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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xenopax's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Troll would work well enough 3.5 or pathfinder. Did you mean to link rock troll? Not sure I'd be willing to have something that can't ever go near sunlight. I don't see the campaign shifting to the underdark soon or similar.
    Nah I meant the normal Troll my bad. He's turned into a spell less blood rager for that thicc resistance to spells.
    Linkie
    Omnissiah grant me the strength to change what I can,
    the patience to accept what I cannot,
    and CHAINFISTS FOR HANDS. Amen.
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    when an imperial knight says it wants to stick you in a large arena in which to fight to the death, you can't exactly say no.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    By the way, for Rainbow Servant, do you treat it as a 6/10 progression (table), or 10/10 (text)? Not like it matters too much at level 3, I'm just sketching things out as I put his build together.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Ok two questions:
    -Is this campaign going to be the sort where large mounts are viable or will it involve lots of being in-doors.
    -If we have multiple of the same natural attack, do they stack/increase damage increment?

    I'm debating Lizardfolk/Kasatha (4 armed desert lizardfolk), lizardfolk/lizardfolk (because theres a base race one for lizardfolk squared), and lizardfolk/hobgoblin (terrifying lizardfolk).

    Looking at a Crocodile mount that becomes larger and more draconic with me.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    3.5 Expanded psionics handbook kineticist is encouraged. Pathfinder 1.0 had a kineticist that was odd and I'd need to review for understanding. But I don't believe it was high powered. Which version? Triton would be fine, though likely less than three monster levels. So templates are something would be needed.
    Pathfinder 1.0 Kineticist is a completely different class. So I would like to play it if that's okay.
    Last edited by Almostdead; 2019-09-02 at 06:06 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Looks very good, but hover may be more effective than improved flight as a feat. Either way retraining once you hit good maneuverability naturally.
    I'll keep improved flight, the DC for Hover is 15 and Gudu's modifier to Fly is +13 so I'd rather have better overall control of flight.

    As mentioned before the main build is ready, I'm just unsure about going Sylph, Human or Tiefling... Not that it matters much besides shuffling dex and con around. You mentioned earlier that Athasian human was an option, with or without LA?

    And that last feat, can't decide between shape soulmeld or hidden talent.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    By the way, for Rainbow Servant, do you treat it as a 6/10 progression (table), or 10/10 (text)? Not like it matters too much at level 3, I'm just sketching things out as I put his build together.
    10/10 Progression, consistently text trumps table for me. As always, I ignore this when RAW threatens the entire campaign balance, and/or overwhelm party balance. Also known as rule 0.

    This is real world years off at minimum, but note you don't get the entire cleric list for casting. You can pick individual spells, and I have generously retraining rules so quickly swap out a dozen or more. Also use wands of lesser vigor and restoration, or staves with cleric spells at full caster level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Almostdead
    Pathfinder 1.0 Kineticist is a completely different class. So I would like to play it if that's okay.
    Approved, pathfinder srd classes consistently will be.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5ColouredWalker
    Ok two questions:
    -Is this campaign going to be the sort where large mounts are viable or will it involve lots of being in-doors.
    -If we have multiple of the same natural attack, do they stack/increase damage increment?
    I use 3.0 large(tall)=5'X5' and large(long)=5'X10' rules, so large is just fine. Most dungeon hallways will be 10' wide, occasionally wider. Doors may be 5' or a bit less. Huge mounts may be mildly cramped in hallways, and incapable of charging through a door. (move action to squeeze or worse) Gargantuan or Colossal are severely discouraged. Large size with the feat to increase carrying capacity are a good idea.
    Generally they overlap. If you have a bite and 2 claws from both sides, you take the bite that does the most damage and the claw version that does the most damage. If you had 2 claws for 1d8 on one side and 4 claws for 1d6 on the other, I'd allow 4 claws for 1d8. Generally though, overlap not stack.
    I'll keep improved flight, the DC for Hover is 15 and Gudu's modifier to Fly is +13 so I'd rather have better overall control of flight.

    As mentioned before the main build is ready, I'm just unsure about going Sylph, Human or Tiefling... Not that it matters much besides shuffling dex and con around. You mentioned earlier that Athasian human was an option, with or without LA?

