A Few Questions About the Evoker Wizard (Nuclear Wizard)

[Expected]

In my other recent posts, I've been attempting to plan out builds for an upcoming campaign that has a Paladin, Bard, Ranger, Fighter, Rogue (I was going to roll an Arcane Trickster Rogue but decided to choose something else for better synergy), and myself.

With most of my allies being melee (Bard and Ranger are College of Swords and TWF, respectively), I was searching for a class and build that will complement my party so I have settled on an Evoker Wizard using the Nuclear Wizard build.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=170
(Credit goes to LudicSavant for such a clever and effective build).

As a note about myself, I love theorycrafting builds and min-maxing and optimizing them to the fullest extent, and enjoy being useful in both combat and exploration (hence my desire to play a Rogue).

Now my question is this: With Hexblade Curse's addition of proficiency bonus to damage, is an Ioun Stone of Mastery (+1 proficiency) worth the attunement slot? If so, approximately how much would it increase the Magic Missile damage by? And lastly, is this a build that would be fun and not too difficult for a player's first time using a spellcaster?

[Blood of Gaea]

> With Hexblade Curse's addition of proficiency bonus to damage, is an Ioun Stone of Mastery (+1 proficiency) worth the attunement slot?

Are you kidding? +1 Proficiency improves all spellcasting you do, including your save DC and attack rolls. The Ioun Stone of Mastery is one of the better general items in the game.

> If so, approximately how much would it increase the Magic Missile damage by?

+1 Damage per dart, so long as you have the enemy hexed.

> And lastly, is this a build that would be fun and not too difficult for a player's first time using a spellcaster?

It basically plays like a slower progressing Wizard with some impressive nova ability up his sleaves. You'll be weaker as a traditional Wizard, but so long as you're getting a chance to drop your Magic Missile bombs you'll do alright.

The biggest problem you'll run into is being 2 caster levels behind your party's casters.

As this is your first character, I would personally recommend just running a straight Evocation Wizard, but that doesn't mean you can't make it work.

[LudicSavant]

The biggest problem you'll run into is being 2 caster levels behind your party's casters.

What are you talking about? The Nuclear Wizard isn't 2 caster levels behind.

Now my question is this: With Hexblade Curse's addition of proficiency bonus to damage, is an Ioun Stone of Mastery (+1 proficiency) worth the attunement slot?

Depends what else is competing for the attunement slot. But generally it is a very good item, and for a good deal more than just boosting Magic Missile.

If so, approximately how much would it increase the Magic Missile damage by?

+1 per bolt.

And lastly, is this a build that would be fun and not too difficult for a player's first time using a spellcaster?

What's "too difficult" varies for everyone. I'd say that Wizard is probably the highest skill ceiling class in the game, but you don't need to be a master wizard player to contribute effectively to a party and have a blast. You do need to have a grasp of when to use what, though.

[Blood of Gaea]

What are you talking about? The Nuclear Wizard isn't 2 caster levels behind.

The build has 3 levels of non-caster.

Though I was remembering the build off memory, and the Fighter levels are taken for 19 and 20. So amend that to one spell level behind.

[Bobthewizard]

Evocation wizard is maybe the easiest wizard to play for for someone new to wizard. Sculpt spells alone makes the subclass worthwhile and fun. So many spells that require precise positioning or are even maybe useless in melee become viable with it.

LudicSavant's nuclear wizard is a clever use of synergy and works by RAW. But make sure you talk to your DM first. My daughter plays in a game where the DM allows it, but of the 3 DMs I play with, when I asked to play it, none will allow either Empowered Evocation or Hexblade's Curse to be applied to each missile for the same target. They also only let magic missile cause one concentration check per target instead of one per missile. They've seen all of the sage advice but don't like the imbalance or overshadowing the martial characters.

Even without that, an evocation wizard is a lot of fun. Just watch your spell slots. It's easy to run out if you're casting fireball or an upcast magic missile every round.

My advice on the evocation wizard is to build a complete wizard, not just a blaster. You only need one or two continuous AOE spells (wall of fire, sickening radiance, storm sphere, dawn), one AOE (drop thunderwave for fireball at 5), and one single target (magic missile if your DM follows RAW). Then take defense, battlefield control, and utility for the rest of your spells just like any other wizard. Although while you have his attention, you might want to get LudicSavant's take on spell selection for his wizard.

[LudicSavant]

My advice on the evocation wizard is to build a complete wizard, not just a blaster.

I concur with this sentiment.

Basically, like Bob says, you don't need to spend all that many of your spells prepared to have your bases covered there.

