Why each class is in its tier: 2019 update!

[Lans]

I too am having trouble understanding how totemist is the highest melder. I'm currently building and playing one, and besides tearing things apart and being good at a bunch of physical skills, I'm not really seeing it. Yes, it picks up a handful of special attacks (lines, gaze, I think even poison breath) but is that enough to go from 4 -> 3?

Let's look at the definitions of tiers

Tier three: Again, we gotta sacrifice something compared to tier two, here taking us to around the level of a swordsage. The usual outcome is that you are very good at solving a couple of problems and competent at solving a few more. Of course, there are other possibilities, for example that you might instead be competent at solving nearly all problems.

Tier four: Here we're in ranger/barbarian territory (though the ranger should be considered largely absent of ACF's and stuff to hit this tier, as will be talked about later). Starting from that standard tier three position, the usual sweet spots here are very good at solving a few problems, or alright at solving many problems.

I think the totemist can do stealth and combat problems very well, and be okay in other areas.

Incarnates I think are the epitome of alright at solving many problems for the most of their career,

[AnimeTheCat]

Let's look at the definitions of tiers




I think the totemist can do stealth and combat problems very well, and be okay in other areas.

Incarnates I think are the epitome of alright at solving many problems for the most of their career,

But Incarnates can literally have the answer to every single problem throught their whole career, and if they don't immediately they have a hot-swap answer or they can have the answer in 8 hours. Doesn't that fit the "Of course, there are other possibilities, for example that you might instead be competent at solving nearly all problems." part of the description of T3? Further, incarnates can do any one task they designate very well, and have the ability to flex to other categories on the fly depending on the situation. That fits the first part of the definition of T3. I'm just not seeing how they aren't in the same tier.

[Dimers]

How does a Totemist break out of Tier 4 then?

They don't. I'd call a totemist T4, solves one kind of problem pretty well and a couple others okay ... but that wasn't what I was addressing when I wrote about the incarnate, so I didn't mention it. *shrug*

binds aren't restricted by magic item choices because the feat Split Chakra exists and you can take it as many times as you need (because you don't need other feats to be competent at any challenge).

*cough* *cough* Ahrm. Gosh. That's an interesting claim.

[AnimeTheCat]

They don't. I'd call a totemist T4, solves one kind of problem pretty well and a couple others okay ... but that wasn't what I was addressing when I wrote about the incarnate, so I didn't mention it. *shrug*



*cough* *cough* Ahrm. Gosh. That's an interesting claim.

what's an interesting claim? the fact that you don't need feats to be competent at challenges or that the Split Chakra feat exists and allows you to share a magic item and a soulmeld bind in the same slot? One I can see you disagreeing with, the other is pretty obviously true and not even particularly interesting. What situations require feats for competence for the Incarnate? Here are some of the ones that don't:

- protection from charms, compulsions, Divinations, and posession
- social interaction
- combat (ranged or melee)
- healing allies (by way of two soulmelds: Lifebond Vestments and Mage's Spectacles)
- Trap detection and removal

That's just off the top of my head. What are you getting at?

[eggynack]

Clerics are pretty good at picking up immunities through other means, so I'm less concerned about that.

Perhaps, though weird stuff like illusion immunity is pretty nifty. Dragons are really more the immunity piles though.

Zombies and low level NPCs are a fun concept as fodder, but I'm not sure how much they really matter in practice.

There's gotta be something you can do with a bunch of CR 6 NPCs of your choice. Not, like, a ton, but it's certainly neat. I was going to mention the great old master neogi, who, at a modest level 15, can create an arbitrarily large number of 1 HD neogi spawn, 2d4 a round, but I think polymorph grants that. I suspect I'm just arbitrarily biased in favor of the generation of terrible minions. I spent so much of my research time thinking that druids have basically no minion options, so wacky nonsense like forever unicorns or miles wide plant network or fey ring options that aren't siabrie became beautiful things. It's nice that I also found some actually really powerful stuff, but I'll always have a place in my heart for infinite tiny bugs.

War Troll is pretty good in combination with a standard cleric buffing routines. You get to keep your equipment, which matters increasingly with level. High strength + high natural armor + high con + energy immunity spell + high wisdom + dazing blow means you can tank away. You can also access outsider forms via Holy Transformation + Polymorph, for things like the Kelvezu (Dex 31, Sneak Attack+8d6, Poison that works with weapons, natural armor+15, fly 60'(good)) or Horned Devil.

Overall, enhanced aberation wildshape still seems marginally better to me, with significant caveats.

