have to pay +3 Points for the Camo Cloak. Okay? Pay 3 Points for a 1+ save. Life over, right? In any case, with drawing its Powers from the Obscuration Discipline, this guy is focused on debuffing your opponents units, which is always very handy, especially if you're backing him up with Incursors. Having Concealed Position is an extremely strong start, and might put your Psychic Hood within range on Turn 1. A very strong model, even if the model itself, is a meme.

Primaris Chaplain: ...Is like a normal Chaplain, but more expensive.

Chaplain: At the start of the Battle Round - even if your opponent goes first - roll a 3+ and do a Litany - pick your favourite. The obvious downside is that if you should fail the 3+, then your Chaplain is doing ****-all and what did you even bring him for? ...Then again, what does a Librarian do if they fail their Psychic test? Not only that, but Librarians can also be Denied, too. A Librarian has two failure points, whilst a Chaplain only has one. In any case, Lieutenants always work, all the time. Do what you want. That being said, if you're ever taking units that are larger than 5 models, or your opponent is doing Leadership shenanigans, <Chapter> units within 6" always use the Chaplain's Leadership. Which has a few niche uses. But not that many to get excited over.

• ...with Jump Pack: Power Fists are always solid. But there's also Benediction of Fury. But, then again, you don't really need a Jump Pack when you could be in Drop Pods, instead.

Chaplain in Terminator Armour: Packing that Storm Bolter and 2+ Save. What else is there?

Techmarine: Drop the Power Axe for a free Chainsword because a Techmarine has WS3+ and why are you paying points to fail - it's not rocket science. Exchange the Bolt Pistol for a Boltgun or Storm Bolter, and done. Servo-Arms, being free, are always good to have more of, so if you want you can take the full Servo-Harness and get even more ranged weapons - the key to this is that you don't have any Pistol weapons, even the Plasma Cutter is an Assault weapon. So yeah. With BS2+, pack as many ranged weapons as you can and shoot all of them. Healing Vehicles is also pretty neat if you run a lot of 'em. But, make note that Thunderfire Cannons bring Techmarines with them, and it's not neccessary to burn your HQ slots on Techmarines if what you need them to do is heal Vehicles that don't leave your own DZ.

[9mm]

So I have a question, can anyone think of specific reason why the guy taking 70 stalker bolt rifles to the LGT included a single 10 man intercessor squad with normal rifles? outside of not having the models, obviously.

[Renegade Paladin]

Not sure if this is a change, but we do this after scoring, not after placing the objectives. It makes a significant difference, so if its intentional thats cool.

The Re-prioritize stratagem gets a lot less attractive if you do it that way. It's in the mission and costs 2 Command Points; if I get to cycle my hand at the end of the previous turn, why would I ever need to use it? Also, doing it after Scoring means cycling your hand twice every battle round instead of once since you also have a scoring step at the end of your opponent's turn.

One thing thats not specified is what happens when the deck runs out. We've played that the discard gets reshuffled. This doesnt matter if the event is capped at 5 rounds, but if you use random game length it may.

I believe that's covered by, "Cards in the discard pile are not considered to be in play, and are not part of your Objective deck." I try not to write redundant rules because limited page space; this is already a two page mission, which is really unusual for our mission packs.

Also, for Unachievables, the text we'll use next time is:

'If achieving a tactical objective is currently impossible, and either has never been possible or will never be possible, you may discard that tactical objective from your hand at the end of the turn, after scoring and drawing new objectives. Impossible may arise from required models / objectives / keywords / abilities / etc. not existing in either player's army lists, not being available to either player's faction, or having been destroyed during prior turns. For the purpose of THEIR OWN Objectives, Army lists with unspent reinforcement points are considered to contain any and all keywords, abilities and characteristics, until said points have been depleted.'

This is literally what Cheesegear said was different that I changed in this version.

[Voidhawk]

Could a friendly <Chapter> unit, not have any models in it?

Fortifications. The Aegis Defence Line doesn't count as a model after it's set up.

[Renegade Paladin]

Fortifications. The Aegis Defence Line doesn't count as a model after it's set up.

It also doesn't have the <Chapter> keyword.

[druid91]

'...models in friendly <Chapter> units...'

Could something in a friendly <Chapter> unit, not be a model?
Could a friendly <Chapter> unit, not have any models in it?

Obviously, there are models in enemy <Chapter> units. Don't buff them.
Obviously, there are models in friendly non-<Chapter> units. Don't buff units you shouldn't be.
But both of these situations can and were covered by '...friendly <Chapter> units...'

I don't know why they've changed the phrasing to include 'models in'. GW is rather infamously concerned about page space - and for fair reasons, too. But adding more words to almost every Aura in the Codex doesn't seem like it really clarifies anything.

Perhaps to be a counter to chaining? I know that was a thing in some metas.

You have a unit that passes out an Aura buff. You string your squads along so that one or two guys is just inside the bubble.

[Forum Explorer]

Perhaps to be a counter to chaining? I know that was a thing in some metas.

You have a unit that passes out an Aura buff. You string your squads along so that one or two guys is just inside the bubble.

To my understanding, chaining still works. The wording is just different and odd. Maybe it translates better or something?

[Cheesegear]

Don't know where to put it. Not enough to start a new Thread over, and anyone who cares will post and then we're done...

Blood Bowl Tournament (n=12) on the weekend. A much better turnout than last time, 'cause last time actually went well so people knew that a BB tournament wont be a ****show and maybe it's worth coming to? Took my Dark Elves again, they've never let me down:
Linemen (x6)
Runner
Blitzers (x4)
Re-rolls (x2)

Round 1 vs. Humans.
Lucky Ogre messed me up real bad, and the dude wasn't afraid of Fouling which pissed me off a lot and gave me an awful second half.
Draw 1-1

Round 2 vs. Ogres.
Elves vs. Ogres goes exactly as you expect. Snotlings have AV5 and for no reason at all I couldn't seem to Break anything. Still, Dodge around the big ones and triple die block vs. the small ones.
Win 3-0

Round 3 vs. Skaven
Kick off! Blitz! First bash of the game before Turn 1 has even started results in an Injured Gutter Runner. Still a very close game that came down to the wire.
Win 2-1

Going 2-1-0 had me freaked out. I thought I was going to lose on SPPs to the Skaven player. But then I remembered that I have a Draw, and not a Loss, and I also scored 3 TD SPPs in Game 2 and that's what won me the tournament for the second time in a row.

[JNAProductions]

So, thoughts on Iron Hands Attack Bikes?

37 points for 4 T5 3+/6+++ wounds, 4 Bolt shots, and 3 Heavy Bolter shots (AP-2, RR1s, and no move and shoot penalty in Dev Doctrine) seems pretty nice.