[Expected]

Thank you so much for all the the responses and advice. I think I will focus on making a Wizard first (for the utility of their spells), and a damage-dealer second. It is nice to be go all in for Magic Missile once in a while, though.

So, on turns where I cannot use my action to benefit my party, upcast Magic Missile, or have a DM who rules against your resourceless contribution section, do I cast cantrips to contribute? If so, is Fire Bolt the go to or should I invest another level in Warlock for Eldritch Invocations for Eldritch Blast? And does the Evoker Feature affect the first attack of Eldritch Blast?

[Expected]

I am very excited to start playing this character because combat, RP, and exploration will be fun with how many rituals and spells I'd have for a given situation. It kind of mimics a Rogues usefulness in that sense, which I enjoy.

[Corran]

In the interest of further discussion, I'll give the spell selection a try.

I first look at the evoker's features.

Spoiler: Overchannel and spells

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So, I look at overchannel and I try to think of spells that will make the most of it. So I am looking at evocation AoE spells of level 1-5, ideally with an ongoing effect, which essentially means concentration. Not many of those. Storm sphere, wall of fire, sickening radiance, dawn and wall of light are the ones that catch my eye. Sickening radiance is by far the best choice imo. How are we using an overchanneled SR though?

Thinking aggressively, we want to combine it with effects that seriously restrict enemy movement. Now, these effects could come from an ally of course, but we can add a few of our own here. Obviously, we are looking at no-concentration spells, since SR already uses concentration, so we are limited. Still, there are some options. Namely transmute rock and forcecage. Both good spells that we would probably want to take regardless of having SR or not, as transmute rock offers some nice no-concentration control (limited by terrain) which also plays well with blasting (as restrained enemies will have disadvantage on dex saves). And in the case of forcecage, SR would just add a no lose ends clause to our victory conditions if we really cared about that. Very favorable terrain could act a bit like forcecage, and thanks to the duration of SR we could be winning a fight with just one slot (in which case we would not even want to use overchannel, so long as we can safely retain the tactical advantage; most likely continuing to control a choke point).

Thinking defensively, SR acts as a massive damage boost when we are being zerg'd. In which case we want all our allies fighting inside its area, and us completely out of the picture so that there is minimal incentive for the enemies to get out of the killer zone to chase the only target (us) that cannot be inside it. So now we are not looking at negating enemy movement, but we are looking at ways to make us invalid to melee attacks (cause we want to keep the targets of our melee enemies inside the area of SR). Again, since we are using concentration with SR, we need to find no-concentration spells that will get us out of the way. Obviously, the best possible choice here is having no-concentration flight from somewhere, be it a race (such as winged tiefling) or from a magic item (such as by winged boots). But if we cannot get any of those, I think the second best choice is by getting dimension door. Now, we are most likely still using SR indoors (when used defensively that is; so not much point in grabbing something like phantom steed just for that), so there will probably not be much height to the room where the fight takes place. But I would probably still take feather fall just in case I can dimension door upwards (also, that will make a good use of our contingency so it's worth taking anyway). Definitely feather fall if I have no-concentration flight somehow.

So there it is. Looking at overchannel and I have added a few spells to my spell list: Sickening radiance, transmute rock, forcecage, dimension door and feather fall.

Spoiler: Additional thoughts

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Note 1: Of course overchannel also plays well with instantaneous blasting AoE spells like fireball, and we are going to be using it with them too. But I will start thinking of these spells when I get to sculpt spells. For now, I wanted to just note down my most powerful use of overchannel. Something important to notice, if we want to use SR with overchannel, it will have to be our first use of overchannel of the day, otherwise we are taking some serious damage that will force a very difficult concentration check, which will almost certainly guarantee SR going to waste.

Note 2: An alternative to dimension door when using overchannel defensively, could be just staying out of its AoE and doing some tanking. This is a bad idea. It's true that we have some good tools for both upping our defenses (good base AC -up to 19- thanks to hexblade proficiencies, plus the shield spell for which we have more uses per day thanks to that 1st level warlock slot, plus other spells we might be throwing on top to further increase our defense, like mirror image, or spells that will punish those who target us, like armor of agathys and hellish rebuke). But, our hp aren't good, our concentration wont be great (and I would really prefer avoid risking losing concentration on a OC SR), it will cost significant resources to use these things, and in the end, if I am using an overchanneled SR, I don't really want melee enemies outside of it fighting me, I want them inside taking maximized damage (20/40) and suffering exhaustion levels (most of the time they wont even matter in this case, but still). Blink was another thought, but it's too random to count for something that tactically important.

