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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Akennedy's Avatar

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    Default Dipping classes?

    Hey playgrounders, I have a question of sorts that I thought you'd all be able to help me out with. I want to make a complied list of all classes that are worth dipping in and then see if there is a way to smash em all together to make a workable class. Any thoughts? Ideas? Just post em, and I will be Happy. PrC's count as well.

    Here's what I have so far:
    Fighter 2
    Totemist 2
    Binder --
    Exotic Weapon Master 1
    Lion Totem Barbarian 1
    Paladin 2
    Monk 2
    Marshal 1
    Factotum
    Pious Templar 1
    Spellsword 1
    Swashbuckler 3
    Warlock 1-4
    Psy. Warrior 2
    Ranger 2
    Rogue 2
    Hexblade 3
    Ur Priest (to be mystic thurge'd)
    Last edited by Akennedy; 2007-10-20 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Additional dipping classes

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zincorium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Barbarian, lion totem or otherwise.

    Exotic weapon master (I'm not sure who exactly takes more than one level of this anyway)

    Pale master (two levels, for component-less necromancy)
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Hmm.

    paladin 2, for divine grace
    monk 2, for three good saves and two bonus feats
    sorcerer 1 or 2, for will save and truestrike
    warlock 4, for taking 10 on use magic device, and least invocations.

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    Ceres's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Shadowdancer 1 for Hide in Plain Sight?
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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Monk 2 or Barbarian 1
    Fighter 2
    PsyWar 2
    Sorcerer 1
    Paladin 2
    Rogue 2
    Ranger 2

    Although I built a character plan based on sneak attack and sudden strike dice. Ended at 11th level with 10 dice, 8 sneak and 2 sudden.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    2 Rogue, 3 Hexblade

    Evasion AND Mettle, woot woot.

    EDIT: Typo
    Last edited by Xefas; 2007-10-17 at 06:27 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    If you're still playing 3.0, bard - since just about all of his abilities hinge on skill ranks, rather than bard levels.

    Also, many presclasses, such as the mindbender.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    If you're a wizard, Geometer is a very valid dip-PrC to get the cheap scribing thingy.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Divine Oracle for an evasion + ability (2 levels)
    UR-Priest to be mystic thurged (1 level)
    Sublime chord for the same reason (1 level)
    Sacred Excorcist for turn undead (for archivist or other classes who want DMM cheese) (1 level

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Swashbuckler 3 nets you Insightful Strike (Int to damage with light weapons any weapon with which you can use Weapon Finesse), which is good for a lot of builds.

    EDIT: Oops, my mistake. Thanks for catching that, Hario.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2007-10-17 at 07:37 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtg0922 View Post
    Swashbuckler 3 nets you Insightful Strike (Int to damage with light weapons), which is good for a lot of builds.
    Actually any weapon you can apply weapon finesse too which includes elven courtblades, rapiers, or even spiked chains.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Whether or not a particular class is worth dipping into depends on what you're going for, and what your "base" class is. If you're a Rogue, for example, a one-level dip in just about anything - yes, Samurai included - will lead to a more powerful character at 20th level than a Rogue 20. But if you're a full caster, a one-level dip in just about anything might not be worth it.

    But that doesn't sound like what you're going for.

    Gotta have Artificer in there.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Spellsword 1

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Pieus Templar 1 for Mettle
    Holy Liberator 3 gives immunity to charm and compusion effects
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Totemist 2 for natural attacks
    Binder 1 for diplomacy cheese, or Binder 3 for dex-based melee (w/ Imp. Binding and Paimon)
    Fighter 2 for bonus feats and full BAB (though I like Psy War better)
    Sacred Exorcist 1 for Turn Undead (for Archivists in particular)
    Druidic Avenger 1 for Rage
    Mindbender 1 for Telepathy

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Runesmith 1 for casting any arcane spell in any armor with no spell failure and no level adjustment... dwarves only, though.

    (Also, it's pretty much across the board Just Better Than Wizard - I'll trade a limited-list feat every five levels for better HD, better saves, and a useful class feature every other level any day - so if you can qualify, you might as well go all five levels. They did pretty much front-load the capstone ability, though.)

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Whether or not a particular class is worth dipping into depends on what you're going for, and what your "base" class is. If you're a Rogue, for example, a one-level dip in just about anything - yes, Samurai included - will lead to a more powerful character at 20th level than a Rogue 20. But if you're a full caster, a one-level dip in just about anything might not be worth it.

    But that doesn't sound like what you're going for.

    Gotta have Artificer in there.
    If you're referring to the lack of a capstone ability, I disagree. Lack of capstone still lets you at least up your skill points in all of your important skills. Samurai, on the other hand, gives you a bonus to your Fort save, two extra HP, and EWP: Bastard Sword. Woot. None of these are anywhere near as important as skill points for a rogue.

    For the OP: At mid to high levels, dips in Sublime Way classes can be worthwhile, since you can get higher level maneuvers than a standard level one ToB character.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Campbell View Post
    Runesmith 1 for casting any arcane spell in any armor with no spell failure and no level adjustment... dwarves only, though.

    (Also, it's pretty much across the board Just Better Than Wizard - I'll trade a limited-list feat every five levels for better HD, better saves, and a useful class feature every other level any day - so if you can qualify, you might as well go all five levels. They did pretty much front-load the capstone ability, though.)
    Problem being the pre-reqs are pretty crappy since if you aren't a duskblade it costs at least two feats for the armor prof.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelik View Post
    Problem being the pre-reqs are pretty crappy since if you aren't a duskblade it costs at least two feats for the armor prof.
    So you take it after the two-level dip in Fighter (or any other heavy-armor class), which gives you the armor proficiency requirement for free. (This is basically what I did, though I wasn't thinking of it quite that way at the time.)