That stuff is quite strong, but it seems relatively unversatile when compared with what direct casting grants access to. It's like, you could hit someone incredibly hard and maybe stunlock them, or you could just will-o-wisp about, near impossible to hit with anything, tossing out blizzards, hurricanes, and earthquakes. Also, as you noted, thoon elder brain is pretty great at combat, so it's not like druids are lacking for that element. Druids are actually kinda better at braining, cause you can pick up fast healing 10. Also fear and acid immunity? I think you get those. I forgot to list it.

[Troacctid]

Let's take a side-by-side comparison of the incarnate and the warlock, for illustrative purposes. We'll look at some mid-levels, since that's where we had the most skepticism of incarnate performance.

At level 7, the warlock has three least invocations and one lesser invocation, plus eldritch blast 4d6, detect magic, and the ability to take 10 on UMD. A typical invocation selection might be an eldritch essence like frightful blast or sickening blast, a utility invocation like call of the beast or baleful utterance, a defensive invocation like darkness or entropic warding, and one of the good lesser invocations, let's say fell flight. She can fly around shooting lasers as touch attacks with a minor debuff attached while having a 20% miss chance on defense. Out of combat, she can still fly, she can detect magic, and she has whatever her utility invocation is. She can also use wands and stuff.

At level 7, the incarnate can shape 5 soulmelds and bind 2 of them, with each one having a capacity of 3 (and possibly one having 4, assuming she took the feat, which most incarnates probably will). One of those soulmelds should be a primary attack form, either Dissolving Spittle or Lightning Gauntlets. That's a match for the warlock's damage, so, cool. If we want to lean into offense, we can add Lucky Dice and Incarnate Avatar (evil) to bring the damage up from 4d6 to 4d6+7, or 4d6+11 with incarnum radiance active. Since we're evil, we also get to use another of our soulmelds to create a necrocarnum zombie with up to 7 HD, like the sample girallon necrocarnum zombie, which has five natural attacks, dealing an average of 50 damage if all of them hit (and we can share our incarnum radiance with it to add another +4 to damage on every attack). Let's bind our Lucky Dice to our hands; now our whole party, girallon included, gets +1 to attack and damage and all skill checks. This still leaves us with one more soulmeld, so how about either Mage's Spectacles, Vitality Belt, or Airstep Sandals, dealer's choice. Not too shabby. Partway through the day, we have the option of switching out one of our melds for...whatever. Any of the situational ones I listed in my quick summary.

That's not too bad a comparison, right?

At level 9, the warlock has an extra d6 of blast damage and has picked up another lesser invocation, which might be something like flee the scene or charm or walk unseen. Meanwhile, the incarnate now has lesser chakras. So that's cool. There are some good ones there. Maybe get some mind-reading action going, or set up a telepathic link with your party, or take Shape Soulmeld (Phase Cloak) to become immune to doors, whatever. With more essentia, it's easier to keep all your receptacles happy and full, and an extra use of incarnum radiance is nice for when you're on the melee plan. The girallon can now be upgraded to...something with more HD, or whatever, I don't know.

[Sutr]

what's an interesting claim? the fact that you don't need feats to be competent at challenges or that the Split Chakra feat exists and allows you to share a magic item and a soulmeld bind in the same slot?

I didn't want to get back in this but split chakra is a bad feat.

1: its choose a chakra; not like expanded soulmeld capacity, if the magic item you liked becomes outdated same with the soulmeld on that chakra.
2: its outclassed by an item for 10k you can expand the soulmeld the soulmeld capacity. If we read the magic item compendium we can add this to whatever item we want for 15k.

I'd like to also agree with warlock being a 3.5 and move my incarnate vote to equal with that. Lots of options easier to switch out less in combat oomph and D&D is still mostly combat.

[Anthrowhale]

There's gotta be something you can do with a bunch of CR 6 NPCs of your choice. Not, like, a ton, but it's certainly neat.

It is neat, and I'm sure there are niche uses.

or you could just will-o-wisp about, near impossible to hit with anything, tossing out blizzards, hurricanes, and earthquakes.

The Transformation Cleric version of this is something like Polymorph[Shimemerling]. Fine size means that you have +16 to hide and concealment is common, while Invisibility is essentially +20 to hide +concealment. Of if your domain is Spell (which is great on a spontaneous cleric) and you take Alternate Source Spell, then you can just DMM[Persist] Alternate Source Greater Invisibility. Or you could do both. On the immunity to magic side, combining a Karma Bead, Ankh of Ascension, DMM[Persist], and Skin of the Steel Dragon gives you all day SR level+18 which is functionally close to magic immunity. Clerics also have a few disaster spells although Druids have a clear edge until Erupt comes online.