Note 3: Saying it once more for emphasis. No-concentration flight is the key to pulling of a great defensive use of an overchanneled SR (while restraining effects -no concentration from you, anything from allies- will be the key to pulling of a great aggressive use of an overchanneled SR). So if possible, try to get no-concentration flight from magic items or from race, or from however else you can think of. In which case, dimension door becomes less important. I would still probably take it tbh.

Spoiler: Empowered evocation & magic missile

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Now, I look at empowered evocation. This feature affects cantrips, but I will leave cantrips for the end. Let's keep this to leveled spells for now. Empowered evocation affects magic missile (duh). It's a boost to every evocation spell of course. Let's talk about the AoE ones when it's he turn of sculpt spells. For now, single target evocation spells. So, let's talk about magic missile. Cause if we have this, there is little point in talking about any other single target blasting spells (well, maybe crown of stars is worth it, if we can manage to fit it to our final list).

Let's talk about vision. To use magic missile against an enemy, you must be able to see that enemy. That wont be a problem most of the time. But sometimes it might be. And this is one of our main tricks. It's possible that we might have other ways to contribute well enough in such fights, but why risk it not having our big guns available should we choose to in such occasions. Spending a place in our spell list and in our prepared list for see invisibility is a small price to pay for how important that situational benefit could prove to be imo. See invisibility also can help with fights against casters that can turn invisible (mainly by allowing you to counterspell them). More situationally, if you have a (melee) ally that relies on greater invisibility a lot, see invisibility will allow you to include them in your sculpted AoE's (otherwise you wouldn't be able to). But I would just take it just for the sake of having the option to nuke invisible opponents, as invisibility is a cheap and easy way for an enemy to avoid our big guns.

But I wouldn't stop there. I would also take true seeing. Now, if I understand correctly the interaction between true seeing and magic missile (and the nature of the ethereal plane), true seeing would actually allow you t blast someone using abilities that make them ethereal. Unless of course the spell the enemy used specifically prohibits this (eg blink). But this is not really why I would want true seeing. I would want it mainly against illusions. Cause it's going to be a real shame to spend a high level slot with a magic missile only to find out that you targeted nothing. There are some more scenarios where this spell could be useful in conjuction with magic missile (and it has its usefulness on its own for sure), but illusions is the main worry imo. So yeah, I'd take these two spells (see invisibility and true seeing) just so that I can expand the situations during which I will be able to rely on magic missile nuking.

Of course, shield and counterspell can counter a magic missile. For those things I would have counterspell myself, which is a spell I would be getting anyway.

There are some more spells that could help increase the reliability of magic missile, like greater invisibility or dispel magic perhaps, though I don't find it all that necessary to get any of these spells just for the sake of magic missile.

So yeah, looking at empowered evocation has me include all of magic missile, see invisibility, counterspell and true seeing in the spell list.

Spoiler: Hexblade's curse & movement

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Note: The hexblade's curse is another feature that adds a lot of damage to magic missile. The drawback here is the range of the curse (30'). Now, we have good enough defenses to not be afraid to get close enough for activating the curse as our bonus action. Ideally we still want to avoid being targeted by attacks, cause we are not really a tank, but the added damage from the curse and our relatively good defenses makes me think it's very much worth it to get within 30' for nuking. The problem is, the since the curse takes a bonus action and magic missile takes an action to cast, we really want to get close enough just with our movement. Since our nuking does not rely on using concentration anyway, we could reasonably assume that sometimes we might have the option of pre casting something (which might even be a concentration spell) that increases our movement (all for the purpose of being able to get close enough to use both curse and magic missile during the first round of combat). Ideally though, we are looking at long duration movement buffs, so that we can make pre casting them a lot more reliable. If they don't use concentration it's even better, cause we might still want to rely on concentration during a fight where we will also be nuking (in fact, using a good concentration spell will be beneficial, as we get access to very good concentration spells anyway, and as another consequence of making the encounter easier would be that we would need less MM spamming; also, using turns elsewise, gives us more time to get close to what we want to nuke if it starts far away). Spells that could be useful movement wise, could be expeditious retreat, longstrider, phantom steed, fly, haste, etc. The no concentration factor (and the duration) really makes me focus on longstrider and on phantom steed (also, fly is far less important than it would be on single class evocation wizards, as the hexblade's proficiencies and that extra 1st level slot really help with our defenses to not have to commit on such concentration spells, but more on that later). And they kind of complement each other, as phantom steed will usually work better for closing the distance outdoors, while longstrider is what you use indoors or if you really don't want to gamble on losing the steed due to rolling bad on initiative. I think it will be hard to find a place for longstrider in my prepared list (given what it does), and I think I will also have problems finding enough room for phantom steed in my list of known spells. Still, something to think about.