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Campbell View Post
    So you take it after the two-level dip in Fighter (or any other heavy-armor class), which gives you the armor proficiency requirement for free. (This is basically what I did, though I wasn't thinking of it quite that way at the time.)
    Casting in armor... at the cost of two caster levels.

    WOO WOOOOOOOO.

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucrose View Post
    If you're referring to the lack of a capstone ability, I disagree. Lack of capstone still lets you at least up your skill points in all of your important skills. Samurai, on the other hand, gives you a bonus to your Fort save, two extra HP, and EWP: Bastard Sword. Woot. None of these are anywhere near as important as skill points for a rogue.
    It also gives you proficiency in all martial weapons, medium armor, and heavy armor; all of which would be extremely useful to any rogue. I'd say it's certainly worth six skillpoints. Fighter would obviously be a better choice for all of that stuff, as it also gives shield proficiency and a choice about which feat you take. But I think the point stands that Rogue19/Samurai1 is better than Rogue20.

    (Yes, the lack of a Rogue capstone is that bad. You have to dredge the NPC classes to find a one-level dip that's less useful than the 20th Rogue level)

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    For some characters (i.e., those that can qualify simply by nature of being shapechangers, such shifters and changelings), a 1 to 3-level dip in Warshaper (CW) is pretty popular. It gives you immunity to stunning and crits and unlimited natural weapons at 1st level, +4 to Str and Con at 2nd level, and extra reach (at 3rd level).

    Of course, that's three out of five total levels, so I'm not sure that's really a "dip," but it's still pretty popular...
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    i go with rogue as a dip call me crazy 8 skill points, sneak attack, ref, evasion what else do u need
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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    How about Dread Necromancer 1 with the tomb touched soul feat you can heal yourself 1d6 a round with your negative energy touch.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    It also gives you proficiency in all martial weapons, medium armor, and heavy armor; all of which would be extremely useful to any rogue. I'd say it's certainly worth six skillpoints. Fighter would obviously be a better choice for all of that stuff, as it also gives shield proficiency and a choice about which feat you take. But I think the point stands that Rogue19/Samurai1 is better than Rogue20.

    (Yes, the lack of a Rogue capstone is that bad. You have to dredge the NPC classes to find a one-level dip that's less useful than the 20th Rogue level)
    I would add that EWP: Bastard Sword for free would be pretty nice if you wanted to do a TWF rogue with a bastard sword. The point is, Rogue 20 doesn't get very much more than Rogue 19 (just +1 reflex, +1 BAB, good skill points and moderate HD), so you might as well take some other class instead.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Changeling Rogue for 10 SPs a level as a skill monkey. (Limits PC races).

    Factotum - 1 all skills are class skills which is especially nice with Adaptive Learning and Martial weapon proficiency. Nice for pursuing PRCs particularly the Eldritch Knight PRC.

    Monk - 2 for HP, Saves, Monk abilities and capstone Evasion.

    Slayer for psions.

    MotAO -1 to 7 or GWoW 2 + for extra versatility with the Spell Pool.

    Spellsinger for Bardic Music and casting Enchantment spells. Really nice for a sorcerer or for qualifying for Sublime Chord.

    Ultimate Magus for fueling Meta casting and two or more spellcasting classes depending on the build.

    Nar Demon Binder.

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    Already mentioned Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord for same reasons.
    Last edited by CASTLEMIKE; 2007-10-17 at 04:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Rogue at a high level to get UMD on your skill list and simply drop all your skill points from that level into it can add much versatility to a character, the other advantages aren't half bad either. If you want to make a heavily multiclassed character it's going to be a defensive build. Your BAB will never get very good unless you use the alternate BAB rules where you add up all your 3/4 and 1/2 BAB classes and treat them as one class for purposes of BAB. Example: 2 levels in monk and 2 levels in rogue would grant you a +3 bab, and two levels in both psion and wizard would grant you two points of BAB. This option can make heavily multiclassed characters more viable as offensive characters.

    A heavily multiclassed build is going to have simply ridicoulous saves, especially if you go for both Paladin and monk. With those ridicoulous saves, it only makes sense to pick up both Mettle and Evasion (and improved evasion if you can figure out how to do it).

    You could also go the only taking full BAB classes route. For which I'd dip Paladin (for saves, as full BAB classes tend to suck their none fort saves), fighter (for two feats, heavy armor, and tower shields), Barbarian or Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for rage or pounce (and increased movement), ranger for tracking, the free ranged or TWF feat, possibly endurance if your looking at one or more PrC's that require it, and the skill points (because max ranks are based on level, take ranger later so you can sink your skill points heavily into the skills you need, rather then being forced to spread). I would definitely take the Full BAB version into a PrC. You should try and find PrC's with similar pre-reqs, and abilities that complement each other if you want to continue the dipping.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowdemon_lord View Post
    two levels in both psion and wizard would grant you two points of BAB.
    Even though that's what you'd have anyway. So it doesn't change anything in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowdemon_lord View Post
    rage or pounce (and increased movement)
    You got the and/or part confused here.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowdemon_lord View Post
    and the skill points (because max ranks are based on level, take ranger later so you can sink your skill points heavily into the skills you need, rather then being forced to spread)
    Except that if you have an Int Mod of +2 (Highly generous given what we are talking about) and you spread those points into only two stats then you are losing out. Skill Monkey levels go at level one.
    Last edited by Kaelik; 2007-10-17 at 05:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    Ninja of the Crescent Moon 10. That class rocks.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Dipping classes?

    I'll echo the Binder. If you take the improved binding feat, you get nearly unparalleled versatility that no other one level dip can give.

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