    And that last feat, can't decide between shape soulmeld or hidden talent.
    Either way. Hover as the 3.5 feat wouldn't require a check. Don't expect fly checks until winds are forcing you around, as a rule.
    Athasian human as an option is +0 LA.
    Feats are PHB II retrainable for free in downtime. Think 2 days plus, so impossible under a time-pressured lengthy overland chase. (LotR chasing after the orcs who captured the hobbits)
    Last edited by Covenant12; 2019-09-02 at 09:15 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    10/10 Progression, consistently text trumps table for me. As always, I ignore this when RAW threatens the entire campaign balance, and/or overwhelm party balance. Also known as rule 0.

    This is real world years off at minimum, but note you don't get the entire cleric list for casting. You can pick individual spells, and I have generously retraining rules so quickly swap out a dozen or more. Also use wands of lesser vigor and restoration, or staves with cleric spells at full caster level.
    I'm aware, and I figured the spells would need to be taken as spells known still. I'm not interested in going fully bonkers with it (otherwise I'd go rainbow warsnake), I'm just wanting to use it as the best way I know to mimic the natural spellcasting of a metallic dragon (pick sorcerer or cleric spells, as well as from a few domains). Sadly I'd have to rely upon UMD for the wands of lesser vigor until he gets to level 14-16, but I'll hopefully be able to pick up some support spells through the sorcerer side until then.

    So far got the rough mechanics put together for Kaldakcazil, the Errant 'Wolf'.

    For fluff, he tends to be seen disguised as a talking wolf thanks to a Pearl of Speech. Mechanically, if he knows about Fleshrakers, he could assume their form for an impressive pounce and combat routine, until being a, well, dragon becomes his most viable combat option (I was also thinking of giving him barding for the wolf form, but defaulted to mage armor since barding would interfere with spells). I'm also contemplating dropping the paladin levels and perhaps going straight sorcerer, both to not step on the Astral Deva's toes, and to give a bit more early spellslinging oomph to assist everyone (as well as earlier entry into rainbow servant). Besides, does leave the possibility Kaldakaczil could instead become more taken to the devotion of a paladin by observing and learning from his party member, even if he does worship a different god. I've also not yet come up with what sorcerer bloodline to go down, leaning towards Imperious for flavor.

    That aside as I put more final details and write up a formalized backstory, two three final questions.
    1: Can Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell allow for earlier entry into Prestige Classes like Rainbow Servant?
    2: Does the +2 skill points per level only exist on the class side, or can they apply to the monster/hit die side if they're higher? Dragons get six skill points per hit die, which is quite a bit better than the sorcerer or paladin's 2.
    3: Do permanent increases to intelligence provide retroactive skill points, at least if they're gained from the monster side savage progression?

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    So, thinking on going Unseelie Magic blooded Gnome Gloura // (3.5)Bard, think the racial progression should be like this?:

    - Traits: as Fey

    - Spellcasting: As Bard

    Lv Features
    1 Dex+2, Cha+2, DR 2/Cold Iron, Darkvision 60ft, Fly 60ft(good)
    2 Wis+2, AC+1(Deflection)
    3 Dex+2, DR 4/Cold Iron, Unearthly Grace
    4 Con+2
    5 Dex+2, Cha+2, DR 6/Cold Iron, AC+2(Deflection)
    6 Con+2
    7 Dex+2, DR 8/Cold Iron
    8 AC+3(Deflection)
    9 Dex+2, Cha+2, DR 10/Cold Iron
    Last edited by Drako_Beoulve; 2019-09-02 at 03:36 PM.
    3.99 Project, Trying to Improve the 3.5 version, current fixes:

    - Soulknife Fix
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  9. - Top - End - #39
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Triskavanski's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Alright so here is a few ideas I've got so far..



    "Sneaky Pete"
    Kitsune Ogre
    Ninja Ogre class
    Ninja Ogre Class
    Ninja Ogre Class


    1: Skill Focus: Stealth
    3: Night Stalker

    Sneaky Pete is a really big fox, who surprisingly is unusually stealthy.



    Idea 2

    Shezra The Gnoll

    Human Gnoll
    Brawler Gnoll
    Brawler Gnoll
    Brawler Gnoll

    Shezra is your rough and tumble type of brawler. Solves problems by punching it till it stops being a problem.


    idea 3

    Mercury

    Warforged Doppleganger?
    Stalker Vigilante Doppleganger?
    Stalker Vigilante Doppleganger?
    Stalker Vigilante Doppleganger?