Spoiler: Sculpt spells and AoE blasting

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Sculpt spells. Fireball is one. I want at least one more damage type. I like vitriolic sphere. AoE that works well with sculpt spells, good enough damage type, and of low enough spell slot to be able to use often enough when up against fire resistant/immune enemies. And it targets dex saves, which plays well with targeting restrained enemies (restraining and blasting has nice synergy; also, VS works exceptionally with overchannel too). You know what though? I want a third damage type as well. I mean, if an evoker is not going to have 3 AoE's of different damage type, who will? Now, for the third AoE, we have some choices. Ice storm, cone of cold, freezing sphere and chain lightning are all decent. I like freezing sphere the most. Ludic mentions some nice action economy shenanigans in the original build, and I buy them, but I really like the flavor of this spell (and it's kamikaze or subtle potential) anyway. Great range, amazing radius. If there is a way to make it synergize with any water-based spell (like tidal wave or watery sphere; not 100% sure how they interact by RAW), then it's hands down the best choice. It probably is the best choice already, though I am a little worried about it being a con save. Meteor swarm at the very high levels too.

So, thinking I would like to have 3 AoE's of different damage type, I went with fireball, vitriolic sphere and freezing sphere. And meteor swarm is most likely a late level pick too.

Spoiler: A couple of concentration spells

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Let's talk a bit about concentration. So far, our only concentration spell is sickening radiance. And aside for when it happens to use it with overchannel, we wont be really relying on this spell (with the exception of some rather situational scenarios). We need to find some good uses for our concentration then. Most likely some control/debuff spells. We do get transmute rock which does not require concentration, but transmute rock is somewhat situational. And we took care not to overload our (limited to two) 5th level slots with any blasting spells, and that was intentional. Cause we will be taking wall of force. Now, we get wall of force at a high enough level, and the 5th level slots cannot really carry us through the day. So we want additional control/debuff, of lower level. Ideally, a spell that restrains, which will hence play well with our blasting spells (fireball and vitriolic sphere). Having sculpt means that we don't really have to depend on spells like hypnotic pattern, as our blast spells can take care of multiple enemies, and they can even do it better when enemies and allies are clustered. So, we want a concentration spell to help us win fights art a lower cost than having to spam blast AoE's, and ideally one that can synergize with our blasting potential, and even more ideally, we want one that uses slots that are not too occupied with blasting and other useful spells (as our 3rd and 4th level slots are). So, while we could go with something like Evard's black tentacles, I think it's actually slightly better to go with web instead. Evard's is better as on top of the effect it deals damage (while web does not), and it also synergizes with fireball (while web does not; burning down the web for 5 extra damage is a serious drawback). But web uses slots that we wont use for blasting, and the 2nd level spell picks have a lot less competition than the 4th level spell picks thus far. And we get it earlier enough to help us be better at lower levels. Plus, I don't really mind that web does not synergize with fireball. Cause even if I used Evard's, I would always prefer (barring if I really needed to save a 4th level slot instead of a 3rd level slot, which is unlikely to be that important) to follow that up with a vitriolic sphere than with a fireball, much more if I am using overchannel.

So yeah, web and wall of force are two very good picks that synergize with our other choices imo. Possible we could include more concentration spells, but that's all I can feel relatively certain about at this point.

Note: The good thing about the hexblade level that really improves our defenses, is that unlike if I was playing a singleclass evocation wizard, with this build I can skip a lot of spells that I would pick for the single class build. Spells that would limit our choices substantially (especially concentration spells like fly and greater invisibility). That allows us more and better spell picks, and more offensive variety in our concentration uses.

Spoiler: A few more useful spells

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Lets include some other spells that we know we would like to have on our spell list, so that we can fill it up a little more. Simulacrum, contingency, find familiar, absorb elements and detect magic.

Spoiler: Damage cantrips

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Regarding cantrips, I am not sure if adding the int modifier to the damage of the evocation cantrips (while also keeping in mind that against a successful save the cantrip will still deal half damage), makes frostbite a better choice than toll the dead. The disadvantage has some potential with our good effective AC, but still, I think I would prefer toll the dead, as the damage scaling (which profits from half damage against successful saves), the save it targets, and the damage type are all better, to not pay that much attention to that lost +int mod to its damage. We need an attack cantrip too, any of firebolt or ray of frost will do here (I am avoiding chill touch since I will already have toll the dead that deals necrotic damage.

