Alignment: Moral dilemma

[Erk]

I have a CG player who is pretty new to D&D, trying to learn the basics of what her alignment represents to her character.

Recently, she came across a human manacled to a wall in a goblin dungeon. Of course, he begged her to let him down, claiming the goblins had been torturing him. Further study showed that 1) he showed no signs of torture, and 2) he was chained up with silver-lined manacles. Unsure of what to do, she left, planning to come back.

Soon, she found a human in similar circumstances. He made no claim to have been tortured, and after a bit of deciphering she figured out that he was a werebeast of some kind. Now she's not sure what to do: she isn't certain that being a werecreature is sufficient cause to kill him outright (particularly since he is defenseless) or leave him to hang (a bit cruel and unusual), but she isn't willing to let him down and have him either escape to do harm, or attack her. She feels that if she knew the creature was evil, a cg character would be willing to leave them to hang. Since she is unsure, though, she is planning to return when the goblins running the dungeon have been dealt with, and deal with the prisoners then.

I thought it was an interesting dilemma and wondered what people here thought.

[Ulzgoroth]

Leaving them to hang is a pretty bad solution for any alignment (except sadistic evil). If you want them dead, kill them cleanly. If you want them free, free them. Don't leave them chained to a wall in a ruin until they either die or break free somehow.

[Sir Jason]

Person here thinks the DM has an odd fettish for lycanthropic bondage.


Now as for the moral dilemna, I think that people should be free to explore their own fettishes in couples, but as for making it into a DnD adventur-- Oh, right, sorry, the situation.


I think that a cg character would tie them up to something else, still on the silver cuffs, and take them away till they could prove that they were good-intentioned (or could cast a divination spell). Then, kill him if hes evil, free him if hes good, and it depends per character if hes neutral. Lawful lycans may be publicly humiliated before release.

[Erk]

Person here thinks the DM has an odd fettish for lycanthropic bondage.

I just like representing dungeons as genuinely creepy places... scrawny dudes hanging from manacles are creepy.

[Riffington]

I think that a CG character would agonize a bit over the situation; she succeeded. After that - a variety of solutions would fit with CG. This is precisely the kind of situation that CG would find to be a dilemma, and that different CG characters would ultimately resolve differently.

[sikyon]

I think that a knowedge check would reveal that not all werecreatures are of the evil alignment... and thus an automatic assumption that they are evil and need to be killed would not be a good act.

[Fixer]

This seems rather cut and dry. Let's take the vote:

She sees them as a potential threat because they are quite possibly lycanthropes. Vote against release because they might infect her.
They are alive in a goblin dungeon, so the goblins do not want them dead so leaving them for a short time won't further endanger them. Vote against release because they are not in immediate danger and could go get themselves killed.
One of the two lied about their condition, or at least appeared to have lied and liers tend to be rather untrustworthy. Vote against releasing that one for being dishonest.
They are living things trapped in a place they might die. Vote for release.

No reason to kill them but the reasoning against releasing them is also fairly overwhelming. Just leave them until the place has been cleared out and then take them, still chained, to some clerics or something to find out 1) what they are and 2) whether or not they are dangerous.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Indeed. Werewolves and rats are evil. But tigers and bears are good. If you can, I'd call a Geas on the beastie. Best solution since it ensures no killin's. But be sure to word it in such a way that the beastie can defend itself if attacked.

[Fixer]

Indeed. Werewolves and rats are evil. But tigers and bears are good. If you can, I'd call a Geas on the beastie. Best solution since it ensures no killin's. But be sure to word it in such a way that the beastie can defend itself if attacked.

I think these are low-level characters. Why else would they be clearing out a goblin dungeon? By the time you get access to Geas most lycanthropes are no longer a danger.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Never underestimate low level mooks who can class up. Jus' three words: Kobold Combat Trapsmith. And that's not mentioning mr. Double P, who simply screws over everything.

[Riffington]

Fixer, these are good CG arguments.
Additional opposite arguments might look like:
*The goblins haven't killed them because the goblins expect to get something later (whether to sell as slaves, to study, or to ransom). If the goblins feel threatened (something that sounds like it is happening or will soon), they may change their decisions and kill them. So entering and leaving them chained is not to just leave them in mortal danger, but to actively place them in mortal danger.
*Nobody should be in chains unless they've actually committed a serious crime. It's not their fault they're lycanthropes.
*Perhaps they would be valuable allies. Certainly, freeing them would tip the scale towards allies and against enemies. If you treat a man like a monster all the time, he'll become one. If you treat a monster like a man, he may become one.

The decision might be easy for LE characters... not for CG.

[lumberofdabeast]

*pokes head in* To those saying the prisoners weren't tortured: They were kept in constant physical contact with silver. Based on every interpretation of Weredudes I can remember right now, that would hurt. A lot.

[Hannes]

2) he was chained up with silver-lined manacles.

Silver-LINED. Meaning that it would hurt if the creature tried to shapeshift and tear the manacles open.

[InkEyes]

In a situation like this I'd turn to the nearest Cleric/Paladin and tell them to cast Detect Evil on the Lycanthrope and go from there.

*pokes head in* To those saying the prisoners weren't tortured: They were kept in constant physical contact with silver. Based on every interpretation of Weredudes I can remember right now, that would hurt. A lot.

It never explicitly says anything about Lycanthropes being damaged by silver in D&D. Silver is used to overcome a Lycanthrope's damage reduction but it doesn't deal extra damage to them, as far as I know.

[Fishy]

The alignment system is one of the three stupidest things about D&D, all of this is my personal opinion and interpretation, etc, etc.

A Good character believes in a certain amount of altruism: She helps others or helps her cause before herselves, or at least tries to avoid unnecessary harm. A Good character believes that the people around her are basically Good.

A Chaotic character, by the 'All Elves are Created Free' model, believes on self-reliance, independance, and on judging people as individuals as much as possible. To a Chaotic character, it might be a perfectly sensible and valid choice to free one of the prisoners and not the other.

Our character has no proof they're evil. Werethings are dangerous, but to a CG character, they are not all the same and not inherently bad. They're being held against their will, which is offensive to a Chaotic character, and a Good character wants to try and prevent harm. If it ends up being a mistake and she has to hunt them down later, then she has to hunt them down later.

Really, though, the most important consideration is that you're playing a game, and the DM has put them up there for a reason. :P Turning around and walking away from a plot hook like that is like writing a murder mystery novel that ends on page 4. "And then the detective walked away from the dead body and never came back."

[Alex12]

Turning around and walking away from a plot hook like that is like writing a murder mystery novel that ends on page 4. "And then the detective walked away from the dead body and never came back."

May I sig this?

Also, I'd free the one who was being truthful.

[Mr. Friendly]

I'd say, from a CG point of view, that with no further evidence one way or t'other that they should be freed. If they wanna start something after they are free, let 'em try it.