    Mercury is a liquid metal assassin, that is suppose to shift and reshape like the liquid metal terminator. I don't know what to use for the second race though
    Animated Spellcards from the Deck of Many Things
    A game I found interesting Aegis: Innocence

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    For the Giant Owl character, would I be able to take the Nature Fang druid archetype for the Pathfinder Druid?

    It makes them more fight-y at the cost of wildshape and some other less important stuff.
    I'd also be trading out an animal companion for the Air domain as per the Pathfinder version of animal companion ("Nature Bond")

    If that's kosher then I'll commit to that character concept. So a savage progression for a Giant Owl would be in order.

    I made a very basic one here...
    Owl!
    Base: Medium magic beast, Low-Light Vision, +2 Listen, +2 Spot, +2 Move Silently (while flying), 10' speed, fly 30' (average), 2 claws (1d4)
    1 HD 1st: +2 Str, +2 Wis +1 NA
    2 HD 2nd: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +20' fly, Superior Low-Light Vision, +2 Spot
    2 HD 3rd: Size Increase (Large, gain bite), +2 Con, +2 Listen, +4 Move Silently (while flying), +1 NA
    3 HD 4th: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Listen, +20' fly
    4 HD 5th: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Move Silently (while flying), +1 NA

    bonuses should total out to +8 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Wis, +8 Listen, +4 Spot, +8 Move Silently, +3 NA; I think that covers everything
    Obviously I'm open to changes and suggestions.
    Last edited by Anachronity; 2019-09-02 at 03:01 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    So found this thought it might at least be helpful for the dm for a reference on someone else with complex races.


    https://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=469470

    https://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=439808

    Since rune hound seems not to be able to talk, which may be bad for pbp. Would displacer beast be acceptable?

    The incarnate I'm looking at is the one from magic of incarnum.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xenopax's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Made a little adaptation specifically for this game to turn the normal troll into the Jotunn Troll
    Spoiler: Troll Table
    Show

    Level Class Feature Stat Increase
    4 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+1), Multiple Minds (+1) +1 Nat Armor
    5 Regeneration (+1) +1 Nat Armor
    6 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+2) +2 str, +1 Con, +1 Nat Armor
    7 Regeneration (+2), , Immunity (Confusion) -2 Dex, +2 Nat Armor
    8 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+3), Multiple Minds (+2) +1 Con, +1 Nat Armor
    9 Regeneration (+3) +2 str, +1 Nat Armor
    10 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+4), Size Increase +1 Con, +2 Nat Armor
    11 Fast Swallow, Swallow Whole, Rock Throwing +2 str,+1 Nat Armor
    12 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+5), Multiple Minds (+3) -2 dex,+2 Nat Armor
    13 Regeneration (+4) +1 Con,+2 Nat Armor
    14 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+6), Multiple Minds (+4) +2 str, +1 Nat Armor
    15 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+7), All around Vision, Regeneration (+5), Immunity (Insanity) +1 Con, +1 Nat Armor
    16 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+8), Cacaphonus Roar, Multiple Minds (Reroll) +2 str, +2 Con, +2 Nat Armor

    I didn't put the Mental advances there on purpose because it felt a little iffy. I feel like my char should earn those through the normal stat advances cause Experience and all that. I can add them if it's wanted?
    Omnissiah grant me the strength to change what I can,
    the patience to accept what I cannot,
    and CHAINFISTS FOR HANDS. Amen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timble View Post
    when an imperial knight says it wants to stick you in a large arena in which to fight to the death, you can't exactly say no.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    Made a little adaptation specifically for this game to turn the normal troll into the Jotunn Troll
    Spoiler: Troll Table
    Show

    Level Class Feature Stat Increase
    4 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+1), Multiple Minds (+1) +1 Nat Armor
    5 Regeneration (+1) +1 Nat Armor
    6 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+2) +2 str, +1 Con, +1 Nat Armor
    7 Regeneration (+2), , Immunity (Confusion) -2 Dex, +2 Nat Armor
    8 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+3), Multiple Minds (+2) +1 Con, +1 Nat Armor
    9 Regeneration (+3) +2 str, +1 Nat Armor
    10 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+4), Size Increase +1 Con, +2 Nat Armor
    11 Fast Swallow, Swallow Whole, Rock Throwing +2 str,+1 Nat Armor
    12 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+5), Multiple Minds (+3) -2 dex,+2 Nat Armor
    13 Regeneration (+4) +1 Con,+2 Nat Armor
    14 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+6), Multiple Minds (+4) +2 str, +1 Nat Armor
    15 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+7), All around Vision, Regeneration (+5), Immunity (Insanity) +1 Con, +1 Nat Armor
    16 Extra Head, All Seeing Attacks (+8), Cacaphonus Roar, Multiple Minds (Reroll) +2 str, +2 Con, +2 Nat Armor