Also, as you noted, thoon elder brain is pretty great at combat, so it's not like druids are lacking for that element. Druids are actually kinda better at braining, cause you can pick up fast healing 10. Also fear and acid immunity? I think you get those. I forgot to list it.

The War Troll seems a bit better to me personally. With just a bit of buffing, you are pretty much sure to achieve daze lock. Partly this is also my interpretation of 'mental action', which would require silent/still spell. Partly, keeping all your equipment is again great. As far as fast healing goes, DMM[persistent] mass lesser vigor is smaller quantity-wise, but it's still plenty to autoheal between battles and quite adequate for a functioning beating dispensary if you have AC No. Mithril Full Plate + War Troll + Magic Vestment + Large Animated Shield = AC 46, and there's plenty that can be done to improve that further.

[AnimeTheCat]

I didn't want to get back in this but split chakra is a bad feat.

1: its choose a chakra; not like expanded soulmeld capacity, if the magic item you liked becomes outdated same with the soulmeld on that chakra.
2: its outclassed by an item for 10k you can expand the soulmeld the soulmeld capacity. If we read the magic item compendium we can add this to whatever item we want for 15k.

I'd like to also agree with warlock being a 3.5 and move my incarnate vote to equal with that. Lots of options easier to switch out less in combat oomph and D&D is still mostly combat.

I don't disagree with your two points, and I did know that it's pick one and you're stuck. But the option still remains which decisively means that, even with bad DM influence not including the 15k enchantment, you can still use you enigma helm and your headband of wisdom at the same time, or more likely, your constitution belt and your belt slot chakra. I also think warlock definitely falls in to the good at one thing, ok in many, while incarnate is potentially ok at nearly every task.

[Buufreak]

I don't disagree with your two points, and I did know that it's pick one and you're stuck. But the option still remains which decisively means that, even with bad DM influence not including the 15k enchantment, you can still use you enigma helm and your headband of wisdom at the same time, or more likely, your constitution belt and your belt slot chakra. I also think warlock definitely falls in to the good at one thing, ok in many, while incarnate is potentially ok at nearly every task.

*Stength belt, or Constitution *neck. Not really sure which you were going for. And sure, for that niche case you might have something. But overall it isn't that great.

As for what is being said about incarnate and warlock, I'm really not sure if the argument is currently one of equivalence or for one's superiority.

[AnimeTheCat]

*Stength belt, or Constitution *neck. Not really sure which you were going for. And sure, for that niche case you might have something. But overall it isn't that great.

As for what is being said about incarnate and warlock, I'm really not sure if the argument is currently one of equivalence or for one's superiority.

Equivalence, not superiority. Warlocks are pretty universally seen as T3 while incarnate was, for whatever reason, rated T4. I think they're equal but different.

edit: I was going for the con bonus because it most directly helps meldshapers. I've been playing pathfinder lately and they did the wonderful thing of making all the physical stats a belt slot that could combine them, and all the mental ones a headband that could combine them. I think neck slot is the throat chakra, so that one is definitely going to come up if you're relying on dissolving spittle for your damage.

[Karl Aegis]

I too am having trouble understanding how totemist is the highest melder. I'm currently building and playing one, and besides tearing things apart and being good at a bunch of physical skills, I'm not really seeing it. Yes, it picks up a handful of special attacks (lines, gaze, I think even poison breath) but is that enough to go from 4 -> 3?

It looks like the totemist gets a higher point buy because while the incarnate could invest in intelligence for more skill points or more constitution to offset the hit dice difference, it doesn't because it doesn't need to. Totemist gets a higher strength, dexterity, intelligence and constitution because it needs those stats. So, basically, totemist gets to run 32 point buy while the incarnate gets to run 6. That's the impression I'm getting from the posts.

[Dimers]

As for what is being said about incarnate and warlock, I'm really not sure if the argument is currently one of equivalence or for one's superiority.

I think Troacctid's rundown was an exploration rather than an argument toward either side. Me, I think the two classes are on approximately equal footing, but I'd rank them both in T4 instead of either in T3. Schroedinger's Warlock is better than Schroedinger's Incarnate but actual builds come out about even.

[javcs]

Warlock is firmly T4. Nowhere near the bottom, but not close to the top of T4 either.