So, lets look at our spell list and at our list of prepared spells, to see what we have so far.

Spoiler: Known spells and prepared spells

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Spell list
1 (hexblade): Shield
1 (hexblade): Armor of Agathys
1 Feather Fall
1 Magic Missile
1 Find Familiar (R)
1 Absorb Elements
1 Detect Magic (R)
1
1
1
2 See Invisibility
2 Web (C)
2
2
3 Counterspell
3 Fireball
3
3
4 Sickening Radiance (C)
4 Dimension Door
4 Vitriolic Sphere
4
5 Transmute Rock
5 Wall of Force (C)
5
5
6 True Seeing
6 Freezing Sphere
6 Contingency
6
7 Forcecage
7 Simulacrum
7
7
8
8
8
8
9 Meteor Swarm
9

Prepared list
(hexblade): Shield
(hexblade): Armor of Agathys
1 Magic Missile
2 See Invisibility
3 True Seeing
4 Counterspell
5 Sickening Radiance
6 Transmute Rock
7 Dimension Door
8 Feather Fall
9 Forcecage
10 Fireball
11 Vitriolic Sphere
12 Freezing Sphere
13 Meteor Swarm
14 Wall of Force
15 Web
16 Absorb Elements
17
18
19
20
21
22


We can fill up the rest of the spots with a mixture of rituals and spells that will help us while leveling up (and which will eventually become redundant), depending on how much we want to focus on the short term vs the long term and vice versa. What I would personally do, would be to grab some rituals that I like and then fill up the spell picks with the spells I like to have on my characters (that might not necessarily be optimal; I like to have a decent list of prepared spells for when staying in a city for example, where combat would be very unlikely). I am sure there are many great choices that I've missed. Feel free to point them out and to argue about anything I wrote. I'll read any other approach with interest.

[Blood of Gaea]

As far as damage cantrips go:

Toll the Dead: Wis save.
1st: 1d12=6.5
6th: 2d12=13, or 6.5 on a miss.
11th: 3d12=19.5, or 9.75 on a miss.
17th: 4d12=26, or 13 on a miss.

Frostbite: Con save.
1st: 1d6=3.5
6th: 2d6=7, or 3.5 on a miss.
11th: 3d6+5=15.5, or 7.75 on a miss.
17th: 4d6+5=19, or 9.5 on a miss.

Lightning Lure*: Str save.
1st: 1d8=4.5
6th: 2d8=9, or 4.5 on a miss.
11th: 3d8+5=18.5, or 9.25 on a miss.
17th: 4d8+5=23, or 11.5 on a miss.

Thunderclap: Con save, AoE.
1st: 1d6=3.5
6th: 2d6=7, or 3.5 on a miss.
11th: 3d6+5=15.5, or 7.75 on a miss.
17th: 4d6+5=19, or 9.5 on a miss.

* Lightning Lure will only do it's damage if the creature is within 5 feet of you. This spell is here for completeness, rather than being a practical choice.

[LudicSavant]

Thank you so much for all the the responses and advice. I think I will focus on making a Wizard first (for the utility of their spells), and a damage-dealer second. It is nice to be go all in for Magic Missile once in a while, though.

Sounds good. The beauty of the Wizard is that you really can do both.

If so, is Fire Bolt the go to or should I invest another level in Warlock for Eldritch Invocations for Eldritch Blast? And does the Evoker Feature affect the first attack of Eldritch Blast?

Eldritch Blast is not worthwhile for the Nuclear Wizard because your accuracy would be Charisma-based, neither Empowered Evocation nor Potent Cantrip would work with it, and because you'd be slowing down your spell progression to get those invocations. It's generally inferior to Create Bonfire combos or Toll the Dead for you.

Toll the Dead is the "go to" generic damage cantrip for the Evoker, due to its high damage die, lack of penalties from melee or cover, and the fact that it does half damage on a successful save with Potent Cantrip. If you just want a simple straightforward damage trading option, Toll the Dead is it.

Other cantrip options I listed (like Frostbite, Fire Bolt, Lightning Lure, etc) are there for their additional utility, range, combo potential, or attacking different kinds of defenses. For example, Fire Bolt lets me target AC, start fires at a distance, and engage/kite from a range of 120 feet rather than 60. Frostbite will allow you to nerf an enemy's attack rolls without sacrificing too much damage. Lightning Lure in particular is less for its own direct damage (particularly since, exactly as BoG says, it has limited synergy with Potent Cantrip) and more for having the positioning option available, like pulling people into hazards, yanking people into the air, or helping allies disengage. It's the sort of thing you might consider if you're in a hazard composition, for example.