    I didn't put the Mental advances there on purpose because it felt a little iffy. I feel like my char should earn those through the normal stat advances cause Experience and all that. I can add them if it's wanted?
    Didn't DM said RHD+LA up to 10 Levels?
    Last edited by Drako_Beoulve; 2019-09-02 at 05:23 PM.
    3.99 Project, Trying to Improve the 3.5 version, current fixes:

    - Soulknife Fix
    - Samurai Rework
    - Paladin Fix

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xenopax's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drako_Beoulve View Post
    Didn't DM said RHD+LA up to 10 Levels?
    Ahh hell. If he did then I didn't notice. My bad.
    Still I need to find a way to get my thing up to 10 levels. Advanced Troll atm only does six. Or can I just begin doing class levels from there? Builds kinda simple atm so not sure what I would do from there but aight!
    Level Stat Increase
    4 +1 all stats, +1 Nat Armor
    5 +1 all stats
    6 +2 all stats, +1 nat armor
    Last edited by Xenopax; 2019-09-02 at 06:24 PM.
    Omnissiah grant me the strength to change what I can,
    the patience to accept what I cannot,
    and CHAINFISTS FOR HANDS. Amen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timble View Post
    when an imperial knight says it wants to stick you in a large arena in which to fight to the death, you can't exactly say no.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    I think I can quickly get a character ready by tonight if you guys are still looking for players. or do you think he will be too big? Also, will Tomb of battle classes be allowed.
    Last edited by Stormwolf69; 2019-09-02 at 07:31 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    I'm aware, and I figured the spells would need to be taken as spells known still. I'm not interested in going fully bonkers with it (otherwise I'd go rainbow warsnake), I'm just wanting to use it as the best way I know to mimic the natural spellcasting of a metallic dragon (pick sorcerer or cleric spells, as well as from a few domains). Sadly I'd have to rely upon UMD for the wands of lesser vigor until he gets to level 14-16, but I'll hopefully be able to pick up some support spells through the sorcerer side until then.

    That aside as I put more final details and write up a formalized backstory, two three final questions.
    1: Can Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell allow for earlier entry into Prestige Classes like Rainbow Servant?
    2: Does the +2 skill points per level only exist on the class side, or can they apply to the monster/hit die side if they're higher? Dragons get six skill points per hit die, which is quite a bit better than the sorcerer or paladin's 2.
    3: Do permanent increases to intelligence provide retroactive skill points, at least if they're gained from the monster side savage progression?
    Probably can't go into detail on everything tonight. I'll look further on that dragon magazine article, might be another option for cleric spells.

    1: Sorry, no. For theurge builds yes, for a straight casting PrC you need the actual casting.
    2: Whichever side has more at each level. Dragons get 8, outsiders 10.
    3: Pathfinder rules. Not only do increases change skills retroactively, headband of int does too after 24 hours. So mineral warrior causes you to lose skill points. Easier to track, best not to think on the logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drako_Beoulve
    So, thinking on going Unseelie Magic blooded Gnome Gloura // (3.5)Bard, think the racial progression should be like this?:
    Underdark Gloura? I'd have to look at that tomorrow. Note that I'm reading unearthly grace as intending Cha to AC as deflection bonus, not unnamed. You'd have flight by level 3, likely not 60' and good yet. Magic blooded is fine, Unseelie had some oddities, I'll check.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triskavanski
    Mercury is a liquid metal assassin, that is suppose to shift and reshape like the liquid metal terminator. I don't know what to use for the second race though
    Warforged would count as your LA: +0 race and doppleganger the monster track. So that would likely set you for awhile. Otherwise any of the builds could work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anachronity
    For the Giant Owl character, would I be able to take the Nature Fang druid archetype for the Pathfinder Druid?
    Yes you would. And the giant owl progression looks solid, taking the HD out of the center and adding large size is common.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutr
    Since rune hound seems not to be able to talk, which may be bad for pbp. Would displacer beast be acceptable?