There are some really nice invocations out there. Unfortunately, you only get 12 of them without blowing all your feats on getting new invocations. And even then, you don't get that many extra invocations - maximum of 5.
And Imbue Item is nifty, but you still need the crafting feats to use it.


Warlock is pretty mediocre at best until Epic levels and you get the Epic Warlock feats and enough bonus feats to spend on getting more invocations known.

[Troacctid]

Warlocks are definitely T3—they're just head and shoulders above any of the T4 classes. Even a low-op warlock will comfortably outperform a rogue, shadowcaster, ranger, adept, etc. and it's not especially close. Meanwhile, put them against T3 classes like duskblade, binder, totemist, dragonfire adept, and wild shape ranger, and you have a reasonable contest. It's true that you don't get a lot of invocations, but the wilder doesn't get a lot of powers either, and most people were still willing to put it in T3. And warlock invocations are good.

[Lans]

Let's take a side-by-side comparison of the incarnate and the warlock, for illustrative purposes. We'll look at some mid-levels, since that's where we had the most skepticism of incarnate performance.

At level 7, the warlock has three least invocations and one lesser invocation, plus eldritch blast 4d6, detect magic, and the ability to take 10 on UMD. A typical invocation selection might be an eldritch essence like frightful blast or sickening blast, a utility invocation like call of the beast or baleful utterance, a defensive invocation like darkness or entropic warding, and one of the good lesser invocations, let's say fell flight. She can fly around shooting lasers as touch attacks with a minor debuff attached while having a 20% miss chance on defense. Out of combat, she can still fly, she can detect magic, and she has whatever her utility invocation is. She can also use wands and stuff.

At level 7, the incarnate can shape 5 soulmelds and bind 2 of them, with each one having a capacity of 3 (and possibly one having 4, assuming she took the feat, which most incarnates probably will). One of those soulmelds should be a primary attack form, either Dissolving Spittle or Lightning Gauntlets. That's a match for the warlock's damage, so, cool. If we want to lean into offense, we can add Lucky Dice and Incarnate Avatar (evil) to bring the damage up from 4d6 to 4d6+7, or 4d6+11 with incarnum radiance active. Since we're evil, we also get to use another of our soulmelds to create a necrocarnum zombie with up to 7 HD, like the sample girallon necrocarnum zombie, which has five natural attacks, dealing an average of 50 damage if all of them hit (and we can share our incarnum radiance with it to add another +4 to damage on every attack). Let's bind our Lucky Dice to our hands; now our whole party, girallon included, gets +1 to attack and damage and all skill checks. This still leaves us with one more soulmeld, so how about either Mage's Spectacles, Vitality Belt, or Airstep Sandals, dealer's choice. Not too shabby. Partway through the day, we have the option of switching out one of our melds for...whatever. Any of the situational ones I listed in my quick summary.

That's not too bad a comparison, right?

At level 9, the warlock has an extra d6 of blast damage and has picked up another lesser invocation, which might be something like flee the scene or charm or walk unseen. Meanwhile, the incarnate now has lesser chakras. So that's cool. There are some good ones there. Maybe get some mind-reading action going, or set up a telepathic link with your party, or take Shape Soulmeld (Phase Cloak) to become immune to doors, whatever. With more essentia, it's easier to keep all your receptacles happy and full, and an extra use of incarnum radiance is nice for when you're on the melee plan. The girallon can now be upgraded to...something with more HD, or whatever, I don't know.

I put the warlock at high T4, and yes they are very close, at level 7. Your incarnate has been pigeonholed into melee touch attacks using 3 of its melds to that effect. The Warlock can use Hideous Blow to be about equal to the damage with Lightning Gauntlets, Lucky Dice and Incarnate Avatar. He takes The Dead Walk to match the Necrocarnum Zombie. Mages Spectacles puts him on par with the warlocks UMD, Vitality Belt eats into its offense if you put more than a point into it, and Air step sandals less good than spider climb barring a floating platform.


By level 9 the warlock can retrain one of its invocations for Eldricth Glaive doubling its damage, if you take a feat for shape soulmeld then the warlock can take empower or maximize spell and actually be able to do some good damage.

Which soulmeld lets you read minds? I found a gnome substitution level, but I don't think your talking about that

Warlocks are definitely T3—they're just head and shoulders above any of the T4 classes. Even a low-op warlock will comfortably outperform a rogue, shadowcaster, ranger, adept, etc. and it's not especially close. Meanwhile, put them against T3 classes like duskblade, binder, totemist, dragonfire adept, and wild shape ranger, and you have a reasonable contest. It's true that you don't get a lot of invocations, but the wilder doesn't get a lot of powers either, and most people were still willing to put it in T3. And warlock invocations are good.