So, on turns where I cannot use my action to benefit my party, upcast Magic Missile, or have a DM who rules against your resourceless contribution section, do I cast cantrips to contribute?

I can't really comment on Schrodinger's Houserules. I would have to know what exactly their ruling was.

That said, you should pretty much always have some way of using your Action to benefit your party as a Wizard.

[LudicSavant]

To get an idea how much Potent Cantrip helps you, here's a little chart I scribbled out just now.



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

As you can see it's fairly significant. Often moreso than the +5 damage from Empowered Evocation, even. For example, a tier 4 Fire Bolt's DPR increases by ~23% with Empowered Evocation, and a tier 3 Fire Bolt's DPR increases by ~30%.

[Bobthewizard]

In the interest of further discussion, I'll give the spell selection a try.

I first look at the evoker's features.

I really like the way you break down the spell selection to maximize use of the features. Thanks for sharing this.

[Corsair14]

As a DM I would hate you in game and would have to start using tactics that would endanger less uber optimized characters, plus higher MR monsters. Now granted, the vast majority of campaigns wouldn't last long enough for you to hit those higher levels and the lower level stuff would not be OP either. Just something to think about and to ask your DM and group if that's the direction they want to go in.

[Chad.e.clark]

Just curious to those playing with 1 concentration check for multiple darts, does the same apply to martial making making multiple attacks?

[RSP]

I’ll second not wasting levels on Hexblade. If for some reason you feel you must take Hexblade at some point, I’d probably then go two levels for invocations and, assuming competent Cha, Repelling Blast. RP would work very well with Wizard spells (or straight Warlock with Sicken Radiance), though again, this combo usually works better with the Wizard not also being the Warlock.

[LudicSavant]

If so, is Fire Bolt the go to or should I invest another level in Warlock for Eldritch Invocations for Eldritch Blast? And does the Evoker Feature affect the first attack of Eldritch Blast?

Expanding on my previous post regarding why Eldritch Blast is not worthwhile here:

To illustrate this, consider how much damage EB/Agonizing Blast would do at level 11 against an average AC for a CR11 creature (17). With only 14 Charisma, you'd have 3d10+6 damage, and miss a full 50% of the time. Counting crit chance and miss chance, your DPR would be only 12.075

In order for Potent Toll the Dead to do only 12 DPR like that with max Int, an enemy has to have a whopping +11 Wisdom save. Even the humble Empowered Evocation Fire Bolt would do 14.8 against the same target, just thanks to being Int-based, and Fire Bolt is easier to get Advantage on to boot (since you only need to grant Advantage to one attack, rather than 3, to get the full benefit. So for example a Familiar could Help you to boost your average DPR to 20.475).

You could try to play catchup by combining EB with Hexblade's Curse, but why would you want to? Hexblade's Curse is 1/short rest, and you use it to go nova with actual spell slots like Magic Missile. And you could use EB/Hex, but again you'd just be foregoing a better option for your Concentration.

The first level of Hexblade is all you want. Not the second. With Potent Cantrip and Empowering Evocation, your cantrips are already good enough. And even then you're only going to be using your cantrips occasionally; your spell slots are the stars of the show.

Edit: tl;dr, Eldritch Blast is for primary Cha builds that don't already have above-average resourceless options. You are neither of those things. Hexblade 1 on the other hand provides a lot of strong benefits that don't care about your Charisma.

[Blood of Gaea]

Just curious to those playing with 1 concentration check for multiple darts, does the same apply to martial making making multiple attacks?

Yes, it does.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Yes, it does.

That's a really strange approach, for someone trying to make martial characters better. But whatever.

This is why DMs who don't fully comprehend the game yet should generally stick to RAW.

[Bobthewizard]

Just curious to those playing with 1 concentration check for multiple darts, does the same apply to martial making making multiple attacks?

Not with the DMs I play with. Magic missiles all strike simultaneously without an attack role so we consider it one attack. Martial attacks and even something like scorching ray all use different attack roles and so cause different concentration saves.

[Blood of Gaea]

That's a really strange approach, for someone trying to make martial characters better. But whatever.

This is why DMs who don't fully comprehend the game yet should generally stick to RAW.

I read your original question wrong. I meant that I call for a separate roll for each dart and each weapon attack.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I read your original question wrong. I meant that I call for a separate roll for each dart and each weapon attack.

I re-read my response and it sounds much harsher than I meant it to be (also, wasn't originally my question). My apologies for that.

Your clarification on your rule makes much more sense, as well.

