innate spell worthy spell?

[kemmotar]

Are there any level 1 spells worth getting innate spell for?

For those that do not know the feat it allows a caster to cast a spell at will as many times as he wants. It requires still spell, silent spell and quicken spell. It increases the spell level by 8 levels and the spell becomes a spell like ability.

So are there any spells that are conceivably useful for this feat? Presumably 1st or 2nd...

[mostlyharmful]

just get an item, giving up a ninth level slot for charm person or magic missile as well as a high level feat slot seems like the definition of insanity to me. While wizard x can cast grease all the live long day wizard y can gate in a bound Solar and learn chain spell woot , I know which i'd want.

[GnomeNinja]

What begins with "M" and ends with "agic Missile"!

[Green Bean]

What begins with "M" and ends with "agic Missile"!

Nothing worth taking...

[Lord Tataraus]

Where is that feat? In crystalkeep, it is completely different. I know that they do make errors but this is just so vastly different:

Innate Spell [Metamagic] (PGF p39)
Pre: Silent Spell, Still Spell
Benefit: Choose a spell you know. You may use this spell 3 times per day as a Spell-Like Ability (i.e., no need for verbal, somatic, & material components). You lose one spell slot of an identical level to your Innate Spell.

You may take this Feat more than once, choosing a different spell each
time.

[Kaelik]

Where is that feat? In crystalkeep, it is completely different. I know that they do make errors but this is just so vastly different:

That is Innate Spell from Players Guide to Faerun. He is reffering to Innate Spell from Complete Arcane. If you look at Split Ray it is also very different from Faerun to Complete Arcane.

[UserClone]

My wizard would choose magic missile, but for purely fluff reasons- he is a level 5 Force Missile Mage. Besides, what does Batman care for the loss of one lousy slot? Just scribe more scrolls.

[mostlyharmful]

Where is that feat? In crystalkeep, it is completely different. I know that they do make errors but this is just so vastly different:

the crystal keep version of the metamagic is insanely broken... no component or focus, woot, give me shapechange and animate dead and true seeing. if there's no xp then it gets even more rediculous. The eight level for an at will ability is sucktastic.

[streakster]

Expeditious Retreat. Feel free to permanently run around at +30 your base speed.

That's just my two gold.

EDIT: Dont think this is a good bargain though. I mean, losing a 9th level slot? Yikes...

[Hario]

Alter Self at Will is nice for say a fly speed, but thats nothing compared to divine metamagic + persist, In no way is 8 spell levels worth anything at will of a 1st level spell, if you want an ability at will, a warlock probably has an invocation similar to what you are looking for (sure not at powerful at 1 level of warlock) but you keep your 9th level spells) Also Shapechange will give you way more for your spell level than innate spell will ever do.

[Kyeudo]

Maybe True Strike, but I wouldn't.

[mostlyharmful]

you wouldn't be able to quicken it unless you took ANOUTHER feat, so you'd use a standerd action for that true strike

[The Glyphstone]

Miracle.

Unfortunately, you need to be a 33rd level Wizard to get it (lvl32 wizard to have enough Epic Feats to spend on Improved Spell Capacity, then another feat for Innate Spell) - at which point nobody cares, because you are already broken via Epic Magic.

[UserClone]

Yipe. Now if only it didn't cost an action. Hmm...Quickened True Strike as an at-will ability...so THAT'S how Chuck Norris does it!

[Aquillion]

Hey, wait. Can you use a metamagic rod on the spell before applying Innate Spell? Rods don't increase the spell's level, so you could have, say, an Innate Quickened True Strike.

What about Divine Metamagic cheese? Does that still apply here? Spending eight turning attempts to get Miracle or Time Stop at-will would certainly be worth it... Failing that, if you had one of the various abilities that reduces metamagic cost, you might be able to do a level 2 spell, or a level 3 spell if you stack two of them somehow...

[Sornjss Lichdom]

silent image, it is one of the most versital low level spells ever, and it's the best if you have an imagination and like to make your dm made.

[The_Snark]

Hey, wait. Can you use a metamagic rod on the spell before applying Innate Spell? Rods don't increase the spell's level, so you could have, say, an Innate Quickened True Strike.

What about Divine Metamagic cheese? Does that still apply here? Spending eight turning attempts to get Miracle or Time Stop at-will would certainly be worth it... Failing that, if you had one of the various abilities that reduces metamagic cost, you might be able to do a level 2 spell, or a level 3 spell if you stack two of them somehow...

First- No... you could use the rod to quicken the spell-like ability, but that wouldn't make it always quickened.

Divine Metamagic doesn't seem to work here; it applies every time you cast the spell. I suppose it means you could cast it as a spell-like ability, without verbal/somatic components. And I don't really know of anything that reduces metamagic cost, outside of Incanatrix and epic stuff. It's something they shy away from. Arcane Thesis, maybe, but that's it.

I've always felt that getting a Cure spell at will could be worth it, but probably not unless your cleric already had Silent/Still Spell.

[Kaelik]

Alter Self at Will is nice for say a fly speed, but thats nothing compared to divine metamagic + persist, In no way is 8 spell levels worth anything at will of a 1st level spell, if you want an ability at will, a warlock probably has an invocation similar to what you are looking for (sure not at powerful at 1 level of warlock) but you keep your 9th level spells) Also Shapechange will give you way more for your spell level than innate spell will ever do.