Could you go over this a little? I can see this being the case, I think they are higher in tier 4. The wilder doesn't get a lot of powers, but its damaging power is on par off the bat and it gets access to things like plane shift

[Troacctid]

Which soulmeld lets you read minds? I found a gnome substitution level, but I don't think your talking about that

Charming Veil.

Could you go over this a little? I can see this being the case, I think they are higher in tier 4. The wilder doesn't get a lot of powers, but its damaging power is on par off the bat and it gets access to things like plane shift

It's pretty much covered in the OP and in the original thread around this page. But if you have any specific concerns I'm happy to answer them as the reigning warlock expert.

[Lans]

But Incarnates can literally have the answer to every single problem throught their whole career, and if they don't immediately they have a hot-swap answer or they can have the answer in 8 hours. Doesn't that fit the "Of course, there are other possibilities, for example that you might instead be competent at solving nearly all problems." part of the description of T3? Further, incarnates can do any one task they designate very well, and have the ability to flex to other categories on the fly depending on the situation. That fits the first part of the definition of T3. I'm just not seeing how they aren't in the same tier.

It might, but I don't know if they hit the competent mark in things that matter. 5d6+1 acid damage as a 30-60 foot ranged touch attack at level 6 isn't hitting that mark.

[Troacctid]

It might, but I don't know if they hit the competent mark in things that matter. 5d6+1 acid damage as a 30-60 foot ranged touch attack at level 6 isn't hitting that mark.

It's certainly better than what the rogue, scout, or ninja is doing, and I think most people would at least consider them competent in that regard.

[Lans]

It's certainly better than what the rogue, scout, or ninja is doing, and I think most people would at least consider them competent in that regard.

I would argue that they need the ability to make extra attacks before they reach the point of competence.

[Shocksrivers]

I am a little late to the party, but wanted to thank Troacctid for this amazing overview!

[Sutr]

Well so far since this seems to be an update, so I'll vote alot. Keeping track of my vote and new votes: incarnate warlock 3.5, warmage, dragonfire adept, crusader, warblade, swordsage 3, psychic warrior, mystic ranger 2 prestige classes exist. Soulborn, samurai, expert 5.5, they are truly horrible.

Wizard, cleric, druid, shaman, archivist 1

All of those just confirm where things are, and are things I've played. Anyone want to talk about binder 3-7 with me, and how at 8 it literally more than doubles in power gaining tenebrous and a second vestige. Cause its literally tier 5 during those levels, and I have a hatred of a bunch of one shots at 6th level trying to make it work.

I'll start the artificer war as well nothing the artificer gets allows it to break wealth by level, and we can't assume action points to reduce infusion time to use.

[Troacctid]

I would argue that they need the ability to make extra attacks before they reach the point of competence.

1. Why?
2. Incarnates can make extra attacks via minions.

Well so far since this seems to be an update, so I'll vote alot. Keeping track of my vote and new votes: incarnate warlock 3.5, warmage, dragonfire adept, crusader, warblade, swordsage 3, psychic warrior, mystic ranger 2 prestige classes exist. Soulborn, samurai, expert 5.5, they are truly horrible.

Wizard, cleric, druid, shaman, archivist 1

All of those just confirm where things are, and are things I've played. Anyone want to talk about binder 3-7 with me, and how at 8 it literally more than doubles in power gaining tenebrous and a second vestige. Cause its literally tier 5 during those levels, and I have a hatred of a bunch of one shots at 6th level trying to make it work.

I'll start the artificer war as well nothing the artificer gets allows it to break wealth by level, and we can't assume action points to reduce infusion time to use.

In point of fact prestige classes do not exist. These rankings consider base classes only, so do adjust accordingly.

Psychic warrior at 2? That's going to need some explanation. Above initiators and warmages? How? I'm curious about your differential between warlock and DFA as well, given how close the two are in power.

[LordCharlemagne]

Reading eggynack's definitions of the new tiers puts the Incarnate in tier 3 because of its immense versatility for little investment, meaning you can be built to solve a couple problems really well and when needed, change your soulmelds around to be able to handle any problems that arise.

It's interesting that the Totemist is currently tier 3 and the Incarnate is currently tier 4, despite the Incarnate having an easier time with the whole versatility aspect (part of the power & versatility aspect that is measured by the tier list) with their larger universal soulmeld capacity, rapid meldshaping, and larger and more diverse soulmeld list.