    The incarnate I'm looking at is the one from magic of incarnum.
    Since you are somehow a rune hound and a humanoid (likely) you could talk with Int 3+. Displacer beast could also work. Incarnum is approved, but I'm far from master of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax
    Made a little adaptation specifically for this game to turn the normal troll into the Jotunn Troll

    I didn't put the Mental advances there on purpose because it felt a little iffy. I feel like my char should earn those through the normal stat advances cause Experience and all that. I can add them if it's wanted?
    I appreciate the effort, but 16 RHD is a lot. It looks reasonable, I'll try for a better answer tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax
    Ahh hell. If he did then I didn't notice. My bad.
    Still I need to find a way to get my thing up to 10 levels. Advanced Troll atm only does six. Or can I just begin doing class levels from there?
    10 was a ceiling not a floor. Really troll on monster track should cover quite a few months. When that runs out if you still want a huge multi-headed troll I'm sure we could figure that out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf69
    I think I can quickly get a character ready by tonight if you guys are still looking for players. or do you think he will be too big? Also, will Tomb of battle classes be allowed.
    New interest is open until Sunday night, September 8th. So no rush, and tome of battle is liked and encouraged. There are house rules on white raven tactics and iron heart surge, but hopefully judged sane ones. I'm not seeing previous posts but 3.0 rules are large size friendly. Huge will run into occasional issues.
    Last edited by Covenant12; 2019-09-02 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Calendars are hard.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Triskavanski's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Would this work for the gnoll?

    And this one for doppleganger
    Animated Spellcards from the Deck of Many Things
    A game I found interesting Aegis: Innocence

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xenopax's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Much obliged! I'm happy to even have it looked over so that's great.
    Speaking of which could someone give this sheet a looksie? I didn't know what to spend the rest of my cash on so I grabbed a bag of tricks for him to summon animals and much on.
    https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2001147
    Omnissiah grant me the strength to change what I can,
    the patience to accept what I cannot,
    and CHAINFISTS FOR HANDS. Amen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timble View Post
    when an imperial knight says it wants to stick you in a large arena in which to fight to the death, you can't exactly say no.
    My 40k Discord Server: Join Today!
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  19. - Top - End - #49
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Given that it is level 3 start. I wonder what would be better a lizardman and LVL 2 druids// 3 crusaders. Or is there a more powerful option that I am over looking?

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Probably can't go into detail on everything tonight. I'll look further on that dragon magazine article, might be another option for cleric spells.

    1: Sorry, no. For theurge builds yes, for a straight casting PrC you need the actual casting.
    2: Whichever side has more at each level. Dragons get 8, outsiders 10.
    3: Pathfinder rules. Not only do increases change skills retroactively, headband of int does too after 24 hours. So mineral warrior causes you to lose skill points. Easier to track, best not to think on the logic.
    Right, for now I'll drop paladin levels for later at least, as getting into Rainbow Servant by 8th level would be a pretty delayed entry.

    Good to know on the skills, I'm leaning towards picking up every knowledge skill in the book to be a learned wolf lizard.

    For a feral creature speaking, I recommend the Pearl of Speech from Magic Item Compendium. 600 gp for the ability to speak the language attached to it, so long as you're intelligence irrc.

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    Right, for now I'll drop paladin levels for later at least, as getting into Rainbow Servant by 8th level would be a pretty delayed entry.
    I know it messes with your Wolf Concept. But if you picked Human as base race alongside dragon you can pick up chameleon at lvl 5 which would give you divine and arcane spellcasting right away.

    I was considering it for Gudu, but I just don't want to play a spellcaster.

    In any case, and as question for the DM, how would Able Learner work with PF skill rules?

    Currently my build is finished. But I want to leave some doors open for the imediate future. I think for now I'll play mainly as scout/archer. But as the Djinni side progresses STR becomes my best stat, so I'll pick up levels in Warblade and become a whirlwind fury of orc smashing.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Auranghzeb View Post
    I know it messes with your Wolf Concept. But if you picked Human as base race alongside dragon you can pick up chameleon at lvl 5 which would give you divine and arcane spellcasting right away.
    Yeah, there are plenty of ways to get a track of both that would likely be more effective. There's a pathfinder bloodline or two which gets some limited cleric spells picked up (something like one every third levels, I believe). Its purely building around fluff that I'm doing for it, and I'll gladly stay a pure tracked sorcerer if it becomes too much of a hassle to replicate the dragon's natural spellcasting abilities on the class-side tracked. Or go a different track and just pick up the ~5 levels of sorcerer casting he'd get from his hit dice as a supplement.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Underdark Gloura? I'd have to look at that tomorrow. Note that I'm reading unearthly grace as intending Cha to AC as deflection bonus, not unnamed. You'd have flight by level 3, likely not 60' and good yet. Magic blooded is fine, Unseelie had some oddities, I'll check.
    Ok, revamping the levels with your comments should looks like this:


    Lv Features
    1 Dex+2, Cha+2, DR 2/Cold Iron, Darkvision 60ft
    2 Wis+2
    3 Dex+2, DR 4/Cold Iron, Unearthly Grace, Fly 30ft(average)
    4 Con+2
    5 Dex+2, Cha+2, DR 6/Cold Iron
    6 Con+2
    7 Dex+2, DR 8/Cold Iron
    8 Fly 60ft(good)
    9 Dex+2, Cha+2, DR 10/Cold Iron
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  24. - Top - End - #54
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenopax View Post
    Much obliged! I'm happy to even have it looked over so that's great.
    Speaking of which could someone give this sheet a looksie? I didn't know what to spend the rest of my cash on so I grabbed a bag of tricks for him to summon animals and much on.
    https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2001147
    Looks impressive, but are you getting all the ability increases in the first 3 Troll HD?

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf69 View Post
    Given that it is level 3 start. I wonder what would be better a lizardman and LVL 2 druids// 3 crusaders. Or is there a more powerful option that I am over looking?
    Not fully following the question. The gestalt is class/monster, two class gestalt is not an allowable option. Level 3 druid is absurdly powerful and versatile (animal companion has 4 RHD and +3 BAB, and might have trip or something), crusader is a fine class.

    Gnoll progression is fine, though very weak mechanically. Doppleganger will not be +4 LA, it will be less. I could make that, possibly tonight.

    Xenopax? What version of troll do you want? 3.5, PF 1.0, variant? I'll have to make the progression. Con might be quite high, I don't see how you could hit 30 at level 3.

    Able learner is unnecessary in pathfinder, there are no cross-class costs. Short version is 1 rank per 1 point, and you don't get X4 at level 1. If any class (or race) has that as a class skill you get a one time +3 ranks, when you spend at least one point. Which does count for prestige class and other requirements.

    @Drako_Beoulve: I'm fine with level 3 for that, may need minor tweaks. If +2 LA, I'll probably make level 3 have no RHD.

    Sorry for short answers, I'll try for more detail by late tomorrow night.

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xenopax's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Not fully following the question. The gestalt is class/monster, two class gestalt is not an allowable option. Level 3 druid is absurdly powerful and versatile (animal companion has 4 RHD and +3 BAB, and might have trip or something), crusader is a fine class.

    Gnoll progression is fine, though very weak mechanically. Doppleganger will not be +4 LA, it will be less. I could make that, possibly tonight.

    Xenopax? What version of troll do you want? 3.5, PF 1.0, variant? I'll have to make the progression. Con might be quite high, I don't see how you could hit 30 at level 3.

    Able learner is unnecessary in pathfinder, there are no cross-class costs. Short version is 1 rank per 1 point, and you don't get X4 at level 1. If any class (or race) has that as a class skill you get a one time +3 ranks, when you spend at least one point. Which does count for prestige class and other requirements.

    @Drako_Beoulve: I'm fine with level 3 for that, may need minor tweaks. If +2 LA, I'll probably make level 3 have no RHD.

    Sorry for short answers, I'll try for more detail by late tomorrow night.
    I'd like the 3.5 dnd please? It seems better than the pathfinder troll.
    And yeah I may have messed up. Just added the +13 from the Troll to 17 on pointbuy
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  27. - Top - End - #57
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Kaldakaczil, The Errant Wyrmling


    Male Lawful Good Gold Dragon Draconic Sorcerer 3 || Gold Dragon 3, Level 3, Init 6, HP 41/41, Speed 40ft (Swim 40ft)
    AC 18, Touch 12, Flat-footed 12, Fort 10, Ref 10, Will 8, Base Attack Bonus 3
    Bite (Dragon) +6 (1d8+4, x2)
    Bite (Wolf) +4 (1d6+1, x2)
    Claws (Dragon) +4 (1d4+3, x2)
    Claws (Wolf) +2 (1d4+1, x2)
    Mage Armor (+4 Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Natural)
    Abilities Str 16, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 20
    Abilities, Wolf Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Natural Armor 2.
    Condition None