Or you could use an eighth level slot to cast Extended Elemental Body and get 40 hours of Flight at 60ft (120ft to hustle), perfect maneuverability, oh, and immunity to sleep/stun/crits and precision damage/paralysis. But that's just gravy.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, with the relatively recent Reserve feats, Innate Spell is a lot less attractive than it was. Generally, anything that might look worthwhile for Innate Spell (e.g., a Cure spell) is going to have a reserve feat that more than covers the role.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

just become an archmage and take high arcane for a Su:, I know not what you asked on the thread, but this just seems a hole lot easier and you can get a higher level spell.

[Aquillion]

First- No... you could use the rod to quicken the spell-like ability, but that wouldn't make it always quickened.

Divine Metamagic doesn't seem to work here; it applies every time you cast the spell. I suppose it means you could cast it as a spell-like ability, without verbal/somatic components. And I don't really know of anything that reduces metamagic cost, outside of Incanatrix and epic stuff. It's something they shy away from. Arcane Thesis, maybe, but that's it.

I've always felt that getting a Cure spell at will could be worth it, but probably not unless your cleric already had Silent/Still Spell.

Why wouldn't a rod work? Innate Spell says "Choose a spell you can cast." It doesn't say "choose a spell you can cast without using items". Using a metamagic rod, I can cast a quickened true strike, which is a level 1 spell. Therefore, I can apply Innate Spell to that quickened true strike and give up an 9th-level slot.

Come to think of it, this would also work with Divine Metamagic or Lyric Spell (even though Lyric Spell fixed most of the abuses in Divine Metamagic, as long as you have a level 9 slot, you could theoretically take a level 1 spell and apply 8 levels worth of Lyric Spell metamagic to it. Therefore, that 8-level-metamagiced level 1 spell is a "spell you can cast", it's technically level 1, and you can get the ability to cast it at will with Innate Spell.)

[BardicDuelist]

The only thing I can think of is True Strike. With Quicken SLA it could be really potent. I mean, +20 for two feats and a spell slot is pretty darn good.

[Dausuul]

Why wouldn't a rod work? Innate Spell says "Choose a spell you can cast." It doesn't say "choose a spell you can cast without using items". Using a metamagic rod, I can cast a quickened true strike, which is a level 1 spell. Therefore, I can apply Innate Spell to that quickened true strike and give up an 9th-level slot.

Come to think of it, this would also work with Divine Metamagic or Lyric Spell (even though Lyric Spell fixed most of the abuses in Divine Metamagic, as long as you have a level 9 slot, you could theoretically take a level 1 spell and apply 8 levels worth of Lyric Spell metamagic to it. Therefore, that 8-level-metamagiced level 1 spell is a "spell you can cast", it's technically level 1, and you can get the ability to cast it at will with Innate Spell.)

IIRC, Innate Spell gives you a spell-like ability, not an actual spell. Metamagic rods (and metamagic feats in general) don't work on SLAs.

[EndgamerAzari]

I'm not an expert on this feat, but these folks seem to have a few good ideas....

[bugsysservant]

I'm not an expert on this feat, but these folks seem to have a few good ideas....

Are those photoshoped charlie the unicorns?

Anyway, if you can get quicken true strike for a ninth level slot + two feats, that might be worth it. Otherwise, I'd say no. By RAW, an at will first level spell item costs 2000 gp, and while no DM would ever allow that for true strike, its still kind of pricey.

[Mewtarthio]

Anyway, if you can get quicken true strike for a ninth level slot + two feats, that might be worth it.

Quicken SLA only works thrice per day.

[bugsysservant]

Quicken SLA only works thrice per day.

Yeah, I would skip it then. Or, if you can apply metamagic, go for a stilled ray of frost FTW

[kamikasei]

IIRC, Innate Spell gives you a spell-like ability, not an actual spell. Metamagic rods (and metamagic feats in general) don't work on SLAs.

Yes, but what he's saying is that, holding a Rod of Quicken, you can cast a quickened true strike. It's a spell you can cast. Therefore you prepare true strike, pick up the rod, and take the feat. Since you could cast quickened true strike as a level 1 spell, because of the rod, you can learn it as an SLA. You can then throw away the rod and never prepare true strike again.

You're not using the metamagic rod on the SLA, you're using it on the spell that you turn into the SLA.

[Chronos]

Yes, but what he's saying is that, holding a Rod of Quicken, you can cast a quickened true strike. It's a spell you can cast.

The problem with that is that "Quickened True Strike" is not a spell. "True Strike" is a spell, and Quicken is just a thing which modifies it a bit. If another caster wanted to counterspell your Quickened True Strike, he could just use a plain, ordinary True Strike (or a Silenced True Strike, or whatever). And if you used a Quickened True Strike for your SLA, you'd just get a regular True Strike.

[kamikasei]

The problem with that is that "Quickened True Strike" is not a spell. "True Strike" is a spell, and Quicken is just a thing which modifies it a bit. If another caster wanted to counterspell your Quickened True Strike, he could just use a plain, ordinary True Strike (or a Silenced True Strike, or whatever). And if you used a Quickened True Strike for your SLA, you'd just get a regular True Strike.

I agree that it's an illegitimate and hell-spawned monstrosity of an idea; I just wanted it criticized accurately, not on the misunderstanding that the only wrong thing in the idea was trying to metamagic a spell-like ability. It's so much more wrong than that...