The totemist just happens to have an easier time converting their soulmelds to combat potential than the Incarnate does and is an easier character concept to pitch.

There's really no justifiable way that the Incarnate and the Totemist can be in separate tiers. Saying one is tier x and the other is tier y is focusing too much on the ease of building when fundamentally they are going to have very similar load outs (1 or 2 core combat melds + some boosting melds the build wants + versatility melds when permissible).

[Sutr]

In point of fact prestige classes do not exist. These rankings consider base classes only, so do adjust accordingly.

Psychic warrior at 2? That's going to need some explanation. Above initiators and warmages? How? I'm curious about your differential between warlock and DFA as well, given how close the two are in power.

Made a mistake in typing on the psychic warrior that should be 3. I do apologize.

I still find the fact that mystic ranger is better than tier 2 for ten levels, the ones most likely to be played, and falling to tier three by level 20 as tier two. The ranger spell list is quite good.

Dragonfire adept gets 4 less invocations than a warlock, and 5 base attack, the defensive abilities are a wash as a warlock will still need to invest more to get crafting. It also has more bad invocations than good easier to mess up.

The DFA gets 5 more breath effects, hits an area and still has an effect if its saved against on its most important slow. Due to its design the DFA cares even less about charisma or dex, then a warlock and some of its invocations are actually better, humanoid shape. We round this out with 1 hit point per level, 2 skill points per level, more diverse skill list. All in all I see enough for a half tier difference.

[Lans]

1. Why?
2. Incarnates can make extra attacks via minions.

.

I'm going with a d6 a level for baseline competence, a lot of debate has gone on in these forms about how evocation is terrible school of magic, and that people shouldn't use DD spells unless they get metamagiced up in damage

I think competence in skills needs full ranks in things like stealth and senses.

[Troacctid]

Dragonfire adept gets 4 less invocations than a warlock, and 5 base attack, the defensive abilities are a wash as a warlock will still need to invest more to get crafting. It also has more bad invocations than good easier to mess up.

The DFA gets 5 more breath effects, hits an area and still has an effect if its saved against on its most important slow. Due to its design the DFA cares even less about charisma or dex, then a warlock and some of its invocations are actually better, humanoid shape. We round this out with 1 hit point per level, 2 skill points per level, more diverse skill list. All in all I see enough for a half tier difference.

Detect magic is effectively an additional invocation for the warlock, and while the shapeshifting and ice fog invocations are good, the warlock list is better overall. While the laser doesn't deal damage on a miss unless you take a blast shape, it's also more likely to hit vs. touch. The magic item abilities make up for the skill points. It's a wash.

I'm going with a d6 a level for baseline competence, a lot of debate has gone on in these forms about how evocation is terrible school of magic, and that people shouldn't use DD spells unless they get metamagiced up in damage

I think competence in skills needs full ranks in things like stealth and senses.

Evocation is not a terrible school of magic. It's one of the most efficient damage delivery systems in the game. And being a touch attack meaningfully increases effective DPR—5d6 vs. touch is likely to be better than 6d6 vs. normal AC. Also, 1d6 per level is a baseline for strikers, not supports. Bards aren't doing that much, clerics probably aren't doing that much, etc.

And other skills matter too—do social skills not count? Knowledges? There are multiple skill-related niches. Incarnates do have perception soulmelds, btw.

[Bucky]

Question for the bench:

You're playing a party of a Druid, Wizard, Cleric and Shaman. The DM has you choose a local NPC, built and optimized to PC standards, to round out the party because the module's meant for 6 players. The available NPCs are a Marshal, a Spellthief and a Fighter. Which do you take with you? Does it depend on the party level?

[Rhyltran]

Question for the bench:

You're playing a party of a Druid, Wizard, Cleric and Shaman. The DM has you choose a local NPC, built and optimized to PC standards, to round out the party because the module's meant for 6 players. The available NPCs are a Marshal, a Spellthief and a Fighter. Which do you take with you? Does it depend on the party level?

I personally think the wizard, cleric, druid, and shaman will do fine but I would go with spell thief. Doesn't really matter.

[Cygnia]

Question for the bench:

You're playing a party of a Druid, Wizard, Cleric and Shaman. The DM has you choose a local NPC, built and optimized to PC standards, to round out the party because the module's meant for 6 players. The available NPCs are a Marshal, a Spellthief and a Fighter. Which do you take with you? Does it depend on the party level?

How are the PCs specc'ed?