[Corran]

EDIT: Wall of fire does not synergize with sculpt spells in the way I though. Pretty much anything I say here is pointless. Just in case anyone is about to read this post.

I really like the way you break down the spell selection to maximize use of the features. Thanks for sharing this.

Thanks. I was thinking a little more about wall of fire, and how it could be better than sickening radiance in several occasions. There must be some very good benefits in our allies having the ability to go through the wall as they like, but I am having a hard time pinning them down.

Spoiler: some very incomplete thoughts

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It's shape allows more flexibility than sickening radiance. The ringed version could work really well defensively too, if we have the chance to cast it before being entirely swarmed (even then, it will block like of sight so that could help against enemy archers and casters). Our allies can pass through and stand within 10' of the ring with impunity (thanks to sculpt spells) while enemies will be taking damage. It solves the big issue of where we want to position ourselves (inside the ring) so that there wont be enemies chasing after us (same issue with sickening radiance really, though now we don't have to rely on teleporting away or hiding inside a rope's trick dimension). Sickening radiance still has some things in its favor, especially if we have the tools to benefit from using it aggressively in combination with restricting enemy movement, but I think wall of fire offers better things with a defensive approach in mind, especially if we are there are enemy archers and casters (though enemy blasting could hurt us a lot; hmm, use the action to see through the familiar and we could potentially still counterspell, though why wouldn't the kill the familiar if it's the only available target? maybe that's something useful to do though if our allies are fighting just outside of the ring, so that the familiar wont be drawing much attention; but now the are being attacked by casters and archers...).

I mean, now that I am thinking more about it, it might actually be even better to cast it when completely surrounded by enemies. As next turn we can start using thunderwave (or gust, or whatever else that causes forced movement) and throw them through the rind for them to take damage.

I am sure that there are a lot more to wall of fire for an evoker, but I have trouble pinning it down. Any thoughts anyone?

[Bobthewizard]

Thanks. I was thinking a little more about wall of fire, and how it could be better than sickening radiance in several occasions. There must be some very good benefits in our allies having the ability to go through the wall as they like, but I am having a hard time pinning them down.

I love wall of fire for an evoker. Cast it as a 5' radius circle around you and the effect reaches 3 squares out. I also like the idea of having two different concentration AOE spells so I'd take both sickening radiance and wall of fire and drop one of the 2 higher level instant AOE spells, keeping fireball and one of vitriolic sphere or cone of cold.

[Blood of Gaea]

The big advantage of wall of fire is that it's save for half. That means that you don't need to worry about not dealing damage against a high or lucky save. You know for certain whenever the damage ticks on an enemy they'll take at least 20 damage.

So if your goal is to make a kill zone for minions instead of a death trap for tough enemies, wall of fire is the more reliable choice.

[Corran]

EDIT: Wall of fire does not synergize with sculpt spells in the way I though. Pretty much anything I say here is pointless. Just in case anyone is about to read this post.

I love wall of fire for an evoker. Cast it as a 5' radius circle around you and the effect reaches 3 squares out. I also like the idea of having two different concentration AOE spells so I'd take both sickening radiance and wall of fire and drop one of the 2 higher level instant AOE spells, keeping fireball and one of vitriolic sphere or cone of cold.

Nitpick: It's two squares out.
I am failing to see what's the benefit of keeping the radius small. It's still a decent area of effect, but now we are losing the ability to have our allies go inside (I guess technically they could squeeze in) if they want to take cover from enemy attacks and spells. Plus, getting enemies inside on the cast, allows us the opportunity to throw them back out for more damage. The main plan of course is to keep the fight within 10' of wall, so that we can do damage, I am just wondering if there is any benefit I am missing for keeping the radius that small.

The more I think about it the more I like WoF. Definitely better than sickening radiance for a defensive use.

I am trying to think of how we could make ourselves useful from inside the WoF on the rounds after we cast it. And what would be the best way to cause some force movement against enemies inside the ring, again, on the rounds after we cast it. All I've got so far is using our action with the familiar to see through its eyes (though that leaves us only with bonus actions and reactions available, and the only thing I've got is counterspell -which would be good if there is need for it, as the enemy caster wont be able to counterspell us). And thunderwave for the forced movement.

The big advantage of wall of fire is that it's save for half. That means that you don't need to worry about not dealing damage against a high or lucky save. You know for certain whenever the damage ticks on an enemy they'll take at least 20 damage.

So if your goal is to make a kill zone for minions instead of a death trap for tough enemies, wall of fire is the more reliable choice.