    Kaldakaczil is a young gold dragon, particularly gifted with spellcraft for his age. Because of this, and the wyrmling's numerous attempts to slip away from his parent's lair for adventure, the elder drakes placed the wanderlust gripped wrymling's care in a platinum knight associate by the name of Kheimir. For a time, the situation worked out well for the pair. Kaldakaczil benefited from the tempered perspective of a veteran adventurer, the young gold accrued worldly experience and an insight into a humanoid perspective. At the very least, it worked until they were ambushed outside of the High Forest by a red dragon and its agents. While the pair managed to escape, Kaldakaczil and the Platinum Knight were separated and the gold dragon was heavily wounded, leaving him limping away until a circle of druids tended to his injuries.

    While initially distraught, the dragon realized that Kheimir was far more capable of tracking him down, than he was currently of finding the platinum dragon (or travel the several hundred leagues back towards his parent's lair). The dragon instead took to a disguise in the form of a talking wolf, trotting his way towards the city of Sundabar to avoid any lingering chromatic agents, and find how to continue as an adventurer by himself. It shouldn't be too difficult, scare off some kobolds here, wrangle some goblins there. Its not like people would have a problem contracting a talking wolf or a dragon, right?

    Concept: A head strong, wanderlust gripped young dragon gifted in sorcery, currently masquerading as a wolf until he recuperates from his wounds (reaches level 8 to become a full fledged wyrmling), and learning the ropes of being an adventurer by himself, at least until he stumbles across the band of misfit. The build will either go straight casting (sorcerer into rainbow servant to mimic the dragon's racial spellcasting ability to pick up cleric spells), a standard sorceradin build, or an alternative that tries to maximize the actual spell progression from his racial hit die (earliest level of racial spellcasting would be at level 11, use of a theurge class to fill out the last eight levels for full casting after that point, and depending on your preference for cheese, kobold greater draconic rite of passage lore drake to get up to 12th level sorcerer casting on top of being a crusader/jade phoenix mage or other such build). Basically, there's a lot of flexibility along the class side for however much optimization is required.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    I have a concept for Glymir, a Lantern Archon who is the dying ember of a long forgotten goddess. Most Likely a LanternArchon3//Halfling Bard3. The LA Thread has them at LA+3, put no proposed Progression, what would be acceptable?

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Triskavanski's Avatar

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    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    Well if I can get a looksee of what the doppleganger would be to see if I could do it to make liquid metal 'assassin' type character.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    May 2015

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's (Re-recruitment)

    *Whittling down ideas*
    Ok, noting that TOB is available, how do you feel about Path of War? (Pathfinder's version), and how would you feel about refluffing Black Seraph Style (Evil/Intimidation martial arts) and a couple of damned feats into 'Wrathful Archon Style' (Good/Intimidation) and 'Blessed/Devoted' feats?
    If you're anti Path of War but ok with refluffing damned feats, I'll go Lizardfolk/X//Hobgoblin/Cavalier (A Terrifying Desert Lizardfolk). If pro path of war and refluff, than I'll probably go Kasatha/Warlord (4 armed desert lizardfolk of notable courage and charisma, who can also be truly terrifying).

    If anti path of war and refluff, then I'll go Kasatha/Fighter (Rough Rider) [Desert Lizardfolk mounted expert.]


    As for the Lizardfolk side, you said you wanted a minimum of 10 levels of advancement.

    If you're pro path of war or refluffing, I'm thinking Lizardfolk (2)/Giant Creature (1, Blackscale Lizardfolk)/Celestial Creature (1)/Advanced Creature (1)/Half Celestial (2)/Half Dragon (2)/Half Celestial (1). In this case, it'd be a Lizardfolk slowly coming into his divine and draconic nature.

    If you'd rather the fighter route, than I'm thinking Lizardfolk (2)/Giant Creature (1, Blackscale Lizardfolk)/Advanced Creature (1)/Draconic (1)/Half Dragon (2)/Monster of Legend (2?)
    If Monster of Legend is stretched over 3 levels that makes 10. I'm having trouble thinking of another level.



    Also, idea for my mount. How would you feel about a Wilderness Cohort eventually combined with a cohort (Leadership or Draconic Cohort. Maybe Squire which evolves into Draconic Cohort late and one side being an appropriate class such as warrior or barbarian), becoming a more draconic animal that's a somewhat dim but still friendly companion? Feel free to say no to this one, as it's more of a random idea.
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