Hmmm, I was actually thinking that wall of fire could be good against a few strong enemies. Cause the repeated damage can add up, especially if we have ranged superiority (in which case our allies can just use the ring as a safe space to hide after briefly popping out to shoot, in which case the enemies will be forced to flee -good scenario-, take cover -need to find something good to do in this case- or best of all, decide to enter the ring -in which case we could really profit from finding ways to keep throwing them out for even more damage).

I mean, it will definitely work better against hordes, but it could still be better than spamming fireballs and magic missiles (or at least it can save us some spells slots).

[Bobthewizard]

Nitpick: It's two squares out.
I am failing to see what's the benefit of keeping the radius small. It's still a decent area of effect, but now we are losing the ability to have our allies go inside (I guess technically they could squeeze in) if they want to take cover from enemy attacks and spells. Plus, getting enemies inside on the cast, allows us the opportunity to throw them back out for more damage. The main plan of course is to keep the fight within 10' of wall, so that we can do damage, I am just wondering if there is any benefit I am missing for keeping the radius that small.

The more I think about it the more I like WoF. Definitely better than sickening radiance for a defensive use.

I am trying to think of how we could make ourselves useful from inside the WoF on the rounds after we cast it. And what would be the best way to cause some force movement against enemies inside the ring, again, on the rounds after we cast it. All I've got so far is using our action with the familiar to see through its eyes (though that leaves us only with bonus actions and reactions available, and the only thing I've got is counterspell -which would be good if there is need for it, as the enemy caster wont be able to counterspell us). And thunderwave for the forced movement.


Hmmm, I was actually thinking that wall of fire could be good against a few strong enemies. Cause the repeated damage can add up, especially if we have ranged superiority (in which case our allies can just use the ring as a safe space to hide after briefly popping out to shoot, in which case the enemies will be forced to flee -good scenario-, take cover -need to find something good to do in this case- or best of all, decide to enter the ring -in which case we could really profit from finding ways to keep throwing them out for even more damage).

I mean, it will definitely work better against hordes, but it could still be better than spamming fireballs and magic missiles (or at least it can save us some spells slots).

I think it's three. 5' radius wall cantered on you would be halfway into the adjacent squares and would cover those squares as being in the wall. Then you point the damaging side out 10' from the wall so it would go halfway into the 3rd square out, causing damage to those squares. It would be 7 squares by 7 squares with one safe square in the middle. So 5' radius wall plus 10' of damage gives a 15' radius zone.

If they cast it around themselves, the wizard wouldn't be able to move out of their square without dimension door, but they'd cover a pretty large area, and everyone else would be sculpted and could move freely.

Or you could put the wall somewhere else and there would just be a one square hole in the middle, but would cover 48 other squares. (safe square, 3 each way for 10' of fire makes 7 squares per side, 7x7 is 49, less the one excluded square.

I could be wrong but I think this works, and it covers more area than a 20' diameter wall pointing inwards. I guess if you force people to center effects at intersections it would cover less squares but I've not played that way.

[Corran]

Ah, I get it. I was thinking 5' diameter for some reason. Still, I cannot see any benefit in making the safe area smaller (while I can see some benefits in making it bigger).

[Bobthewizard]

You could definitely make it bigger and would cover more overall squares if you did. So let's say we use the full 20' diameter. You would exclude 9 squares in the middle and then it would go 3 squares out form there. So it would cover a total of 72 squares, 9x9 for 81 less the 9 excluded.

The small radius just excludes the fewest number of squares in the middle, but especially if it's around you and you're not in melee yet, a larger circle could be useful. Just be careful because that could give the enemy a safe square to stand in and attack you. With only one safe square, you occupy it and anyone trying to attack you has to stand in the wall.

I just looked up AOE placement on different forums and some people require it to start at a grid line intersection and exclude squares in the corners, which would change my math, but the overall idea is the same.

I think the thing to keep in mind for wall of fire is if you make the circle up to a 20' diameter and then point it out, it covers a pretty good area.

[Daithi]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, so here is an addition to the Nuclear Wizard that occurred to me.

If you can use the Eberron Dragonmark feats then there is a huge power boost available that starts at 1st level. The Aberrant Dragonmark allows you cast a 1st level Sorcerer spell (pick Magic Missile) as a 1st level spell, but you can you can use 1 of your hit dice to upcast the spell, where each hit die used increases the spell by one level. So, at 4th level you could upcast to 8th level, and at 5th level you could upcast to 9th level. That's some massive damage for a 4th or 5th level character. Heck, even at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd your doing pretty good. The only drawback is that you need to make sure you have a high CON score, which Wizards are going to do anyway.